Volume 48

1 IN THE CRIMINAL DISTRICT COURT NO. 3
2 DALLAS COUNTY, TEXAS
3
4
5
6 THE STATE OF TEXAS } NO. F-96-39973-J
7 VS: } & A-96-253
8 DARLIE LYNN ROUTIER } Kerr Co. Number
9
10
11
12
13 REPORTERS RECORD
14 JURY TRIAL
15 VOL. 48 OF 53 VOLS.
16 February 3, 1997
17 Monday
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5376

1 C A P T I O N
2
3
4 BE IT REMEMBERED THAT, on Monday, the 3rd day of
5 February, 1997, in the Criminal District Court Number 3
6 of Dallas County, Texas, the above-styled cause came on
7 for a jury trial before the Hon. Mark Tolle, Judge of the
8 Criminal District Court No. 3, of Dallas County, Texas,
9 with a jury, and the proceedings were held, in open
10 court, in the City of Kerrville, Kerr County Courthouse,
11 Kerr County, Texas, and the proceedings were had as
12 follows:
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
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1
2 A P P E A R A N C E S
3
4
5 HON. JOHN VANCE
6 Criminal District Attorney
7 Dallas County, Texas
8
9 BY: HON. GREG DAVIS
10 Assistant District Attorney
11 Dallas County, Texas
12
13 AND:
14 HON. TOBY SHOOK
15 Assistant District Attorney
16 Dallas County, Texas
17
18 AND:
19 HON. SHERRI WALLACE
20 Assistant District Attorney
21 Dallas County, Texas
22
23 APPEARING FOR THE STATE OF TEXAS
24
25
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
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1 ADDITIONAL APPEARANCES:
2
3 HON. DOUGLAS D. MULDER
4 Attorney at Law
5 2650 Maxus Energy Tower
6 717 N. Harwood
7 Dallas, TX 75201
8
9 AND: HON. CURTIS GLOVER
10 Attorney at Law
11 2650 Maxus Energy Tower
12 717 N. Harwood
13 Dallas, TX 75201
14
15 AND: HON. RICHARD C. MOSTY
16 Attorney at Law
17 Wallace, Mosty, Machann, Jackson & Williams
18 820 Main Street, Suite 200
19 Kerrville, TX 78028
20
21 AND: HON. S. PRESTON DOUGLASS, JR.
22 Attorney at Law
23 Wallace, Mosty, Machann, Jackson & Williams
24 820 Main Street, Suite 200
25 Kerrville, TX 78028
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1
2 AND: HON. JOHN HAGLER
3 Attorney at Law
4 901 Main Street, Suite 3601
5 Dallas, TX 75202
6 ALL ATTORNEYS REPRESENTING THE
7 DEFENDANT: DARLIE ROUTIER
8 MR. HAGLER HANDLING THE APPEAL
9 AND:
10 HON. ALBERT D. PATILLO, III
11 Attorney at Law
12 820 Main Street, Suite 211
13 Kerrville, TX 78028
14 APPEARING FOR: Witness-
15 Detective Jimmy Patterson
16 only on one date in trial
17 AND:
18 HON. STEVEN J. PICKELL
19 Attorney at Law
20 620 Earl Garrett Street
21 Kerrville, TX 78028
22 APPEARING FOR: Witness
23 Officer Chris Frosch
24 only on one date in trial
25
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
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1 P R O C E E D I N G S
2
3 February 3rd, 1997
4 Monday
5 9:00 a.m.
6
7 (Whereupon, the following
8 proceedings were held in
9 open court, in the presence
10 and hearing of the
11 defendant, being
12 represented by her attorneys
13 and the representatives of
14 the State of Texas, but
15 outside the presence of the
16 jury, as follows:)
17
18 THE COURT: All right. Let the record
19 reflect that these proceedings are being held outside the
20 presence of the jury.
21 These motions, the defense motions to
22 exclude evidence of unadjudicated extraneous offenses
23 during the punishment phase was denied.
24 MR. S. PRESTON DOUGLASS: Also, your
25 Honor, there is a previous motion filed to present
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1 evidence of a parole eligibility. It is my understanding
2 that that motion has been previously denied.
3 THE COURT: Okay. Parole eligibility,
4 that is denied. The one about they must consider
5 mitigating offenses was granted, and the Charge is
6 written that way. There is some motion in there about --
7 what was that motion in limine?
8 MR. S. PRESTON DOUGLASS: There was a
9 motion in limine regarding the State of Texas referring
10 to, either indirectly or directly, as to whether the
11 defendant would ever be eligible for parole.
12 Our position was, your Honor, that the
13 State should not be allowed to allude, in any fashion or
14 imply, that the defendant would be eligible for parole.
15 THE COURT: Well, that was denied too.
16 That motion was denied. And, I think the way the Charge
17 is written takes care of that.
18 MR. S. PRESTON DOUGLASS: The last one
19 was to declare 37.071, Section 2, unconstitutional in
20 that it does not allocate a burden of proof with respect
21 to that question.
22 THE COURT: That was denied. I'll let
23 that go to the Supreme Court.
24 MR. S. PRESTON DOUGLASS: There was a
25 previous motion regarding parties charge, but that is not
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1 going to be presented.
2 THE COURT: That is moot.
3 MR. S. PRESTON DOUGLASS: And that
4 left us with the motion to declare 37.071, Section 2,
5 E and F, as unconstitutional, because it does not require
6 that the jurors consider mitigation.
7 THE COURT: That was denied. And, I
8 think the Charge clearly -- makes it very clear that the
9 jurors will be considering mitigation.
10 MR. S. PRESTON DOUGLASS: Then there
11 was a motion to declare Texas capital sentencing scheme
12 unconstitutional, and the motion refers to the imposition
13 of the death penalty. There were numerous reasons,
14 mainly related to Penry and the -- _____
15 THE COURT: That was denied.
16 MR. S. PRESTON DOUGLASS: And the last
17 I have is four -- I believe it's four requested
18 punishment charges, which I have given Ruth and I can get
19 copies of them.
20 THE COURT: Sure. All right. Are
21 both sides ready?
22 MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY: Yes, sir.
23 MR. GREG DAVIS: Yes, sir.
24 THE COURT: All right. Bring the jury
25 in, please.
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1 (Whereupon, the jury
2 Was returned to the
3 Courtroom, and the
4 Proceedings were
5 Resumed on the record,
6 In open court, in the
7 Presence and hearing
8 Of the defendant,
9 As follows:)
10
11 THE COURT: Good morning, ladies and
12 gentlemen.
13 Let the record reflect that all
14 parties in the trial are present, and the jury is seated.
15 Is the State ready to go forward?
16 MR. GREG DAVIS: The State is ready,
17 your Honor.
18 THE COURT: All right. Is the defense
19 ready, Mr. Mulder?
20 MR. DOUGLAS MULDER: Yes, sir.
21 THE COURT: All right. If you will
22 call your first witness, please.
23 MR. GREG DAVIS: I will call Allison
24 Hennessey.
25 THE COURT: Ms. Hennessey, if you will
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1 raise your right hand, please.
2
3 (Whereupon, the witness
4 Was duly sworn by the
5 Court, to speak the truth,
6 The whole truth and
7 Nothing but the truth,
8 After which, the
9 Proceedings were
10 Resumed as follows:)
11
12 THE COURT: Do you solemnly swear or
13 affirm, that the testimony you are about to give, will be
14 the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so
15 help you God?
16 THE WITNESS: I do.
17 THE COURT: Just have a seat right
18 here, please. Is this the first time you have testified?
19 THE WITNESS: Yes.
20 THE COURT: Okay. Here's what you do.
21 Speak right into this microphone very loudly until you
22 hear your voice echo.
23 You want to make sure that the
24 gentleman down there in the corner can hear you. Okay?
25 And just listen to the questions. Now, they will object
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1 from time to time, and when they object, you stop. And I
2 will rule on it then, okay?
3 THE WITNESS: Yes, sir.
4 THE COURT: Go ahead. If you will
5 state your name and spell your name for the court
6 reporter, please.
7 THE WITNESS: Allison Hennessey,
8 A-L-L-I-S-O-N, H-E-N-N-E-S-S-E-Y.
9
10
11 Whereupon,
12
13 ALLISON HENNESSEY,
14
15 was called as a witness, for the State of Texas, in the
16 Punishment Phase, having been first duly sworn by the
17 Court, to speak the truth, the whole truth, and nothing
18 but the truth, was examined and testified in open court,
19 as follows:
20
21 DIRECT EXAMINATION
22
23 BY MR. GREG DAVIS:
24 Q. Allison, how old are you?
25 A. 18.
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1 Q. All right. Are you in high school at
2 this time?
3 A. I home school.
4 Q. Okay. And, what grade would you be
5 in?
6 A. Senior.
7 Q. Do you live in Rowlett at this time?
8 A. I do.
9 Q. Do you live with your mother?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. Allison, I want to ask you whether or
12 not you know the individual seated over here in the red
13 and white dress?
14 A. I do.
15 Q. Do you know her to be Darlie Lynn
16 Routier?
17 A. I do.
18
19 MR. GREG DAVIS: Your Honor, may the
20 record please reflect that this witness is identifying
21 the defendant in open court.
22 THE COURT: Yes, sir.
23
24 BY MR. GREG DAVIS:
25 Q. Allison, how long have you known the
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
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1 defendant?
2 A. Since 1994, I believe is when I met
3 her.
4 Q. Okay. How did you meet the defendant?
5 Did you meet her through one of your friends?
6 A. Yes, Renee Stanley. She is my best
7 friend, and I met her through her.
8 Q. Okay. And, Renee Stanley, was that a
9 friend in the neighborhood that you met?
10 A. Um-hum. (Witness nodding head
11 affirmatively.)
12 Q. When you met the defendant, was Renee
13 Stanley doing anything for the defendant?
14 A. She was the babysitter.
15 Q. And, how often would Renee Stanley
16 babysit for the defendant, if you know?
17 A. It was almost every weekend.
18 Q. Okay. Did you know why Renee was
19 babysitting every weekend; what the defendant was doing
20 that required a babysitter every weekend?
21 A. She would go out occasionally, but
22 mainly, I was told it was for auctions that she would go
23 to.
24 Q. What sort of auctions?
25 A. Antique auctions.
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1
2 MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY: Your Honor, we
3 object to what she was told.
4 THE COURT: Sustained.
5
6 BY MR. GREG DAVIS:
7 Q. And, during the time that you knew the
8 defendant, were there occasions when you would go over to
9 her house also?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. And, were there occasions when both
12 Renee Stanley and the defendant would be present at the
13 house when you were over there?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. Did you know Devon and Damon Routier?
16 A. Yes, I did.
17 Q. When you went over to the defendant's
18 house, and she was there, what were the boys usually
19 doing during the time periods that you were there?
20 A. They were usually playing outside.
21 Q. Okay. And would the defendant be
22 outside with them, or would she be inside with y'all?
23 A. Inside.
24 Q. And, generally, what was she doing
25 while her two sons were outside playing?
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1 A. Speaking with Renee, I usually was
2 quiet.
3 Q. Okay. And, when you say that the boys
4 were outside, can you give us an idea of the types of
5 things that you saw them doing when they were outside?
6 A. Running up the street, playing on the
7 fountain, playing with kids that lived in the
8 neighborhood.
9 Q. You say that they were climbing on the
10 fountain. Are you talking about the fountain in the
11 front yard?
12 A. Um-hum. (Witness nodding head
13 affirmatively.)
14
15 THE COURT: Ma'am, can you say yes or
16 no? We can't take down nods.
17 THE WITNESS: Yes, sir.
18
19 BY MR. GREG DAVIS:
20 Q. What were they doing, exactly?
21 A. Just climbing or running around
22 outside.
23 Q. Okay. Now, this would have been back
24 in what, 1994?
25 A. Um-hum. (Witness nodding head
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5390

1 affirmatively.)
2 Q. You need to say yes or no for the
3 court reporter, please.

4 A. Yes.
5 Q. Okay. And, how old were Devon and
6 Damon then when they were outside on their own?
7 A. Well, I believe three and probably
8 five.
9 Q. Okay. Now, Allison, let me ask you
10 whether or not you were ever over at the defendant's
11 house when Renee Stanley was babysitting for the
12 defendant?
13 A. Yes, almost every time.
14 Q. And, was there ever an occasion where
15 you saw the defendant go out and buy something for Renee?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. Can you tell us what that was?
18 A. Cigarettes.
19 Q. How old was Renee at the time?
20 A. Sixteen.
21 Q. And, exactly what happened when that
22 occurred? Just tell us how that came up, what you
23 remember happening.
24 A. About the cigarettes?
25 Q. Yes.
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1 A. That is where she got them from. That
2 is where she told me, and I have seen her give them to
3 her.
4
5 MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY: Object to what
6 someone told her.
7 THE COURT: Sustained. Ma'am, just
8 state precisely what you know yourself, not what somebody
9 else says to you.
10 Okay. Mr. Davis, rephrase your
11 question.
12 MR. GREG DAVIS: Yes, sir.
13
14 BY MR. GREG DAVIS:
15 Q. Did you ever see the defendant give
16 cigarettes to Renee?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. And at the time, how old was Renee?
19 A. Sixteen.
20 Q. Was there ever any occasion where you
21 saw the defendant give alcohol to Renee?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. Can you tell us about that, what you
24 saw?
25 A. She asked Darlie if she could have a
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
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1 Zima that was in the refrigerator, and Darlie said that
2 she could, and she got one and drank it.
3 Q. Were there other occasions when you
4 saw Renee drinking over there in the house when the
5 defendant wasn't there?
6 A. Yes, almost every time she babysat.
7 Q. Almost every time she babysat?
8 A. Um-hum. (Witness nodding head
9 affirmatively.)
10
11 THE COURT: Is that a yes, ma'am?
12 THE WITNESS: Yes.
13 THE COURT: Thank you.
14
15 BY MR. GREG DAVIS:
16 Q. At the time that the defendant gave or
17 allowed Renee to drink the Zima there in her house, how
18 old was Renee?
19 A. Sixteen.
20 Q. Allison, was there ever any occasion
21 when you saw the defendant give Renee marijuana inside
22 that house?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. Could you please tell us what you saw
25 that day?
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5393

1 A. We went over to her house and we were
2 talking to Darlie and she removed it from the cabinet
3 above her washer and dryer and gave it to her in a
4 ziplock bag in the entry.
5 Q. Okay. So, she got it from the utility
6 room; is that right?
7 A. Um-hum. (Witness nodding head
8 affirmatively.)
9 Q. That is a yes again?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. Okay. And, where was it that she
12 actually gave her the baggie of marijuana?
13 A. It was near the stairs and the
14 bathroom in the front of the house.
15 Q. Near the entry area?
16 A. Um-hum. (Witness nodding head
17 affirmatively.)
18
19 THE COURT: Is that a yes?
20 THE WITNESS: Yes.
21 THE COURT: Please say yes or no,
22 ma'am. Ms. Halsey can't take down uh-hum or unh-uhs.
23 THE WITNESS: Okay.
24
25 BY MR. GREG DAVIS:
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5394

1 Q. And, at the time that she gave the
2 marijuana to Renee, how old was Renee Stanley?
3 A. Sixteen.
4 Q. Did you ever have any conversations
5 with the defendant about your feelings about what was
6 happening inside that house with Renee?
7 A. Yes, I did.
8 Q. Can you tell us what that conversation
9 was and how it went?
10 A. I did not agree that she was an adult
11 giving my best friend things that I don't agree with
12 people doing, drugs and alcohol and cigarettes,
13 especially when she wasn't an adult.
14 Q. What did the defendant say, if
15 anything?
16 A. Not really anything. She just laughed
17 it off.
18 Q. Did you continue going over to the
19 defendant's house after that conversation?
20 A. Yes, we had this conversation a lot.
21 Q. Okay. Was there a time when you
22 finally decided that you couldn't go over there any more?
23 A. Yes, I did.
24 Q. Okay.
25
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5395

1 MR. GREG DAVIS: I'll pass the
2 witness.
3
4 CROSS EXAMINATION
5
6 BY MR. RICHARD MOSTY:
7 Q. Ms. Hennessey, you are now 18?
8 A. Yes, I am.
9 Q. When did you turn 18?
10 A. June 18th.
11 Q. All right. And, where do you live?
12 A. I live in Rowlett.
13 Q. Where, in relationship to Eagle Drive?
14 A. I live in the same neighborhood, on
15 Luna Drive.
16 Q. On Luna Drive? How far away is that?
17 A. About a block.
18 Q. And you had, I guess, walked down?
19 A. Yes, or drive.
20 Q. Okay. And do you still live there?
21 A. No.
22 Q. Who did you live with?
23 A. My mother.
24 Q. And anyone else?
25 A. My stepfather and my sister and
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1 brother.
2 Q. Your stepfather is Glenn Mize, isn't
3 it?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. And you know that his name -- you know
6 he came down here and testified, didn't he? Or came down
7 here and appeared and stood in Court?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. And, was that Glenn Mize's house that
10 you lived in?
11 A. His and my mother's.
12 Q. Okay. And, how long did y'all live in
13 that house?
14 A. Well --
15 Q. How long did you live there with Mize?
16 Was it anybody else other than Mize, and your mother and
17 you?
18 A. My brother and sister.
19 Q. How old are they?
20 A. Five and fifteen.
21 Q. Five and fifteen?
22 A. Um-hum. (Witness nodding head
23 affirmatively.)
24
25 THE COURT: Is that a yes, ma'am,
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
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1 please?
2 THE WITNESS: Yes.
3
4 BY MR. RICHARD MOSTY:
5 Q. And, how long did you live on Luna
6 Drive about a block down?
7 A. Three years.
8 Q. What years?
9 A. From '92 to '94.
10 Q. From '92 to '94?
11 A. No, '95.
12 Q. '95?
13 A. Um-hum. (Witness nodding head
14 affirmatively.) Yes.
15 Q. When did you move away?
16 A. Last May.
17 Q. Last May?
18 A. Um-hum. (Witness nodding head
19 affirmatively.) Yes.
20 Q. May of '96 or May of '95?
21 A. May of '96.
22 Q. Okay. So, how long do you think you
23 lived on Luna Drive?
24 A. About three years or a little more.
25 Q. Okay. So would we say from '93 to
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1 '96?
2 A. We lived in an apartment before that,
3 I don't remember.
4 Q. Well, how long were your mother and
5 Glenn Mize married?
6 A. Seven years.
7 Q. That broke up because they couldn't
8 get along back in May? Is that why you all moved out?
9 A. No, they had problems their entire
10 marriage.
11 Q. Had problems their entire marriage?
12 Violent problems?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. Glenn Mize beat her?
15
16 MR. GREG DAVIS: I'm going to object
17 to this as not being relevant.
18 THE COURT: Overruled. I'll let it
19 in. Go ahead.
20
21 BY MR. RICHARD MOSTY:
22 Q. Did Glenn Mize beat your mother?
23 A. She has been hit by Glenn.
24 Q. Okay. And that is what particularly
25 broke things up finally in May of '96?
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1 A. Yes, among other problems.
2 Q. Now, were you living with them when
3 you moved in the house on Luna Drive?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. So, if you moved out in May of '96,
6 and you were there about three years, you must have moved
7 in sometime in '93. And I understand you are not going
8 to be exact.
9 A. Yeah.
10 Q. Do you really recall?
11 A. It was '92 or '93.
12 Q. Okay. What grade were you in?
13 A. I was going into the 9th grade when we
14 moved, so I guess it was about four years.
15 Q. When did you meet Renee Stanley?
16 A. A couple of weeks after I moved into
17 the house.
18 Q. Okay. And you said that you quit
19 going, I guess, to the Routier residence because you were
20 offended by what you saw?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. When did you quit going?
23 A. In February of '95 I stopped being
24 friends with Renee, so it was about January.
25 Q. Okay. January of 1995?
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5400

1 A. Yes.
2 Q. How many times do you think you were
3 in the Routier house?
4 A. There was too many times to count. I
5 have been in there about every weekend that she babysat.
6 Q. Okay. And these things happened every
7 weekend?
8 A. Which things?
9 Q. All of these things that you have
10 described.
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. Every time the boys were out playing
13 in the yard that you went down there?
14 A. Almost every time that I was there
15 Renee would drink or smoke cigarettes.
16 Q. Yeah. She would just drink every
17 time. And every time the boys played in the fountain
18 that you were down there?
19 A. Not every time, but several times.
20 Q. Okay. They were playing with other
21 neighborhood kids?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. And, there were other neighborhood
24 kids running and playing in their yard?
25 A. Um-hum. (Witness nodding head
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5401

1 affirmatively.) Yes.
2 Q. Coming in and out of the house? A lot
3 of neighborhood kids coming through there?
4 A. Yes, a lot of kids.
5 Q. And they were Devon and Damon's age,
6 more or less? Their friends?
7 A. Probably a little older.
8 Q. Okay. Now, when did this incident
9 about the cigarettes happen? That happened every time
10 too?
11 A. That happened several times when I
12 wasn't there.
13 Q. Well, tell me how you know what
14 happened when you weren't there?
15 A. My best friend told me. I was present
16 at times that they were given to her.
17 Q. Cigarettes?
18 A. Um-hum. (Witness nodding head
19 affirmatively.)
20 Q. What kind were they?
21 A. Marlboro.
22 Q. Marlboro?
23 A. Lights or reds.
24 Q. Well, do you remember?
25 A. She smoked both.
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1 Q. And every time Darlie went and bought
2 cigarettes for her? That is what you are telling this
3 jury?
4 A. That is where Darlie (sic) was getting
5 them from. I mean, Renee.
6 Q. Every time she went down there she
7 bought cigarettes for her?
8 A. Not every time. She didn't smoke all
9 the time --
10 Q. Do you smoke?
11 A. No.
12 Q. Okay. And, is it your testimony that
13 you never saw Darlie playing with those kids?
14 A. Not really.
15 Q. Never saw it?
16 A. No.
17 Q. Never saw her paying attention to
18 them?
19 A. Not really.
20 Q. Whenever she was there, she paid no
21 attention whatsoever to those children?
22 A. Not really. She was speaking with
23 Renee.
24 Q. And you know that, you remember that,
25 don't you?
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5403

1 A. Yes.
2 Q. How did you happen to -- how did the
3 district attorney's office happen to find you?
4 A. I'm not sure.
5 Q. Who came to see you? Mr. Bosillo?
6 A. No, there was a police officer.
7 Q. In a uniform?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. What's his name?
10 A. Grant Jack.
11 Q. Grant Jack. Did you give him a
12 written statement?
13 A. No.
14 Q. You never wrote out anything?
15 A. No.
16 Q. When did you talk to this Grant Jack?
17 A. I didn't really speak with him. I
18 spoke with Anita and Mike.
19 Q. Pardon?
20 A. I spoke with Anita and Mike.
21 Q. Who are Anita and Mike?
22 A. Them two in the audience.
23 Q. Well, I thought you told me that you
24 spoke with Grant Jack?
25 A. That is who told me to come to the
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5404

1 meeting.
2 Q. When did you come to this meeting?
3 A. Probably in September or August.
4 Q. Where was the meeting?
5 A. In the Rowlett Police Department.
6 Q. Who all was there?
7 A. Me and my mother, Lieutenant Grant
8 Jack and Anita and Mike.
9 Q. Who else?
10 A. My little brother was there.
11 Q. Did they say, "Tell me everything you
12 know about Darlie Routier"?
13 A. No. They just asked me general
14 questions, how I came to know her, and I mentioned
15 situations that happened.
16 Q. You don't like Darlie, do you?
17 A. Not especially.
18 Q. And that has been going on a long
19 time?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. You know also that you -- your mother
22 and Darlie had an argument, too, don't you, had words?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. Because Darlie told --
25
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5405

1 MR. GREG DAVIS: I'm going to object
2 to that as being hearsay, your Honor.
3 THE COURT: Sustained.
4 MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY: She knows.
5 MR. GREG DAVIS: That is hearsay.
6 THE COURT: Sustained. Let's rephrase
7 your question, or go on to the next question.
8
9 BY MR. RICHARD MOSTY:
10 Q. Well, you know that there was a
11 problem between Glenn Mize and Basia, don't you, or
12 Barbara Jovell?
13 A. There wasn't a problem.
14 Q. It was a what -- they were having a
15 relationship?
16 A. No. It was a conversation on the
17 phone.
18 Q. And that was between your mother and
19 Darlie?
20 A. This was between Glenn and Basia.
21 Q. Well, what about -- what do you know
22 about the conversation between your mother and Darlie?
23
24 MR. GREG DAVIS: I'm going to object
25 to that as being hearsay, your Honor.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5406

1 MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY: Let me develop
2 and find out what she knows.
3 THE COURT: Well, is that the
4 question?
5
6 BY MR. RICHARD MOSTY:
7 Q. You heard some conversations, didn't
8 you?
9 A. Between who?
10 Q. Your mother and Darlie?
11 A. No. She spoke once with her on the
12 phone.
13 Q. You heard your mother?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. And you heard your mother have words?
16 A. No, there was not an argument.
17
18 MR. GREG DAVIS: I'll object to this
19 again, as being hearsay, as to what her mother said.
20 THE COURT: Sustained.
21
22 BY MR. RICHARD MOSTY:
23 Q. When did all of that happen? Don't go
24 into what happened, but when did the problem happen?
25 A. About December or January, December of
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5407

1 '94 or January of '95.
2 Q. Okay. And, that is about the time
3 that you decided you wouldn't be going down to the
4 Routier's anymore?
5 A. I decided that in February.
6 Q. Yeah, but it's just coincidence that
7 about the time your mother and Mrs. Routier had a
8 problem, that is when you decided you wouldn't go to the
9 Routier house, that is just a coincidence?
10 A. Yes.
11
12 MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY: I'll pass the
13 witness.
14 MR. GREG DAVIS: No further questions.
15 THE COURT: All right. Ma'am, you may
16 step down.
17 Ma'am, when you're not testifying, you
18 have to remain outside the courtroom. Don't talk about
19 your testimony with anybody who has testified, in other
20 words, "don't compare it."
21 You may talk to the attorneys for
22 either side. If somebody tries to talk to you about your
23 testimony, please tell the attorney for the side who
24 called you. Okay?
25 THE WITNESS: Okay.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5408

1 THE COURT: Now, watch your step going
2 down there, please.
3 All right. Your next witness.
4 MS. SHERRI WALLACE: Call Eileen
5 Schirmer.
6 THE COURT: Eileen Schirmer. Ms.
7 Schirmer, just come on up here, please, ma'am. Will you
8 raise your right hand, please, ma'am?
9
10 (Whereupon, the witness
11 Was duly sworn by the
12 Court, to speak the truth,
13 The whole truth and
14 Nothing but the truth,
15 After which, the
16 Proceedings were
17 Resumed as follows:)
18
19 THE COURT: Do you solemnly swear or
20 affirm that the testimony you are about to give will be
21 the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so
22 help you God?
23 THE WITNESS: I do.
24 THE COURT: All right. If you will
25 have a seat right here, please.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5409

1 MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY: Your Honor, may
2 we approach?
3 THE COURT: Sure.
4
5 (Whereupon, a short
6 Discussion was held
7 Off the record, after
8 Which time the
9 Proceedings were resumed
10 As follows:)
11
12 THE COURT: All right. This is Eileen
13 Schirmer. Is this the first time have you testified?
14 THE WITNESS: Yes, sir.
15 THE COURT: All right. Speak into
16 this microphone loudly so that gentleman sitting right
17 down there can hear you.
18 Listen to each question and answer
19 just what they ask you. Say yes or no, not uh-hum or
20 unh-uh.
21 THE WITNESS: Okay.
22 THE COURT: All right. Keep your
23 voice up.
24
25
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5410

1 Whereupon,
2
3 EILEEN SCHIRMER,
4
5 was called as a witness, for the State of Texas, in the
6 Punishment Phase, having been first duly sworn by the
7 Court to speak the truth, the whole truth, and nothing
8 but the truth, testified in open court, as follows:
9
10 THE COURT: State your full name
11 please and spell it for the court reporter.
12 THE WITNESS: My name is Eileen
13 Schirmer, last name, S-C-H-I-R-M-E-R.
14 THE COURT: You are going to have to
15 get your voice up a little more so that Mr. Samford can
16 hear it there. Now, you are going to hear your voice
17 echo, and resonate. Don't drop it, keep it up. Okay?
18 THE WITNESS: My name is Eileen
19 Schirmer. First name, E-I-L-E-E-N.
20
21 DIRECT EXAMINATION
22
23 BY MS. SHERRI WALLACE:
24 Q. Ms. Schirmer, how old are you?
25 A. I'm 30 years old.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5411

1 Q. Okay. Are you married?
2 A. Yes, ma'am.
3 Q. Do you have any children?
4 A. I have two children.
5 Q. What are their ages?
6 A. I have a girl that is nine years old
7 and a boy that is six years old.
8 Q. Do you work?
9 A. Yes, I do.
10 Q. What do you do?
11 A. My husband and I are self-employed.
12 We own our own business, engineering of printed circuit
13 boards.
14 Q. What sort of business is that? Tell
15 us about that.
16 A. We do the mechanical design and the
17 actual layout of the printed circuit boards themselves.
18 Q. Is that the same kind of business that
19 the Routiers are in?
20 A. Yes, it is.
21 Q. How are y'alls' businesses different,
22 if they are?
23 A. They test -- their business would
24 actually test the printed circuit boards, and we were the
25 beginning phases of the design that actually produced the
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5412

1 schematics and the layouts and the actual drawings.
2 Q. What sort of role do you have in that
3 business, Ms. Schirmer?
4 A. I am the majority stockholder owner
5 and the executive vice-president.
6 Q. Okay. And what do you actually -- I
7 mean, you go to work, and you get your cup of coffee,
8 what do you do next?
9 A. I go to work and I work 8 to 5 every
10 day and I handle all the accounting and the credit for
11 the company.
12 Q. So, it's fair to say you do the books
13 and the finances?
14 A. Yes, I do.
15 Q. Make sure that everything is going
16 right?
17 A. Right.
18 Q. Through work, did and your husband get
19 to know Darin and Darlie Routier?
20 A. Yes, ma'am.
21 Q. Okay. And how did you come about
22 getting to know the Routiers?
23 A. My husband knew Darin Routier through
24 the business, and through conversations. My name came
25 up, and she approached me at my office, inquiring about
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5413

1 day care, the fact that I worked and had children, and
2 how they were cared for, and what day care I used.
3 Q. Okay. About when did she come and ask
4 you about day care, if you remember?
5 A. It was the latter part of '93.
6 Q. All right. Was that the first time
7 you had ever met her?
8 A. Yes, it was.
9 Q. Were you and your husband's business
10 close to Testnec, the Routiers' business?
11 A. Yes, they were very close.
12 Q. Tell the jury about how they were in
13 relation to each other.
14 A. A little more than the length of this
15 courtroom, but in separate buildings.
16 Q. So one day the defendant just came
17 over to talk to you about day care?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. How was she dressed when she came
20 over?
21 A. She -- her clothing was all green,
22 tight body suit, tight jeans with suede boots past the
23 knees, all green to match.
24 Q. Let me ask you Ms. Schirmer, what was
25 your first impression of her?
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5414

1 A. That she liked to be very glamorous,
2 that she paid a lot of attention to her looks.
3 Q. Over the course of time, did it just
4 so happen that you and your husband were also building a
5 home near their home?
6 A. That's correct.
7 Q. Okay. Were you already building it
8 before you had even met the Routiers?
9 A. We had already bought the lot before
10 we had ever met the Routiers. Yes, that was
11 coincidental.
12 Q. Okay. How close was the home you were
13 building to the home they had on Eagle Drive?
14 A. Their home is the corner home with
15 Willowbrook being the next street, and Allen Lane being
16 the second one, we're the third house from that same end.
17 Q. So about two streets over?
18 A. Two streets over.
19 Q. Because you worked in the same area
20 and you lived in the same area, did you have the
21 opportunity to see the defendant frequently?
22 A. Yes, almost every day, just either in
23 the business or casually passing through the neighborhood
24 or it could have been the actual conversation of visiting
25 one another.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5415

1 Q. How was she -- when you saw her these
2 other times, did she look different than she had the
3 first time you saw her?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. Tell the jury how she looked usually.
6 A. Usually she was without makeup,
7 shorts, baggy shirts, her hair wasn't so poofed up,
8 typically wore her jewelry but maybe not as much.
9 Q. Did she wear undergarments?
10 A. Not that I could tell.
11 Q. Okay. Did she ever wear a bra?
12 A. No.
13 Q. Okay. Through being around the
14 parents, did you have an opportunity to get to know the
15 children?
16 A. Yes, I did.
17 Q. Devon and Damon?
18 A. Um-hum. (Witness nodding head
19 affirmatively.)
20 Q. Were they about the same age as your
21 little boy?
22 A. Yes, they were very close, months
23 apart.
24 Q. Okay. And, once you all moved in the
25 neighborhood, did you see the boys even more?
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5416

1 A. Yes, a lot more.
2 Q. How often would you see the boys?
3 A. Whenever they were home the boys would
4 usually be outside, that was a good indication if they
5 were home or not.
6 Q. So if the boys were not outside,
7 pretty much the Routiers were not home; is that about
8 right?
9 A. That's right.
10 Q. Okay. Who was out there watching
11 them?
12 A. There was usually no one from that
13 family out there with the boys.
14 Q. So the times that you would see them,
15 Ms. Schirmer, were Devon and Damon ever supervised?
16 A. No, they were not supervised, not by
17 their parents.
18 Q. One time, did you and your family have
19 an invitation to join the Routiers on their boat?
20 A. Yes, we did.
21 Q. Was that in the summer of '94?
22 A. I believe it was, shortly after they
23 had purchased the boat.
24 Q. About how old were the boys at that
25 time, if you remember?
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5417

1 A. I want to say about four and five.
2 Q. How old was your son in '94?
3 A. He was four years old.
4 Q. So he was the age of the little one,
5 of Damon?
6 A. Yes, of Damon.
7 Q. Did your son know how to swim?
8 A. No.
9 Q. Were you concerned about him going out
10 on the boat and to the lake?
11 A. Yes, even around the docks.
12 Q. Did you take any precautions because
13 he didn't know how to swim?
14 A. Yes, we all did. We made sure that
15 Darin had enough life jackets on the boat for everybody
16 who was going out on the boat.
17 Q. Did you ask your son to wear his or
18 did you just make sure it was there?
19 A. We actually -- everyone in my family
20 put the life jackets on.
21 Q. Was that when you were in the boat or
22 on land or where?
23 A. When we actually got into the boat.
24 Q. Okay. Now, what about the Routier
25 boys, Devon and Damon? Do you know whether or not they
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5418

1 knew how to swim?
2 A. I was told that they did not know how
3 to swim as well.
4 Q. Who told you that, their mom?
5 A. Darlie, yes.
6 Q. Okay. And, did they have any life
7 jackets on?
8 A. No.
9 Q. Did you -- did that concern you?
10 A. Yes, it did. Especially around the
11 docks, because they were free to roam the docks. Whereas
12 I made my children stay hand in hand with my husband and
13 I.
14 Q. What did your little boy have to say
15 about that?
16
17 MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY: I'll object.
18 That is hearsay.
19 THE COURT: Sustained.
20
21 BY MS. SHERRI WALLACE:
22 Q. Did you and your son have a
23 conversation about that?
24 A. Yes, he felt like --
25
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5419

1 MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY: Objection.
2 THE COURT: Sustained. Let's rephrase
3 the question or move on to a new one, please.
4
5 BY MS. SHERRI WALLACE:
6 Q. And after the conversation, did you
7 still make him stay with you with the life jacket on?
8 A. Yes, I did. I made him wear his life
9 jacket.
10 Q. Was there a concern in your
11 neighborhood about the Routier boys running wild?
12
13 MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY: Objection, that
14 is hearsay. That is the most speculative hearsay.
15 THE COURT: I'll sustain the
16 objection.
17
18 BY MS. SHERRI WALLACE:
19 Q. Ms. Schirmer, did you have a concern
20 about the Routier boys running wild in the neighborhood?
21 A. Yes, I did, especially in and around
22 the cars parked on that corner.
23 Q. Did you do anything about that?
24 A. Yes, I had brought it to Darin and
25 Darlie's attention, at times that when their cars were
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5420

1 parked out there, if the boys were riding their bikes or
2 standing behind them, or playing games, that you could
3 not see them dart out, because the visibility was blocked
4 by their vehicles.
5 Q. Did the defendant respond in any way?
6 A. No.
7 Q. Did you approach her another time, in
8 person, about seeing the boys fairly far away from their
9 home?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. Okay. What did you tell the
12 defendant?
13 A. I felt like it was far from home,
14 because it was off their street and out of visibility
15 range, and I let her know that they were over on my
16 street, and up on the other streets riding their bikes.
17 Q. What reaction did you expect?
18
19 MR. DOUGLAS MULDER: To which we
20 object. How is it material what reaction she would
21 expect?
22 THE COURT: I'll overrule that
23 objection. Go ahead, answer it.
24
25 BY MS. SHERRI WALLACE:
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5421

1 Q. Why did you tell her these things, Ms.
2 Schirmer?
3 A. I felt like that she would be
4 surprised to know that they were that far from home or
5 that she would appreciate the fact that I brought it to
6 her attention and to have them either stay closer to home
7 or go where they needed to go and check in.
8 Q. Did you get that reaction?
9 A. No.
10 Q. What did she say, if anything?
11 A. She didn't really seem to say
12 anything, or be that concerned.
13 Q. Did you have the opportunity to --
14 were you and your family invited to Devon's fifth
15 birthday party?
16 A. Yes, we were.
17 Q. Okay. That was in June of 1994?
18 A. I believe it was, yes.
19 Q. And tell the members of the jury, what
20 sort of birthday party was that? What did y'all do?
21 A. Devon's birthday party was in a park.
22 It was picnic style. Just a community setting type, a
23 spread, you know, pinatas to bust, some water balloons,
24 and water guns, and food.
25 Q. What happened there?
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5422

1 A. It was a family social, we did the
2 pinata breaking, played games, and the kids filled their
3 water guns, and played with the water balloons, and
4 everybody sprayed one another with them.
5 Q. So, did a water fight break out?
6 A. Yes, it did.
7 Q. Okay. Tell us about that.
8 A. Well, a water fight broke out and the
9 parents and the children were spraying one another. It
10 was not just among the children.
11 And, at one point, everybody was
12 pretty wet, and Darlie had said, "Okay, enough is enough.
13 Let's stop the water gun fight now."
14 And one person sneaked in a squirt
15 here and there, and the next thing you know, everyone is
16 squirting again. And Devon sprayed Darlie, and she got
17 really mad about it. She immediately grabbed a piece of
18 birthday cake off the table and shoved it right into his
19 face.
20 Q. How did she do that?
21 A. By grabbing his head and reaching for
22 the plate off the table and shoving the two together.
23 Q. So with one hand she held his head,
24 and with the other hand, she put the cake in his face?
25 A. Yes.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5423

1 Q. Did she look playful?
2 A. No. Everybody stopped laughing and
3 stared right at her and at Devon expecting him to start
4 crying and --
5
6 MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY: Objection to
7 what people were expecting.
8 THE COURT: Sustained. The jury is
9 instructed to disregard that statement by the witness.
10
11 BY MS. SHERRI WALLACE:
12 Q. What did Devon do?
13 A. He stood there for a moment, just
14 stared at her and he got angry.
15 Q. What did the defendant do?
16 A. She told him that he was warned and to
17 stop and that he got what he deserved.
18 Q. Now, the woman we're talking about, do
19 you see her in the courtroom?
20 A. Yes, ma'am, I do.
21 Q. Would you point her out for the jury?
22 A. She is the woman in the red and white
23 dress.
24 Q. The woman over her tapping her pen and
25 taking notes?
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5424

1 A. Yes, ma'am.
2
3 MS. SHERRI WALLACE: Let the record
4 reflect that the witness has identified the defendant.
5 THE COURT: Yes, ma'am.
6
7 BY MS. SHERRI WALLACE:
8 Q. What did you think at point, Ms.
9 Schirmer?
10
11 MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY: Objection to
12 what she thought, that is pure speculation and hearsay.
13 THE COURT: Sustained.
14 MS. SHERRI WALLACE: What she thought
15 herself, your Honor.
16 MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY: What she
17 thought --
18 THE COURT: Wait a minute. Ladies and
19 gentlemen, an objection will be sufficient. Sustained.
20 Move on.
21
22 BY MS. SHERRI WALLACE:
23 Q. What did you do at that point, Ms.
24 Schirmer?
25 A. My husband and I discussed leaving the
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5425

1 party.
2 Q. Okay. Did you leave?
3 A. No, we did not.
4 Q. Why not?
5 A. Because the children were still
6 playing over in the pinata area and had not witnessed it,
7 and wouldn't have understood if we were just to tell them
8 that we needed to go right in the middle of their
9 activity.
10 Q. A little bit later in the party, did
11 you witness another exchange between the defendant and
12 her, at that time, five year old son, Devon?
13 A. Yes, ma'am.
14 Q. Tell the jury about that.
15 A. She approached Devon and told him that
16 he was not to try to do it again, or to get even with her
17 for putting the cake in his face.
18 Q. What was her tone?
19 A. Under her breath and talking through
20 her teeth.
21
22 MS. SHERRI WALLACE: I'll pass the
23 witness.
24
25
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5426

1 CROSS EXAMINATION
2
3 BY MR. RICHARD MOSTY:
4 Q. Ms. Schirmer, I take it that you don't
5 much like Mrs. Routier?
6 A. That is not true.
7 Q. You do like her?
8 A. Yes, sir.
9 Q. How do you discipline your children?
10 Do you spank them?
11 A. I have occasionally.
12 Q. With your hand?
13 A. Yes, sir.
14 Q. Some people could disagree with that,
15 couldn't they?
16 A. If they wanted to.
17 Q. You do, perhaps different than someone
18 else disciplines their children?
19 A. That is probably true.
20 Q. Okay. Does your husband spank them?
21 A. Occasionally.
22 Q. With his hand?
23 A. Yes, sir.
24 Q. With anything else?
25 A. No, sir.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5427

1 Q. All right. And, how old are your
2 kids?
3 A. Nine and six.
4 Q. You ever have any hard days with them?
5 A. Yes, I do.
6 Q. Do you ever raise your voice to them?
7 A. Yes, I have.
8 Q. Ever get angry with them?
9 A. I get angry, yes.
10 Q. Okay. Ever do some things that you
11 regret doing with them?
12 A. I can't say that I have.
13 Q. Nothing you regret?
14 A. Not that I can remember.
15 Q. Some people could perhaps disagree
16 with how you handle some of those situations.
17
18 MS. SHERRI WALLACE: I'm going to
19 object to speculation on her part.
20 THE COURT: I'll sustain that. Let's
21 move on.
22
23 BY MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY:
24 Q. Are you a perfect mother?
25 A. No, I am not.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5428

1 Q. Have you ever slapped your kids, hit
2 your kids?
3
4 MS. SHERRI WALLACE: Object to
5 relevance.
6 MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY: Your Honor,
7 this lady --
8 THE COURT: Mr. Mosty, all I need is
9 an objection, please. Overruled.
10
11 BY MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY:
12 Q. Have you ever slapped your kids, or
13 pushed them away, or grabbed them up by the arm?
14 A. No, sir.
15 Q. Never, never have?
16 A. No, sir.
17 Q. And, you know that a lot of people do
18 different things, don't you?
19 A. Yes, sir.
20 Q. As a matter of fact, you know, for
21 instance, that there was conversation, that Darin and
22 Darlie were talking about getting speed bumps into the
23 neighborhood?
24
25 MS. SHERRI WALLACE: I'll object as to
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5429

1 hearsay and speculation.
2 THE COURT: Sustained, hearsay. Go
3 ahead.
4 MR. DOUGLAS MULDER: If she knows.
5
6 BY MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY:
7 Q. Well, do you know whether or not the
8 Routiers were looking into getting speed bumps in that
9 area?
10 THE COURT: I'll let her answer that.
11 Do you know of your own knowledge?
12 THE WITNESS: No, I do not know.
13
14 BY MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY:
15 Q. You don't know one way or the other,
16 do you?
17 A. I know that -- it's not to my
18 knowledge that they were trying to do that, no.
19 Q. Of course, how many times have you
20 ever been in their house?
21 A. A couple of dozen.
22 Q. A couple of dozen times you have been
23 in their house?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. And you don't know whether or not they
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5430

1 addressed the matter of cars and the speed in that area
2 or not, do you?
3 A. I -- Darin has, in a remote way,
4 addressed the speed of the --
5 Q. In a remote way Darin addressed it.
6 Is that what you are saying?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. So Darin did express some concern and
9 take some action toward speed bumps. Is that what you
10 are telling us now?
11 A. He had -- no, not towards the speed
12 bumps, towards the traffic that was on that corner.
13 Q. Matter of fact, what he did was, he
14 parked his car out there, to try to slow things down,
15 didn't he?
16
17 MS. SHERRI WALLACE: Object. That's
18 hearsay. It's not the actions of the defendant.
19 THE COURT: Overruled. If she
20 knows -- if you know yourself or of your own knowledge,
21 answer the question.
22 THE WITNESS: Could you repeat the
23 question?
24
25 BY MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY:
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5431

1 Q. That is why the car was parked -- that
2 is why they parked the car in front, wasn't it, to slow
3 things down?
4 A. That was his reply when we said to him
5 that it actually blocked the vision and especially when
6 the children were behind it.
7 Q. Now, that conversation that you had
8 about the children and visibility, was that with Darin or
9 Darlie?
10 A. Actually, my conversation with --
11 about the children was directly with Darlie.
12 Q. And so, you know that apparently
13 Darlie and Darin were talking about it.
14 A. I do not know that.
15 Q. Well, you know Darin said that is why
16 we're parking the cars in front?
17 A. That is what he said.
18 Q. That would be an appropriate response,
19 wouldn't it?
20 A. I did not think so, I disagreed.
21 Q. You didn't like it?
22 A. No.
23 Q. Okay. Well, you know you couldn't get
24 speed bumps on that street, don't you?
25 A. I am aware of that.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5432

1 Q. Okay. And you know that that sort of
2 was a wide area, that was a bit of a traffic problem
3 anyway?
4 A. It's a cul-de-sac area, yes.
5 Q. And these boys were -- you live how
6 far away?
7 A. Two blocks.
8 Q. Two blocks?
9 A. Um-hum. (Witness nodding head
10 affirmatively.)
11 Q. And the boys were riding their bicycle
12 on that street?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. I guess your thought was that the boys
15 should only ride their bicycle immediately in front of
16 the house?
17 A. Or out of the street.
18 Q. Or out of the street. What does that
19 mean?
20 A. On the sidewalk.
21 Q. So was your concern that they were not
22 on the sidewalk, or was your concern that they were on
23 your street?
24 A. My concern was their safety riding in
25 the street.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5433

1 Q. Okay. So, if they had been riding on
2 the sidewalk in your neighborhood on your street, that
3 wouldn't have bothered you?
4 A. Not as much.
5 Q. Okay. Of course, it's a little bit
6 hard -- do your kids ever ride their bicycle in the
7 street?
8 A. Yes, they do.
9 Q. And so, it's a little bit hard
10 sometimes to cover those things, isn't it?
11 A. They ride with their parents and with
12 helmets and to the side.
13 Q. Okay. You know that, I guess, that
14 they never ride in the street?
15 A. That my kids never ride in the street?
16 Q. Right.
17 A. No. I just stated that they do, that
18 they have.
19 Q. Matter of fact, your kids ride over to
20 the Routiers' house, wouldn't they?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. On their bicycles?
23 A. Yes, sir.
24 Q. How old were they?
25 A. Nine and six.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5434

1 Q. Okay. When they started riding over
2 there, how old were they?
3 A. About eight and five.
4 Q. Okay. And you don't know whether or
5 not they rode in the street or not, do you?
6 A. I do know that they did. I could walk
7 to the corner and see a straight shot to the sidewalk
8 that leads to their house.
9 Q. So you know that they rode in the
10 street some?
11 A. Not to the Routier house.
12 Q. Do you know that?
13 A. Yes, sir.
14 Q. You watched them all the way?
15 A. Yes, sir.
16 Q. You walked down two blocks and watched
17 them?
18 A. I watched to the -- I walked to the
19 end of my street to make sure that they crossed the
20 alley, and across the street, and once they were on that
21 corner.
22 Q. Okay. And then that is how far from
23 the Routiers, a block?
24 A. That would be one alley and one street
25 away.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5435

1 Q. Okay. Then, how do you know how they
2 went on the bicycle from there?
3 A. I don't.
4 Q. And how do you know where they rode
5 their bicycles, when they got over to the Routier house?
6 A. Usually, they just went to the Routier
7 house and got off their bikes.
8 Q. How do you know they didn't ride
9 around in the cul-de-sac?
10 A. I would ask them if I wanted to know.
11 Q. You didn't go down and watch them, did
12 you?
13 A. No, not the whole time.
14 Q. Well, you didn't watch them when they
15 were down at the Routiers' house, did you?
16 A. No.
17 Q. You obviously felt that it was a safe
18 environment for your children, didn't you?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. You would have never sent them down
21 there -- if you had the slightest concern about the
22 safety of your children at the Routiers' house, you
23 wouldn't have let them go, would you?
24 A. If I had a concern for their safety, I
25 would not have let them go.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5436

1 Q. It wouldn't have even crossed your
2 mind, to let them go to the Routiers' house, would it?
3 A. No.
4 Q. If you had the slightest, slightest
5 concern about their safety?
6 A. They had been requested at times to
7 stay outside and not go inside.
8 Q. Ma'am, my question is real simple.
9 A. Okay.
10 Q. You wouldn't have let your children go
11 down there if you had the slightest concern for their
12 well-being, would you?
13 A. That's right.
14
15 MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY: That's all I
16 have.
17 THE COURT: You may step down, ma'am.
18 Watch your step going off, please.
19 THE WITNESS: Okay. Thank you.
20 THE COURT: Ma'am, you are now -- do
21 not discuss your testimony, when you are not testifying,
22 with anybody who has testified. In other words, don't
23 compare it.
24 You have to remain outside the
25 Courtroom when you are not testifying.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5437

1 THE WITNESS: Yes, sir.
2 THE COURT: You may talk to the
3 attorneys for either side. If someone tries to talk to
4 you about your testimony, please tell the attorney for
5 the side who called you. Okay?
6 THE WITNESS: Okay.
7 THE COURT: Thank you.
8 MR. TOBY L. SHOOK: We will call Nelda
9 Watts.
10 THE COURT: Nelda Watts. Ma'am, could
11 you raise your right hand, please.
12
13 (Whereupon, the witness
14 Was duly sworn by the
15 Court, to speak the truth,
16 The whole truth and
17 Nothing but the truth,
18 After which, the
19 Proceedings were
20 Resumed as follows:
21
22 THE COURT: Do you solemnly swear or
23 affirm that the testimony you are about to give will be
24 the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so
25 help you God?
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5438

1 THE WITNESS: I do.
2 THE COURT: Okay. Just have a seat
3 right here, please, ma'am. Watch your step.
4 Just speak right into this microphone,
5 and speak real loud. Your voice is going to echo, but
6 don't be concerned, so that gentleman down there in the
7 corner can hear you.
8 Now, both sides are going to ask you
9 questions. Listen to the question and give them a direct
10 answer.
11
12
13 Whereupon,
14
15 NELDA WATTS,
16
17 was called as a witness, for the State of Texas, in the
18 Punishment Phase, having been first duly sworn by the
19 Court to speak the truth, the whole truth, and nothing
20 but the truth, testified in open court, as follows:
21
22 THE COURT: State your name and spell
23 it for the court reporter, please.
24 THE WITNESS: Nelda, N-E-L-D-A, Watts,
25 W-A-T-T-S.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5439

1 THE COURT: Thank you. That is good.
2
3 DIRECT EXAMINATION
4
5 BY MR. TOBY L. SHOOK:
6 Q. You are Nelda Watts; is that right?
7 A. Yes, sir.
8 Q. Okay. Where do you live, Ms. Watts?
9 A. 5802 Eagle Drive, Rowlett.
10 Q. How long have you lived there?
11 A. It will be three years this month.
12 Q. Do you live there with your husband?
13 A. Yes, I do.
14 Q. Do you have any children?
15 A. I have two that are on their own.
16 Q. Okay. And, are you employed right
17 now?
18 A. No, sir.
19 Q. Okay. Retired?
20 A. Yes, sir.
21 Q. What did you do before you retired?
22 A. I was a school teacher for 34 years.
23 Q. Okay. And, what grades did you teach?
24 A. Actually, everything from kindergarten
25 to preschool all the way to -- I did a few months in
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5440

1 junior high.
2 Q. Okay. And you have lived over on
3 Eagle Drive for the last three years?
4 A. We moved in, in March of '94.
5 Q. Okay. Let me show you what's been
6 marked as State's Exhibit No. 8. It's kind of an
7 overhead photo of the neighborhood there. Can you see
8 5801 Eagle, the Routiers' home? Could you see where your
9 house would be?
10 A. Well, yes.
11 Q. What was your address again?
12 A. 5802. I don't --
13 Q. Okay. I'll make it easy for you.
14 A. I was looking too closely. All right.
15 Yes.
16 Q. Okay. Do you recognize this to be at
17 least part of your house?
18 A. Yes, sir.
19 Q. And you're right across the street
20 from the Routiers?
21 A. Yes, I am.
22 Q. Okay. Now, let me turn your attention
23 back to June 18th of 1996. And ask you if you were home
24 during the day on that date?
25 A. I was home most of the morning.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5441

1 Q. Okay. And, did you hear something out
2 in the front yard, or towards what would be your front
3 yard, that drew your attention to the window?
4 A. Yes, sir, from my bedroom I heard
5 sounds.
6 Q. And does your bedroom window, if you
7 look out it, do you see the Routier home?
8 A. Yes, sir.
9 Q. Okay. When you heard some sounds, did
10 you go to the window and look out?
11 A. I did.
12 Q. Okay. What did you see when you
13 looked out there? Who was out there?
14 A. I saw Darlie and Darin Routier.
15 Q. Okay. Do you see Darlie Routier here
16 in the courtroom today?
17 A. I haven't even looked. Yes.
18 Q. Okay. Is that the woman seated here
19 with the red dress on?
20 A. Yes, it is.
21
22 MR. TOBY L. SHOOK: Your Honor, if the
23 record could reflect that the witness has identified the
24 defendant?
25 THE COURT: Yes.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5442

1 BY MR. TOBY L. SHOOK:
2 Q. And, where was Darlie Routier and her
3 husband, Darin Routier?
4 A. They were in the front yard. Darlie
5 was to the south of the sidewalk, and Darin was to the
6 north of the main sidewalk.
7 Q. Okay. And, was their Pathfinder
8 parked out in the front?
9 A. Yes, sir.
10 Q. Where was that parked?
11 A. It would be almost to the south
12 boundary of their yard.
13 Q. Okay. Was there something there that
14 had been placed in their front yard near the fountain
15 they had?
16 A. There were many funeral wreaths, there
17 were stuffed animals, flags, signs that people had placed
18 there.
19 Q. Okay. And as you looked out there,
20 what were the -- Darin and Darlie Routier doing?
21 A. Darin was taking the animals and flags
22 off of the wreaths.
23 Q. What types of animals were on the
24 wreaths?
25 A. Well, some of them were teddy bears
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5443

1 and other kinds of little, just small animals.
2 Q. And where was Darlie when he was doing
3 this?
4 A. Most of the time, she was on the other
5 side of the sidewalk that goes up to their house.
6 Q. Okay. Can we see it sort of here in
7 the aerial photograph, where they were? I'll bring it up
8 to you.
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. Do you see the fountain here?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. Okay.
13 A. Darlie was on this side, close to this
14 tree. He was on this side, and the wreaths were mostly
15 on this side closer to the fountain.
16 Q. And you are looking out here from your
17 window?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. Okay. If you could point again here
20 on the photograph, and I'll bring it down to the jurors.
21 A. Okay.
22 Q. This area here, is where Darin was by
23 the fountain?
24 A. Yes. He was on the -- the wreaths and
25 such were here, he was on this side and she was over
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5444

1 closer toward this tree.
2 Q. Okay.
3
4 THE COURT: Mr. Mosty, can you see
5 that?
6 MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY: Yes, sir.
7 THE COURT: Okay.
8
9 BY MR. TOBY L. SHOOK:
10 Q. And your house is 5802?
11 A. Yes, sir, 5802.
12 Q. And when you -- you heard some noises.
13 What is the first noise that you heard?
14 A. It sounded sort of like children
15 laughing, that kind of thing.
16 Q. And, what did you see then?
17 A. Well, as I watched for a few minutes,
18 the -- Darin would take a stuffed animal off of one of
19 the wreaths and toss it over to Darlie and she would jump
20 up and catch it, and then she would toss it back to him
21 and he would chuck it toward the vehicle, the back end of
22 the vehicle was open, and if he threw it in, she would
23 jump up and cheer.
24 Q. Okay. What else did you see?
25 A. Well, he took a flag off of one of
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5445

1 them, and she cheered as he climbed up the water fountain
2 and put it at the top of the fountain and it stayed there
3 for several months, or weeks anyway.
4 Q. Okay. Then what did you see them do?
5 A. Well, they started -- after they got
6 most of the animals off and I didn't stand there the
7 whole time, but I looked again, because I was waiting to
8 go out and get the mail. I didn't want to go out there
9 while they were out there doing that.
10 So I looked again, and they were
11 taking the wreaths and dragging them around toward the
12 back, I assume for the trash.
13 And so, I quickly made a run out to
14 the mailbox to check the mail before I left.
15 Q. Okay. This was on the 18th of June of
16 1996?
17 A. Yes, sir, it was the 18th.
18 Q. As best you recall?
19 A. I know it was.
20 Q. Okay. Did you find out later that day
21 that Mrs. Routier was taken into custody, later on that
22 day?
23 A. My other daughter called me at the --
24 where I was.
25 Q. I don't want you to get into what
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5446

1 anyone else told.
2 A. No, sir, I'm just --
3 Q. But did you learn that later on?
4 A. Yes, I watched it on TV.
5 Q. Okay.
6
7 MR. TOBY L. SHOOK: Okay. That's all
8 we have, Judge.
9
10 CROSS EXAMINATION
11
12 BY MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY:
13 Q. Ms. Watts, if I understand, that's why
14 you're positive it was the 18th, because it stuck in your
15 mind that that's the same day of the arrest?
16 A. Yes, sir.
17 Q. That is why you are so sure about that
18 date?
19 A. Yes, I am sure.
20 Q. Can you see this?
21 A. Not just real clearly.
22 Q. Okay. From there?
23 A. The lights are -- there's a little
24 glare.
25 Q. I'm trying to figure out some way to
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5447

1 do this without cutting off the Judge and so everybody
2 can see.
3
4 THE COURT: That's quite all right,
5 Mr. Mosty. Go ahead.
6 You may want to step down, ma'am. And
7 watch your step going off there. Watch your step going
8 down there, please. Yes. Okay. All right. Make sure
9 that everybody can see it all right.
10
11 (Whereupon, the witness
12 stepped down from the
13 witness box, and approached
14 the jury rail, for the
15 purpose of further describing
16 the exhibit to the jury.)
17
18 BY MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY:
19 Q. Now, Ms. Watts, let's see, is this --
20 that is the front of your house there?
21 A. Yes, sir.
22 Q. Okay. How far is that from where the
23 Routiers were standing?
24 A. Oh, it's not very -- just a street
25 width and our yard.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5448

1 Q. Okay. And you were upstairs in
2 your --
3 A. Oh, no, I had a downstairs bedroom.
4 Q. Downstairs bedroom?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. Where is it located?
7 A. Oh, he will have bring it down so I
8 can reach it.
9 Q. All right.
10 A. My bedroom is right near this window.
11 Q. It's on the left if I were looking
12 from the street?
13 A. Yes, sir.
14 Q. Okay. That is where you first, or
15 something first came to your attention?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. Do you have curtains or blinds or
18 something?
19 A. I have mini blinds.
20 Q. Were they open?
21 A. No, I lift it up if I need to -- if I
22 hear a noise that I need to see.
23 Q. If I understand, have you ever had a
24 conversation with Darlie Routier?
25 A. No.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5449

1 Q. Never have even talked to her?
2 A. No.
3 Q. She's never been to your house, she
4 has never been -- vice-versa?
5 A. No.
6 Q. Okay. So you looked out this window?
7 A. Yes, sir.
8 Q. Where was this vehicle parked?
9 A. It was parked closer down here.
10 Q. Okay.
11 A. Very close to -- I think it's a fire
12 hydrant.
13 Q. Okay. The property -- closer to the
14 Routiers' property line?
15 A. Yes, sir. It was not in the front.
16 Q. Which way was it facing?
17 A. It was facing south.
18 Q. So the back of it would have been
19 facing toward the side?
20 A. Right.
21 Q. And you saw Darin Routier in the
22 fountain area?
23 A. In front of the fountain, yes.
24 Q. What was he doing?
25 A. Well, he took the teddy bears or other
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5450

1 stuffed animals off of the wreaths, and tossed them to
2 her.
3 Q. And she was standing over here?
4 A. Yes, sir.
5 Q. So he -- from that fountain, he threw
6 them across?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. To where she was standing?
9 A. Yes, sir.
10 Q. How far would that be?
11 A. Maybe 10 or 12 feet.
12 Q. That is just 10 or 12 feet?
13 A. Well, he didn't stay stationary there.
14 He moved at times, and she moved at times.
15 Q. But she always stayed on this side?
16 A. Until they started moving the wreaths.
17 Q. Okay. But this teddy bear throwing,
18 he is standing on one side, and she is standing on the
19 other side, then you say she would pick up --
20 A. Either catch it, or if she didn't
21 catch it, she would pick it up and toss it back to him.
22 Q. And throw it back over the sidewalk?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. Anybody else out there?
25 A. No, sir. I am pretty well there --
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5451

1 during the day.
2 Q. No, I am talking about anyone else in
3 the area?
4 A. Oh, no one was around that area, no,
5 sir.
6 Q. Okay. And then, how many times would
7 they throw it back and forth?
8 A. Usually she just tossed it back once,
9 then he would throw it towards the car, the vehicle.
10 Q. So, hold that straight, Mr. Mulder.
11 So he would get it over here?
12 A. Um-hum. (Witness nodding head
13 affirmatively.)
14 Q. He would throw it over one time to
15 this side?
16 A. Um-hum. (Witness nodding head
17 affirmatively.)
18 Q. She would throw it back?
19 A. Um-hum. (Witness nodding head
20 affirmatively.)
21 Q. And then Darin would throw it?
22 A. That's true.
23 Q. Way over by the car?
24 A. Yes, and sometimes it went in.
25 Q. Sometimes I guess it landed in the
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5452

1 street?
2 A. I don't know that it went in the
3 street, but maybe down below.
4 Q. All right. In the yard?
5 A. But not what I call in the street.
6 Q. Okay. And how many times did this
7 happen?
8 A. Three or four times.
9 Q. Three or four of those?
10 A. Yes, sir.
11 Q. Okay. And they all happened the same
12 way?
13 A. Just about.
14 Q. What time of day was this?
15 A. Approximately, 10:30 or 11:00 o'clock.
16 Q. And you never saw any other cars?
17 A. No.
18 Q. Come up?
19 A. No, sir.
20 Q. How long did you watch, total?
21 A. I watched a couple of minutes and then
22 I did some packing because I was going to be going to my
23 daughter's. Then I looked again, because I wanted to see
24 if they were still there. I just didn't want to go out
25 to the mailbox at that point.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5453

1 Q. Okay. So the first part is when they
2 are having -- throwing stuff, and then you sort of went
3 away?
4 A. I went back to the bed to pack.
5 Q. Okay. And then you came out and you
6 saw something with regard to the flowers?
7 A. I did not come out.
8 Q. Okay. I'm sorry. You came back to
9 the window?
10 A. I came to the window.
11 Q. Same window?
12 A. Same, I only have one.
13 Q. Okay. You saw something with flowers?
14 A. They took the -- well, first, he took
15 the flag and put a flag up on top of the fountain.
16 Q. Okay. A little flag?
17 A. It's just one of those, maybe, 8 by
18 10s, or something like that.
19 Q. An American flag?
20 A. Yes, sir.
21 Q. He put it on top of the fountain?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. Then they started doing something with
24 the wreaths?
25 A. They started dragging them, they were
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5454

1 dead.
2 Q. Okay. They were dead wreaths?
3 A. They started dragging them around the
4 side of the house, and when they did that, then I went
5 out.
6 Q. Okay. So the first part was taking
7 things off of the wreaths?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. Flags or teddy bears or whatever might
10 be on it because the wreaths were dead?
11 A. Yes, sir.
12 Q. And then the second part of it was
13 taking the wreaths themselves?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. Where did they take them?
16 A. Well, they took them around the side
17 of the house. I can't see where they put them.
18 Q. So they went out of sight?
19 A. Yes, sir.
20 Q. How many trips did that take?
21 A. I only waited for one.
22 Q. And then you went outside?
23 A. I ran to the mailbox and got the mail.
24 Q. Okay. You went back in?
25 A. Yes.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5455

1 Q. That's all you saw?
2 A. I left.
3 Q. Anything else you saw that day?
4 A. No, sir.
5 Q. That's it?
6 A. Yes, sir.
7
8 MR. DOUGLAS MULDER: How am I doing?
9 MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY: You are doing
10 fine. Thank you.
11 THE COURT: All right. Ma'am, you may
12 have a seat. Watch your step going up there, please,
13 ma'am.
14
15 (Whereupon, the witness
16 Resumed the witness
17 Stand, and the
18 Proceedings were resumed
19 On the record, as
20 Follows:)
21
22 MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY: That's all I
23 have.
24 THE COURT: Anything else?
25
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5456

1 REDIRECT EXAMINATION
2
3 BY MR. TOBY L. SHOOK:
4 Q. When you saw them doing that, how did
5 you feel, Ms. Watts?
6
7 MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY: I'll object to
8 that.
9 THE COURT: I'll sustain the
10 objection.
11 If you will just step, be very careful
12 stepping down, ma'am.
13 Ma'am, I've got to warn you of one
14 more thing: When you are not testifying, you have to
15 remain outside the courtroom. Don't talk to anybody
16 about your testimony to anybody that has testified.
17 In other words, don't compare it. You
18 may talk to the attorneys for either side. If someone
19 tries to talk to you about your testimony, tell the side
20 who called you.
21 THE WITNESS: All right. Thank you.
22 THE COURT: Thank you. You may step
23 down.
24 THE WITNESS: Yes, sir.
25 THE COURT: All right. Your next
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5457

1 witness.
2 MS. WALLACE: We will call Kay Norris.
3 THE COURT: If you will come on up
4 please, ma'am. Will you raise your right hand, please,
5 ma'am?
6
7 (Whereupon, the witness
8 Was duly sworn by the
9 Court, to speak the truth,
10 The whole truth and
11 Nothing but the truth,
12 After which, the
13 Proceedings were
14 Resumed as follows:)
15
16 THE COURT: Do you solemnly swear or
17 affirm that the testimony you are about to give will be
18 the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so
19 help you God?
20 THE WITNESS: I do.
21 THE COURT: Have a seat right here,
22 please.
23 THE COURT: All right. Is this your
24 first time to testify?
25 THE WITNESS: Yes, sir.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5458

1 THE COURT: Relax. Speak right into
2 this microphone loudly enough so that gentleman can hear
3 you. You will hear your voice echo. Do not be
4 distressed. Both sides will ask you questions, listen to
5 the questions and answer them very succinctly.
6 MS. SHERRI WALLACE: Tell us your
7 name.
8 THE WITNESS: Kay Norris.
9 THE COURT: Please spell your name for
10 the court reporter.
11 THE WITNESS: K-A-Y, N-O-R-R-I-S.
12 THE COURT: You may have a drink of
13 water if you need it.
14
15
16 Whereupon,
17
18 KAY NORRIS,
19
20 was called as a witness, for the State of Texas, having
21 been first duly sworn by the Court to speak the truth,
22 the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, testified in
23 open court, as follows:
24
25
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5459

1 DIRECT EXAMINATION
2
3 BY MS. SHERRI WALLACE:
4 Q. Ms. Norris, are you sick?
5 A. I am very sick. I have got strep
6 throat.
7 Q. I'm sorry you have to be down here. I
8 will try to be as brief as possible. How old are you?
9 A. I'm 31.
10 Q. Are you married?
11 A. I am.
12 Q. And, do you have any children?
13 A. I have three boys.
14 Q. Where do you work?
15 A. Now, I work at Glamour Shots.
16 Q. Tell us what Glamour Shots is.
17 A. It's you go in there and get fixed up
18 and they take your picture.
19 Q. Kind of get dressed up like a
20 Hollywood movie star or something and they take your
21 picture?
22 A. Yes, exactly, very glamourous.
23 Q. Before that, did you work at the
24 American Pawn Shop there in Garland?
25 A. Yes, ma'am, I did.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5460

1 Q. How long did you work at that pawn
2 shop?
3 A. I'll say altogether, about three and a
4 half years.
5 Q. Okay. About when did you leave your
6 employment there?
7 A. December of '95.
8 Q. Did you work right until -- before
9 Christmas?
10 A. Yes, ma'am.
11 Q. Okay. In your three and a half years
12 at the pawn shop, did you have an occasion to get to know
13 Darin and Darlie Routier?
14 A. Yes, ma'am, I did.
15 Q. All right. About how often would they
16 come in?
17 A. At least once a week, maybe more.
18 Q. How many times in the three and a half
19 years that you worked there did you see Darin and Darlie?
20 A. I can't tell you how many, at least
21 over 50.
22 Q. Okay. Do you see Darlie Routier in
23 the courtroom now?
24 A. Yes, she is right there.
25 Q. Would you point her out and describe
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5461

1 what she is wearing.
2 A. She is over there. She has got a red
3 and white dress on.
4 Q. Is she writing on her pad right now?
5 A. Yes, yes, ma'am.
6
7 MS. SHERRI WALLACE: Let the record
8 reflect that the witness has identified the defendant.
9 THE COURT: Yes, ma'am.
10
11 BY MS. SHERRI WALLACE:
12 Q. When she would come in, who would she
13 be with?
14 A. Darin most of the time. I have never
15 seen her come in by herself.
16 Q. Okay. Did she ever come in with her
17 children?
18 A. I seen her children once.
19 Q. Okay. When her and her husband came
20 into the shop, what were they looking for?
21 A. Jewelry.
22 Q. What area of the pawn shop did you
23 work in?
24 A. I worked in jewelry.
25 Q. Were they customers of yours?
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5462

1 A. Yes, ma'am.
2 Q. When the defendant would come into the
3 shop how would she appear? How would she be dressed?
4 What did she look like?
5 A. Can I be blunt?
6 Q. Sure.
7 A. She was very tacky dressed. She never
8 wore undergarments, no bra, everything was showing
9 usually. She always wore a big T-shirt. I have seen her
10 a couple times in sweats, most of the time in shorts.
11 But the way she was dressed, she always wore -- she
12 always had all of her jewelry on, her hair was never
13 fixed, she never had any makeup on. I have never seen
14 her clean up.
15 Q. Have you ever seen her look like that?
16 A. No.
17 Q. Did you have the opportunity to wait
18 on the defendant quite frequently?
19 A. Oh, yes, ma'am.
20 Q. Have you worked in retail your whole
21 life?
22 A. Yes, ma'am.
23 Q. How did the defendant treat you?
24 A. Very rude.
25 Q. Well, what do you mean?
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5463

1 A. Well, she would ask to see a specific
2 piece of jewelry, and I would go to hand it to her and
3 she would grab it from your hand.
4 And she just -- she would look at her
5 jewelry, and she was just like, she was just so rude and
6 she would just like throw it back at you. She was never,
7 you know, passionate with you, or however you say it.
8 She was just very rude.
9 Q. Was this just one or two times, Ms.
10 Norris?
11 A. No, ma'am, every time she came in. In
12 fact, she had like a nickname. When she came in because
13 there were two other people that worked --
14
15 MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY: I'll object to
16 speculation and hearsay.
17 THE COURT: Well, if she knows what
18 her nickname was in the establishment.
19 MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY: That would be
20 hearsay and speculation in a place where Mrs. Routier is
21 not present. How can that be cross examined?
22 THE COURT: Thank you very much.
23 Overruled. Answer the question, if you know.
24
25 BY MS. SHERRI WALLACE:
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5464

1 Q. Let me just ask you this, Ms. Norris:
2 When the defendant and her husband would come in, would
3 you all -- would you want to wait on her?
4 A. Oh, yes, ma'am. We all wanted to wait
5 on her.
6 Q. Why is that?
7 A. Because she always bought something.
8 I got commission off her, I didn't have anything against
9 her. I made money off that woman.
10 Q. How often would she buy stuff?
11 A. Almost every time she came in.
12 Q. What sort of things did Mrs. Routier
13 like to look at?
14 A. All of the big stuff. She knew what
15 she wanted. She was very smart in what she wanted. She
16 never looked at anything small.
17 Q. Did she pay for it?
18 A. No, Darin did.
19 Q. Okay. Did Darin ever say, "No, you
20 can't have that"?
21 A. Oh, yes, ma'am.
22 Q. All right. What would happen then?
23 A. She would get very, very verbal with
24 him, cussing him, saying she wanted it now. He would
25 say, "Let's talk about it." And she would say, "No, I
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5465

1 want it now."
2 Q. And then what would happen?
3 A. Oh, she usually got what she wanted.
4 Q. In 1994 you said you saw her boys with
5 her one time; is that right?
6 A. Yes, ma'am.
7 Q. Was she also with her husband at that
8 point?
9 A. Yes, ma'am.
10 Q. Did you know the boys?
11 A. No, ma'am.
12 Q. Okay. When they came in, what
13 happened?
14 A. She was looking at jewelry with Darin
15 and the kids -- we had some exercise equipment that we
16 always had out and every one of the kids that came in
17 there always played on it. Well, they were being loud.
18 And she had told Darin a couple times
19 to go get them, you know, Darin -- and she was like
20 yelling at them, cussing at them across the pawn shop. I
21 guess -- I have people that have got on to their kids,
22 but not yelling at their kids like the way she did.
23 Q. Okay. Tell the jury exactly what she
24 said to her children in your presence.
25 A. Word for word?
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5466

1 Q. Word for word.
2 A. The first time she told them to get
3 their asses over there. And they did not come, and then
4 she told them to get the fuck over there.
5 Q. And, do you know how old these
6 children were?
7 A. No, ma'am, I don't. I just knew that
8 they were smaller. I mean, you know, when you are
9 working and there's people, I see children in there all
10 the time. I looked over to see, you know, the kids when
11 she was talking to them, but as far as looking at them
12 and paying attention, I did not.
13 Q. Okay.
14
15 MS. SHERRI WALLACE: I have no further
16 questions. Pass the witness.
17 THE COURT: Mr. Mosty.
18
19 CROSS EXAMINATION
20
21 BY MR. RICHARD MOSTY:
22 Q. What did you tell me your first name
23 was?
24 A. Kay.
25 Q. Kay. Let's first describe this pawn
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5467

1 shop. What's the name of the place?
2 A. American Pawn.
3 Q. What all have they got there?
4 A. You name it, they had everything.
5 Q. It's a huge store, isn't it?
6 A. It sure was.
7 Q. It's got boats?
8 A. Sometimes.
9 Q. It's like a department store of
10 second-hand stuff?
11 A. Exactly.
12 Q. How many people work there?
13 A. Oh, a bunch. On one shift, I mean,
14 there was like 14 or 15 people there.
15 Q. I mean, is there a sporting goods
16 section?
17 A. Yes, there sure is.
18 Q. Okay. Is there a gun section?
19 A. There sure is.
20 Q. Is there a clothing section?
21 A. Well, coats.
22 Q. Some clothing?
23 A. Exactly.
24 Q. But all sorts of sporting goods? Golf
25 clubs?
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5468

1 A. Yes.
2 Q. Archery?
3 A. Um-hum. (Witness nodding head
4 affirmatively.)
5 Q. What else? Furniture?
6 A. Sometimes.
7 Q. And there is a jewelry department?
8 A. A big jewelry department.
9 Q. This is a big store, isn't it?
10 A. Yeah.
11 Q. Can you describe in square feet how
12 big it is?
13 A. No, sir, I can't.
14 Q. What was your job there?
15 A. I worked in jewelry.
16 Q. Okay. What else -- you said that you
17 had been in retail all of your life?
18 A. I sure have.
19 Q. What other jobs have you had?
20 A. I worked in cosmetics for
21 Bloomingdales and J.C. Penney's.
22 Q. Okay. What else? What other kind of
23 work have you done?
24 A. That's it.
25 Q. That's it, just Bloomingdales?
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5469

1 A. I have worked at Zales, mostly jewelry
2 and mostly cosmetics.
3 Q. Ever hold any other part time jobs?
4 A. Part time?
5 Q. Yeah.
6 A. No.
7 Q. Just to make extra money?
8 A. No.
9 Q. Do any extra things?
10 A. No.
11 Q. Okay. Now, how was it that -- did
12 somebody come talk to you about testifying what you knew
13 about Darlie Routier?
14 A. They found me, yeah.
15 Q. Who was that?
16 A. Lieutenant Grant.
17 Q. Lieutenant Grant?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. When was that?
20 A. Probably about a week or two
21 afterward, after what happened.
22 Q. Within a week?
23 A. It was something like that. I really
24 I can't recall exactly.
25 Q. Did you write out a statement?
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5470

1 A. No.
2 Q. Never did?
3 A. No.
4 Q. Who did you talk to, Grant?
5 A. I talked to Grant and I talked to
6 Bosillo.
7 Q. When did you talk to him?
8 A. Sir, I really can't -- I don't recall
9 exactly the dates.
10 Q. How many times?
11 A. Once.
12 Q. And, how did they find you?
13 A. I have no idea.
14 Q. Somebody just showed up at the -- at
15 your work?
16 A. Yes, sir.
17 Q. And said what? Tell me everything you
18 know bad about Darlie Routier?
19 A. No, sir. They just asked me could I
20 please go and talk to some people. They asked me, did I
21 know her, and I said, yes, just through work. I didn't
22 know her personally.
23 Q. Okay. And, you say that you had
24 waited on her a number of times?
25 A. Yes, sir.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5471

1 Q. And that when she saw jewelry, she
2 would grab it out of your hand?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. Every time?
5 A. Every time.
6 Q. And every time she was in there, she
7 would throw it back at you?
8 A. Yes, sir.
9 Q. Every time?
10 A. Every time.
11 Q. From how far? How wide is the
12 counter, and where did she throw it at you?
13 A. Well, the counter was like about this
14 big and we had to reach in to get her jewelry and I would
15 hand it to her and she would grab it.
16 Q. She would grab it out of your hand?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. Then she would throw it back at you?
19 A. No, she wouldn't throw it at me. She
20 wouldn't even touch us.
21 Q. Well, you said throw.
22 A. No, I didn't say throw. I said she
23 threw it on the counter.
24 Q. Oh, you did not say she would throw it
25 back at you?
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5472

1 A. Well, to me that's the way you throw
2 something is throw it on the counter. She would not hand
3 it back like every other customer that I had waited on.
4 Q. If you said throw it back at you, that
5 is a mistake?
6 A. Well --
7 Q. Is it?
8 A. No, I don't think so.
9 Q. She didn't throw it back at you?
10 A. Yes, she did.
11 Q. She did throw it back at you?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. But it landed on the counter?
14 A. She threw it on the counter. She was
15 very rude in the way she handed it back.
16 Q. Okay.
17
18 THE COURT: It's been thrown on the
19 counter. I think that has been established. Let's go on
20 to the next question.
21 MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY: Well, your
22 Honor, I think I need to -- whatever latitude I need to
23 do to develop this.
24 THE COURT: Well, you do.
25
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5473

1 BY MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY:
2 Q. That happened every time that you
3 waited on her?
4 A. Every time.
5 Q. 50 times?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. But nonetheless, you wanted to wait on
8 her?
9 A. I made money off of her.
10 Q. And matter of fact, you would go to --
11 I mean when you saw her coming, would you go to make
12 sure --
13 A. Well, actually --
14 Q. -- that you waited on her?
15 A. Well, if we didn't, we would usually
16 half the sale because everybody wanted to wait on her.
17 We had certain customers that came in that we wanted to
18 wait on.
19 Q. And, did you describe her as being
20 tackily dressed?
21 A. Very.
22 Q. Very tacky?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. I guess that is in your opinion?
25 A. Everyone's opinion that worked there.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5474

1 Q. Does everyone who work there dress
2 like you do?
3 A. No, the way she was dressed, everyone
4 talked about the way she was dressed.
5 Q. Now, let's talk about this: Who is
6 Dan at the shop?
7 A. He was our boss.
8 Q. He was your boss?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. Did Mrs. Routier ever deal with him?
11 A. On the money part, yes. We showed the
12 jewelry and then we always conversed with him on how much
13 she was going to pay or how much they went down on the
14 price or whatever.
15 Q. Now, then you said that there was an
16 incident -- the only time you saw the boys in there, you
17 said there was an incident where there was some cussing?
18 A. Yes, sir.
19 Q. Now, describe for me -- what was it --
20 Darin was there?
21 A. Yes, sir.
22 Q. And Darlie was there?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. And the boys were playing on
25 something?
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5475

1 A. We had some, like, workout equipment
2 that we always had laying to the right side of our
3 counter.
4 Q. How far away?
5 A. Well, like our counter was huge there.
6 Q. Well, like from this far?
7 A. That's about right.
8 Q. Farther?
9 A. No.
10 Q. Okay. So Mrs. Routier was this far,
11 as far as I am from you from the boys?
12 A. Right.
13 Q. Where is Mr. Routier?
14 A. Beside her.
15 Q. Standing right there beside you?
16 A. Um-hum. (Witness nodding head
17 affirmatively.)
18 Q. And, what is between all this?
19 A. Jewelry. It all went around, it was
20 huge.
21 Q. Big counter?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. Other customers were there?
24 A. Oh, yes.
25 Q. Lots?
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5476

1 A. Oh, yeah.
2 Q. Other sales people there?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. How many?
5 A. In our department or --
6 Q. No, at this incident, at the time of
7 this incident?
8 A. Well, I'm just saying in my department
9 or all over the store?
10 Q. No, I'm saying at the time of this
11 incident, between where the people were?
12 A. Probably between us, probably just
13 one.
14 Q. Okay. One salesperson?
15 A. Right.
16 Q. How many other in the immediate area?
17 A. Well, at the pawn counter there was
18 usually seven or eight people up there.
19 Q. Being sales people mainly?
20 A. Um-hum. (Witness nodding head
21 affirmatively.)
22
23 THE COURT: Ma'am, if you could please
24 say yes or no. Ms. Halsey has to take this down.
25 THE WITNESS: Okay. Sorry.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5477

1
2 BY MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY:
3 Q. Okay. And it's your statement that
4 she said these curse words all this distance across that
5 store?
6 A. Yes, sir.
7 Q. And there were seven or eight of your
8 people there?
9 A. Yes, sir.
10 Q. And some customers as well?
11 A. Yes, sir.
12 Q. What did Darin say?
13 A. Nothing.
14 Q. He said nothing. Did Darin just go
15 on, keep looking at jewelry?
16 A. Yeah. Yes, sir. I'm sorry.
17 Q. And didn't pay any attention?
18 A. No.
19 Q. And then Darin didn't go over and get
20 the boys?
21 A. No.
22 Q. So the boys just kept sitting over
23 there doing whatever they were doing?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. And the Routiers just kept shopping
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5478

1 for jewelry?
2 A. Yes, sir.
3
4 MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY: That's all I
5 have got.
6 MS. SHERRI WALLACE: Thank you.
7 Nothing further. May this witness be excused?
8 THE COURT: All right. Ma'am, you may
9 step down. I must warn you, you must remain outside the
10 courtroom when you are not testifying. Don't talk to
11 anybody who is testifying. Don't compare it.
12 You may talk to the attorneys for
13 either side. If someone tries to talk to you about your
14 testimony, tell the attorney for the side who called you.
15 Your next witness.
16 THE WITNESS: Thank you.
17 BY MR. TODY L. SHOOK: We will call
18 Halina Czaban.
19 THE COURT: May I see both sides for a
20 minute?
21 Ladies and gentlemen, in the interest
22 of time, we do have to break for lunch. It's going to be
23 more convenient now to break now than later. So we will
24 break until 1:00 o'clock, please. Be back at 1:00
25 o'clock.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5479

1
2 (Whereupon, a short
3 recess was taken, after
4 which time, the
5 proceedings were
6 resumed in open court,
7 in the presence and
8 hearing of the
9 Defendant, being
10 represented by his
11 Attorney, but outside of
12 the presence of the jury
13 as follows:)
14
15 THE COURT: All right. Let's go back
16 on the record. These proceedings are being held outside
17 of the presence of the jury and all parties in the trial
18 are present.
19 Will you please state your name,
20 please, ma'am?
21 THE WITNESS: My name is Halina
22 Czaban.
23 THE COURT: And your name, Sister?
24 THE TRANSLATOR: Krystyna Krawczyk.
25 THE COURT: All right. Sister, you
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5480

1 are reminded that you are still under oath as an
2 interpreter in this case.
3 THE TRANSLATOR: Yes.
4 THE COURT: And ma'am, you are
5 reminded that you are still under oath as a witness
6 because you did testify earlier.
7 THE WITNESS: Yes, sir.
8 THE COURT: And you were the
9 interpreter earlier.
10 THE TRANSLATOR: Yes.
11 THE COURT: All right. Thank you.
12 Okay. Bring the jury in, please.
13
14 (Whereupon, the jury

15 Was returned to the
16 Courtroom, and the
17 Proceedings were
18 Resumed on the record,
19 In open court, in the
20 Presence and hearing
21 Of the defendant,
22 As follows:)
23
24 THE COURT: Ladies and gentlemen, let
25 the record reflect that all parties in the trial are
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5481

1 present and the jury is seated.
2 Ladies and gentlemen, these witnesses
3 have already been sworn outside your presence. And as
4 you may recall, the witness, Halina Czaban, while she
5 speaks English prefers her native language of Polish, and
6 she will speak in Polish, and Sister Krystyna, will do
7 the translating just as it was when they previously
8 testified in these proceedings.
9 Go ahead, please, Mr. Shook.
10
11
12 Whereupon,
13
14 HALINA CZABAN,
15
16 was called as a witness, for the State of Texas, in the
17 punishment phase, having been first duly sworn by the
18 Court to speak the truth, the whole truth, and nothing
19 but the truth, testified in open court, as follows:
20
21 DIRECT EXAMINATION
22
23 BY MR. TOBY L. SHOOK:
24 Q. Would you tell us your name, please?
25 A. Halina Czaban.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5482

1 Q. And are you the same woman that
2 testified sometime back in this same trial?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. I want to turn your attention to
5 Wednesday, June 5th, 1996. What time did you arrive at
6 Darlie Routier's home?
7 A. About 8:15, 8:20.
8 Q. All right. And who was in the house
9 when you got there in the morning?
10 A. Darlie and Becky.
11 Q. Okay. Is Becky the 12-year-old girl
12 that had been over there the previous day?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. Where were they located in the house?
15 A. Darlie was sitting in a big armchair,
16 Rebecca was sitting on the couch across from Darlie.
17 Q. Let me show you what's been marked as
18 State's Exhibit 47-A. Is this a photograph of the room
19 where they were sitting?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. And we see a chair here to the side.
22 Is that where Darlie was?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. The couch over here, is that where
25 Rebecca was?
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5483

1 A. Yes.
2 Q. Okay. And, what was going on when you
3 came in the room and they were seated there?
4 A. They were both just sitting.
5 Q. Okay. And what did you say at that
6 time?
7 A. I looked around and I was asking,
8 where was the baby.
9 Q. Okay. And what was said when you
10 asked that question?
11 A. I asked two times and I didn't get an
12 answer.
13 Q. Okay. Did Darlie have anything in her
14 lap?
15 A. Yeah. She had something that looked
16 like a bundle of laundry or clothes.
17 Q. Where was the bundle sitting?
18 A. On her lap.
19 Q. Okay. Could you tell what was in the
20 bundle at that time?
21 A. No.
22 Q. Okay. And you asked twice where the
23 baby was?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. What happened then?
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5484

1 A. Rebecca pointed her finger towards
2 Darlie's lap.
3 Q. Rebecca pointed her finger towards
4 Darlie's lap?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. Okay. What did you say then?
7 A. Then I told her that probably inside
8 it has to be a baby.
9 Q. Okay. What did you say?
10 A. Then two times I said, "Please give me
11 the baby."
12 Q. Okay. Did you do anything with your
13 arms when you said that?
14 A. I stretched my arms towards Darlie
15 because I thought she would give me the baby.
16 Q. Okay. And then what happened?
17 A. She gave me in such a way as though --
18 like she throw at me and then she went upstairs.
19 Q. All right. We have kind of gone over
20 how she handed you the baby, have we not?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. Can you demonstrate, using this doll
23 and blanket, how she was holding the baby?
24 A. Yes. The blanket was like this, the
25 blanket was covered in such a way.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5485

1 Q. And holding it just like that on the
2 lap?
3 A. It was only -- was a bigger blanket
4 and was double blanket.
5 Q. Okay. And show us how she handed the
6 baby to you?
7 A. Like this.
8 Q. And then what did she do?
9 A. And very fast she went upstairs.
10 Q. Did she say anything before she went
11 upstairs?
12 A. She didn't say anything.
13 Q. And what did you do with the baby?
14 A. I started slowly to uncover the baby.
15 Q. Okay. And maybe you can show us how
16 you did that?
17 A. I started slowly to uncover the baby,
18 in such a way.
19 Q. Okay.
20 A. And the face of the baby was very red
21 and very perspiring, and the lips were light blue.
22 Q. Did the baby make any noise at that
23 time?
24 A. No. When I uncovered some more, then
25 the baby started to catch its breath.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5486

1 Q. Then what did the baby do?
2 A. It started to cry.
3 Q. Okay. Did you --
4 A. I would like to show how I was
5 cradling the baby.
6 Q. That was my next question. What did
7 you do with the baby after the baby cried?
8 A. Well, I started to lullaby the baby.
9 The baby was looking at me and crying. I took off my
10 glasses, and started to talk to baby.
11 Q. Did that calm the baby down?
12 A. Yes, it was crying more quiet, and
13 then it was looking at me and then started to close its
14 eyes.
15 Q. Did you get the baby to go to sleep
16 eventually?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. How long was it until Darlie came back
19 from downstairs?
20 A. Maybe 20 or 25 minutes -- it was about
21 20 or 25 minutes.
22 Q. Okay. And what did she tell you to do
23 with the baby when she came back downstairs?
24 A. I asked her, where should I put the
25 baby so the baby could sleep.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5487

1 Q. What did she tell you?
2 A. On the carpet, on the floor.
3 Q. Okay. What did you do then?
4 A. I put it down.
5 Q. Okay. Now, later that morning did you
6 go back in that same room and see Darlie and Rebecca with
7 the baby?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. And where were they sitting again?
10 A. In the same way, Rebecca on the couch
11 and Darlie in the armchair.
12 Q. Where was the baby?
13 A. When they came, I only saw the baby
14 and when baby was falling down towards the table.
15 Q. Had the baby been -- was it standing
16 up or --
17 A. Yeah, it was standing.
18 Q. What was he near when he was standing?
19 A. Near the glass table.
20 Q. Okay. This glass table we see in the
21 center of the photograph?
22 A. Yes, yes.
23 Q. This area?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. Okay. And you said you started to see
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5488

1 the baby fall?
2 A. Yeah, I saw when the baby was falling
3 toward the glass table.
4 Q. What did you do?
5 A. Very quickly I came to the baby and I
6 caught the baby and I shouted, "Oh, my God."
7 Q. What was Darlie and Rebecca's reaction
8 when you caught the baby?
9 A. They were laughing at me.
10 Q. What did you say to them?
11 A. I told her it was not funny.
12 Q. Okay. Later on were you doing wash
13 and doing your work there in the garage and in the
14 washroom?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. When you came into the washroom from
17 the garage, on one occasion did you see something that
18 caused you some concern?
19 A. The baby in the laundry.
20 Q. Where was the baby?
21 A. In the laundry.
22 Q. In the laundry room?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. Okay. And was he on the floor
25 crawling or standing?
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5489

1 A. It was crawling.
2 Q. Okay. How did you come across the
3 baby?
4 A. I -- when I opened the door, I just
5 found the baby near the door and I almost stepped on the
6 baby.
7 Q. Okay. What did you do when you found
8 the baby on the floor there?
9 A. I picked it up, I went to the kitchen
10 and I called Rebecca.
11 Q. Okay. Where were Rebecca and Darlie
12 at that time?
13 A. Upstairs.
14 Q. Okay. Did Rebecca come when you
15 called her?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. And, what did you do then?
18 A. She took the baby and she went
19 upstairs.
20 Q. After lunch, on that same day, was the
21 baby placed in the highchair?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. Where was this highchair located?
24 A. In the kitchen there was a table that
25 usually they were eating by, so the chair was standing by
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5490

1 the table.
2 Q. Okay. Had the boys been in to eat
3 lunch?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. Is that the only time -- is that the
6 first time you had seen them that day?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. Okay. Did you -- after the baby was
9 in the highchair, did you go back to your work in the
10 laundry room?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. Okay. Now, sometime after that, did
13 you hear something that caused you to come into the
14 kitchen?
15 A. Cry of the baby.
16 Q. Okay. When you came in the kitchen,
17 what did you see?
18 A. I saw that the baby had slipped down
19 from the seat of the chair.
20 Q. Okay. How was he positioned?
21 A. The height of the baby was resting on
22 the table and the baby just slipped down from the seat of
23 the chair.
24 Q. The table that was part of the
25 highchair, that is where his head was?
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5491

1 A. Yes.
2 Q. And the baby had slipped out of the
3 chair itself?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. Was the baby crying at that time?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. Okay. And what did you do?
8 A. I came and I wanted to open the seat,
9 but I didn't know how to do this.
10 Q. Okay. So what did you do then?
11 A. I called Rebecca.
12 Q. Where was Rebecca and Darlie at that
13 time?
14 A. Upstairs.
15 Q. Okay. Did Darlie come down or just
16 Rebecca?
17 A. Rebecca.
18 Q. Okay. And what happened then?
19 A. She opened the seat, she picked up the
20 baby and I told her, "Don't do this anymore."
21 Q. Okay. Were you angry with her?
22 A. Yes, I was angry.
23 Q. Okay. Let me turn your attention now
24 to the funeral. Did you go to the boys' funeral?
25 A. Yes.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5492

1 Q. Okay. And at the funeral, did you see
2 Darlie?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. And did you go to her and offer your
5 condolences?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. Okay. What did you say to her?
8 A. I told her that it happened, such a
9 tragedy to her, and now she has to spend so much money
10 for this funeral.
11 Q. Had you spoken to her a couple of days
12 before about her money situation?
13 A. Not much, but yes.
14 Q. Okay. And what was her response to
15 you when you said this to her?
16 A. She told me, "I am not worried because
17 I will get five thousand apiece."
18 Q. Okay. And when you heard her say
19 that, what was your reaction? What did you do?
20 A. I told her, "Darlie, sit down because
21 you must be very tired."
22 Q. Okay.
23
24 MR. TOBY L. SHOOK: That's all the
25 questions we have, Judge.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5493

1 THE COURT: Mr. Mosty.
2
3 CROSS EXAMINATION
4
5 BY MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY:
6 Q. Ms. Czaban, are you a -- do you have
7 psychic qualities?
8
9 MR. TOBY L. SHOOK: Judge, I'll object
10 to relevance.
11 THE COURT: I'll let him ask the
12 question. If she knows the answer, she can answer it.
13
14 BY MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY:
15 Q. Do you have psychic abilities?
16
17 THE TRANSLATOR: Excuse me. Could you
18 qualify this psychic word?
19
20 BY MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY:
21 Q. Ms. Czaban, do you have psychic
22 abilities?
23 A. No, sir.
24
25 THE COURT: Okay. We're going to do
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5494

1 this in Polish or we are not going to do it, because that
2 is the way we're doing that.
3 MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY: Well, your
4 Honor, I don't know how to do that.
5 THE COURT: Do you waive the
6 translation for this question?
7 MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY: For this
8 question, I do.
9 THE COURT: All right. Fine. Do you
10 know the answer to the question? Do you have psychic
11 abilities? Answer it, if you know it.
12 THE WITNESS: Never.
13
14 BY MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY:
15 Q. Never. Have you ever told anybody you
16 have psychic abilities?
17
18 MR. TOBY L. SHOOK: Now, Judge, I'll
19 object to relevance.
20 THE COURT: I'll sustain that.
21 THE WITNESS: What are you trying --
22 THE COURT: Just a minute, ma'am. Do
23 not say anything until the question is asked, please.
24 All right. Let's go back to the question and answer in
25 Polish.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5495

1
2 BY MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY:
3 Q. I guess that that statement about the
4 five thousand dollars bothered you?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. It offended you?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. And you were very upset about it?
9 A. Not so much because I thought it was
10 just a tragedy, and during this time I heard this words,
11 the sentence.
12 Q. Well, it made you not want to have
13 anything to do with her?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. But you still went to the -- on the
16 14th, you went out to the grave site, didn't you, for
17 Devon's birthday?
18 A. My daughter asked me to go with her.
19 Q. And you picked up the child, and you
20 participated, and you were there for hours, weren't you?
21 A. Not the whole time, because I was
22 sitting under the tree, because I didn't like what was
23 happening there.
24 Q. But this lady who had offended you,
25 nonetheless, you went out to the -- were you there for
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5496

1 the prayer service?
2 A. No.
3 Q. Didn't go for the prayer service?
4 A. No, there wasn't any prayer, there
5 wasn't any prayer.
6 Q. There wasn't, you know that, don't
7 you?
8 A. No.
9 Q. Okay. Now, when this five thousand
10 dollar statement was made, where were you standing?
11 A. I was standing near her and I was even
12 holding her.
13 Q. Where?
14 A. By the casket.
15 Q. By the caskets? Is this before the
16 service?
17 A. No, this was the day when they opened
18 first time the casket and when she saw for the first time
19 the children.
20 Q. At that point she had not seen the
21 children at all?
22 A. I don't know.
23 Q. Were you there when Darlie got to the
24 viewing with the police officers?
25 A. I was there because there was a lot of
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5497

1 people.
2 Q. Okay. When she first got there, you
3 were already there?
4 A. I was standing in the hall and people
5 were standing in the line to give -- to express their
6 condolences.
7 Q. Okay. And did she go through the
8 line?
9 A. No, she was standing.
10 Q. Okay. And did Darlie go to the
11 casket?
12 A. She was standing there because she
13 wanted first to greet her children.
14 Q. Is this right after she got to the
15 funeral home?
16 A. Somebody else brought her.
17 Q. Okay. But as soon as she got there,
18 she first went to the casket?
19 A. Because they closed it down because
20 she first greeted children. And all of the people were
21 waiting in a hall.
22 Q. And you were one of those people
23 waiting there?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. Then did Darlie go to the casket?
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5498

1 A. No, she was standing already there
2 when everybody was expressing condolences.
3 Q. After the condolences, did Darlie go
4 to the casket?
5 A. I didn't see what was happening
6 further, because the child was crying, and the family was
7 there, and we were helping the family so the baby would
8 not cry.
9 Q. Now, tell me, where were you and
10 Darlie standing when this five thousand dollar statement
11 was made?
12 A. By the casket.
13 Q. By the casket. Okay. How did you get
14 there?
15 A. I was standing in a line to express my
16 condolences.
17 Q. And Darlie was standing at the casket
18 and were people coming to the casket where Darlie was?
19
20 THE TRANSLATOR: Excuse me? Could you
21 repeat that?
22
23 BY MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY:
24 Q. Was Darlie standing at the casket and
25 were people coming to the casket where Darlie was?
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5499

1 A. Yes.
2 Q. And how many people were coming to the
3 casket?
4 A. Very many.
5 Q. Where was Darin standing?
6
7 THE TRANSLATOR: Excuse me?
8
9 BY MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY:
10 Q. Where was Darin standing?
11 A. He was standing on the side a little
12 farther with other men.
13 Q. Okay. Who was at the casket when you
14 went up there?
15 A. Darlie.
16 Q. Who else?
17 A. There was some kind of men, the men
18 were sitting on the chair, Darlie was standing, and there
19 people were standing. And I was standing there to say I
20 was sorry.
21 Q. Okay. And were there a lot of
22 people -- then, were there people behind you in the line?
23 A. Yes, not so many, but they were.
24 Q. But they weren't waiting back, were
25 they, where everybody was coming up at once?
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5500

1 A. No, they were coming one by one.
2 Q. So how many people were standing at
3 the casket -- or at the casket, were these several men,
4 there was Darin, there was Darlie, there was you, and who
5 else?
6 THE TRANSLATOR: Sir, could you
7 repeat, but not so much? Okay?
8
9 BY MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY:
10 Q. The people that were at or close to
11 the casket were Darin and some men?
12 A. Darin wasn't by the casket. He was
13 farther on the side and Darlie was standing alone.
14 Q. Darlie was standing alone. No one was
15 holding her up, no one supporting her, no one standing
16 beside her?
17 A. No. Maybe somebody from her family
18 was there, but I was just paying attention to Darlie.
19 Q. Okay. So maybe somebody was standing
20 beside her?
21 A. When we were standing -- when I came,
22 we were standing, just two of us and nobody was by very
23 close.
24 Q. Okay. Did you speak to her in
25 English?
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5501

1
2 THE TRANSLATOR: Excuse me?
3
4 BY RICHARD C. MOSTY:
5 Q. Did you speak to her in English?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. In English, what did you say, exactly
8 your words?
9 A. In English?
10 Q. In English.
11 A. "Darlie, I am so sorry what happened."
12 Q. That is exactly what you said?
13 A. Yes. I say, "You have many problems,
14 and now very expensive funeral. You know I am very,
15 very, sorry." And she said --
16 Q. Now, but is that exactly what you
17 said?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. All right. Now, let's go back to
20 Polish. Your way of expressing your condolences to
21 Darlie was to say that it was a very expensive funeral?
22
23 THE TRANSLATOR: Sir, could you
24 repeat?
25
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5502

1 BY MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY:
2 Q. Your way of expressing your
3 condolences to Darlie was to say this is a very expensive
4 funeral?
5 A. No.
6 Q. Well, you made that statement, didn't
7 you, just a moment ago?
8 A. Because the day before she was telling
9 me that she didn't have money and that she needed ten
10 thousand dollars.
11 Q. I understand you said that. But that
12 is part of what you said, you said, "I'm sorry, this is
13 expensive."
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. Now, this morning that you went on
16 the -- what day was that that you described this incident
17 with Drake?
18 A. The 5th of June.
19 Q. How did you get to the Routier
20 residence?
21 A. My daughter brought me.
22 Q. Did she leave you off at the front
23 sidewalk?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. And is this the second time you had
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5503

1 been to the Routier residence?
2 A. No, one time I was there because -- I
3 was there four times. Because Darlie asked my daughter
4 to bring me to her house, and so I was in her house four
5 times.
6 Q. Four times all told?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. Correct?
9 A. Right.
10 Q. And the first two times were just
11 social visits?
12 A. We came there and they were just
13 cleaning, making bed.
14 Q. My question is: The two times -- you
15 worked two days; am I right?
16 A. Yes, two days I worked.
17 Q. And two times before that, you had
18 been there to visit?
19 A. I didn't go, they just asked me to go
20 there.
21 Q. My question is: How many times had
22 you ever walked inside the Routier house?
23 A. Four times.
24 Q. Okay. Two of them were the day you
25 worked there, right?
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5504

1 A. Yes.
2 Q. And the two other times was just to
3 visit, is that right?
4 A. Yes, I was accompanying my daughter.
5 Q. The first two times your daughter went
6 with you?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. And, the first day you worked your
9 daughter went with you, didn't she?
10 A. Yes, because she was picking up Darin
11 to his work.
12 Q. And she went up and she actually went
13 in the house with you?
14 A. She only entered and then soon after,
15 Darin went with her, left with her.
16 Q. Okay. So now on this fourth visit,
17 your daughter dropped you off at the sidewalk. The
18 fourth visit, the first time you had been to the house,
19 your daughter dropped you off at the sidewalk?
20 A. No, we entered the house.
21 Q. Your daughter entered the house with
22 you the fourth time?
23
24 THE TRANSLATOR: Sir, do you ask about
25 the fourth time?
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5505

1
2 BY MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY:
3 Q. The fourth time.
4 A. No.
5 Q. Okay. Your daughter on the fourth
6 visit, on the day you have described these instances with
7 Drake, that day your daughter let you off at the
8 sidewalk?
9 A. No, I just opened the door and I said
10 goodbye, and I entered the house and my daughter left.
11 Q. When you said goodbye, you left the
12 car and said goodbye to your daughter at the car?
13 A. By the door. My daughter didn't want
14 to enter, but my daughter wanted to be sure that I
15 entered house.
16 Q. Okay. So now --
17
18 THE TRANSLATOR: Excuse me. The lady
19 said the door, but she didn't say what kind of door. I
20 just repeat exactly what she says.
21
22 BY MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY:
23 Q. Are you testifying -- is your story
24 now that your daughter got out of her car and walked you
25 to the door?
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5506

1 A. No, she was in the car.
2 Q. Okay. Your daughter never got out of
3 the car?
4 A. No, she was in a hurry to open the
5 business.
6 Q. So you got out of the car at the
7 sidewalk and you walked up to this house by yourself?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. And you rang the doorbell?
10 A. The door was open.
11 Q. Standing open?
12 A. No, I opened it -- I opened the door
13 by the handle because my daughter told me about this.
14 Q. Did you knock?
15 A. No, because Darlie -- my daughter told
16 me that Darlie told her, just open the door by the handle
17 by itself.
18 Q. Oh, okay. So now the story is that
19 you had already been told just go on in the house?
20 A. Even Darlie told me just to enter the
21 house because the door will be open.
22 Q. When did she tell you that?
23 A. It was even when I came for the first
24 time.
25 Q. Okay. So this is the fourth time in
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5507

1 the house, you didn't knock, you didn't ring the
2 doorbell, you just walked in the house?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. Okay. And you walked in the -- what
5 room first?
6 A. Well, when I entered the house, just
7 nearby is a family room, a living room.
8 Q. Did you say when you walked in,
9 "Darlie, I'm here"?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. Where were you when you said that?
12 A. Just when I entered the house.
13 Q. Before you saw Darlie, you had called
14 out to her?
15 A. No, when I entered the room I said,
16 "Good morning."
17 Q. Well, so when you entered the entry
18 hall you said nothing?
19 A. I entered.
20 Q. Did you call out and say, "Darlie,
21 Mrs. Routier, I am here"?
22 A. Yes, when I was coming closer.
23 Q. But not until you saw her, you never
24 said anything?
25
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5508

1 THE COURT: You better let Sister
2 Krystyna get around there, where she can point to that
3 thing too.
4 MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY: Let me climb
5 back here. All right.
6 THE WITNESS: All right. I don't
7 remember very well, I usually do not enter a house if I
8 was not invited, but Darlie told me.
9
10 MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY:
11 Q. You had never entered the house
12 without knocking before, had you?
13 A. No, never. This morning I really
14 don't remember.
15 Q. When you walked up that entry hall,
16 you didn't say anything?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. Not until you got to this position?
19 A. Here, here.
20 Q. And Darlie was sitting in this chair?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. And Rebecca was sitting on what couch?
23 A. Here.
24 Q. Okay. How many pounds did Drake
25 weigh?
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5509

1 A. I don't know. He was very tiny.
2 Q. Very tiny?
3 A. Not very. No, he was not fat, he
4 wasn't skinny, just like a baby.
5 Q. Okay. And, where were Darlie's feet?
6 A. On the floor.
7 Q. On the floor?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. Was she sitting back?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. Okay. And the chair that she was
12 sitting in, is this chair here, ma'am?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. Okay. That is a low chair, isn't it?
15 A. It's normal.
16 Q. It's a thick chair, isn't it?
17 A. It's a thick chair that is standing in
18 the room.
19 Q. Okay. And, how was she sitting? Like
20 I am?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. That chair is lower than this chair,
23 isn't it?
24 A. I didn't measure it, so I don't know.
25 Q. It's the kind of chair you sink down
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5510

1 in, isn't it?
2
3 THE TRANSLATOR: Excuse me? Would you
4 repeat?
5
6 BY MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY:
7 Q. It's the kind of chair that you sink
8 down in?
9 A. No, but she didn't sink, the chair was
10 even.
11 Q. When you sit in that, do the cushions
12 go down when you sit in that chair?
13 A. Yes, with my weight for sure.
14 Q. Fair enough. And Rebecca is sitting
15 right in front of her?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. And you are sitting over there, you
18 are standing over there?
19 A. What are you asking?
20 Q. When you first talked to Darlie.
21 A. Darlie was sitting in the armchair.
22 And I was standing there.
23 Q. You were standing to Darlie's right?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. Okay. When you first said something
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5511

1 to her, how far away from her were you?
2 A. About so far as right now from me.
3 Q. Okay. As far as from me to this
4 table?
5 A. A little closer.
6 Q. Closer?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. About like this?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. You were standing on her side?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. And you said something to her?
13 A. Good morning.
14 Q. Okay. What is the second thing you
15 said to her?
16 A. Nothing, because I look around,
17 because I didn't see the baby.
18 Q. Okay. She had both feet on the
19 ground?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. Did she say good morning to you?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. Did Rebecca say anything to you, at
24 first?
25 A. I didn't say anything to Rebecca and
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5512

1 Rebecca didn't say anything to me.
2 Q. Okay. So then were you still this
3 close when you said, "Where is Drake?"
4 A. I don't know exactly about what date
5 you are asking about. The first day and about -- or the
6 second day?
7 Q. I'm asking about the day that you
8 walked in and asked about Drake. Where is the baby?
9 Which day was it?
10 A. Yes, that day I was standing in this
11 position so close as you just are showing now.
12 Q. And you could not see Drake?
13 A. No.
14 Q. You saw a bundle in Darlie's hands?
15 A. Cross my heart, yes.
16 Q. Where were Darlie's hands?
17 A. Like this.
18 Q. Like this?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. And you were standing this close and
21 you say you said, "Where is the baby," or did you say,
22 "Where is Drake"?
23 A. No, I said where is the baby.
24 Q. Where is the baby?
25 A. Yes.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5513

1 Q. And she did not respond?
2 A. No.
3 Q. And you said again, "Where is the
4 baby"?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. Did you say a third time, "Where is
7 the baby"?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. And after the first and the second
10 time, you got no response?
11 A. No.
12 Q. And you were standing right here the
13 whole time?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. You never moved?
16 A. No.
17 Q. And then after the third time, she
18 threw the baby?
19 A. No, Rebecca pointed her finger towards
20 Darlie's lap.
21 Q. Okay. What did you do when Rebecca
22 pointed her finger?
23 A. Because I saw that there was no
24 movement in this bundle so I just repeated twice, "Give
25 me the baby."
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5514

1 Q. So when Rebecca pointed, you knew that
2 was the baby in the bundle?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. So you said two times, "Give me the
5 baby"?
6 A. Three times.
7 Q. Three times? So first you said, three
8 times, "Where is the baby," and then you said, three
9 times, "Give me the baby"?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. And all the time you are standing
12 right here?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. And on the third time then, she throws
15 the baby?
16 A. No, I repeated, "Please, please give
17 me the baby."
18 Q. Okay. And she did, she threw the
19 baby?
20 A. Yes, she gave me baby in such a way
21 like was shown.
22 Q. Like I am showing?
23 A. No, you should get up because she got
24 up from the chair.
25 Q. Oh, she has this 18-pound baby in her
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5515

1 lap sitting like I am sitting?
2 A. She wasn't sitting in exactly the way
3 you are sitting now.
4 Q. Isn't this the position you told me to
5 get in?
6 A. No, like me, like you see me.
7 Q. Sitting straight up?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. But in this deep chair?
10 A. Yes, in a deep chair.
11 Q. And she stood up?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. And threw the baby?
14 A. You may -- I may say as though she
15 threw the baby because she was angry, because it look
16 like -- because I felt as though she was angry or
17 something.
18 Q. So you must have run around to get in
19 front of her?
20 A. No, she just got up from the chair,
21 and she came to me and gave me the baby.
22 Q. So she got up like this, came to you
23 and gave you the baby?
24 A. She gave me in such a way, as I told
25 you before, the baby was in a double blanket.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5516

1 Q. And you have already told us a number
2 of times today you all were within arm's length of each
3 other during this whole exchange?
4
5 THE TRANSLATOR: Excuse me?
6
7 BY MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY:
8 Q. You have already told us a number of
9 times that you and she were within arm's length of each
10 other during this entire exchange?
11
12 THE TRANSLATOR: Excuse me, sir, can
13 you repeat?
14
15 BY MR RICHARD C. MOSTY:
16 Q. You have already told us several times
17 that you were within arm's length of her every time you
18 asked her questions and when she gave you the baby?
19 A. I didn't know exactly, I don't -- how
20 should I know how far exactly I was.
21 Q. Well, Ms. Czaban, every time that you
22 and I have talked here, I have been this far from this
23 table. You moved me closer, didn't you?
24 A. I thought you were asking me about the
25 baby, not about how should you move that chair. How
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5517

1 should I tell you that you should move your chair closer
2 to the table?
3 Q. Didn't you tell me to move my chair
4 closer to the table?
5 A. No, I didn't say to move your chair.
6 I just wanted to say that it was closer.
7 Q. Okay. Then, you know that the baby
8 likes to sleep covered up, don't you?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. You knew that, everybody knew that,
11 didn't they?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. And when you laid the baby down on the
14 pillow on the floor, when you laid the baby down?
15 A. There wasn't a pillow.
16 Q. Was there a blanket?
17 A. The blanket that I had, I just put
18 together with the baby.
19 Q. Did you put it over the baby's head?
20 A. No.
21 Q. Did the baby pull it over his head?
22 A. No, I just put the blanket on the
23 floor. I just opened the blanket more.
24 Q. You didn't cover the baby?
25 A. No.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5518

1 Q. Now, then you say -- then what did you
2 do in your work day? After you laid the baby down, what
3 did you do?
4 A. I went to the laundry and I was
5 washing the rest of the clothing. I was doing the
6 laundry.
7 Q. Did the baby take a nap?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. How long?
10 A. I don't know. I only put the laundry
11 in the washing machine. I don't know. Maybe about 20
12 minutes, but I don't know about 20 minutes.
13 Q. Was it about 20 minutes later when you
14 went back and saw the baby walking by the glass table?
15 A. How -- in what way the baby was by the
16 glass table, I don't know.
17 Q. What time of day was it? How much
18 later was it?
19 A. It was soon after he fell asleep and
20 then got up.
21 Q. Do you know how long that was?
22 A. I started the laundry and I put into
23 the washing machine. And the machine started to work.
24 And I left the laundry.
25 And I was coming close to the chair.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5519

1 And then I saw the baby falling, falling down and how was
2 baby there, I don't know.
3 Q. Okay. This is after you have done the
4 laundry and you are coming from the utility -- or you
5 started the laundry?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. And you were coming into the living
8 room?
9 A. This way, I was walking.
10 Q. Why were you walking to the living
11 room?
12 A. Why? Because I was coming here and
13 then later I was dusting the fireplace.
14 Q. Okay. And where was Darlie?
15 A. Here.
16 Q. Still in the same chair?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. Where was Rebecca?
19 A. Here.
20 Q. And when you were -- at what point did
21 you see the baby falling?
22 A. Here.
23 Q. You were standing right there?
24 A. No, I was just approaching this place.
25 Q. Where was the baby?
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5520

1 A. Here.
2 Q. Which way was the baby falling?
3 A. On toward the table, it was falling
4 toward the edge of the glass table.
5 Q. And you were standing about here?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. Closer than my finger was.
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. So you were the one that was closest
10 to the baby, weren't you?
11 A. There was Darlie, there was Rebecca,
12 and I was there.
13 Q. Well, you have moved your finger back
14 now. Was it here or was it here?
15 A. No, because there is -- this is so
16 small and the room was bigger than this.
17 Q. And you were standing?
18 A. No, I was approaching and there is a
19 difference.
20 Q. You were on your feet, weren't you?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. And you say that you could get to the
23 baby the quickest?
24 A. I said that the baby was falling
25 toward the table and I moved very fast in order to catch
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5521

1 the baby.
2 Q. So that is the second time you had
3 seen the baby. And then the next time you saw the baby,
4 the baby was in the utility room?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. And where had the baby been in the
7 meantime?
8 A. I don't know, because there was Darlie
9 and Rebecca and I was doing what I was supposed to do.
10 Because Darlie said that Rebecca was a babysitter.
11 Q. Okay. And you were out in the garage?
12 A. Yes, because she asked me -- because
13 she asked me to do something with the garbage that was in
14 the garage.
15 Q. Had you gone out to the garage?
16 A. I entered the garage, I went through
17 the garage.
18 Q. Did you close the utility room behind
19 you?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. Okay. So you went out in the garage
22 and did whatever you were going to do?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. And you walked back in and you said
25 you almost stepped on the baby?
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5522

1 A. Yes.
2 Q. That utility room door opens into the
3 utility room, doesn't it?
4
5 THE TRANSLATOR: Excuse me, sir?
6 Could you repeat that?
7
8 BY MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY:
9 Q. The door opens into the utility room
10 doesn't it?
11 A. I have to see. There is the door, one
12 door, that through the door you can enter laundry or
13 garage, you just can pass by.
14 Q. So you opened this door. Where was
15 the baby?
16 A. Right here.
17 Q. And so when you opened the door, you
18 almost stepped on him?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. Okay. You had opened the door in like
21 that and you -- it was so close that you almost stepped
22 on the baby?
23 A. Yes, because I was carrying some kind
24 of laundry like stockings or something, and so I just did
25 not pay attention exactly.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5523

1 Q. Wait a minute. Why had you carried
2 the laundry out into the garage?
3 A. You would understand me wrong. I just
4 came from -- I just took from over there some kind of
5 dirty laundry.
6 Q. Oh, so you picked up some dirty
7 laundry out in the garage?
8 A. In the laundry there was dirty
9 clothes. And before Darlie was checking those clothes
10 because she was supposed to do garage sale. And there
11 was the laundry and the trash was over there and garbage
12 so I went to the garage too. So I picked up whatever was
13 dirty to wash.
14 Q. Okay. Picked it up with both hands?
15 A. No. I was just very -- I had very
16 little of something.
17 Q. Of the laundry you picked up in the
18 garage?
19 A. There was probably swimming suit of
20 the babies -- of the children.
21 Q. And then the fourth time you saw the
22 baby, he was in a highchair?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. And no one was around?
25 A. First was Darlie and Rebecca and they
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5524

1 were feeding the baby.
2 Q. Okay. Did you eat with them?
3 A. No. I was eating later, Darlie gave
4 me sandwich. And I wasn't eating there because Darlie
5 put the cake for me on the table.
6 Q. You saw the baby in the highchair
7 eating, I guess?
8 A. Yes, because when I folded the dry
9 clothes I brought back to the kitchen. And so when I was
10 passing by, I saw them both standing by the child.
11 Q. Okay. And then you went on about
12 doing your laundry?
13 A. What do you mean, laundry?
14 Q. Wash.
15 A. In this day I didn't have so much
16 laundry to do, so I was dusting.
17 Q. When the baby ate, where was the crib,
18 or the highchair?
19 A. There is a table, there is a table.
20 Q. Where was the high chair?
21 A. Here.
22 Q. Now, then you were working in the
23 utility room?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. And at some point Rebecca and Darlie
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5525

1 must have left this room?
2 A. I don't know when they left the room.
3 Q. But you were working all the time in
4 this utility room?
5 A. No. No. But at that time when the
6 child was in the highchair, I was folding down the drying
7 clothing.
8 Q. In this utility room?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. And you don't know when Darlie and
11 Rebecca left this room?
12 A. No, I don't know.
13 Q. How long were you in this utility
14 room?
15
16 THE TRANSLATOR: Excuse me? Would you
17 repeat?
18
19 BY MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY:
20 Q. How long were you in this utility
21 room?
22 A. There wasn't so much of laundry, so it
23 was about 15 minutes.
24 Q. Okay. And when you came out -- you
25 heard something while you were in there?
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5526

1 A. Cry of the baby.
2 Q. And you came out of the utility room?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. And was the highchair still in the
5 same place?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. And tell me: How was the baby's head
8 again?
9 A. If you will come closer to me, I will
10 show you.
11 Q. Reluctantly, yes.
12 A. Good. Please give me this baby. The
13 baby was sitting on the chair. And the baby slipped down
14 like this.
15 Q. What is under this chair? What is in
16 the bottom of this chair?
17 A. Probably there was a belt --
18 Q. Of course --
19 A. -- protecting the child.
20 Q. Of course, Drake was a lot bigger than
21 this doll, wasn't he?
22 A. Oh, yes, much bigger, yes.
23 Q. How had the baby gotten in the
24 highchair? You got any idea?
25
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5527

1 THE TRANSLATOR: Excuse me? Could you
2 repeat, sir?
3
4 BY MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY:
5 Q. Do you have any idea how the baby got
6 in the highchair?
7 A. They started to feed the baby. They
8 were giving food to the baby.
9 Q. You saw somebody put the baby in the
10 highchair?
11 A. Well, no, I didn't see.
12 Q. Did the baby have food on the tray
13 while the baby was eating?
14 A. They started to feed the baby, and I
15 saw this, but who put the baby in the highchair, I didn't
16 see.
17 Q. Was somebody feeding the baby?
18 A. At the beginning, I saw when they
19 started to feed the baby. And when I saw the cry of the
20 baby, and then I thought, there is so quiet, and only I
21 hear the baby and --
22
23 MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY: I'll object to
24 non-responsive, your Honor.
25 THE COURT: Well, we are dealing with
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5528

1 a translator. Just reask the question.
2
3 BY MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY:
4 Q. Ms. Czaban, I am focusing in on
5 particularly: Did you see someone feed the child?
6 A. I didn't see. I saw them both when
7 they were getting ready to feed the baby, but who was
8 feeding the baby, I didn't see.
9 Q. The baby couldn't feed himself?
10 A. No, they did not finish feeding the
11 baby and this surprised me.
12 Q. Oh, now you know from the utility room
13 that they didn't finish feeding the baby?
14 A. Yes, because when you start to feed a
15 7-month-old baby, then you have to finish feeding this
16 baby.
17 Q. Okay. Was there still food on -- when
18 you went and found the baby, was there still food on the
19 highchair?
20 A. It was spilt on the table.
21 Q. No food?
22 A. No, because it was spilt, the child
23 probably with its hand spilt on the table.
24 Q. So your story is, somebody fed the
25 baby, but they didn't finish?
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5529

1 A. Yes.
2 Q. And then they took the food away, but
3 left the baby there?
4 A. No. No, the food wasn't taken away.
5 The food was still there.
6 Q. Was there a baby jar on the table, on
7 the highchair?
8
9 THE TRANSLATOR: Excuse me, by jar, do
10 you mean a bottle?
11 MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY: Yes.
12 THE WITNESS: It was a food in the
13 bottle or something.
14
15 BY MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY:
16 Q. And that was still there when you
17 found the baby?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. Okay. So they didn't finish feeding
20 the baby, but they just left and left the food and left
21 the baby in the highchair?
22 A. Yes, and they went upstairs, yes.
23 Q. And then about 20 minutes later you
24 rescued the baby?
25 A. I don't know exactly if it was 20
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5530

1 minutes.
2 Q. So, if I understand it, you saw this
3 baby basically four times during the day?
4 A. Yes, in an accident.
5 Q. Okay. And these four crises, is that
6 the only time you saw this baby that day?
7 A. During this day, yes.
8 Q. Okay. All four times you saw the
9 baby, it was in some type of crisis?
10 A. No, I saw when Rebecca was carrying
11 the baby.
12 Q. Okay.
13
14 MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY: That's all I
15 have.
16 THE COURT: Anything else?
17 MR. TOBY L. SHOOK: No, sir.
18 THE COURT: Thank you. You may step
19 down. Watch you step, ma'am.
20 THE COURT: All right. Your next
21 witness?
22 MR. GREG DAVIS: Your Honor, and
23 ladies and gentlemen of the jury, at this time the State
24 of Texas will rest its case in chief in punishment.
25 THE COURT: All right. Ladies and
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5531

1 gentlemen, that's all the testimony you are going to be
2 hearing from the State in this phase of the trial.
3 If you will step -- we will take a
4 break now, a 15 minute break.
5 Be back at 2:45. Be ready to go,
6 please.
7 Thank you.
8
9 (Whereupon, a short
10 Recess was taken,
11 After which time,
12 The proceedings were
13 Resumed on the record,
14 In the presence and
15 Hearing of the defendant
16 And the jury, as follows:)
17
18 THE COURT: Are both sides ready to
19 bring the jury in and resume?
20 MR. GREG DAVIS: Yes, sir. The State
21 is ready.
22 MR. RICHARD MOSTY: Yes, sir.
23 THE COURT: We're ready. Bring the
24 jury in.
25
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5532

1 (Whereupon, the jury
2 Was returned to the
3 Courtroom, and the
4 Proceedings were
5 Resumed on the record,
6 In open court, in the
7 Presence and hearing
8 Of the defendant,
9 As follows:)
10
11 THE COURT: All right. Be seated,
12 please. Let the record reflect that all parties in the
13 trial are present and the jury is seated.
14 THE COURT: Mr. Mulder, are you ready
15 to go forward?
16 MR. DOUGLAS MULDER: Yes, sir, we are
17 ready.
18 THE COURT: All right. Call your
19 first witness, please.
20 If you will raise your right hand,
21 please.
22
23 (Whereupon, the witness
24 Was duly sworn by the
25 Court, to speak the truth,
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5533

1 The whole truth and
2 Nothing but the truth,
3 After which, the
4 Proceedings were
5 Resumed as follows:)
6
7 THE COURT: Do you solemnly swear or
8 affirm that the testimony you are about to give will be
9 the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so
10 help you God?
11 THE WITNESS: Yes.
12
13
14 Whereupon,
15
16
17 DANA LYN ROUTIER,
18
19 was called as a witness, for the defense, in Punishment,
20 having been first duly sworn by the Court to speak the
21 truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth,
22 testified in open court, as follows:
23
24 THE COURT: All right. If you will
25 have a seat right please.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5534

1 Go ahead, please, Mr. Mulder.
2 Now, will you please state your name
3 and spell your name for the court reporter.
4 THE WITNESS: Dana Lyn Routier, my
5 full name, spell it?
6 THE COURT: Yes, ma'am.
7 THE WITNESS: D-A-N-A, L-Y-N,
8 R-O-U-T-I-E-R.
9 THE COURT: All right. Thank you.
10
11 DIRECT EXAMINATION
12
13 BY MR. DOUGLAS MULDER:
14 Q. Dana, will you tell the jury where you
15 were born and raised?
16 A. I was born in Nashville, Tennessee.
17 And I was raised in Denver, Colorado until I was 15, and
18 then I moved to Lubbock, Texas, when I was 15.
19 Q. Okay. And, you have been called here
20 to testify, Dana, in regards to Darlie Routier. Do you
21 know her?
22 A. Yes, I do.
23 Q. Do you see her here on my immediate
24 left?
25 A. Yes, I do.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5535

1 Q. Okay. How did you first meet her?
2 A. We met in high school. When my sister
3 and I first moved to Lubbock, we went to school at
4 Monterey High School in Lubbock, Texas. And Darlie, I
5 believe, she was -- had already been attending Monterey
6 at that time. And her and I just got to be friends.
7 Q. Okay. And you had moved from out of
8 state and so had she?
9 A. Um-hum. (Witness nodding head
10 affirmatively.) Yes, sir.
11 Q. Okay. And had a close relationship,
12 got to know her well, did you?
13 A. Um-hum. (Witness nodding head
14 affirmatively.)
15 Q. And then, subsequently, y'all married
16 brothers, did you not?
17 A. Right. Well, we had kind of lost
18 track of each other because she had graduated from a
19 different high school. But when I started dating Deon,
20 my husband -- it was kind of a joke, or not a joke but it
21 was funny, because he had told me, "Well, guess who my
22 brother married," and I came over to the house and they
23 wouldn't tell me who she was and then they said Darlie,
24 and it seemed like we picked up where we left off, you
25 know, just immediately. It was good to be back in touch
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5536

1 with her. I don't know.
2 Q. Okay. When did you and Deon marry?
3 A. October 9th of 1993.
4 Q. Okay. And, did you live there in
5 Lubbock?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. Would you see Darlie and Darin
8 frequently?
9 A. Um-hum. (Witness nodding head
10 affirmatively.)
11 Q. How often would you see them?
12 A. Well, about every third week of the
13 month, about -- we would go at least once a month to
14 Dallas from Lubbock.
15 Q. When you did, would you stay with
16 them?
17 A. Um-hum. (Witness nodding head
18 affirmatively.)
19 Q. In Rowlett?
20 A. Um-hum. (Witness nodding head
21 affirmatively.)
22 Q. Be there for several days?
23 A. Well, we usually could just stay the
24 weekend because we were both in school and working.
25 Q. You were both attending Texas Tech?
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5537

1 A. Yes.
2 Q. I guess you got to know their children
3 well?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. Would you say that you were close to
6 Darlie and Darin and their three boys?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. Did you have occasion to see Darlie in
9 the company of her boys?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. And see how she treated her boys?
12 A. Yes, I did.
13 Q. On many occasions?
14 A. Um-hum. (Witness nodding head
15 affirmatively.)
16
17 THE COURT: Ma'am, could you say yes
18 or no?
19 THE WITNESS: Okay. Okay.
20
21 BY MR. DOUGLAS MULDER:
22 Q. Can you tell the jury how she treated
23 those youngsters?
24 A. She was -- when Deon and I first were
25 married, I didn't have any children. And -- but Darlie
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5538

1 had her two boys, and she was just such an example for
2 me.
3 I mean, it's the kind of mother that I
4 wanted to -- how I wanted to raise my children. She was
5 very giving and very loving and very kind with her time
6 and herself, and the things that she wanted to instill in
7 those children were very important to me.
8 Q. Did you ever see her have a violent
9 moment toward them?
10 A. Never, never.
11 Q. Did you ever see her do anything that
12 you thought was strange or unusual?
13 A. No.
14 Q. Would you talk with her frequently by
15 telephone?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. And when was your child born?
18 A. April 8th, 1994.
19 Q. A little boy or a little girl?
20 A. A little boy.
21 Q. Okay. Did you call on Darlie from
22 time to time as your first child was growing?
23 A. Yes, I did.
24 Q. And, why would you do that?
25 A. Well, because I was a first-time
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5539

1 mother, and Darlie had been, you know, had gone through
2 this twice with Devon and Damon, and because I felt so
3 comfortable talking with Darlie, and she was so
4 supportive with everything else.
5 And I knew, you know, I could go to
6 her about the things that I was panicked about as far as
7 being a first-time mother, like teething and bottles, and
8 you know, I panicked about everything being a first-time
9 mom, and Darlie was always real supportive.
10 And, you know, I admired her advice on
11 how she -- you know, the example. She was a very good
12 example for me and how -- what I wanted to instill with
13 my children.
14 Q. Did the boys ever visit you and Deon
15 in Lubbock?
16 A. Um-hum. (Witness nodding head
17 affirmatively.) They did.
18 Q. How long would they visit?
19 A. Well, they would go and stay with
20 grandmother and granddaddy which is Lenny and Sarilda
21 Routier. And they would come and stay with us, me and
22 uncle Deon, for a night, maybe a night at a time.
23 Q. Dana, did you ever see her strike her
24 children?
25 A. I did not, no.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5540

1 Q. Or punish them in anger or anything
2 like that?
3 A. No.
4 Q. When the children would visit you,
5 would she call and check on the children?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. Did she supervise the children when
8 they played out of the home in your presence?
9 A. Yes, yes.
10 Q. Was there anything that went on that
11 you thought was improper or inappropriate?
12 A. Never, no.
13 Q. Did she and Darin seem to be getting
14 along as husband and wife?
15 A. Well, sure, yes.
16 Q. Did you feel her relationship with her
17 children was in all ways normal, as far as you could see?
18 A. Yes, very normal.
19 Q. You felt like she loved her three
20 sons?
21 A. Absolutely.
22
23 MR. DOUGLAS MULDER: We will pass the
24 witness.
25
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5541

1 CROSS EXAMINATION
2
3 BY MR. GREG DAVIS:
4 Q. Mrs. Routier, do you know why the
5 defendant went to another school in Lubbock?
6 A. I believe it was a half-a-day work
7 program where it was work and school, but, no, I'm not
8 sure.
9 Q. Okay. Were you still talking with the
10 defendant in April and May of 1996?
11 A. Um-hum. (Witness nodding head
12 affirmatively.)
13 Q. Okay. In your discussions with her,
14 did you ever become aware that she was having problems
15 there in her home?
16 A. No.
17
18 MR. GREG DAVIS: No further questions.
19 THE COURT: You may step --
20 MR. DOUGLAS MULDER: Wait just a
21 moment, if I might.
22 THE COURT: Sure.
23
24
25
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5542

1 REDIRECT EXAMINATION
2
3 BY MR. DOUGLAS MULDER:
4 Q. When is the last time you had seen
5 Darlie before June the 6th, before this tragedy?
6 A. It was about a week and a half before.
7 Q. Tell the jury what happened.
8 A. We had gone, Deon and I took --
9 brought Dillon to Dallas and we stayed with them, which
10 was regular, I mean, we would do that quite often, we'd
11 come up and stay for the weekend. But that weekend we
12 had made plans to go to the Scarborough Fair because I
13 had never been.
14 And, Deon and Darlie and Darin wanted
15 to take me because I had never been, and they took me to
16 the State Fair for my first time so they wanted to take
17 me to the Scarborough Fair for my first time.
18 I mean, we just had the best time. We
19 had taken Dillon for that time that we had gone and we
20 were there for about half a day, and we were just, I mean
21 it was the best weekend, it was one of the best weekends
22 we got to spend with them, and you know, we had a
23 terrific time. And we really enjoyed ourselves and we --
24 it was the last weekend that we were there before this
25 happened.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5543

1 Q. Did they all appear to be getting
2 along normally?
3 A. Yes, yes.
4
5 MR. DOUGLAS MULDER: We will pass the
6 witness.
7 MR. GREG DAVIS: No questions.
8 THE COURT: Thank you, ma'am. Now,
9 ma'am, you must remain outside the Courtroom when you are
10 not testifying. Don't talk about your testimony with
11 anybody who has testified. In other words, don't compare
12 it.
13 You may talk to the attorneys for
14 either side. If someone tries to talk to you about your
15 testimony, tell the attorney for the side who called you.
16 Okay?
17 THE WITNESS: Okay. Can I take this
18 with me?
19 THE COURT: Yes, by all means. Watch
20 your step now going down.
21 THE WITNESS: All right.
22 THE COURT: Please raise your right
23 hand.
24
25 (Whereupon, the witness
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5544

1 Was duly sworn by the
2 Court, to speak the truth,
3 The whole truth and
4 Nothing but the truth,
5 After which, the
6 Proceedings were
7 Resumed as follows:)
8
9 THE COURT: Do you solemnly swear or
10 affirm that the testimony you are about to give will be
11 the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so
12 help you God?
13 THE WITNESS: I do.
14 THE COURT: All right. Have you ever
15 testified before?
16 THE WITNESS: Well, it's been a long
17 time.
18 THE COURT: Been a long time. Okay.
19 Well, just speak up loudly into that microphone. Speak
20 loud enough so the last two jurors can hear you. Okay?
21 THE WITNESS: Okay.
22 THE COURT: All right. Go ahead,
23 please.
24
25
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5545

1 Whereupon,
2
3 AMANDA GRAY,
4
5 was called as a witness, for the Defense, in Punishment,
6 having been first duly sworn by the Court to speak the
7 truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth,
8 testified in open court, as follows:
9
10 DIRECT EXAMINATION
11
12 BY MR. DOUGLAS MULDER:
13 Q. Would you tell the jury your name,
14 please?
15 A. Amanda Gray.
16
17 THE COURT: How do you spell your last
18 name?
19 THE WITNESS: G-R-A-Y.
20 THE COURT: Thank you.
21
22 BY MR. DOUGLAS MULDER:
23 Q. Where to you live, Ms. Gray?
24 A. McKinney, Texas.
25 Q. And how are you employed?
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5546

1 A. I'm a teacher.
2 Q. Where do you teach?
3 A. Anna, Texas.
4 Q. All right. And so the jury will have
5 some idea where that is, can you tell them where that is,
6 in proximity to Dallas and McKinney?
7 A. It's north of Dallas, and north of
8 McKinney. It's between McKinney and Sherman.
9 Q. Okay. And for how many years have you
10 taught school?
11 A. Eleven.
12 Q. What grade do you teach?
13 A. Sixth.
14 Q. Those children in the sixth grade are
15 what? Eleven or twelve years old, something like that?
16 A. Between 11 and 12.
17 Q. Okay. I guess, you, in your 11 years
18 as a teacher, have seen many, many children and many,
19 many parents with their children, I suspect?
20 A. Yes, I have.
21 Q. Okay. What is your relationship to
22 Darlie Routier?
23 A. I am her husband's cousin.
24 Q. How old were you when -- do you
25 remember back when Darin was born?
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5547

1 A. Yes.
2
3 THE COURT: You have to speak a little
4 louder, ma'am, so this lady over here can hear you.
5 Okay?
6 THE WITNESS: Okay. Is this okay?
7 THE COURT: Very good. Thank you.
8
9 BY MR. DOUGLAS MULDER:
10 Q. Would you say that you have had a
11 close relationship with Darin?
12 A. Yes, I do.
13 Q. Kind of -- how did you look upon
14 Darin?
15 A. Well, when he was born, I was 12. And
16 it was like somebody had given me my own little, living
17 baby to carry around and take care of, and I have always
18 kind of had that relationship with him.
19 Q. Have you maintained that relationship
20 with him throughout the years?
21 A. Yes, I have.
22 Q. Okay. And you have known Darlie, I
23 guess, since she and Darin started dating?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. She has become a member of y'all's
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5548

1 family, has she?
2 A. Yes, she has.
3 Q. And you love her in that way?
4 A. Yes, I do.
5 Q. Okay. Do your parents still live in
6 Lubbock?
7 A. Yes, sir.
8 Q. Do they have occasion to visit you?
9 A. Yes, sir.
10 Q. And when they do, do y'all always
11 visit the -- Darin and Darlie and the boys?
12 A. Yes, we do.
13 Q. Have you had many occasions, Ms. Gray,
14 to observe Darlie in the company of her children?
15 A. Yes, our family was the kind of family
16 that spends Christmas, Thanksgiving, we spent lots of
17 holidays altogether.
18 Q. What type of a mother was Darlie?
19 A. A very devoted, kind, concerned,
20 patient, a lot of patience with the boys.
21 Q. Can you picture in your mind her not
22 being a caring, devoted, very loving mother?
23 A. No, when I think of her, the memory --
24 all of the memories that come to me of her with the boys
25 are of loving, kind, caring, taking care of them, great
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5549

1 concern for them.
2 Q. Did you ever have occasion to ride
3 with the boys out to Lubbock?
4 A. Yes, Sarilda and I took them to
5 Lubbock one time.
6 Q. Can you tell us, did Darlie pack their
7 things?
8 A. Well, I was impressed by the fact that
9 she made each one of them a little lunch kit with -- each
10 one of them had his own little special snacks in the kit
11 and little toys, and she took a lot of care with each one
12 of them so they would be comfortable on the trip to
13 Lubbock.
14 Q. You thought she was a very caring
15 parent?
16 A. Yes, I did.
17 Q. You have seen situations no doubt
18 where the parents have acted like they didn't want the
19 children?
20 A. Yes, and you can usually tell by the
21 way the children act, too, if they don't have a caring
22 parent.
23 Q. You can tell that as a school teacher?
24 A. Yes, sir, I feel like I can.
25 Q. And you counsel with parents and
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5550

1 children alike in the school situation, do you not?
2 A. Yes, sir.
3 Q. Okay. What was Darlie's relationship
4 with her children?
5 A. Very, very caring with them, was
6 almost every time we got together, she would ask me
7 things as a teacher that I felt that she could do to --
8 when they started school, to help them, I told her she
9 needed to read to them as much as she could.
10 Damon had difficulty with his speech
11 and she asked my opinion about what I thought she should
12 do with that, and I said he needed to have his hearing
13 tested, and be tested for allergies; and what kind of
14 toys did I think would be good for them to have to give
15 them a head start before they went to school. Always a
16 lot of concern for them.
17 Q. Always was a very devoted and loving
18 mother?
19 A. I never saw anything but a loving and
20 devoted mother.
21
22 MR. DOUGLAS MULDER: We'll pass the
23 witness.
24 MR. GREG DAVIS: No questions.
25 THE COURT: Thank you, ma'am. Ma'am,
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5551

1 when you are not testifying, you have to remain outside
2 of the Courtroom. Don't talk about your testimony with
3 anybody who has testified. In other words, don't compare
4 it. You may talk to the attorneys for either side. If
5 someone tries to talk to you about your testimony, please
6 tell the attorney for the side who called you. Okay?
7 THE WITNESS: Okay.
8 THE COURT: Watch your step.
9 All right. Your next witness.
10 If you will raise your right hand,
11 please, ma'am.
12
13 (Whereupon, the witness
14 Was duly sworn by the
15 Court, to speak the truth,
16 The whole truth and
17 Nothing but the truth,
18 After which, the
19 Proceedings were
20 Resumed as follows:)
21
22 THE COURT: Do you solemnly swear or
23 affirm that the testimony you are about to give will be
24 the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so
25 help you God?
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5552

1 THE WITNESS: I do.
2 THE COURT: Just have a seat right
3 here, please, ma'am.
4 State your name and spell your name
5 for the court reporter, please.
6 THE WITNESS: Melanie, M-E-L-A-N-I-E,
7 Lynn, L-Y-N-N, Waits, W-A-I-T-S.
8 THE COURT: Mr. Glover.
9
10
11 Whereupon,
12 MELANIE LYNN WAITS,
13
14 was called as a witness, for the Defense, in Punishment,
15 having been first duly sworn by the Court to speak the
16 truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth,
17 testified in open court, as follows:
18
19 DIRECT EXAMINATION
20
21 BY MR. CURTIS GLOVER:
22 Q. Melanie, if you would tell the jury
23 where you live?
24 A. 1010 Sumner in Mesquite, Texas.
25
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5553

1 THE COURT: Ma'am, speak into the
2 microphone loudly enough so those two people can hear
3 you. Okay. Let's try it again.

4 THE WITNESS: 1010 Sumner in Mesquite,
5 Texas.
6 THE COURT: All right. That's good.
7
8 BY MR. CURTIS GLOVER:
9 Q. All right. Mesquite is a suburb of
10 Dallas, isn't it?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. And are you married?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. Do you have children?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. What kind of work do you do?
17 A. Sign, I work for a sign company.
18 Q. Work for a sign company. Is that in
19 Dallas or in Mesquite?
20 A. Dallas.
21 Q. Okay. And, how many kiddos do you
22 have?
23 A. Two.
24 Q. What are they, boys or girls?
25 A. I have a boy and a girl.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5554

1 Q. Their ages?
2 A. Six and three.
3 Q. Okay. And what does your husband do?
4 A. He also works with the sign company,
5 it's a family owned business.
6 Q. Okay. What do you do there at that
7 business?
8 A. I help dispatch cranes and also
9 invoice, that kind of thing.
10 Q. Okay. You create signs for businesses
11 there in Dallas; is that right?
12 A. That's correct.
13 Q. Okay. And you say it's family owned?
14 A. Yes, sir.
15 Q. I'll ask you, Melanie, if you know
16 Darlie Routier?
17 A. Yes, I do.
18 Q. How did you meet Darlie?
19 A. Through mutual friends.
20 Q. Okay. How long ago would that have
21 been?
22 A. About five years.
23 Q. Do you recall what occasioned y'all
24 meeting?
25 A. When we met?
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5555

1 Q. Yes. What was the circumstance of
2 your meeting, if you remember?
3 A. Yes. Our friends, our mutual friend
4 were moving away to Arizona and we had a -- like a going
5 away party with all of their friends there and that is
6 where we met.
7 Q. Were your husbands with you?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. Okay. I guess you met Darin at that
10 time?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. You all struck up a friendship?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. And what kind of interest did you have
15 together during the course of that friendship?
16 A. Our children, you know, we would call
17 and get together for birthday parties and send
18 invitations, that is kind of how we started our
19 friendship, going to each other's children's birthday
20 parties.
21 Q. Okay. Then you have had occasion, I
22 guess, to see her around her kiddos; is that right?
23 A. That's correct.
24 Q. Okay. Tell the jury, in your own
25 words, what kind of mother you think Darlie has been in
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5556

1 the past?
2 A. To me, she has been a very good
3 mother. Just being around her, she has acted the same as
4 I have, you know, with my children. We would go to these
5 parties, and everything we do is for our children.
6 Q. The parties that you're speaking of,
7 were these parties that always included the children?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. They weren't just adult parties, they
10 were adult as well as for the children?
11 A. Mostly the parties that we went to
12 were for the children.
13 Q. They weren't adult parties?
14 A. No, Chuck E. Cheese, that kind of
15 thing.
16 Q. Chuck E. Cheese is kind of a little
17 place where children can go and have their birthday
18 parties?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. And you, as parents, both took your
21 kids to those places; is that right?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. Okay. Did Darlie delight in her
24 children?
25 A. Yes.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5557

1 Q. How about Darin?
2 A. Oh, yes, both of them.
3 Q. Were they a good team with their
4 children?
5 A. Yes, they were.
6 Q. Okay. It has been indicated that
7 Darlie uses or has used on occasion bad language,
8 profanity or curse words in a public place. What do you
9 know about Darlie and any proclivity for doing that sort
10 of thing?
11 A. I have never heard Darlie use a cuss
12 word, not once have I ever in her company.
13 Q. Okay. Describe her personality, if
14 you will, what kind of person is she? Rude or --
15 A. No, she is very sweet.
16 Q. Have you had occasion to shop with
17 Darlie over the years?
18 A. Yes, I have.
19 Q. Okay. What would y'all do together?
20 A. We went Christmas shopping, we have
21 gone shopping for the children before. Most of the time
22 when I was out with her, we bought clothes for the kids,
23 things like that.
24 Q. Anything about her that was uppity
25 or --
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter

5558

1 A. No.
2 Q. Or thought she was better than other
3 people?
4 A. No, she is an easygoing, easy to like
5 person.
6 Q. Okay.
7
8 MR. CURTIS GLOVER: We will pass the
9 witness.
10
11 CROSS EXAMINATION
12
13 BY MR. GREG DAVIS:
14 Q. Ms. Waits, you mention these parties
15 that you attended with the defendant, were children
16 always there at these parties?
17 A. At the children's parties, yes.
18 Q. Were there other parties that you
19 attended with the defendant where no children were
20 present?
21 A. At New Year's parties.
22 Q. Did you have occasion to be with her
23 during the weekend of Mother's Day in '94 or '95?
24 A. Mother's Day?
25 Q. Mother's Day weekend.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5559

1 A. Yes.
2 Q. Okay. Which of those two years?
3 A. Both.
4 Q. Now, specifically, I'm talking about
5 the Saturday night before Mother's Day. Were you with
6 her on those occasions?
7 A. I believe so. I'm trying to remember
8 what day that was.
9 Q. Well, in 1994, there was a party over
10 there at 5801 Eagle Drive, was there not?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. And certainly no children were invited
13 to that party, were they?
14 A. No.
15 Q. Either of the defendant's two sisters
16 present at that house?
17 A. I don't recall either of them being
18 there.
19 Q. And in 1994, did someone come over
20 there to the house to provide entertainment?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. Who was that?
23 A. It was a male stripper.
24 Q. Do you remember what his name was?
25 A. No, sir.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5560

1 Q. Master Blaster?
2 A. It could have been. I honestly don't
3 remember.
4 Q. And that evening, did y'all rent a
5 limousine also?
6 A. Yes, we did.
7 Q. All of the girls then get in the
8 limousine and start riding around town after the party
9 had finished up there at the residence?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. In 1995, during that weekend, again,
12 going back to that Saturday night, did you and the
13 defendant and the defendant -- well, going back to 1994,
14 was Darlie Kee, the defendant's mother, present at that
15 party in 1994?
16 A. Yes, she was.
17 Q. In '95, again, you, the defendant, her
18 mother, also present, did y'all rent a room there at the
19 Anatole Hotel in Dallas?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. Who else was present at that party?
22 Who else was present with you in the room there?
23 A. I can't name everyone, but I can --
24 Q. Just as many as you can recall?
25 A. Michelle Ramasine (phonetic), Basia, I
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5561

1 don't know her last name, Basia's last name, Darlie Kee,
2 several of the women I had not met previously so I really
3 can't name them, you know.
4 Q. How about Dana or Danielle Stahl?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. And let's see, Dana would have been,
7 what, about 15?
8 A. I believe so.
9 Q. Okay.
10 A. I don't recall.
11 Q. Danielle, how old would she have been?
12 A. I don't know how old Danielle is now.
13 Q. Okay. And, that evening, y'all didn't
14 stay in the hotel room the whole night, did you?
15 A. No.
16 Q. Where did y'all go to celebrate that
17 night?
18 A. La Bare's.
19 Q. Okay. And La Bare's is what?
20 A. A gentlemen's -- or a ladies, where
21 ladies go where gentlemen strip.
22 Q. Strip club for women?
23 A. Yeah, it's the only one in Dallas.
24 Q. And, after you finished there, did you
25 stay the night there at the Anatole?
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5562

1 A. Yes.
2 Q. And I guess then, y'all wouldn't have
3 gotten back home until what, about noon on Mother's Day?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. And again, no children were invited to
6 that party, were they?
7 A. No.
8
9 MR. GREG DAVIS: That's all the
10 questions I have, Judge.
11 THE COURT: You may step down.
12
13 REDIRECT EXAMINATION
14
15 BY MR. CURTIS GLOVER:
16 Q. Melanie, that was just a bunch of
17 girls that got together and celebrated Mother's Day; is
18 that right?
19 A. Well, it was more or less a Mother's
20 Day Out, where once a year the women can get together,
21 and get away from everything once a year.
22 Q. Your husbands all knew where you were,
23 didn't they?
24 A. That's correct.
25 Q. Okay. You told your husband and it
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5563

1 was like a slumber party; is that right?
2 A. Yeah.
3 Q. But y'all went back to the hotel,
4 didn't you?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. Okay. Everybody spent the night
7 there?
8 A. Yes. We took a taxi back and forth.
9 Q. Okay. Did you find anything wrong
10 with that?
11 A. No. We all had a good time and made
12 sure that no one was driving. You know, we always made
13 sure we had transportation there and from, Darlie took
14 care of that.
15 Q. Okay. Thank you.
16
17 MR. CURTIS GLOVER: We have no more
18 questions.
19 MR. GREG DAVIS: No further questions,
20 your Honor.
21 THE COURT: Ma'am, you may step down.
22 Ma'am, when you are not testifying, you have to remain
23 outside of the Courtroom. Don't talk about your
24 testimony with anybody who has testified. Don't compare
25 it.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5564

1 You may talk to the attorneys for
2 either side. If someone tries to talk to you about your
3 testimony, please tell the attorney for the side who
4 called you. Okay? Watch your step going down, please.
5 Your next witness.
6 Will you raise your right hand,
7 please?
8
9 (Whereupon, the witness
10 Was duly sworn by the
11 Court, to speak the truth,
12 The whole truth and
13 Nothing but the truth,
14 After which, the
15 Proceedings were
16 Resumed as follows:)
17
18 THE COURT: Do you solemnly swear or
19 affirm that the testimony you are about to give will be
20 the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so
21 help you God?
22 THE WITNESS: I do.
23 THE COURT: Have a seat right here,
24 please. Is this the first time you have ever testified?
25 THE WITNESS: Yes.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5565

1 THE COURT: Okay. Just relax. Speak
2 loudly into this microphone here so both the lady and the
3 gentleman at the end can hear you. Okay?
4 THE WITNESS: Okay.
5 THE COURT: Please state your name and
6 spell your name for the court reporter.
7 THE WITNESS: Deon, D-E-O-N, Routier,
8 R-O-U-T-I-E-R.
9
10
11 Whereupon,
12
13 DEON ROUTIER,
14
15 was called as a witness, for the Defense, in Punishment,
16 having been first duly sworn by the Court to speak the
17 truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth,
18 testified in open court, as follows:
19
20 THE COURT: Mr. Mulder.
21 MR. DOUGLAS MULDER: Yes, sir.
22
23 DIRECT EXAMINATION
24
25 BY MR. DOUGLAS MULDER:
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5566

1 Q. Deon, tell the jury how old you are,
2 please?
3 A. I'm 26.
4 Q. Where were you born and raised?
5 A. Lubbock, Texas.
6 Q. Okay. You graduated from high school
7 there?
8 A. Yes, sir.
9 Q. You went on to Texas Tech, didn't you?
10 A. Yes, sir.
11 Q. Did you graduate from Texas Tech?
12 A. Yes, sir.
13 Q. What is your degree in?
14 A. I'm political science, pre-law and
15 telecommunications minor.
16 Q. Okay. How are you employed at this
17 time?
18 A. I'm an RF engineer, which is radio
19 frequency, for PageMart nationwide.
20 Q. Where do you and your wife live?
21 A. In Plano, Texas.
22 Q. And that is just north of Dallas,
23 isn't it?
24 A. Yes, sir.
25 Q. Okay. How long have you lived in the
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5567

1 Plano area?
2 A. Ever since this happened. We moved to
3 Dallas.
4 Q. Shortly thereafter?
5 A. Yes, sir.
6 Q. Okay. Are you and Darin close as
7 brothers?
8 A. Yes, sir.
9 Q. And are you and Darlie close as family
10 members?
11 A. Yes, sir.
12 Q. How often would you see -- before you
13 moved to the Dallas area from Lubbock, how often would
14 you see your brother and Darlie?
15 A. Probably on the average of once every
16 three weeks.
17 Q. And before you -- I guess, after you
18 married, you and your wife would make that trip to
19 Dallas?
20 A. Yes, sir.
21 Q. And before that, how often have you
22 made that trip?
23 A. Even before I was married, it would
24 probably be about every three to four weeks. Ever since
25 Darin moved to Dallas, I have gone to see him. He has
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5568

1 been there like eight or nine years.
2 Q. Okay. So ever since he moved to
3 Dallas some eight or nine years ago, you have visited him
4 on the average of once a month?
5 A. Yes, sir.
6 Q. Okay. You got to know your nephews
7 well, I guess?
8 A. Yes, sir.
9 Q. Did you have a -- what you consider, a
10 rather special relationship with Devon and Damon?
11 A. Yes, sir.
12 Q. Okay. And what -- tell the jury about
13 that relationship that you had with those two youngsters?
14 THE COURT: Do you need some time? Do
15 you want to step down for a minute, sir?
16 THE WITNESS: I'm okay.
17
18 BY MR. DOUGLAS MULDER:
19 Q. Did you love those children like they
20 were your own?
21 A. Yes, sir.
22 Q. Do you think Darlie is capable of
23 hurting them?
24 A. No, sir.
25 Q. Any question in your mind?
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5569

1 A. No, sir.
2 Q. And you love those children like you
3 love your own son?
4 A. Yes, sir.
5 Q. They were very close to you too,
6 weren't they?
7 A. Yes, they were.
8 Q. What type of mother was she, Deon?
9 A. She was a very devoted mother. She
10 did everything for those kids.
11 Q. You were in their home a weekend once
12 a month from the time they were born, weren't you?
13 A. Yes, sir.
14 Q. So you saw the -- any bad times along
15 with the good, I suspect, did you not?
16 A. Yes, sir.
17 Q. Did you ever see her do anything
18 violent toward the boys?
19 A. Never before.
20 Q. Did you ever do anything -- did you
21 ever see her do anything that you, in retrospect, maybe
22 thought was inappropriate?
23 A. No, sir.
24 Q. How would she correct the boys? I
25 mean as boys, and I'm sure everything wasn't hunky-dory
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5570

1 all the time, how would she correct the boys if it was
2 necessary to discipline them?
3 A. She always reasoned with them. She --
4
5 THE COURT: You have to raise your
6 voice, sir. They can not hear it.
7 THE WITNESS: She always reasoned with
8 them. She always talked it out and kept asking them over
9 and over, again and again. Sometimes I thought, you
10 know, too much because boys need a little more
11 discipline, but she never did. I never saw her spank
12 those kids one time.
13
14 BY MR. DOUGLAS MULDER:
15 Q. Was she very close to them and very
16 protective of them?
17 A. Always, always.
18 Q. You loved those two boys, didn't you?
19 A. Yes, sir, I did.
20 Q. And you still do?
21 A. I still do.
22
23 MR. DOUGLAS MULDER: We'll pass the
24 witness.
25 MR. GREG DAVIS: No questions.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5571

1 THE COURT: Thank you, sir. When you
2 are not testifying, you have to remain outside the
3 Courtroom. Don't talk about your testimony with anybody
4 that has testified. In other words, don't compare it.
5 You may talk to the attorneys for
6 either side. If someone tries to talk to you about your
7 testimony, please tell the attorney for the side who
8 called you.
9 You may step down. Thank you.
10 Your next witness.
11 MR. MULDER: Rebecca Neal.
12 THE COURT: Will you raise your right
13 hand, please, ma'am.
14
15 (Whereupon, the witness
16 Was duly sworn by the
17 Court, to speak the truth,
18 The whole truth and
19 Nothing but the truth,
20 After which, the
21 Proceedings were
22 Resumed as follows:)
23
24 THE COURT: Do you solemnly swear or
25 affirm that the testimony you are about to give will be
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5572

1 the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so
2 help you God?
3 THE WITNESS: Yes.
4 THE COURT: All right. Have a seat
5 right here, please. Is this your first time to testify?
6 THE WITNESS: Um-hum. (Witness
7 nodding head affirmatively.)
8 THE COURT: All right. First of all,
9 relax. Speak into this microphone loudly so the last
10 lady and gentleman can hear you. Okay?
11 THE WITNESS: Okay.
12
13
14 Whereupon,
15
16 REBECCA NEAL,
17
18 was called as a witness, for the Defense, in Punishment,
19 having been first duly sworn by the Court to speak the
20 truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth,
21 testified in open court, as follows:
22
23 THE COURT: Will you please state your
24 name and spell your name for the court reporter?
25 THE WITNESS: My last name too?
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5573

1 THE COURT: Oh, yes, your whole name.
2 THE WITNESS: Okay. Rebecca,
3 R-E-B-E-C-C-A, Neal, N-E-A-L.
4 THE COURT: Okay. Thank you.
5 Can you hear that?
6 You will have to raise your voice a
7 little bit more. Can you lean up into the microphone?
8 All right.
9 Go ahead, please.
10
11 DIRECT EXAMINATION
12
13 BY MR. RICHARD MOSTY:
14 Q. Rebecca, how old are you?
15 A. Twelve.
16 Q. All right. And you and I had an
17 opportunity to meet during lunch, didn't we?
18 A. Yes, sir.
19 Q. All right. And remember --
20
21 THE COURT: Mr. Mosty, I hate to
22 interrupt. They still cannot hear you. You are going to
23 have to speak loud. You will hear your voice echo, don't
24 worry about that.
25 MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY: Rebecca, can
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5574

1 you pull that microphone up?
2 THE COURT: Right up to you. There
3 you go. All right.
4
5 BY MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY:
6 Q. All right. You remember I told you to
7 just try to relax while you are here?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. All right. And you need to try to
10 answer out with a yes or a no or whatever the answer is,
11 rather than saying unh-uh and um-hum. Okay?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. Okay. And Rebecca, you understand the
14 difference between telling the truth and telling a lie?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. And, you know that you are sworn under
17 oath to tell the truth here before this jury today?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. All right. Now, Rebecca, you're in
20 what grade?
21 A. Sixth.
22 Q. And, where do you go to school?
23 A. Coyle Middle School.
24 Q. And Rebecca, who are your parents?
25 A. Karen Neal and Terry Neal.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5575

1 Q. Do you have any brothers and sisters?
2 A. Yes, I have one brother.
3 Q. All right. And, who lives in your
4 house with you?
5 A. My mom, my dad and my brother.
6 Q. Do you need a Kleenex?
7 A. Yes.
8
9 THE COURT: Is there another witness
10 you can put on?
11 MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY: Yes. Do you
12 want to call another witness?
13 THE COURT: Why don't you step down
14 for a minute and then we will have you come back. Okay?
15 All right.
16 MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY: Could I step
17 out and maybe visit with her and see if she can get her
18 composure.
19 THE COURT: That will be fine.
20 MR. DOUGLAS MULDER: Judge, why don't
21 we let her dad come in here and sit in the front row with
22 her or some place where she can see him.
23 THE COURT: That will be fine. If you
24 want him to testify, you can put him on first and then
25 put her on. Okay?
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5576

1 MR. DOUGLAS MULDER: I think it's
2 cumulative. If we can just have him sit in here, that's
3 fine.
4 THE COURT: Well, that will be fine.
5 Do both sides agree to that?
6 MR. GREG DAVIS: Yes, sir.
7 THE COURT: All right. Let's bring
8 the father in, if that will help. All right.
9 (Witness comes back into courtroom.)
10 THE COURT: How are you feeling?
11 THE WITNESS: Okay.
12 THE COURT: All right. Listen, you
13 just relax. Okay?
14 THE WITNESS: Okay.
15 THE COURT: Are you ready to go again?
16 THE WITNESS: Yes, sir.
17 THE COURT: Okay. Go ahead.
18
19 BY MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY:
20 Q. Rebecca, this is your dad sitting here
21 on the front row, is it?
22 A. Yes, sir.
23 Q. Rebecca, I know this is hard for you,
24 you were friends with Darlie?
25 A. Yes, sir.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5577

1 Q. And, since Darlie has been arrested,
2 have you ever seen her?
3 A. No, sir.
4 Q. Until just now when you took the
5 witness stand?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. And is that what got you upset?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. All right. And let me try to move
10 briefly through some of this. You live across the street
11 from the Routiers?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. And how was your relation with the
14 Routier family? How frequently would you go over there?
15 A. About every day.
16 Q. Okay. After school?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. If I understand, your parents both
19 work?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. How long do you think -- I think the
22 Routiers moved in there in '93. Did your relationship
23 build or have you been going over there pretty much all
24 the time?
25 A. About all the time.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5578

1 Q. Okay. And, you knew Devon and Damon,
2 of course?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. And did you play with them?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. At the Routiers' house?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. Were you welcome at the Routiers'
9 house?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. Were all of the neighborhood kids
12 welcome there?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. And what kind of relationship did
15 Darlie have with the neighborhood kids?
16 A. Pretty good.
17 Q. All right. And what kind of
18 relationship did you and Darlie have? What was that
19 like?
20 A. Well, like she was my mom.
21 Q. All right. Was it also like she was a
22 friend of yours?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. Did you value that relationship?
25 A. Yes.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5579

1 Q. Do you still value that relationship?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. And how did Darlie seem to get along
4 with her kids?
5 A. Oh, she got along with them pretty
6 good.
7 Q. Okay. As well as you and your mom get
8 along?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. Okay. And, did the kids appear happy?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. Did Devon and Damon have lots of
13 things, like Nintendos and games and TVs and those
14 things?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. And did you go over there and watch TV
17 and play games with them and things of that nature?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. Rebecca, did you play outside with the
20 boys?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. And was Darlie -- did Darlie know
23 where y'all were or was some adult watching y'all at all
24 times?
25 A. Yes.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5580

1 Q. And did you ride bikes with the boys
2 and things of that nature?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. Where did the boys usually ride their
5 bicycles?
6 A. Like in the driveway or on the
7 sidewalk.
8 Q. Okay. What about back in the alley
9 behind the house sometimes?
10 A. Yes, sometimes.
11 Q. Now, did you also have occasion to
12 help out with Darlie in looking after the kids?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. Did you help her sometimes looking out
15 with baby Drake?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. Did you have a good relationship with
18 Drake?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. And what would you do with Drake?
21 A. We would play with his toys.
22 Q. With him?
23 A. Um-hum. (Witness nodding head
24 affirmatively.) Yes.
25 Q. Did you -- was there always some adult
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5581

1 there when you were sort of looking after Drake?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. And, I guess you were sort of keeping
4 up with how Drake was doing?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. Now, I want to direct your attention
7 to June of last year. I guess you were out of school, I
8 guess for the summer?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. And during that period of time in the
11 summer, how much of the day, when you were out of school,
12 how much of the day would you spend over at the Routiers'
13 house?
14 A. About -- I don't know.
15 Q. Most of the day?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. Would you go over there pretty early
18 in the morning?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. Do your parents go to work real early?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. And I think maybe your mom said that
23 she got off work at something like 2:30 or 3:00.
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. Is that about right?
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5582

1 A. Yes.
2 Q. Now, do you remember meeting a lady
3 named Halina?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. On how many days did you meet Halina?
6 A. About two.
7 Q. And would that have been right before
8 this tragedy occurred?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. Now, at that time do you remember
11 anything about Drake or how he was progressing as a young
12 boy?
13 A. Well, what do you mean?
14 Q. Well, for instance, was he walking by
15 then?
16 A. Well, you had to hold on to his hands.
17 Q. He was trying to walk?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. And was he crawling around on floors
20 and moving around some?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. Okay. What about teeth, was he?
23 A. He was getting teeth.
24 Q. Okay. And as a young girl, were you
25 sort of paying attention to this young baby?
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5583

1 A. Yes.
2 Q. Have you ever been around any little
3 babies before?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. Now, Rebecca, is there anything that
6 you remember about Drake in terms of how he liked to lie
7 and how he liked to sleep?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. What was that?
10 A. He always liked a pillow -- I mean, a
11 blanket over his head.
12 Q. Is that as long as you remember, he
13 liked to have a blanket over his head?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. Now, do you remember the first day
16 that Halina ever came to the house, just in general?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. And were you there most of that day?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. Now, I want to turn to the second day
21 that Halina came to the house. Were you also there at
22 that time?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. Were you there most of that day?
25 A. Yes.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5584

1 Q. Were you there when there was an
2 incident of Halina asking, where is the baby?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. Where -- when that happened, what were
5 you doing?
6 A. Can you repeat that, please?
7 Q. When that happened, right before
8 Halina asked, where is the baby, where were you?
9 A. I was downstairs on the couch.
10 Q. Okay. And where was Darlie?
11 A. She was sitting next to me.
12 Q. On the couch?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. And what were y'all doing?
15 A. We were looking at a photo album.
16 Q. Okay. And were y'all talking?
17 A. Yes, we were laughing.
18 Q. You were laughing?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. Were you looking at some photographs
21 there?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. Where was Drake?
24 A. He was laying down on the floor on his
25 pillow.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5585

1 Q. Okay. Sort of in front of the TV?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. Okay. And he was on a pillow?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. Was he covered up?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. Had the blanket all the way over his
8 head?
9 A. It wasn't all the way over his head.
10 It was partly over his head.
11 Q. Okay. And do you remember Halina
12 saying something like, "Where is the baby"?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. Was it obvious where Drake was?
15 A. Well --
16 Q. Was he in the middle of the floor?
17 A. Yeah.
18 Q. Okay. And, when Halina first said
19 that, do you remember even hearing about it? I mean, did
20 you hear it, did you understand what she said at first?
21 A. No.
22 Q. Did you or Darlie respond while you
23 were there laughing?
24 A. No, because we didn't hear her.
25 Q. Okay. And then, what did Halina do?
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5586

1 A. She started looking under the couch.
2 Q. For?
3 A. The baby.
4 Q. Okay. And, did that sort of strike
5 you as funny?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. Okay. Did you laugh?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. A little bit?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. And was Drake out in the middle of the
12 room?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. Was anybody holding him?
15 A. Well --
16 Q. What was he doing?
17 A. He was still sleeping and then Halina
18 finally found him and she picked him up.
19 Q. Did she appear sort of upset with
20 y'all?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. Did you intend to laugh at Halina?
23 A. No.
24 Q. Do you recall anything else that day,
25 that second day of Halina saying, "Come get this baby out
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5587

1 of the highchair," or calling you upstairs to come down
2 and get baby Drake?
3 A. No.
4 Q. Okay.
5
6 MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY: I think that's
7 all I have, your Honor.
8 MR. GREG DAVIS: No questions.
9 THE COURT: Ma'am, you may step down
10 now. I have to give you one warning. When you are not
11 testifying, please remain outside the Courtroom. Don't
12 talk with anybody about your testimony. If somebody
13 tries to talk to you, please tell Mr. Mosty or Mr.
14 Mulder. Will that be fair enough?
15 THE WITNESS: Yes.
16 THE COURT: Okay. Thank you. Be
17 careful stepping down, please.
18 MR. DOUGLAS MULDER: We call Darin
19 Routier.
20 THE COURT: If you will have a seat
21 here, please, sir. Please state your name.
22 THE WITNESS: Darin Eugene Routier.
23 THE COURT: You are the same Darin
24 Routier who has testified earlier in this case?

25 THE WITNESS: Yes, sir, I am.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5588

1 THE COURT: You are reminded that you
2 are still under oath.
3 Go ahead, please, Mr. Mulder.
4
5
6 Whereupon,
7
8 DARIN EUGENE ROUTIER,
9
10 was called as a witness, for the Defense, in Punishment,
11 having been previously duly sworn to speak the truth, the
12 whole truth, and nothing but the truth, testified in open
13 court, as follows:
14
15 DIRECT EXAMINATION
16
17 BY MR. DOUGLAS MULDER:
18 Q. Yes, Darin, let me direct your
19 attention back to June the 17th of 1996. And I'll ask
20 you if that is the day that your house was released back
21 to you and Darlie?
22 A. Yes, sir, it was.
23 Q. Okay. And from the 6th of June until
24 the 17th of June, you had not been permitted to go into
25 your house, had you?
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5589

1 A. No, sir, we had not.
2 Q. Okay. And, I'll ask you if you and
3 Darlie had occasion to go to 5801 Eagle Drive, your
4 residence there, in the company of Detective Patterson
5 and Detective Frosch?
6 A. Yes, sir, we did.
7 Q. Okay. And did you also have a psychic
8 with you at that time?
9 A. Yes, sir, we did.
10 Q. About how much -- did you all do a
11 walk-through of the house and Darlie explained to
12 Patterson and Frosch in person as to what happened and
13 where it was and this and that?
14 A. Yes, sir.
15 Q. Okay. And, I'll ask you if the
16 psychic was there as well?
17 A. Yes, sir, she was.
18 Q. Okay. About how long were you in the
19 house?
20 A. Couple of hours.
21 Q. Okay. And, from what time to what
22 time, as best you recall?
23 A. It seemed like it was dark, probably
24 7:30 or eight-ish. Frosch and Patterson didn't stick
25 around very long.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5590

1 Q. Okay. And when you left, I guess you
2 were staying at that time out in Plano?
3 A. Yes, sir. We never went back to the
4 residence to stay
5 Q. Pardon?
6 A. We never went back to the residence to
7 stay.
8 Q. Okay. Did Darlie ever go back to the
9 residence, period, after the 17th?
10 A. No, sir, she didn't.
11 Q. She was arrested the 18th?
12 A. Yes, sir.
13 Q. You have a neighbor across the street,
14 a Ms. Nelda Watts?
15 A. Yes, sir.
16 Q. About how long have the Watts lived
17 there?
18 A. I don't know, seemed like it was a
19 couple of -- two summers ago.
20 Q. Okay. Have you ever met her?
21 A. No, sir, I haven't.
22 Q. Have you met him?
23 A. No, sir.
24 Q. Do you know if Darlie has met them?
25 A. I don't believe she has. They weren't
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5591

1 very social.
2 Q. All right. Stayed to themselves, did
3 they?
4 A. Yes, sir.
5 Q. In the house primarily?
6 A. Yes, sir.
7 Q. All right. Did you have an occasion
8 to return to your residence on the 18th?
9 A. Yes, sir, we did.
10 Q. And who was there and what was your
11 purpose in returning?
12 A. Dana Stahl went with me. We met
13 the -- an insurance agent at the house around 10 or 10:30
14 in the morning.
15 Q. Okay. Dana Stahl would be Darlie's
16 younger sister?
17 A. Yes, sir.
18 Q. And she is 16 or 17 years old now,
19 something like that?
20 A. Yes, sir.
21 Q. Okay. About the same size as Darlie?
22 A. Yes, sir.
23 Q. Okay. Did you wait out in the front
24 yard for the insurance adjustor?
25 A. Yes, sir, we did.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5592

1 Q. Okay. And while you were there, did
2 you have occasion to do any cleaning up or picking up?
3 A. Yes, sir. There was just, oh, I guess
4 there was probably 40 or 50 flowers that were around the
5 fountain.
6 Q. You are talking about wreaths, and
7 bouquets, and things like that?
8 A. Wreaths and bouquets and great, big,
9 huge things of -- and we decided to just go ahead and
10 just go ahead and clean up all the ones that were all
11 dried up and dead. And so I went around the back and I
12 got one of the little pull-cart dumpsters and we brought
13 it around. We were picking all the little stuff off of
14 them, all the little signs and stuffed animals and things
15 like that.
16 Q. And you saved those?
17 A. Yes, sir. I still have them.
18 Q. All right. And, the remainder of the
19 things were hauled around in back?
20 A. Yes, sir.
21 Q. For trash removal?
22 A. Yes, sir.
23 Q. Approximately how much damage was done
24 to your residence?
25 A. Between 15 to 18 thousand.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5593

1 Q. You have not been reimbursed for that,
2 have you?
3 A. No, sir, I lost the house.
4 Q. Now, Darin, have you met a young lady,
5 approximately 31 or 30 or 31 years of age, named Kay Lynn
6 Norris who works at American Pawn?
7 A. No, I don't recall her.
8 Q. Is she here? A dark-haired, young
9 lady with long hair, worked in the jewelry department of
10 American Pawn?
11 A. If I saw her, I would probably know
12 her.
13 Q. Okay. What is American Pawn? Is this
14 your typical pawn shop?
15 A. No, sir. This pawn shop is probably
16 the size of the HEB over there. I mean, it's a monster.
17 They sell airplanes and everything in there, boats. It's
18 a great big, huge pawn shop. They said it's one of the
19 largest in the nation.
20 Q. Okay. Have you had occasion to go up
21 there from time to time?
22 A. Yes, sir.
23 Q. About how many times have you and --
24 how many times have you been there?
25 A. Oh, I have probably been there 15 or
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5594

1 20 times.
2 Q. How many times have you and Darlie
3 been there?
4 A. Probably about the same.
5 Q. Was she usually with you when you
6 would --
7 A. Yes, sometimes we would go for lunch
8 or something, and just, you know, kind of go by there and
9 see what they have got. I mean, it's kind of interesting
10 because they have always got new stuff in there.
11 Q. Who would you deal with there?
12 A. A man named Dan. Actually Dan would
13 call us at the office and have us come up there if they
14 had something that was just spectacular, a really good
15 deal.
16 Q. This was used jewelry, I assume?
17 A. Yes, sir.
18 Q. Okay. And if he thought he had
19 something that y'all liked or would like, he would call
20 you and you would come over?
21 A. Yes, sir.
22 Q. These are not really expensive pieces,
23 are they?
24 A. No, just, you know, a couple hundred
25 dollars.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5595

1 Q. Okay. So --
2 A. Just kind of an investment. We just,
3 you know, always liked jewelry so we'd just, you know,
4 pick up something here and there.
5 Q. Okay. Do you remember any occasion
6 when Darlie would snatch the jewelry out of the
7 saleswoman's hand and look at it and if she didn't like
8 it, throw it back at her?
9 A. No, sir.
10 Q. I mean is that --
11 A. That is not even in Darlie's
12 character.
13 Q. It doesn't sound like anything she
14 would do?
15 A. No, sir. I was there every time, I
16 think I would have remembered that.
17 Q. I mean, there would be no reason in
18 doing something like that, would there?
19 A. Not with a place full of guns like
20 that.
21 Q. Do you ever recall being in there with
22 the children?
23 A. We did take them I think once, yeah.
24 Q. Okay. Was there any fuss with them or
25 any problems with the children?
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5596

1 A. I just remember one time we were in
2 there, and there was all kinds of big stuff for them to
3 play with in there.
4 Q. Airplanes?
5 A. Well, they had like this kind of,
6 looks like an airplane, boat-type of thing that floats on
7 the air, and they have great big, huge toys, you know, in
8 there to play on, and I had to kind of get on to them a
9 little bit and tell them to get off of it because they
10 had signs written all over them saying, "Do not climb on
11 them. Do not get on them."
12 Q. Did you ever hear Darlie yell at the
13 boys, "Get your asses over there"?
14 A. No, sir, she doesn't use that kind of
15 language.
16 Q. Darin, do you know a lady by the name
17 of Eileen Schirmer?
18 A. Yes, sir.
19 Q. And, how do you know her?
20 A. She lives a couple of blocks away from
21 us and she also has -- they have a business that is right
22 around the corner from ours.
23 Q. Okay. Is it related to yours, same
24 type of business?
25 A. They are the beginning process. They
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5597

1 are designers. And then actually, they are the beginning
2 and we're the end.
3 Q. Okay.
4 A. So there's a lot of -- there's
5 manufacturing in between the two of us.
6 Q. So y'all are friends and visited in
7 each other's homes?
8 A. They have only been over to our house
9 one time and I think we have been to their house one
10 time. They have kids about the same age as ours.
11 Q. Okay. They are not close friends?
12 A. No, sir.
13 Q. Have -- they have a boy about the
14 same -- right in between Damon and Devon?
15 A. Yes, sir.
16 Q. Okay. Do you know if your boys would
17 ride their bicycles over in the Schirmer neighborhood?
18 A. I don't think they would ride their
19 bikes that far, no.
20 Q. Okay. Did the Schirmer boy ever ride
21 his bicycle over in y'all's neighborhood?
22 A. I don't know. He seemed like a lot
23 littler. He didn't have a lot of the older boys and
24 stuff in the neighborhood to play around with. So I
25 don't really know. I think I have seen them around, but
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5598

1 just a couple times, usually with their mom or their dad.
2 Q. Okay.
3 A. They are very protective of their
4 kids.
5 Q. Did you -- were y'all protective of
6 yours?
7 A. Yes, very much so.
8 Q. Would you allow your boys to ride
9 their bicycles in the street?
10 A. No, never.
11 Q. Of course, you don't know whether they
12 did or not, do you?
13 A. Not exactly, no, sir.
14 Q. Well, I mean you weren't with them all
15 the time when they were riding their bicycles?
16 A. Well, right. But from the time they
17 were really little, they knew for a fact that they were
18 not going to ride in the street. They had to stay up on
19 the sidewalk.
20 Q. Did you -- were you trying to put in
21 speed bumps on that street?
22 A. Yes, sir, I was. And I was also
23 responsible for having the Children At Play signs put up
24 in the neighborhood.
25 Q. Okay. And what did you do with
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
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1 respect to where you parked your Pathfinder or Darlie's
2 car out in front?
3 A. That would keep people from going
4 around that corner going too fast. It would kind of slow
5 them down so they would have to be careful when they went
6 around that corner.
7 Q. How was that?
8 A. Well, just the way the corner is
9 designed, going around the outside. Sometimes people
10 would go 35 or 40 miles an hour going around that corner.
11 So with my truck there, it would make them slow down
12 because they knew that they couldn't see from one side of
13 the road to the other.
14 Q. Where did the insurance people come
15 from that were going to see your house on the 18th?
16 A. They came from Houston.
17 Q. Okay. Were they coming in specially
18 to make their inspection and make their estimate?
19 A. Yes, sir. I don't know exactly --
20 there was three of them. I don't know why they came from
21 Houston to do it, but they did. They sent some special
22 people in.
23 Q. Okay. Darin, directing your attention
24 to June the 5th of 1996 when you were -- you had
25 testified to this sometime back, days ago. When you were
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5600

1 working in the garage, did you all keep the door locked
2 from the garage to the utility room and from the utility
3 room to the garage?
4 A. No, I never locked that door.
5 Q. Okay. Perimeter, exterior doors were
6 locked?
7 A. Yes, sir.
8 Q. But not the door that led from the
9 utility room to the garage?
10 A. Yes, sir.
11 Q. Okay. As you know, the jury has found
12 Darlie guilty. And as part of our system, you have to
13 accept that. Do you understand that?
14 A. No, sir, I don't.
15 Q. Well, that is -- what I want to ask
16 you is simply this: Does this change your faith in your
17 wife? You have lost more than anyone in this situation,
18 haven't you?
19 A. Yes, sir, I have. I have lost
20 everything.
21 Q. Well, you have lost two sons and you
22 have lost a wife, haven't you?
23 A. Yes, sir, I have.
24 Q. Are you still as confident now as you
25 were back days ago, with respect to your faith in Darlie
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5601

1 and her inability to do anything like this?
2 A. Yes, sir.
3 Q. It hasn't shaken your faith?
4 A. No, sir, it has not changed one bit.
5
6 MR. DOUGLAS MULDER: We will pass the
7 witness.
8 MR. GREG DAVIS: No questions.
9 THE COURT: Thank you, sir. You may
10 step down.
11 Your next witness. All right.
12 Miss, if you'll have a seat right
13 here, please. Raise your right hand, please.
14
15 (Whereupon, the witness
16 Was duly sworn by the
17 Court, to speak the truth,
18 The whole truth and
19 Nothing but the truth,
20 After which, the
21 Proceedings were
22 Resumed as follows:)
23
24 THE COURT: Do you solemnly swear or
25 affirm that the testimony you are about to give will be
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5602

1 the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so
2 help you God?
3 THE WITNESS: I do.
4 THE COURT: Okay. If you will just
5 have a seat right up here, please, ma'am. All right.
6 And, just relax. If you will speak loudly into this
7 microphone so the last lady and gentleman can hear you.
8 Okay?
9 THE WITNESS: Okay.
10 THE COURT: All right. Go ahead,
11 please, Mr. Mulder. Excuse me, Mr. Douglass.
12
13
14 Whereupon,
15
16 DARLIE KEE,
17
18 was called as a witness, for the Defense, in Punishment,
19 having been first duly sworn by the Court to speak the
20 truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth,
21 testified in open court, as follows:
22
23 DIRECT EXAMINATION
24
25 BY MR. S. PRESTON DOUGLASS:
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5603

1 Q. Ms. Kee, would you please introduce
2 yourself to the jury and tell them who you are.
3 A. My name is Darlie Kee and I am the
4 mother of Darlie Lynn Routier.
5 Q. Where do you live now?
6 A. I live in Plano, Texas.
7 Q. How long have you lived in Plano?
8 A. Since 1993.
9 Q. What do you for a living?
10 A. I work as an executive assistant to a
11 VP at Ericsson Incorporated in Richardson.
12 Q. What kind of company is Ericsson?
13 A. Telecommunications. They build
14 switches for mobile phones.
15 Q. And how long have you worked for that
16 company?
17 A. Seven years.
18 Q. Is it safe to characterize your
19 position as a managerial or administrative position?
20 A. Like office management, yes.
21 Q. Okay. And, how long -- you use to
22 live in Lubbock; is that right?
23 A. That is correct.
24 Q. And prior to Lubbock, where did you
25 live?
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5604

1 A. Pennsylvania.
2 Q. And, coming from Pennsylvania to
3 Lubbock you brought Darlie with you; is that right?
4 A. That's correct.
5 Q. You have how many children?
6 A. I have three daughters. I have
7 Danielle Stahl who is 14 years old, and I have Dana Stahl
8 who will be 17 at the end of this month.
9 Q. Now, does Danielle live with you?
10 A. Yes, she does.
11 Q. Does Dana?
12 A. Yes, she does.
13 Q. Before we go any further, can you
14 describe first, Darlie, your daughter, for the jury.
15 A. Darlie is a very kind, sweet person.
16 She is a very good mother.
17 I am not judging you for what your
18 opinion is. I'm telling you, I know her better than
19 anybody else in this world.
20 I don't agree with your verdict and we
21 will continue to support her and fight her. We have not
22 chosen Darlie over these two little boys. They were my
23 grandbabies, Devon and Damon. I watched them being born,
24 along with Drake.
25 If I thought she was capable of doing
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5605

1 this --
2
3 MR. GREG DAVIS: I'm sorry. If we
4 could just have this as question and answer, please.
5 THE COURT: Ma'am, if you could please
6 just answer the questions, please?
7 THE WITNESS: Okay.
8
9 BY MR. S. PRESTON DOUGLASS:
10 Q. Darlie, you have believed in, and have
11 had faith and confidence in your daughter from the
12 beginning?
13 A. I do.
14 Q. And you understand, and you were in
15 the courtroom when the verdict was read, and you
16 understand that all we can do is move forward?
17 A. That is correct.
18 Q. And is your confidence, and your
19 faith, and your belief in Darlie, the same as it was
20 before Saturday?
21 A. Absolutely.
22 Q. Okay. Describe for the jury the
23 relationship between Dana and Danielle and Darlie.
24 A. She was almost like a second mother to
25 them because of the age difference. A lot of times when
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5606

1 I traveled in my business, they would go over to her
2 house, or I went to Sweden this year, so she came to my
3 house and stayed with Danielle even though Danielle is
4 14. She just felt like Danielle needed someone there
5 rather than take her out of school and down to the farm.
6 We have a farm also.
7 Q. So she was not only big sister, but
8 many times she was a stand-in mom, is that right?
9 A. Oh, yes, she was. A very good one.
10 She taught me to be a better grandmother. She really
11 did.
12 Q. What do you mean by that?
13 A. I just think that when they were
14 growing up, you know, I had to -- I was thinking more of
15 my career than I was of all this special moments that I
16 have been able to enjoy with them now, because Darlie
17 always took time with Devon and Damon and Drake. And she
18 would play with them, you know, and on the living room
19 floor, and cut out crafts and she did special things at
20 the school. She was kind to everybody. She is a very
21 good person.
22 Q. Was she devoted to her children?
23 A. Very much so. I have never seen her
24 harm the children ever.
25 Q. Did you ever see her use, what you
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5607

1 considered to be an inappropriate method or way to
2 discipline the children?
3 A. Never. Never.
4 Q. With respect to what lays before us in
5 the decision of this jury, you know it means the
6 difference between life in prison and execution. You're
7 aware of that?
8 A. Yes, I am.
9 Q. Do you have anything that you want to
10 say to the ladies and gentlemen of the jury as to that
11 issue?
12 A. From June 6th, this family has endured
13 hell on earth. It has been horrible. I don't think any
14 of you can imagine what we have been through. We have
15 not accepted the death of Devon and Damon nor what has
16 happened with Darlie.
17 We have to deal with that. I have two
18 other daughters out there that will be in counselling for
19 years over this. And I am asking you, if you have any
20 compassion, do not put her to death because she did not
21 do this.
22
23 MR. S. PRESTON DOUGLASS: Pass the
24 witness.
25 MR. GREG DAVIS: No questions.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5608

1 THE COURT: Thank you very much for
2 coming, ma'am. We appreciate it.
3 Ma'am, I need to tell you this. When
4 you are not testifying, please remain outside the
5 courtroom. Don't discuss your testimony with anybody who
6 has testified. In other words, don't compare it. You
7 may talk to the attorneys for either side. If someone
8 tries to talk to you about your testimony, please tell
9 the attorney for the side who called you.
10 THE WITNESS: Okay.
11 THE COURT: Your next witness.
12 MR. DOUGLAS MULDER: Judge, I missed a
13 point with Darin Routier. If you will send him back.
14 THE COURT: Happy to recall him.
15 Let's bring Mr. Routier back in, please.
16 In the meantime, we will take a 10
17 minute break.
18
19 (Whereupon, a short
20 recess was taken, after
21 which time, the
22 proceedings were
23 resumed in open court,
24 in the presence and
25 hearing of the
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5609

1 Defendant, being
2 represented by his
3 Attorney, as follows:)
4
5 THE COURT: All right. Everybody
6 ready?
7 MR. GREG DAVIS: Yes, sir, we are
8 ready.
9 MR. DOUGLAS MULDER: We are ready.
10 THE COURT: All right. Bring the jury
11 back in.
12
13 (Whereupon, the jury
14 Was returned to the
15 Courtroom, and the
16 Proceedings were
17 Resumed on the record,
18 In open court, in the
19 Presence and hearing
20 Of the defendant,
21 As follows:)
22
23 THE COURT: Let the record reflect
24 that all parties in the trial are present and the jury is
25 seated.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5610

1 Mr. Mulder.
2
3
4 Whereupon,
5
6 DARIN EUGENE ROUTIER,
7
8 was called as a witness, for the Defense, in Punishment,
9 having been previously duly sworn by the Court to speak
10 the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth,
11 testified in open court, as follows:
12
13 DIRECT EXAMINATION
14
15 BY MR. DOUGLAS MULDER:
16 Q. Darin, there was a situation that I
17 wanted to go into. You all had a fifth birthday party
18 for Devon and it was at a park. Do you recall that?
19 A. Yes, sir.
20 Q. Kind of a picnic buffet type of
21 situation?
22 A. Yes, sir.
23 Q. All right. Do you recall an instance
24 where he was -- Devon was squirting people or his mother
25 in particular?
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5611

1 A. He was squirting everybody.
2 Q. Was that a water gun that he had
3 gotten for his birthday or something?
4 A. Yes, sir.
5 Q. Tell us about that, if you would,
6 please.
7 A. Well, he had just gotten a water gun,
8 one of those great big, huge gushers that holds about a
9 gallon and a half of water and he was going around
10 squirting everybody and he didn't want anybody squirting
11 him or getting him wet or throwing balloons at him or
12 anything else.
13 We had, you know, water fights with
14 the balloons, and everybody had their bathing suits on
15 and we were just playing around.
16 Q. Okay. And was this all done in fun?
17 A. Yeah, it was all fun. I mean, that's
18 what the birthday party was for.
19 Q. All right. Did Darlie cut the cake?
20 A. Yes, she did.
21 Q. All right. Did she caution him about
22 squirting her and squirting the cake?
23 A. Yeah.
24 Q. Did he go ahead and squirt both Darlie
25 and the cake?
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5612

1 A. Yeah.
2 Q. What, if anything, happened?
3 A. She just grabbed a little piece of the
4 icing and smeared it on his face. That was it.
5 Q. I mean, was this a -- did anybody make
6 a big deal out of it?
7 A. No, it was actually pretty funny.
8 Ever since Devon was little, he hated having his hands
9 dirty, and he was probably the cleanest little boy I have
10 ever seen, but he hated being dirty and just to do that,
11 just kind of made him -- you know.
12 Q. Just smeared some icing on his face?
13 A. Smeared some icing on his face and on
14 his nose. It was no big deal.
15 Q. Now, let me ask you about taking
16 the -- is it Eileen?
17 A. Yeah.
18 Q. Eileen and her husband and their
19 children --
20 A. Right.
21 Q. -- out on your boat?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. Did you do that?
24 A. Yes, we did, one time.
25 Q. All right. What is your position with
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5613

1 respect to whether or not the kids would wear life
2 preservers?
3 A. Well, first all, Damon wouldn't even
4 get into a hot tub without a life jacket. He would wear
5 it into a bathtub if he could. So he was real --
6 scaredest (sic) little kid.
7 And, you know, the rule was is that if
8 they were above deck, because it had a lower deck to it
9 too, so if they were above deck, they would have to wear
10 their life jackets and if they were below deck, then they
11 didn't have to wear them. So, you know, they wore them
12 all around the dock or anywhere else that we would go.
13 And we would just keep a close eye on them.
14 Q. Was that a rule that you applied to
15 all children who were on the boat?
16 A. Yes, sir. And Eileen's kids, I had
17 life jackets there for them too on the boat. So they are
18 the big, orange kind, not the vest-kind like the boys
19 had, but we let them, you know, we strapped them into
20 their little life jackets.
21 Q. All right. And you looked after her
22 children as well as your own, didn't you?
23 A. Yes, sir, I am the captain.
24 Q. Okay. And she had her hands full
25 with -- I believe her husband was sick most of the time
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5614

1 on that deal, wasn't he?
2 A. Yes, he got seasick and I had to take
3 him in and they left early.
4
5 MR. DOUGLAS MULDER: I believe that's
6 all.
7 MR. GREG DAVIS: No questions.
8 THE COURT: Thank you, sir. You may
9 step down. Watch your step getting off there.
10 Your next witness.
11 If you will raise your right hand,
12 please.
13
14 (Whereupon, the witness
15 Was duly sworn by the
16 Court, to speak the truth,
17 The whole truth and
18 Nothing but the truth,
19 After which, the
20 Proceedings were
21 Resumed as follows:)
22
23 THE COURT: Do you solemnly swear or
24 affirm that the testimony you are about to give will be
25 the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5615

1 help you God?
2 THE WITNESS: I do.
3 THE COURT: Have a seat right here,
4 please. All right.
5
6
7 Whereupon,
8
9 KENNETH WAITS,
10
11 was called as a witness, for the Defense, in Punishment,
12 having been first duly sworn by the Court to speak the
13 truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth,
14 testified in open court, as follows:
15
16 THE COURT: All right. Please state
17 your name and spell your name for the court reporter.
18 THE WITNESS: Kenneth Waits,
19 K-E-N-N-E-T-H, W-A-I-T-S.
20 THE COURT: All right. Mr. Mulder or
21 Mr. Glover, excuse me. All right.
22
23 DIRECT EXAMINATION
24
25 BY MR. CURTIS GLOVER:
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5616

1 Q. Ken, you are Melanie's husband; is
2 that right?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. Melanie testified here before the jury
5 a little bit ago just to recall to them exactly what the
6 relationship is. You all live in Mesquite and you have a
7 sign business there in Dallas; is that right?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. Tell the jury how many children you
10 have.
11 A. Two.
12 Q. And they are what, boy and girl?
13 A. One girl, six, and one boy, three.
14 Q. Okay. You know Darlie Routier?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. Okay. Tell the jury again how it is
17 that you got acquainted with Darlie and her husband,
18 Darin.
19 A. Well, we first met them at a
20 going-away party for some mutual friends. We had not
21 known them until then.
22 Q. Okay. Did y'all then get to be social
23 friends after that time?
24 A. Yes, we did.
25 Q. Did you have occasion to meet their
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5617

1 two little boys, Devon and Damon?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. Tell the jury how you got to know the
4 two little boys.
5 A. Mostly through birthday parties for
6 their kids and our kids. That is when we were around
7 them the most, at the birthday parties for our kids.
8 Q. Okay. Actually, your wife and Darlie
9 became fairly close friends?
10 A. Yes, they did.
11 Q. You and Darin were friends, but not so
12 much as your wives?
13 A. No.
14 Q. They shopped together and this sort of
15 thing?
16 A. Yes, they did.
17 Q. Okay. Describe for the jury, if you
18 would, what you observed about Darlie Routier and her
19 relationship with her children and her family in general.
20 A. Seemed to be pretty normal
21 relationship with her family. I mean, they took the kids
22 to do a lot of things. I mean, they took their kids
23 everywhere. They took them all kinds of -- you know,
24 they were always with -- most of the time I was around
25 them was like at birthday parties and stuff, so it was
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5618

1 with the kids almost all the time when I saw them.
2 Q. Was their devotion to their children
3 so outstanding that it was a subject of remark on
4 occasion?
5 A. It seemed to me they really spoiled
6 the kids pretty much. They spent a lot of time and money
7 on the kids.
8 Q. I think you perhaps had an occasion to
9 give a surprise birthday party for Melanie?
10 A. Yes, I did.
11 Q. When was that?
12 A. It was June the 1st, Saturday before
13 the kids were killed.
14 Q. Okay. And, you just invited your
15 friends and your wife's friends?
16 A. Her friends and my friends. I even
17 talked to Darlie about bringing over something, a dish,
18 you know.
19 Q. Okay. Did Darlie and Darin come?
20 A. Yes, they did.
21 Q. Did they bring any of their children?
22 A. They just brought the baby, Drake.
23 Q. Okay. And why is that?
24 A. They didn't think that kids would be
25 there. They thought it was more of an adult party. And
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5619

1 of course, the baby was too young to leave with anybody.
2 Q. Okay. During the course of that
3 party, did you have occasion to notice anything about
4 Darlie as far as being concerned about the two boys at
5 home?
6 A. Yes, she called them a couple of times
7 that day. You know, she asked to use the phone. She
8 wanted to check on them, seemed like one of them may have
9 been sick or something, I don't remember why, but she
10 called a couple of times to check on both boys.
11 Q. Okay. Did they have occasion then to
12 leave the party early to go home?
13 A. They left. She said they had to leave
14 because the boys wanted them to come home, come get them.
15 Q. Were they at a babysitter?
16 A. Yes, they were.
17 Q. Okay. You know this jury has found
18 Darlie guilty of murdering those two boys?
19 A. Yes, I do.
20 Q. Can you accept that?
21 A. No, I sure can't.
22 Q. Okay. You think she's capable of
23 doing that?
24 A. No, sir. No way.
25 Q. I guess you know yourself well. You
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5620

1 are what age man?
2 A. Twenty-eight.
3 Q. Okay. Do you feel like you are a
4 judge of character?
5 A. Yes, I do.
6
7 MR. CURTIS GLOVER: Thank you. Pass
8 the witness.
9
10 CROSS EXAMINATION
11
12 BY MR. GREG DAVIS:
13 Q. Sir, if you are a judge of character,
14 what kind of person would kill these two children in cold
15 blood the way these two were killed?
16 A. It would be a pretty heartless person,
17 a pretty evil person, really, someone kind of out of
18 their mind.
19
20 MR. GREG DAVIS: No further questions.
21 THE COURT: You may step down, sir. I
22 need to warn you: When you are not testifying, you have
23 to remain outside the courtroom. Don't talk about your
24 testimony with anybody who has testified. In other
25 words, don't compare it.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5621

1 You may talk to the attorneys for
2 either side. If someone tries to talk to you about your
3 testimony, tell the attorney for the side who called you.
4 Okay?
5 THE WITNESS: Okay.
6 THE COURT: Good luck.
7 All right. Next witness, please. Ms.
8 Sarilda Routier. Have a seat, please.
9 You are the same Sarilda Routier that
10 testified earlier?
11 THE WITNESS: Yes, sir, I am.
12 THE COURT: You are reminded you are
13 still under oath, please, ma'am.
14 THE WITNESS: Okay.
15 THE COURT: Go ahead, please.
16
17
18 Whereupon,
19
20 SARILDA ROUTIER,
21
22 was called as a witness, for the Defense, in Punishment,
23 having been previously duly sworn by the Court to speak
24 the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth,
25 testified in open court, as follows:
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5622

1 DIRECT EXAMINATION
2
3 BY MR. S. PRESTON DOUGLASS:
4 Q. Sarilda, you testified earlier in the
5 trial, but just to remind everybody, in case there's --
6 it's been a little while, you are Darlie's mother-in-law?
7 A. Yes, I am Darlie's mother-in-law.
8 Q. And you are grandmother of Damon and
9 Devon?
10 A. Devon and Damon and Drake and Dillon.
11 Q. You testified earlier in this trial
12 that you believe very much in your daughter-in-law?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. That you believe in Darlie?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. And, the jury has found that -- her
17 guilty of killing your two grandchildren. I want to ask
18 you: Do you still maintain your confidence and your
19 belief and your faith in Darlie?
20 A. I most certainly do.
21 Q. You were in here when the verdict was
22 read?
23 A. Unfortunately, I was.
24 Q. And you understand that all that is
25 left now is to move on; is that right?
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5623

1 A. That's what I am told.
2 Q. You understand that the jury is faced
3 with the decision of Darlie Routier's life, between
4 execution and imprisonment for life.
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. Now, I want to ask you if you have any
7 thoughts you want to share with the jury?
8 A. Well, to be really truthful, I am
9 still in shock. I didn't prepare myself for that at all.
10 I don't know where we all were. But yes, I understand
11 that that's all over. I don't know how y'all came to
12 that decision. But I know it wasn't easy. I'm sure it
13 wasn't. I hope it wasn't easy.
14 But you know, of course, I don't have
15 to tell you this: I think you are wrong. But what I do
16 want to tell you is that, you know, you have made a
17 decision, and we all have to live with it. But there is
18 still another decision. For goodness sakes, if you make
19 the decision to put her to death, if something happens
20 and we finally find this man, or whoever did this, she
21 might could be gone. And then you will have to --
22
23 MR. GREG DAVIS: I'm sorry. Could we
24 please have this in a question and answer.
25 THE COURT: Sustained. Please, just
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5624

1 ask the -- let's ask in the question-and-answer form
2 please.
3 THE WITNESS: Well, my statement --
4 THE COURT: Well, wait a minute until
5 you are asked a question.
6 THE WITNESS: Okay. I'm sorry.
7
8 BY MR. S. PRESTON DOUGLASS:
9 Q. Sarilda, let me ask you this:
10 Obviously, you believe that it's important that Darlie's
11 life be spared?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. Okay. Tell the jury why you believe
14 that.
15 A. Well, for one thing is that, you know,
16 this decision wasn't just for Darlie against Darlie.
17 It's against all of us. Our whole family has been
18 through so much. I lost those two grandbabies, they will
19 never come back to me. Please, please, don't do any more
20 to us. I am just begging you, please. I mean, I have a
21 daughter that's under sedation. I have a husband that
22 may have a heart attack. They lost their home.
23 You don't know the hordes of people
24 that you are affecting. I know you made the decision the
25 best that you could, but you have a right to make this
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1 decision again. This is a new decision.
2 I mean, my goodness. I mean, dig down
3 deep in you somewhere and just don't make it any worse,
4 please. Please, don't make it any worse. Don't do any
5 more to us.
6 Q. Okay.
7
8 MR. S. PRESTON DOUGLASS: Sarilda,
9 thank you.
10 I'll pass the witness.
11 THE COURT: Mr. Davis.
12
13 CROSS EXAMINATION
14
15 BY MR. GREG DAVIS:
16 Q. Mrs. Routier, you remember in, I
17 believe it was December that you called me one day?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. Do you remember that conversation that
20 you told me?
21 A. I remember well.
22 Q. That if your daughter-in-law was
23 guilty of this offense?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. You thought she ought to die?
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1 A. I said, if she did it, but my
2 daughter-in-law didn't do it. You want to recall the
3 wording of that conversation.
4 Q. No, ma'am. Again, if she is guilty,
5 she ought to die?
6 A. If she did it, but she did not do it.
7
8 MR. GREG DAVIS: No further questions.
9 THE WITNESS: She most certainly did
10 not do it.
11 THE COURT: Thank you, ma'am. You may
12 step down.
13 Your next witness, please.
14 MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY: Your Honor, and
15 ladies and gentlemen of the jury, the defense rests.
16 MR. GREG DAVIS: State closes.
17 MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY: Defense closes.
18 THE COURT: All right. Ladies and
19 gentlemen of the jury, that is all the testimony you will
20 be hearing in this case. What has to happen now is I've
21 got to put together a Charge of the Court. We have it
22 done, and the lawyers are going to remain. We're going
23 to get that ironed out tonight.
24 So you will be recessed until 9:00
25 o'clock tomorrow morning, at which time you will hear
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1 arguments from both sides in this phase of the case. It
2 will be yours to decide.
3 Same instructions as always. Don't
4 discuss this among yourselves until all of you are
5 together, the Charge has been read, and you're back in
6 the jury room. Don't discuss this with anybody, don't
7 discuss this case with anybody else; do no investigation
8 on your own. You are going to decide this phase of the
9 trial like the other on the testimony you hear and
10 evidence you will receive in this courtroom.
11 Likewise, do not listen to any radio,
12 look at any TV or read any newspapers or any other
13 periodicals concerning this case until it's over.
14 We will see everybody here tomorrow
15 morning at 9:00 o'clock.
16 Wear the juror badges in the
17 courthouse area.
18 Thank you very much.
19
20 (Whereupon, the jury
21 Was excused from the
22 Courtroom, and the
23 Proceedings were held
24 In the presence of the
25 Defendant, with his
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1 Attorney, but outside
2 The presence of jury
3 As follows:)
4
5 THE COURT: Will the attorneys please
6 remain.
7
8
9 (Whereupon, the jury was
10 thereby excused for the
11 day, to return on the
12 next day, February 4, 1997,
13 at 9:00 A.M. at which
14 time the proceedings
15 were resumed.)
16
17 (These proceedings are continued to
18 the next volume in this cause.)
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
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1 CERTIFICATION PAGE
2 THE STATE OF TEXAS )
3 THE COUNTY OF DALLAS )
4 I, Sandra M. Halsey, was the Official Court
5 Reporter of Criminal District Court Number 3, of Dallas
6 County, Texas, do hereby certify that I reported in
7 Stenograph notes the foregoing proceedings, and that they
8 have been edited by me, or under my direction and the
9 foregoing transcript contains a full, true, complete and
10 accurate transcript of the proceedings held in this
11 matter, to the best of my knowledge.
12 I further certify that this transcript of the
13 proceedings truly and correctly reflects the exhibits, if
14 any, offered by the respective parties.
15 SUBSCRIBED AND SWORN TO, this _____ day of
16 ___________, 1998.
17 __________________________________
18 Sandra M. Day Halsey, CSR
19 Official Court Reporter
20 363RD Judicial District Court
21 Dallas County, Texas
22 Phone, (214) 653-5893
23
24 Cert. No. 308
25 Exp 12-31-98
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
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1 STATE OF TEXAS )
2 COUNTY OF DALLAS)
3
4 JUDGES CERTIFICATE
5
6
7
8 The above and foregoing transcript, as certified
9 by the Official Court Reporter, having been presented to
10 me, has been examined and is approved as a true and
11 correct transcript of the proceedings had in the
12 foregoing styled cause, and aforementioned cause number
13 of this case.
14
15
16
17
18
19 __________________________________
20 MARK TOLLE, JUDGE
21 Criminal District Court Number 3
22 Dallas County, Texas
23
24
25
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