Volume 48

1 IN THE CRIMINAL DISTRICT COURT NO. 3
2 DALLAS COUNTY, TEXAS
3
4
5
6 THE STATE OF TEXAS } NO. F-96-39973-J
7 VS: } & A-96-253
8 DARLIE LYNN ROUTIER } Kerr Co. Number
9
10
11
12
13 REPORTERS RECORD
14 JURY TRIAL
15 VOL. 48 OF 53 VOLS.
16 February 3, 1997
17 Monday
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5376

1 C A P T I O N
2
3
4 BE IT REMEMBERED THAT, on Monday, the 3rd day of
5 February, 1997, in the Criminal District Court Number 3
6 of Dallas County, Texas, the above-styled cause came on
7 for a jury trial before the Hon. Mark Tolle, Judge of the
8 Criminal District Court No. 3, of Dallas County, Texas,
9 with a jury, and the proceedings were held, in open
10 court, in the City of Kerrville, Kerr County Courthouse,
11 Kerr County, Texas, and the proceedings were had as
12 follows:
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
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1
2 A P P E A R A N C E S
3
4
5 HON. JOHN VANCE
6 Criminal District Attorney
7 Dallas County, Texas
8
9 BY: HON. GREG DAVIS
10 Assistant District Attorney
11 Dallas County, Texas
12
13 AND:
14 HON. TOBY SHOOK
15 Assistant District Attorney
16 Dallas County, Texas
17
18 AND:
19 HON. SHERRI WALLACE
20 Assistant District Attorney
21 Dallas County, Texas
22
23 APPEARING FOR THE STATE OF TEXAS
24
25
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
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1 ADDITIONAL APPEARANCES:
2
3 HON. DOUGLAS D. MULDER
4 Attorney at Law
5 2650 Maxus Energy Tower
6 717 N. Harwood
7 Dallas, TX 75201
8
9 AND: HON. CURTIS GLOVER
10 Attorney at Law
11 2650 Maxus Energy Tower
12 717 N. Harwood
13 Dallas, TX 75201
14
15 AND: HON. RICHARD C. MOSTY
16 Attorney at Law
17 Wallace, Mosty, Machann, Jackson & Williams
18 820 Main Street, Suite 200
19 Kerrville, TX 78028
20
21 AND: HON. S. PRESTON DOUGLASS, JR.
22 Attorney at Law
23 Wallace, Mosty, Machann, Jackson & Williams
24 820 Main Street, Suite 200
25 Kerrville, TX 78028
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1
2 AND: HON. JOHN HAGLER
3 Attorney at Law
4 901 Main Street, Suite 3601
5 Dallas, TX 75202
6 ALL ATTORNEYS REPRESENTING THE
7 DEFENDANT: DARLIE ROUTIER
8 MR. HAGLER HANDLING THE APPEAL
9 AND:
10 HON. ALBERT D. PATILLO, III
11 Attorney at Law
12 820 Main Street, Suite 211
13 Kerrville, TX 78028
14 APPEARING FOR: Witness-
15 Detective Jimmy Patterson
16 only on one date in trial
17 AND:
18 HON. STEVEN J. PICKELL
19 Attorney at Law
20 620 Earl Garrett Street
21 Kerrville, TX 78028
22 APPEARING FOR: Witness
23 Officer Chris Frosch
24 only on one date in trial
25
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
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1 P R O C E E D I N G S
2
3 February 3rd, 1997
4 Monday
5 9:00 a.m.
6
7 (Whereupon, the following
8 proceedings were held in
9 open court, in the presence
10 and hearing of the
11 defendant, being
12 represented by her attorneys
13 and the representatives of
14 the State of Texas, but
15 outside the presence of the
16 jury, as follows:)
17
18 THE COURT: All right. Let the record
19 reflect that these proceedings are being held outside the
20 presence of the jury.
21 These motions, the defense motions to
22 exclude evidence of unadjudicated extraneous offenses
23 during the punishment phase was denied.
24 MR. S. PRESTON DOUGLASS: Also, your
25 Honor, there is a previous motion filed to present
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1 evidence of a parole eligibility. It is my understanding
2 that that motion has been previously denied.
3 THE COURT: Okay. Parole eligibility,
4 that is denied. The one about they must consider
5 mitigating offenses was granted, and the Charge is
6 written that way. There is some motion in there about --
7 what was that motion in limine?
8 MR. S. PRESTON DOUGLASS: There was a
9 motion in limine regarding the State of Texas referring
10 to, either indirectly or directly, as to whether the
11 defendant would ever be eligible for parole.
12 Our position was, your Honor, that the
13 State should not be allowed to allude, in any fashion or
14 imply, that the defendant would be eligible for parole.
15 THE COURT: Well, that was denied too.
16 That motion was denied. And, I think the way the Charge
17 is written takes care of that.
18 MR. S. PRESTON DOUGLASS: The last one
19 was to declare 37.071, Section 2, unconstitutional in
20 that it does not allocate a burden of proof with respect
21 to that question.
22 THE COURT: That was denied. I'll let
23 that go to the Supreme Court.
24 MR. S. PRESTON DOUGLASS: There was a
25 previous motion regarding parties charge, but that is not
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1 going to be presented.
2 THE COURT: That is moot.
3 MR. S. PRESTON DOUGLASS: And that
4 left us with the motion to declare 37.071, Section 2,
5 E and F, as unconstitutional, because it does not require
6 that the jurors consider mitigation.
7 THE COURT: That was denied. And, I
8 think the Charge clearly -- makes it very clear that the
9 jurors will be considering mitigation.
10 MR. S. PRESTON DOUGLASS: Then there
11 was a motion to declare Texas capital sentencing scheme
12 unconstitutional, and the motion refers to the imposition
13 of the death penalty. There were numerous reasons,
14 mainly related to Penry and the -- _____
15 THE COURT: That was denied.
16 MR. S. PRESTON DOUGLASS: And the last
17 I have is four -- I believe it's four requested
18 punishment charges, which I have given Ruth and I can get
19 copies of them.
20 THE COURT: Sure. All right. Are
21 both sides ready?
22 MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY: Yes, sir.
23 MR. GREG DAVIS: Yes, sir.
24 THE COURT: All right. Bring the jury
25 in, please.
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1 (Whereupon, the jury
2 Was returned to the
3 Courtroom, and the
4 Proceedings were
5 Resumed on the record,
6 In open court, in the
7 Presence and hearing
8 Of the defendant,
9 As follows:)
10
11 THE COURT: Good morning, ladies and
12 gentlemen.
13 Let the record reflect that all
14 parties in the trial are present, and the jury is seated.
15 Is the State ready to go forward?
16 MR. GREG DAVIS: The State is ready,
17 your Honor.
18 THE COURT: All right. Is the defense
19 ready, Mr. Mulder?
20 MR. DOUGLAS MULDER: Yes, sir.
21 THE COURT: All right. If you will
22 call your first witness, please.
23 MR. GREG DAVIS: I will call Allison
24 Hennessey.
25 THE COURT: Ms. Hennessey, if you will
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1 raise your right hand, please.
2
3 (Whereupon, the witness
4 Was duly sworn by the
5 Court, to speak the truth,
6 The whole truth and
7 Nothing but the truth,
8 After which, the
9 Proceedings were
10 Resumed as follows:)
11
12 THE COURT: Do you solemnly swear or
13 affirm, that the testimony you are about to give, will be
14 the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so
15 help you God?
16 THE WITNESS: I do.
17 THE COURT: Just have a seat right
18 here, please. Is this the first time you have testified?
19 THE WITNESS: Yes.
20 THE COURT: Okay. Here's what you do.
21 Speak right into this microphone very loudly until you
22 hear your voice echo.
23 You want to make sure that the
24 gentleman down there in the corner can hear you. Okay?
25 And just listen to the questions. Now, they will object
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1 from time to time, and when they object, you stop. And I
2 will rule on it then, okay?
3 THE WITNESS: Yes, sir.
4 THE COURT: Go ahead. If you will
5 state your name and spell your name for the court
6 reporter, please.
7 THE WITNESS: Allison Hennessey,
8 A-L-L-I-S-O-N, H-E-N-N-E-S-S-E-Y.
9
10
11 Whereupon,
12
13 ALLISON HENNESSEY,
14
15 was called as a witness, for the State of Texas, in the
16 Punishment Phase, having been first duly sworn by the
17 Court, to speak the truth, the whole truth, and nothing
18 but the truth, was examined and testified in open court,
19 as follows:
20
21 DIRECT EXAMINATION
22
23 BY MR. GREG DAVIS:
24 Q. Allison, how old are you?
25 A. 18.
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1 Q. All right. Are you in high school at
2 this time?
3 A. I home school.
4 Q. Okay. And, what grade would you be
5 in?
6 A. Senior.
7 Q. Do you live in Rowlett at this time?
8 A. I do.
9 Q. Do you live with your mother?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. Allison, I want to ask you whether or
12 not you know the individual seated over here in the red
13 and white dress?
14 A. I do.
15 Q. Do you know her to be Darlie Lynn
16 Routier?
17 A. I do.
18
19 MR. GREG DAVIS: Your Honor, may the
20 record please reflect that this witness is identifying
21 the defendant in open court.
22 THE COURT: Yes, sir.
23
24 BY MR. GREG DAVIS:
25 Q. Allison, how long have you known the
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
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1 defendant?
2 A. Since 1994, I believe is when I met
3 her.
4 Q. Okay. How did you meet the defendant?
5 Did you meet her through one of your friends?
6 A. Yes, Renee Stanley. She is my best
7 friend, and I met her through her.
8 Q. Okay. And, Renee Stanley, was that a
9 friend in the neighborhood that you met?
10 A. Um-hum. (Witness nodding head
11 affirmatively.)
12 Q. When you met the defendant, was Renee
13 Stanley doing anything for the defendant?
14 A. She was the babysitter.
15 Q. And, how often would Renee Stanley
16 babysit for the defendant, if you know?
17 A. It was almost every weekend.
18 Q. Okay. Did you know why Renee was
19 babysitting every weekend; what the defendant was doing
20 that required a babysitter every weekend?
21 A. She would go out occasionally, but
22 mainly, I was told it was for auctions that she would go
23 to.
24 Q. What sort of auctions?
25 A. Antique auctions.
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1
2 MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY: Your Honor, we
3 object to what she was told.
4 THE COURT: Sustained.
5
6 BY MR. GREG DAVIS:
7 Q. And, during the time that you knew the
8 defendant, were there occasions when you would go over to
9 her house also?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. And, were there occasions when both
12 Renee Stanley and the defendant would be present at the
13 house when you were over there?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. Did you know Devon and Damon Routier?
16 A. Yes, I did.
17 Q. When you went over to the defendant's
18 house, and she was there, what were the boys usually
19 doing during the time periods that you were there?
20 A. They were usually playing outside.
21 Q. Okay. And would the defendant be
22 outside with them, or would she be inside with y'all?
23 A. Inside.
24 Q. And, generally, what was she doing
25 while her two sons were outside playing?
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1 A. Speaking with Renee, I usually was
2 quiet.
3 Q. Okay. And, when you say that the boys
4 were outside, can you give us an idea of the types of
5 things that you saw them doing when they were outside?
6 A. Running up the street, playing on the
7 fountain, playing with kids that lived in the
8 neighborhood.
9 Q. You say that they were climbing on the
10 fountain. Are you talking about the fountain in the
11 front yard?
12 A. Um-hum. (Witness nodding head
13 affirmatively.)
14
15 THE COURT: Ma'am, can you say yes or
16 no? We can't take down nods.
17 THE WITNESS: Yes, sir.
18
19 BY MR. GREG DAVIS:
20 Q. What were they doing, exactly?
21 A. Just climbing or running around
22 outside.
23 Q. Okay. Now, this would have been back
24 in what, 1994?
25 A. Um-hum. (Witness nodding head
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5390

1 affirmatively.)
2 Q. You need to say yes or no for the
3 court reporter, please.

4 A. Yes.
5 Q. Okay. And, how old were Devon and
6 Damon then when they were outside on their own?
7 A. Well, I believe three and probably
8 five.
9 Q. Okay. Now, Allison, let me ask you
10 whether or not you were ever over at the defendant's
11 house when Renee Stanley was babysitting for the
12 defendant?
13 A. Yes, almost every time.
14 Q. And, was there ever an occasion where
15 you saw the defendant go out and buy something for Renee?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. Can you tell us what that was?
18 A. Cigarettes.
19 Q. How old was Renee at the time?
20 A. Sixteen.
21 Q. And, exactly what happened when that
22 occurred? Just tell us how that came up, what you
23 remember happening.
24 A. About the cigarettes?
25 Q. Yes.
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1 A. That is where she got them from. That
2 is where she told me, and I have seen her give them to
3 her.
4
5 MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY: Object to what
6 someone told her.
7 THE COURT: Sustained. Ma'am, just
8 state precisely what you know yourself, not what somebody
9 else says to you.
10 Okay. Mr. Davis, rephrase your
11 question.
12 MR. GREG DAVIS: Yes, sir.
13
14 BY MR. GREG DAVIS:
15 Q. Did you ever see the defendant give
16 cigarettes to Renee?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. And at the time, how old was Renee?
19 A. Sixteen.
20 Q. Was there ever any occasion where you
21 saw the defendant give alcohol to Renee?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. Can you tell us about that, what you
24 saw?
25 A. She asked Darlie if she could have a
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
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1 Zima that was in the refrigerator, and Darlie said that
2 she could, and she got one and drank it.
3 Q. Were there other occasions when you
4 saw Renee drinking over there in the house when the
5 defendant wasn't there?
6 A. Yes, almost every time she babysat.
7 Q. Almost every time she babysat?
8 A. Um-hum. (Witness nodding head
9 affirmatively.)
10
11 THE COURT: Is that a yes, ma'am?
12 THE WITNESS: Yes.
13 THE COURT: Thank you.
14
15 BY MR. GREG DAVIS:
16 Q. At the time that the defendant gave or
17 allowed Renee to drink the Zima there in her house, how
18 old was Renee?
19 A. Sixteen.
20 Q. Allison, was there ever any occasion
21 when you saw the defendant give Renee marijuana inside
22 that house?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. Could you please tell us what you saw
25 that day?
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5393

1 A. We went over to her house and we were
2 talking to Darlie and she removed it from the cabinet
3 above her washer and dryer and gave it to her in a
4 ziplock bag in the entry.
5 Q. Okay. So, she got it from the utility
6 room; is that right?
7 A. Um-hum. (Witness nodding head
8 affirmatively.)
9 Q. That is a yes again?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. Okay. And, where was it that she
12 actually gave her the baggie of marijuana?
13 A. It was near the stairs and the
14 bathroom in the front of the house.
15 Q. Near the entry area?
16 A. Um-hum. (Witness nodding head
17 affirmatively.)
18
19 THE COURT: Is that a yes?
20 THE WITNESS: Yes.
21 THE COURT: Please say yes or no,
22 ma'am. Ms. Halsey can't take down uh-hum or unh-uhs.
23 THE WITNESS: Okay.
24
25 BY MR. GREG DAVIS:
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5394

1 Q. And, at the time that she gave the
2 marijuana to Renee, how old was Renee Stanley?
3 A. Sixteen.
4 Q. Did you ever have any conversations
5 with the defendant about your feelings about what was
6 happening inside that house with Renee?
7 A. Yes, I did.
8 Q. Can you tell us what that conversation
9 was and how it went?
10 A. I did not agree that she was an adult
11 giving my best friend things that I don't agree with
12 people doing, drugs and alcohol and cigarettes,
13 especially when she wasn't an adult.
14 Q. What did the defendant say, if
15 anything?
16 A. Not really anything. She just laughed
17 it off.
18 Q. Did you continue going over to the
19 defendant's house after that conversation?
20 A. Yes, we had this conversation a lot.
21 Q. Okay. Was there a time when you
22 finally decided that you couldn't go over there any more?
23 A. Yes, I did.
24 Q. Okay.
25
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5395

1 MR. GREG DAVIS: I'll pass the
2 witness.
3
4 CROSS EXAMINATION
5
6 BY MR. RICHARD MOSTY:
7 Q. Ms. Hennessey, you are now 18?
8 A. Yes, I am.
9 Q. When did you turn 18?
10 A. June 18th.
11 Q. All right. And, where do you live?
12 A. I live in Rowlett.
13 Q. Where, in relationship to Eagle Drive?
14 A. I live in the same neighborhood, on
15 Luna Drive.
16 Q. On Luna Drive? How far away is that?
17 A. About a block.
18 Q. And you had, I guess, walked down?
19 A. Yes, or drive.
20 Q. Okay. And do you still live there?
21 A. No.
22 Q. Who did you live with?
23 A. My mother.
24 Q. And anyone else?
25 A. My stepfather and my sister and
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1 brother.
2 Q. Your stepfather is Glenn Mize, isn't
3 it?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. And you know that his name -- you know
6 he came down here and testified, didn't he? Or came down
7 here and appeared and stood in Court?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. And, was that Glenn Mize's house that
10 you lived in?
11 A. His and my mother's.
12 Q. Okay. And, how long did y'all live in
13 that house?
14 A. Well --
15 Q. How long did you live there with Mize?
16 Was it anybody else other than Mize, and your mother and
17 you?
18 A. My brother and sister.
19 Q. How old are they?
20 A. Five and fifteen.
21 Q. Five and fifteen?
22 A. Um-hum. (Witness nodding head
23 affirmatively.)
24
25 THE COURT: Is that a yes, ma'am,
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
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1 please?
2 THE WITNESS: Yes.
3
4 BY MR. RICHARD MOSTY:
5 Q. And, how long did you live on Luna
6 Drive about a block down?
7 A. Three years.
8 Q. What years?
9 A. From '92 to '94.
10 Q. From '92 to '94?
11 A. No, '95.
12 Q. '95?
13 A. Um-hum. (Witness nodding head
14 affirmatively.) Yes.
15 Q. When did you move away?
16 A. Last May.
17 Q. Last May?
18 A. Um-hum. (Witness nodding head
19 affirmatively.) Yes.
20 Q. May of '96 or May of '95?
21 A. May of '96.
22 Q. Okay. So, how long do you think you
23 lived on Luna Drive?
24 A. About three years or a little more.
25 Q. Okay. So would we say from '93 to
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1 '96?
2 A. We lived in an apartment before that,
3 I don't remember.
4 Q. Well, how long were your mother and
5 Glenn Mize married?
6 A. Seven years.
7 Q. That broke up because they couldn't
8 get along back in May? Is that why you all moved out?
9 A. No, they had problems their entire
10 marriage.
11 Q. Had problems their entire marriage?
12 Violent problems?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. Glenn Mize beat her?
15
16 MR. GREG DAVIS: I'm going to object
17 to this as not being relevant.
18 THE COURT: Overruled. I'll let it
19 in. Go ahead.
20
21 BY MR. RICHARD MOSTY:
22 Q. Did Glenn Mize beat your mother?
23 A. She has been hit by Glenn.
24 Q. Okay. And that is what particularly
25 broke things up finally in May of '96?
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1 A. Yes, among other problems.
2 Q. Now, were you living with them when
3 you moved in the house on Luna Drive?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. So, if you moved out in May of '96,
6 and you were there about three years, you must have moved
7 in sometime in '93. And I understand you are not going
8 to be exact.
9 A. Yeah.
10 Q. Do you really recall?
11 A. It was '92 or '93.
12 Q. Okay. What grade were you in?
13 A. I was going into the 9th grade when we
14 moved, so I guess it was about four years.
15 Q. When did you meet Renee Stanley?
16 A. A couple of weeks after I moved into
17 the house.
18 Q. Okay. And you said that you quit
19 going, I guess, to the Routier residence because you were
20 offended by what you saw?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. When did you quit going?
23 A. In February of '95 I stopped being
24 friends with Renee, so it was about January.
25 Q. Okay. January of 1995?
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5400

1 A. Yes.
2 Q. How many times do you think you were
3 in the Routier house?
4 A. There was too many times to count. I
5 have been in there about every weekend that she babysat.
6 Q. Okay. And these things happened every
7 weekend?
8 A. Which things?
9 Q. All of these things that you have
10 described.
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. Every time the boys were out playing
13 in the yard that you went down there?
14 A. Almost every time that I was there
15 Renee would drink or smoke cigarettes.
16 Q. Yeah. She would just drink every
17 time. And every time the boys played in the fountain
18 that you were down there?
19 A. Not every time, but several times.
20 Q. Okay. They were playing with other
21 neighborhood kids?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. And, there were other neighborhood
24 kids running and playing in their yard?
25 A. Um-hum. (Witness nodding head
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5401

1 affirmatively.) Yes.
2 Q. Coming in and out of the house? A lot
3 of neighborhood kids coming through there?
4 A. Yes, a lot of kids.
5 Q. And they were Devon and Damon's age,
6 more or less? Their friends?
7 A. Probably a little older.
8 Q. Okay. Now, when did this incident
9 about the cigarettes happen? That happened every time
10 too?
11 A. That happened several times when I
12 wasn't there.
13 Q. Well, tell me how you know what
14 happened when you weren't there?
15 A. My best friend told me. I was present
16 at times that they were given to her.
17 Q. Cigarettes?
18 A. Um-hum. (Witness nodding head
19 affirmatively.)
20 Q. What kind were they?
21 A. Marlboro.
22 Q. Marlboro?
23 A. Lights or reds.
24 Q. Well, do you remember?
25 A. She smoked both.
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1 Q. And every time Darlie went and bought
2 cigarettes for her? That is what you are telling this
3 jury?
4 A. That is where Darlie (sic) was getting
5 them from. I mean, Renee.
6 Q. Every time she went down there she
7 bought cigarettes for her?
8 A. Not every time. She didn't smoke all
9 the time --
10 Q. Do you smoke?
11 A. No.
12 Q. Okay. And, is it your testimony that
13 you never saw Darlie playing with those kids?
14 A. Not really.
15 Q. Never saw it?
16 A. No.
17 Q. Never saw her paying attention to
18 them?
19 A. Not really.
20 Q. Whenever she was there, she paid no
21 attention whatsoever to those children?
22 A. Not really. She was speaking with
23 Renee.
24 Q. And you know that, you remember that,
25 don't you?
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5403

1 A. Yes.
2 Q. How did you happen to -- how did the
3 district attorney's office happen to find you?
4 A. I'm not sure.
5 Q. Who came to see you? Mr. Bosillo?
6 A. No, there was a police officer.
7 Q. In a uniform?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. What's his name?
10 A. Grant Jack.
11 Q. Grant Jack. Did you give him a
12 written statement?
13 A. No.
14 Q. You never wrote out anything?
15 A. No.
16 Q. When did you talk to this Grant Jack?
17 A. I didn't really speak with him. I
18 spoke with Anita and Mike.
19 Q. Pardon?
20 A. I spoke with Anita and Mike.
21 Q. Who are Anita and Mike?
22 A. Them two in the audience.
23 Q. Well, I thought you told me that you
24 spoke with Grant Jack?
25 A. That is who told me to come to the
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5404

1 meeting.
2 Q. When did you come to this meeting?
3 A. Probably in September or August.
4 Q. Where was the meeting?
5 A. In the Rowlett Police Department.
6 Q. Who all was there?
7 A. Me and my mother, Lieutenant Grant
8 Jack and Anita and Mike.
9 Q. Who else?
10 A. My little brother was there.
11 Q. Did they say, "Tell me everything you
12 know about Darlie Routier"?
13 A. No. They just asked me general
14 questions, how I came to know her, and I mentioned
15 situations that happened.
16 Q. You don't like Darlie, do you?
17 A. Not especially.
18 Q. And that has been going on a long
19 time?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. You know also that you -- your mother
22 and Darlie had an argument, too, don't you, had words?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. Because Darlie told --
25
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5405

1 MR. GREG DAVIS: I'm going to object
2 to that as being hearsay, your Honor.
3 THE COURT: Sustained.
4 MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY: She knows.
5 MR. GREG DAVIS: That is hearsay.
6 THE COURT: Sustained. Let's rephrase
7 your question, or go on to the next question.
8
9 BY MR. RICHARD MOSTY:
10 Q. Well, you know that there was a
11 problem between Glenn Mize and Basia, don't you, or
12 Barbara Jovell?
13 A. There wasn't a problem.
14 Q. It was a what -- they were having a
15 relationship?
16 A. No. It was a conversation on the
17 phone.
18 Q. And that was between your mother and
19 Darlie?
20 A. This was between Glenn and Basia.
21 Q. Well, what about -- what do you know
22 about the conversation between your mother and Darlie?
23
24 MR. GREG DAVIS: I'm going to object
25 to that as being hearsay, your Honor.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5406

1 MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY: Let me develop
2 and find out what she knows.
3 THE COURT: Well, is that the
4 question?
5
6 BY MR. RICHARD MOSTY:
7 Q. You heard some conversations, didn't
8 you?
9 A. Between who?
10 Q. Your mother and Darlie?
11 A. No. She spoke once with her on the
12 phone.
13 Q. You heard your mother?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. And you heard your mother have words?
16 A. No, there was not an argument.
17
18 MR. GREG DAVIS: I'll object to this
19 again, as being hearsay, as to what her mother said.
20 THE COURT: Sustained.
21
22 BY MR. RICHARD MOSTY:
23 Q. When did all of that happen? Don't go
24 into what happened, but when did the problem happen?
25 A. About December or January, December of
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5407

1 '94 or January of '95.
2 Q. Okay. And, that is about the time
3 that you decided you wouldn't be going down to the
4 Routier's anymore?
5 A. I decided that in February.
6 Q. Yeah, but it's just coincidence that
7 about the time your mother and Mrs. Routier had a
8 problem, that is when you decided you wouldn't go to the
9 Routier house, that is just a coincidence?
10 A. Yes.
11
12 MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY: I'll pass the
13 witness.
14 MR. GREG DAVIS: No further questions.
15 THE COURT: All right. Ma'am, you may
16 step down.
17 Ma'am, when you're not testifying, you
18 have to remain outside the courtroom. Don't talk about
19 your testimony with anybody who has testified, in other
20 words, "don't compare it."
21 You may talk to the attorneys for
22 either side. If somebody tries to talk to you about your
23 testimony, please tell the attorney for the side who
24 called you. Okay?
25 THE WITNESS: Okay.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5408

1 THE COURT: Now, watch your step going
2 down there, please.
3 All right. Your next witness.
4 MS. SHERRI WALLACE: Call Eileen
5 Schirmer.
6 THE COURT: Eileen Schirmer. Ms.
7 Schirmer, just come on up here, please, ma'am. Will you
8 raise your right hand, please, ma'am?
9
10 (Whereupon, the witness
11 Was duly sworn by the
12 Court, to speak the truth,
13 The whole truth and
14 Nothing but the truth,
15 After which, the
16 Proceedings were
17 Resumed as follows:)
18
19 THE COURT: Do you solemnly swear or
20 affirm that the testimony you are about to give will be
21 the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so
22 help you God?
23 THE WITNESS: I do.
24 THE COURT: All right. If you will
25 have a seat right here, please.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5409

1 MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY: Your Honor, may
2 we approach?
3 THE COURT: Sure.
4
5 (Whereupon, a short
6 Discussion was held
7 Off the record, after
8 Which time the
9 Proceedings were resumed
10 As follows:)
11
12 THE COURT: All right. This is Eileen
13 Schirmer. Is this the first time have you testified?
14 THE WITNESS: Yes, sir.
15 THE COURT: All right. Speak into
16 this microphone loudly so that gentleman sitting right
17 down there can hear you.
18 Listen to each question and answer
19 just what they ask you. Say yes or no, not uh-hum or
20 unh-uh.
21 THE WITNESS: Okay.
22 THE COURT: All right. Keep your
23 voice up.
24
25
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5410

1 Whereupon,
2
3 EILEEN SCHIRMER,
4
5 was called as a witness, for the State of Texas, in the
6 Punishment Phase, having been first duly sworn by the
7 Court to speak the truth, the whole truth, and nothing
8 but the truth, testified in open court, as follows:
9
10 THE COURT: State your full name
11 please and spell it for the court reporter.
12 THE WITNESS: My name is Eileen
13 Schirmer, last name, S-C-H-I-R-M-E-R.
14 THE COURT: You are going to have to
15 get your voice up a little more so that Mr. Samford can
16 hear it there. Now, you are going to hear your voice
17 echo, and resonate. Don't drop it, keep it up. Okay?
18 THE WITNESS: My name is Eileen
19 Schirmer. First name, E-I-L-E-E-N.
20
21 DIRECT EXAMINATION
22
23 BY MS. SHERRI WALLACE:
24 Q. Ms. Schirmer, how old are you?
25 A. I'm 30 years old.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5411

1 Q. Okay. Are you married?
2 A. Yes, ma'am.
3 Q. Do you have any children?
4 A. I have two children.
5 Q. What are their ages?
6 A. I have a girl that is nine years old
7 and a boy that is six years old.
8 Q. Do you work?
9 A. Yes, I do.
10 Q. What do you do?
11 A. My husband and I are self-employed.
12 We own our own business, engineering of printed circuit
13 boards.
14 Q. What sort of business is that? Tell
15 us about that.
16 A. We do the mechanical design and the
17 actual layout of the printed circuit boards themselves.
18 Q. Is that the same kind of business that
19 the Routiers are in?
20 A. Yes, it is.
21 Q. How are y'alls' businesses different,
22 if they are?
23 A. They test -- their business would
24 actually test the printed circuit boards, and we were the
25 beginning phases of the design that actually produced the
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5412

1 schematics and the layouts and the actual drawings.
2 Q. What sort of role do you have in that
3 business, Ms. Schirmer?
4 A. I am the majority stockholder owner
5 and the executive vice-president.
6 Q. Okay. And what do you actually -- I
7 mean, you go to work, and you get your cup of coffee,
8 what do you do next?
9 A. I go to work and I work 8 to 5 every
10 day and I handle all the accounting and the credit for
11 the company.
12 Q. So, it's fair to say you do the books
13 and the finances?
14 A. Yes, I do.
15 Q. Make sure that everything is going
16 right?
17 A. Right.
18 Q. Through work, did and your husband get
19 to know Darin and Darlie Routier?
20 A. Yes, ma'am.
21 Q. Okay. And how did you come about
22 getting to know the Routiers?
23 A. My husband knew Darin Routier through
24 the business, and through conversations. My name came
25 up, and she approached me at my office, inquiring about
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5413

1 day care, the fact that I worked and had children, and
2 how they were cared for, and what day care I used.
3 Q. Okay. About when did she come and ask
4 you about day care, if you remember?
5 A. It was the latter part of '93.
6 Q. All right. Was that the first time
7 you had ever met her?
8 A. Yes, it was.
9 Q. Were you and your husband's business
10 close to Testnec, the Routiers' business?
11 A. Yes, they were very close.
12 Q. Tell the jury about how they were in
13 relation to each other.
14 A. A little more than the length of this
15 courtroom, but in separate buildings.
16 Q. So one day the defendant just came
17 over to talk to you about day care?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. How was she dressed when she came
20 over?
21 A. She -- her clothing was all green,
22 tight body suit, tight jeans with suede boots past the
23 knees, all green to match.
24 Q. Let me ask you Ms. Schirmer, what was
25 your first impression of her?
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5414

1 A. That she liked to be very glamorous,
2 that she paid a lot of attention to her looks.
3 Q. Over the course of time, did it just
4 so happen that you and your husband were also building a
5 home near their home?
6 A. That's correct.
7 Q. Okay. Were you already building it
8 before you had even met the Routiers?
9 A. We had already bought the lot before
10 we had ever met the Routiers. Yes, that was
11 coincidental.
12 Q. Okay. How close was the home you were
13 building to the home they had on Eagle Drive?
14 A. Their home is the corner home with
15 Willowbrook being the next street, and Allen Lane being
16 the second one, we're the third house from that same end.
17 Q. So about two streets over?
18 A. Two streets over.
19 Q. Because you worked in the same area
20 and you lived in the same area, did you have the
21 opportunity to see the defendant frequently?
22 A. Yes, almost every day, just either in
23 the business or casually passing through the neighborhood
24 or it could have been the actual conversation of visiting
25 one another.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5415

1 Q. How was she -- when you saw her these
2 other times, did she look different than she had the
3 first time you saw her?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. Tell the jury how she looked usually.
6 A. Usually she was without makeup,
7 shorts, baggy shirts, her hair wasn't so poofed up,
8 typically wore her jewelry but maybe not as much.
9 Q. Did she wear undergarments?
10 A. Not that I could tell.
11 Q. Okay. Did she ever wear a bra?
12 A. No.
13 Q. Okay. Through being around the
14 parents, did you have an opportunity to get to know the
15 children?
16 A. Yes, I did.
17 Q. Devon and Damon?
18 A. Um-hum. (Witness nodding head
19 affirmatively.)
20 Q. Were they about the same age as your
21 little boy?
22 A. Yes, they were very close, months
23 apart.
24 Q. Okay. And, once you all moved in the
25 neighborhood, did you see the boys even more?
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5416

1 A. Yes, a lot more.
2 Q. How often would you see the boys?
3 A. Whenever they were home the boys would
4 usually be outside, that was a good indication if they
5 were home or not.
6 Q. So if the boys were not outside,
7 pretty much the Routiers were not home; is that about
8 right?
9 A. That's right.
10 Q. Okay. Who was out there watching
11 them?
12 A. There was usually no one from that
13 family out there with the boys.
14 Q. So the times that you would see them,
15 Ms. Schirmer, were Devon and Damon ever supervised?
16 A. No, they were not supervised, not by
17 their parents.
18 Q. One time, did you and your family have
19 an invitation to join the Routiers on their boat?
20 A. Yes, we did.
21 Q. Was that in the summer of '94?
22 A. I believe it was, shortly after they
23 had purchased the boat.
24 Q. About how old were the boys at that
25 time, if you remember?
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5417

1 A. I want to say about four and five.
2 Q. How old was your son in '94?
3 A. He was four years old.
4 Q. So he was the age of the little one,
5 of Damon?
6 A. Yes, of Damon.
7 Q. Did your son know how to swim?
8 A. No.
9 Q. Were you concerned about him going out
10 on the boat and to the lake?
11 A. Yes, even around the docks.
12 Q. Did you take any precautions because
13 he didn't know how to swim?
14 A. Yes, we all did. We made sure that
15 Darin had enough life jackets on the boat for everybody
16 who was going out on the boat.
17 Q. Did you ask your son to wear his or
18 did you just make sure it was there?
19 A. We actually -- everyone in my family
20 put the life jackets on.
21 Q. Was that when you were in the boat or
22 on land or where?
23 A. When we actually got into the boat.
24 Q. Okay. Now, what about the Routier
25 boys, Devon and Damon? Do you know whether or not they
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5418

1 knew how to swim?
2 A. I was told that they did not know how
3 to swim as well.
4 Q. Who told you that, their mom?
5 A. Darlie, yes.
6 Q. Okay. And, did they have any life
7 jackets on?
8 A. No.
9 Q. Did you -- did that concern you?
10 A. Yes, it did. Especially around the
11 docks, because they were free to roam the docks. Whereas
12 I made my children stay hand in hand with my husband and
13 I.
14 Q. What did your little boy have to say
15 about that?
16
17 MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY: I'll object.
18 That is hearsay.
19 THE COURT: Sustained.
20
21 BY MS. SHERRI WALLACE:
22 Q. Did you and your son have a
23 conversation about that?
24 A. Yes, he felt like --
25
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5419

1 MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY: Objection.
2 THE COURT: Sustained. Let's rephrase
3 the question or move on to a new one, please.
4
5 BY MS. SHERRI WALLACE:
6 Q. And after the conversation, did you
7 still make him stay with you with the life jacket on?
8 A. Yes, I did. I made him wear his life
9 jacket.
10 Q. Was there a concern in your
11 neighborhood about the Routier boys running wild?
12
13 MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY: Objection, that
14 is hearsay. That is the most speculative hearsay.
15 THE COURT: I'll sustain the
16 objection.
17
18 BY MS. SHERRI WALLACE:
19 Q. Ms. Schirmer, did you have a concern
20 about the Routier boys running wild in the neighborhood?
21 A. Yes, I did, especially in and around
22 the cars parked on that corner.
23 Q. Did you do anything about that?
24 A. Yes, I had brought it to Darin and
25 Darlie's attention, at times that when their cars were
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5420

1 parked out there, if the boys were riding their bikes or
2 standing behind them, or playing games, that you could
3 not see them dart out, because the visibility was blocked
4 by their vehicles.
5 Q. Did the defendant respond in any way?
6 A. No.
7 Q. Did you approach her another time, in
8 person, about seeing the boys fairly far away from their
9 home?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. Okay. What did you tell the
12 defendant?
13 A. I felt like it was far from home,
14 because it was off their street and out of visibility
15 range, and I let her know that they were over on my
16 street, and up on the other streets riding their bikes.
17 Q. What reaction did you expect?
18
19 MR. DOUGLAS MULDER: To which we
20 object. How is it material what reaction she would
21 expect?
22 THE COURT: I'll overrule that
23 objection. Go ahead, answer it.
24
25 BY MS. SHERRI WALLACE:
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5421

1 Q. Why did you tell her these things, Ms.
2 Schirmer?
3 A. I felt like that she would be
4 surprised to know that they were that far from home or
5 that she would appreciate the fact that I brought it to
6 her attention and to have them either stay closer to home
7 or go where they needed to go and check in.
8 Q. Did you get that reaction?
9 A. No.
10 Q. What did she say, if anything?
11 A. She didn't really seem to say
12 anything, or be that concerned.
13 Q. Did you have the opportunity to --
14 were you and your family invited to Devon's fifth
15 birthday party?
16 A. Yes, we were.
17 Q. Okay. That was in June of 1994?
18 A. I believe it was, yes.
19 Q. And tell the members of the jury, what
20 sort of birthday party was that? What did y'all do?
21 A. Devon's birthday party was in a park.
22 It was picnic style. Just a community setting type, a
23 spread, you know, pinatas to bust, some water balloons,
24 and water guns, and food.
25 Q. What happened there?
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5422

1 A. It was a family social, we did the
2 pinata breaking, played games, and the kids filled their
3 water guns, and played with the water balloons, and
4 everybody sprayed one another with them.
5 Q. So, did a water fight break out?
6 A. Yes, it did.
7 Q. Okay. Tell us about that.
8 A. Well, a water fight broke out and the
9 parents and the children were spraying one another. It
10 was not just among the children.
11 And, at one point, everybody was
12 pretty wet, and Darlie had said, "Okay, enough is enough.
13 Let's stop the water gun fight now."
14 And one person sneaked in a squirt
15 here and there, and the next thing you know, everyone is
16 squirting again. And Devon sprayed Darlie, and she got
17 really mad about it. She immediately grabbed a piece of
18 birthday cake off the table and shoved it right into his
19 face.
20 Q. How did she do that?
21 A. By grabbing his head and reaching for
22 the plate off the table and shoving the two together.
23 Q. So with one hand she held his head,
24 and with the other hand, she put the cake in his face?
25 A. Yes.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5423

1 Q. Did she look playful?
2 A. No. Everybody stopped laughing and
3 stared right at her and at Devon expecting him to start
4 crying and --
5
6 MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY: Objection to
7 what people were expecting.
8 THE COURT: Sustained. The jury is
9 instructed to disregard that statement by the witness.
10
11 BY MS. SHERRI WALLACE:
12 Q. What did Devon do?
13 A. He stood there for a moment, just
14 stared at her and he got angry.
15 Q. What did the defendant do?
16 A. She told him that he was warned and to
17 stop and that he got what he deserved.
18 Q. Now, the woman we're talking about, do
19 you see her in the courtroom?
20 A. Yes, ma'am, I do.
21 Q. Would you point her out for the jury?
22 A. She is the woman in the red and white
23 dress.
24 Q. The woman over her tapping her pen and
25 taking notes?
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5424

1 A. Yes, ma'am.
2
3 MS. SHERRI WALLACE: Let the record
4 reflect that the witness has identified the defendant.
5 THE COURT: Yes, ma'am.
6
7 BY MS. SHERRI WALLACE:
8 Q. What did you think at point, Ms.
9 Schirmer?
10
11 MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY: Objection to
12 what she thought, that is pure speculation and hearsay.
13 THE COURT: Sustained.
14 MS. SHERRI WALLACE: What she thought
15 herself, your Honor.
16 MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY: What she
17 thought --
18 THE COURT: Wait a minute. Ladies and
19 gentlemen, an objection will be sufficient. Sustained.
20 Move on.
21
22 BY MS. SHERRI WALLACE:
23 Q. What did you do at that point, Ms.
24 Schirmer?
25 A. My husband and I discussed leaving the
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5425

1 party.
2 Q. Okay. Did you leave?
3 A. No, we did not.
4 Q. Why not?
5 A. Because the children were still
6 playing over in the pinata area and had not witnessed it,
7 and wouldn't have understood if we were just to tell them
8 that we needed to go right in the middle of their
9 activity.
10 Q. A little bit later in the party, did
11 you witness another exchange between the defendant and
12 her, at that time, five year old son, Devon?
13 A. Yes, ma'am.
14 Q. Tell the jury about that.
15 A. She approached Devon and told him that
16 he was not to try to do it again, or to get even with her
17 for putting the cake in his face.
18 Q. What was her tone?
19 A. Under her breath and talking through
20 her teeth.
21
22 MS. SHERRI WALLACE: I'll pass the
23 witness.
24
25
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5426

1 CROSS EXAMINATION
2
3 BY MR. RICHARD MOSTY:
4 Q. Ms. Schirmer, I take it that you don't
5 much like Mrs. Routier?
6 A. That is not true.
7 Q. You do like her?
8 A. Yes, sir.
9 Q. How do you discipline your children?
10 Do you spank them?
11 A. I have occasionally.
12 Q. With your hand?
13 A. Yes, sir.
14 Q. Some people could disagree with that,
15 couldn't they?
16 A. If they wanted to.
17 Q. You do, perhaps different than someone
18 else disciplines their children?
19 A. That is probably true.
20 Q. Okay. Does your husband spank them?
21 A. Occasionally.
22 Q. With his hand?
23 A. Yes, sir.
24 Q. With anything else?
25 A. No, sir.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5427

1 Q. All right. And, how old are your
2 kids?
3 A. Nine and six.
4 Q. You ever have any hard days with them?
5 A. Yes, I do.
6 Q. Do you ever raise your voice to them?
7 A. Yes, I have.
8 Q. Ever get angry with them?
9 A. I get angry, yes.
10 Q. Okay. Ever do some things that you
11 regret doing with them?
12 A. I can't say that I have.
13 Q. Nothing you regret?
14 A. Not that I can remember.
15 Q. Some people could perhaps disagree
16 with how you handle some of those situations.
17
18 MS. SHERRI WALLACE: I'm going to
19 object to speculation on her part.
20 THE COURT: I'll sustain that. Let's
21 move on.
22
23 BY MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY:
24 Q. Are you a perfect mother?
25 A. No, I am not.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5428

1 Q. Have you ever slapped your kids, hit
2 your kids?
3
4 MS. SHERRI WALLACE: Object to
5 relevance.
6 MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY: Your Honor,
7 this lady --
8 THE COURT: Mr. Mosty, all I need is
9 an objection, please. Overruled.
10
11 BY MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY:
12 Q. Have you ever slapped your kids, or
13 pushed them away, or grabbed them up by the arm?
14 A. No, sir.
15 Q. Never, never have?
16 A. No, sir.
17 Q. And, you know that a lot of people do
18 different things, don't you?
19 A. Yes, sir.
20 Q. As a matter of fact, you know, for
21 instance, that there was conversation, that Darin and
22 Darlie were talking about getting speed bumps into the
23 neighborhood?
24
25 MS. SHERRI WALLACE: I'll object as to
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5429

1 hearsay and speculation.
2 THE COURT: Sustained, hearsay. Go
3 ahead.
4 MR. DOUGLAS MULDER: If she knows.
5
6 BY MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY:
7 Q. Well, do you know whether or not the
8 Routiers were looking into getting speed bumps in that
9 area?
10 THE COURT: I'll let her answer that.
11 Do you know of your own knowledge?
12 THE WITNESS: No, I do not know.
13
14 BY MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY:
15 Q. You don't know one way or the other,
16 do you?
17 A. I know that -- it's not to my
18 knowledge that they were trying to do that, no.
19 Q. Of course, how many times have you
20 ever been in their house?
21 A. A couple of dozen.
22 Q. A couple of dozen times you have been
23 in their house?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. And you don't know whether or not they
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
5430

1 addressed the matter of cars and the speed in that area
2 or not, do you?
3 A. I -- Darin has, in a remote way,
4 addressed the speed of the --
5 Q. In a remote way Darin addressed it.
6 Is that what you are saying?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. So Darin did express some concern and
9 take some action toward speed bumps. Is that what you
10 are telling us now?
11 A. He had -- no, not towards the speed
12 bumps, towards the traffic that was on that corner.
13 Q. Matter of fact, what he did was, he
14 parked his car out there, to try to slow things down,
15 didn't he?
16
17 MS. SHERRI WALLACE: Object. That's
18 hearsay. It's not the actions of the defendant.
19 THE COURT: Overruled. If she
20 knows -- if you know yourself or of your own knowledge,
21 answer the question.