Volume 42

1 IN THE CRIMINAL DISTRICT COURT NO. 3
2 DALLAS COUNTY, TEXAS
3
4
5
6 THE STATE OF TEXAS }
7 VS: } NO. F-96-39973-J
8 DARLIE LYNN ROUTIER } & A96-253 (Kerr Co.)
9
10
11
12
13
14 REPORTERS RECORD
15 JURY TRIAL
16 VOL. 42 OF 53 VOLS.
17 January 27, 1997
18 Monday
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4044

1 C A P T I O N
2
3
4 BE IT REMEMBERED THAT, on Monday, the 27th day of
5 January, 1997, in the Kerr County Courthouse, this case
6 being transferred from Criminal District Court Number 3
7 of Dallas County, Texas, the above-styled cause came on
8 for a trial before the Hon. Mark Tolle, Judge Presiding,
9 for the Criminal District Court No. 3, of Dallas County,
10 Texas, with a jury, and the proceedings were held, in
11 open court, in the City of Kerrvile, Kerr County
12 Courthouse, Kerr County, Texas, and the proceedings were
13 had as follows:
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4045

1 A P P E A R A N C E S
2
3
4 HON. JOHN VANCE,
5 Criminal District Attorney
6 Dallas County, Texas
7
8 BY: HON. GREG DAVIS
9 Assistant District Attorney
10 Dallas County, Texas
11
12 AND:
13 HON. TOBY L. SHOOK
14 Assistant District Attorney
15 Dallas County, Texas
16
17 AND:
18 HON. SHERRI WALLACE
19 Assistant District Attorney
20 Dallas County, Texas
21
22 APPEARING FOR THE STATE OF TEXAS
23
24
25
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4046

1 ADDITIONAL APPEARANCES:
2 HON. DOUGLAS D. MULDER
3 Attorney at Law
4 2650 Maxus Energy Tower
5 717 N. Harwood
6 Dallas County, Texas 75201
7 AND:
8 HON. CURTIS GLOVER
9 Attorney at Law
10 2650 Maxus Energy Tower
11 717 N. Harwood
12 Dallas County, Texas 75201
13 AND:
14 HON. RICHARD MOSTY
15 Attorney at Law
16 Wallace, Mosty, Mchann, Jackson & Williams
17 820 Main Street, Suite 200
18 Kerrville, Texas 78028
19 AND:
20 HON. S. PRESTON DOUGLASS, JR.
21 Attorney at Law
22 Wallace, Mosty, Machann, Jackson & Williams
23 820 Main Street, Suite 200
24 Kerrville, Texas 78028
25
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4047

1 AND:
2 HON. JOHN HAGLER
3 Attorney at Law
4 901 Main Stree, Suite 3601
5 Dallas, Texas 75202
6 AND:
7 MR. LLOYD HARRELL
8 Private Investigator
9 Dallas, Texas
10 APPEARING FOR THE DEFENDANT
11 AND:
12 HON. ALBERT D. PATILLO, III
13 Attorney at Law
14 820 Main Street, Suite 211
15 Kerrville, TX, 78028
16 APPEARING FOR WITNESS:
17 Detective Jimmy Patterson
18 AND:
19 HON. STEVEN J. PICKELL
20 Attorney at Law
21 620 Earl Garrett Street
22 Kerrville, TX 78028
23 APPEARING FOR WITNESS:
24 Officer Chris Frosch
25
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4048

1 P R O C E E D I N G S
2
3 January 27, 1997
4 Monday
5 9:00 a.m.
6
7 (Whereupon, the following
8 proceedings were held in
9 open court, in the presence
10 and hearing of the
11 defendant, being
12 represented by her attorneys
13 and the representatives of
14 the State of Texas, but
15 outside the presence of the
16 jury, as follows:)
17
18
19 THE COURT: All right. Mr. Davis, I
20 assume that Mr. Patterson is here and ready if they want
21 him?
22 MR. GREG DAVIS: Yes, sir.
23 THE COURT: Okay. Are both sides
24 ready to bring the jury in and resume the trial in the
25 State of Texas versus Darlie Routier?
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4049

1 MR. GREG DAVIS: Yes, sir, the State
2 is ready.
3 MR. DOUGLAS D. MULDER: Yes, sir, the
4 defense is ready.
5 THE COURT: All right. Bring the jury
6 in, please.
7
8 (Whereupon, the jury
9 Was returned to the
10 Courtroom, and the
11 Proceedings were
12 Resumed on the record,
13 In open court, in the
14 Presence and hearing
15 Of the defendant,
16 As follows:)
17
18 MR. DOUGLAS D. MULDER: We will call
19 Mr. Patterson.
20 THE COURT: All right. Have Mr.
21 Patterson to come in, please.
22 Good morning, ladies and gentlemen.
23 Let the record reflect that all parties in the trial are
24 present and the jury is seated.
25 Ladies and gentlemen, the first
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter

4050

1 witness is on his way in the courtroom.
2 Please raise your right hand, sir.
3
4 (Whereupon, the witness
5 Was duly sworn by the
6 Court, to speak the truth,
7 The whole truth and
8 Nothing but the truth,
9 After which, the
10 Proceedings were
11 Resumed as follows:
12
13 THE COURT: Do you solemnly swear or
14 affirm that the testimony you are about to give will be
15 the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so
16 help you God?
17 THE WITNESS: I do.
18 THE COURT: You have testified before
19 and you understand Rule of Evidence; is that correct?
20 THE WITNESS: Yes, sir.
21 THE COURT: All right. You are under
22 it now.
23 THE WITNESS: Yes, sir.
24 THE COURT: All right. If you will
25 just have a seat up here in this witness box, please.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4051

1 THE WITNESS: Yes, sir.
2 THE COURT: All right. You may
3 proceed, Mr. Mulder.
4
5 Whereupon,
6
7 JIMMY RAY PATTERSON,
8
9 was called as a witness, for the Defense, having been
10 first duly sworn by the Court to speak the truth, the
11 whole truth, and nothing but the truth, testified in open
12 court, as follows:
13
14
15 DIRECT EXAMINATION
16
17 BY MR. DOUGLAS D. MULDER:
18 Q. Would you tell the jury your name,
19 please, sir?
20
21 MR. DOUGLAS D. MULDER: Excuse me,
22 Judge, are you ready to go?
23 THE COURT: Well, let's see, we always
24 think we are, but we don't know. I'm not sure this sound
25 system is working here. All right. I think we have that
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4052

1 taken care of now.
2
3 BY MR. DOUGLAS D. MULDER:
4 Q. Would you tell the jury your name,
5 please, sir?
6 A. Jimmy Ray Patterson.
7 Q. Mr. Patterson, you are a police
8 officer?
9 A. Yes, sir.
10 Q. And, you work for Rowlett Police
11 Department?
12 A. Yes, sir, I do.
13 Q. And what was your position, vis-a-vis,
14 the Darlie Routier case?
15 A. I am the lead detective in the case.
16 Q. All right. Well, you left town before
17 we had a chance to talk to you. When did you leave
18 Kerrville?
19 A. Sometime after 6:00 o'clock Thursday
20 afternoon.
21 Q. Thursday afternoon. When did you
22 first come to Kerrville, Mr. Patterson?
23 A. The first time I came down here was on
24 the 6th.
25 Q. The 6th of January?
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4053

1 A. Yes, sir.
2 Q. Okay. And, you were with us until
3 sometime after 6:00 o'clock on Thursday of last week, is
4 that correct?
5 A. That's correct.
6 Q. Have you brought your notes with you?
7 A. Yes, sir, I have.
8 Q. Do you have your case file with you?
9 A. Yes, sir.
10 Q. Could I see it, please?
11 A. I don't have it right here with me.
12 Q. Where is it?
13 A. It's in the back.
14 Q. Could you get it, please?
15 A. Yes.
16
17 MR. DOUGLAS D. MULDER: Would you mark
18 this, please?
19
20 (Whereupon, the following
21 mentioned item was
22 marked for
23 identification only as
24 Defendant's Exhibit No. 72,
25 after which time the
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4054

1 proceedings were
2 resumed on the record
3 in open court, as
4 follows:)
5
6 BY MR. DOUGLAS D. MULDER:
7 Q. Let me hand you what has been marked
8 for identification and record purposes as Defendant's
9 Exhibit No. 72 and I'll ask you if that is the note book
10 that you just handed to me?
11 A. Yes, sir, it is.
12 Q. And this contains your entire file on
13 Darlie Routier; is that correct?
14 A. Yes, sir.
15 Q. You and I have never met, have we?
16 A. No, sir, we have not.
17 Q. We have never visited about this case,
18 have we?
19 A. No, sir.
20 Q. Now, when you were first notified that
21 there had in fact been a -- an assault or a death there
22 at 5801 Eagle Drive in Rowlett?
23 A. June the 6th, 1996, at about 2:55 in
24 the morning.
25 Q. Okay. Were you at home or were you on
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4055

1 duty?
2 A. I was at home.
3 Q. Okay. And as result of that, did you
4 have occasion to get up and get dressed and proceed to
5 that scene?
6 A. Yes, sir, I did.
7 Q. Okay. About what time did you arrive
8 there?
9 A. About 3:30, 3:35.
10 Q. Okay. And, who was there when you
11 arrived, Detective Patterson?
12 A. There was some fire personnel, there
13 was some uniformed officers at the scene, the lieutenant
14 over C.I.D. was at the scene.
15 Q. Who is the lieutenant over C.I.D.?
16 A. His name is Grant Jack.
17 Q. All right. Was he down here for the
18 past three weeks as well, along with you?
19 A. No, sir.
20 Q. Has he been here?
21 A. Yes, sir.
22 Q. Okay. He is back in Rowlett now, I
23 guess?
24 A. No, sir.
25 Q. Where is he?
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4056

1 A. He is here now.
2 Q. Oh, he came back down with you?
3 A. Not with me. He came back down.
4 Q. Who else came down this weekend?
5 A. An officer, Dwayne Beddingfield,
6 Sergeant David Nabors, and another detective by the name
7 of Chris Frosch.
8 Q. Just the five of y'all?
9 A. Yes, sir.
10 Q. Okay. When did y'all get back down
11 here?
12 A. I got back down here yesterday about
13 4:00 o'clock.
14 Q. Okay. When did the others come, do
15 you know?
16 A. I'm not sure.
17 Q. Okay. At any rate you got out there
18 and the medical personnel were there; is that right?
19 A. I don't know -- no, I think they had
20 already left and I talked to a firefighter.
21 Q. Okay. Do you know how many medical
22 personnel had been there?
23 A. Not total, no, sir.
24 Q. Okay. I take it you interviewed the
25 paramedics who had been at the scene?
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4057

1 A. They had written a written statement.
2 Q. I mean, does that mean you interviewed
3 them?
4 A. I did not talk to them personally, no.
5 Q. Did you talk to any of them?
6 A. No, sir.
7 Q. All right. And, you don't know how --
8 whether there were eight or nine or ten or you don't know
9 how many there were?
10 A. I don't recall how many were out
11 there.
12 Q. Okay. What was the first thing you
13 did when you got to the scene?
14 A. The first thing I did when I arrived
15 at the scene is I met with the officer in charge.
16 Q. And, who was that?
17 A. Sergeant Matt Walling.
18 Q. Okay. And I guess you talked with
19 Sergeant Walling?
20 A. Yes, sir.
21 Q. Okay. And what is the next thing that
22 you did?
23 A. He briefed me on what he knew, at that
24 time, and I just walked up to the front door, and there
25 was an Officer Wade at the front door. He asked me if I
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4058

1 was going inside and I said no. And I just veered inside
2 for a second.
3 Q. You did go inside, did you?
4 A. No, I did not. I just looked inside
5 from the door, from the front porch.
6 Q. I thought you said you veered inside.
7 You peered inside?
8 A. Yes, sir, I just looked inside.
9 Q. You just looked inside?
10 A. Yes, sir.
11 Q. And, what was the next thing you did?
12 A. Well, Sergeant Walling had told me
13 about a screen that had been --
14 Q. We're not going into what you were
15 told. I asked simply what you did?
16 A. I walked around to the back and
17 noticed the screen window had been cut.
18 Q. Okay. And when you went around to the
19 back, did you have occasion to look at the back gate?
20 A. Yes, sir.
21 Q. Okay. And, did you notice anything
22 unusual about the back gate?
23 A. It was open.
24 Q. Anything else?
25 A. No, sir, not at that time.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4059

1 Q. Did you move it back and forth to see
2 how it swung in place?
3 A. No, sir, I did not.
4 Q. Did you see any scuff marks at the
5 base of the gate?
6 A. I didn't look.
7 Q. Okay. Will you tell the jury which
8 way the gate swung?
9 A. Inwards.
10 Q. Okay. Inwards to your right, as you
11 were going in from the garage or to your left?
12 A. As you walk up to the gate, it swung
13 open this way. (Demonstrating)
14 Q. Okay. And it was open at the time you
15 first observed it?
16 A. Yes, sir.
17 Q. Okay. And you walked around to the
18 screen that was cut?
19 A. I walked inside just enough where I
20 could see the screen. I didn't go up to the screen.
21 Q. Well, why is that?
22 A. Well, I didn't want to tamper with any
23 evidence, in case there was any.
24 Q. Okay. Did you know that other
25 officers had already been on the scene, and had been to
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4060

1 the screen?
2 A. Well, the only thing I knew, was that
3 there had been an officer look in the back yard.
4 Q. Just over the fence was your
5 understanding?
6 A. No, just went inside the back yard to
7 look, to make sure there wasn't any suspects.
8 Q. Okay. But had not actually approached
9 the screen, was that your understanding?
10 A. I really didn't get into that to know.
11 Q. So, you didn't know whether anybody
12 had gone in the back yard, or what the extent of the back
13 yard was?
14 A. I didn't know who had been in the back
15 yard.
16 Q. Okay.
17 A. I just knew that a couple of officers
18 had went in there, just to make sure that there wasn't a
19 suspect.
20 Q. Okay. After that, what did you do?
21 A. At that point, I went back around to
22 the front, and asked by my lieutenant to go to the
23 hospital and meet with the witnesses.
24 Q. Okay. Did you talk with anyone else
25 at the scene, before you went to the hospital?
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4061

1 A. Well, I had talked to one of the fire
2 person -- or the paramedics, just for a brief moment,
3 yes.
4 Q. Okay. Did you talk with any of the
5 neighbors?
6 A. Yes, sir.
7 Q. You forgot about that?
8 A. No, I didn't forget about it.
9 Q. Okay. I asked you if you had talked
10 to anybody else before you left for the hospital, didn't
11 I?
12 A. Right. And I just said that I had
13 talked to the captain.
14 Q. Well, you were just fixing to tell us
15 about the neighbors?
16 A. Yes, sir.
17 Q. Okay. As a matter of fact you were
18 advised that there had been a small, black car at the
19 scene, had you not?
20
21 MR. GREG DAVIS: I'm going to object
22 to that as hearsay, what he was advised.
23 THE COURT: I'll sustain the
24 objection.
25
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4062

1 BY MR. DOUGLAS D. MULDER:
2 Q. Well, when you talked to the neighbor
3 was your attention directed to this part of the street?
4
5 MR. GREG DAVIS: Objection, that is
6 hearsay.
7 THE COURT: Overruled. Go ahead.
8 MR. DOUGLAS D. MULDER: Yes, sir.
9 THE WITNESS: I heard a lady call out
10 that she wanted to talk to an officer.
11
12 BY MR. DOUGLAS D. MULDER:
13 Q. Okay.
14 A. And I walked over there to talk to
15 her.
16 Q. Okay. And were you advised that she
17 had seen a small, black car in this location?
18 A. Yes.
19
20 MR. GREG DAVIS: I'm going to object,
21 your Honor, that is hearsay.
22 THE COURT: Sustained. Let's phrase
23 our questions properly.
24
25 BY MR. DOUGLAS D. MULDER:
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4063

1 Q. Okay. Was your attention directed to
2 a location immediately in front of her mailbox?
3
4 MR. GREG DAVIS: I'm going to object.
5 That is hearsay what he was advised or directed. That
6 has to come from someone else who is not here, so it has
7 to be hearsay.
8 MR. DOUGLAS D. MULDER: Well, Judge,
9 he can testify to that.
10 THE COURT: Just a minute. I'll
11 overrule that. Let's go ahead and move on with the case.
12 MR. DOUGLAS D. MULDER: Sure.
13
14 BY MR. DOUGLAS D. MULDER:
15 Q. Detective Patterson, moving right
16 along, will you tell the jury whether or not your
17 attention was directed to this mailbox in the parking
18 area immediately in front of it?
19 A. Well, not to the mailbox.
20 Q. Okay. To the parking area immediately
21 in front -- tell the jury where your attention was
22 directed. We'll make it easy.
23 A. Okay. A lady had called out and asked
24 me -- she said that she wanted to talk to an officer, and
25 so I walked over there.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4064

1 Q. You talked to her, didn't you?
2 A. Yes, sir.
3 Q. And you made a note in your
4 supplemental report, didn't you?
5 A. Yes, I made a note, yes, sir.
6 Q. Okay. And in that note you said that
7 there had been --
8
9 MR. GREG DAVIS: I'm going to object
10 to that --
11 MR. DOUGLAS D. MULDER: -- a black
12 car, that night --
13 MR. GREG DAVIS: Judge, please. I'm
14 going to object to this.
15 MR. DOUGLAS D. MULDER: Judge, let me
16 finish my question.
17 THE COURT: Let him finish his
18 objection, please.
19 MR. GREG DAVIS: I am going to object
20 to that as being hearsay, and referring to documents not
21 in evidence.
22 THE COURT: All right. Well, let's --
23 All right. Well, I'll sustain that objection. And let's
24 phrase our questions properly, please.
25 If you want to put the document in
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4065

1 evidence, then let's do so. I assume you are referring
2 to State's (sic) Exhibit No. 75?
3 MR. DOUGLAS D. MULDER: Judge, that
4 was State's (sic) Exhibit No. 72.
5 THE COURT: I mean, Defendant's
6 Exhibit No. 72.
7 MR. DOUGLAS D. MULDER: Judge, I'm not
8 suggesting that I put his entire report in. I don't mind
9 giving him his report to refresh his memory.
10 THE COURT: Well, I think if you will
11 just phrase the questions properly, then we will move on.
12 Let's go ahead, please.
13 MR. DOUGLAS D. MULDER: All right.
14 Well --
15
16 BY MR. DOUGLAS D. MULDER:
17 Q. All right. Again, as a result of your
18 conversation with the lady, where was your attention
19 directed in this enlarged -- what would you call that
20 area?
21 A. A residential area.
22 Q. Well, yes.
23
24 THE COURT: You might speak a little
25 bit louder, because the last two jurors have to hear you
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4066

1 down there. Just speak into that mike so they can hear
2 you.
3
4 BY MR. DOUGLAS D. MULDER:
5 Q. What would you call this area? Is
6 this a little parking area?
7 A. Yes, sir, I would call it a street.
8 Q. Okay. And would you call this a
9 parking area in the street or not?
10 A. Well, no, sir, I wouldn't.
11 Q. What would you call it?

12 A. I would call it a street.
13 Q. Okay.
14 A. But people parked along the curb side,
15 yes.
16 Q. Okay. This appears to be a car headed
17 in, is that right?
18 A. Yes, sir.
19 Q. Okay. And do people park in that
20 fashion?
21 A. Yes, sir.
22 Q. Okay. And, will you tell us, and tell
23 the jury what your conversation with the lady was about,
24 please, sir?
25 A. She asked to speak with an officer,
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4067

1 and so I walked over there, and she said something to the
2 effect that she had saw a car --
3
4 THE COURT: The jurors cannot hear you
5 on the end down there.
6 THE WITNESS: That she had saw a car
7 leaving that scene, as the police and the fire department
8 had arrived, or right after they had arrived.
9
10 BY MR. DOUGLAS D. MULDER:
11 Q. And, she also told you that she was
12 familiar with the cars in the neighborhood, didn't she?
13 A. No, sir, I don't recall her telling me
14 that.
15 Q. Okay. You made a note of that in your
16 report, did you, your conversation with the lady?
17 A. Yes, sir.
18 Q. Did you later on that afternoon, have
19 an occasion to -- you or one of the police officers
20 there, to talk with a Karen Neal in regards to a small,
21 black car that had passed through the neighborhood that
22 afternoon?
23 A. I did not.
24 Q. Do you know if anybody else did?
25 A. No, sir, I do not.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4068

1 Q. Would it be your responsibility, as
2 the primary officer in charge of this case, to find those
3 things out? I mean, would you be the center where the
4 information is funneled into?
5 A. Yes, sir.
6 Q. Okay. And I take it that this report
7 over here, Defendant's Exhibit No. 72 is an accumulation
8 of reports that other people have filled out and
9 submitted to you?
10 A. That's correct.
11 Q. So you would, for lack of a better
12 word, be the central information clearinghouse, I guess,
13 in this case, for lack of a better description?
14 A. I could, yes, sir.
15 Q. Okay. You would be the one who ought
16 to be familiar with, whatever is going on in this
17 particular case; right?
18 A. Well, you have to understand that, you
19 know, I'm not going to remember everything. And that,
20 you know, I did look over the reports.
21 Q. Okay. I mean, that is the reason we
22 make reports, isn't it? Because we can't be expected to
23 remember everything?
24 A. Well, that is to refresh our memory,
25 yes, sir.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4069

1 Q. And, like you have so skillfully
2 pointed out, had it not been for the paramedics reports,
3 you wouldn't know what any of the paramedics did out
4 there, would you?
5 A. That's correct.
6 Q. Because you have not, to this date,
7 talked to any of them, have you?
8 A. No, I have not.
9 Q. Okay. So you don't know which ones
10 were in the house, whether they were all in the house, or
11 what parts of the house they went into, or what they did
12 while they were there, do you?
13 A. Well, by their notes I do know.
14 Q. Oh, they all addressed that, as to
15 where they went in the particular house, and what they
16 did?
17 A. They addressed what they did, yes.
18 Q. Okay. But they don't address where
19 they went in the house, do they?
20 A. No, sir, I don't believe so.
21 Q. All right. And you didn't think that
22 that was important to you, I guess, in evaluating the
23 case, or you would have interviewed them?
24 A. They have been interviewed.
25 Q. But not by you?
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4070

1 A. But not by me.
2 Q. Okay. Did you interview the officers
3 that were first on the scene?
4 A. I read their notes.
5 Q. Okay. So your knowledge of what their
6 activities were, of course, would be limited by the notes
7 that they prepared?
8 A. Yes, sir.
9 Q. Okay. And if a witness, or a
10 participant in the investigation of this case, did not
11 prepare a report, of course, there would be nothing for
12 you to review, would there? Does that make sense?
13 A. Well, I don't understand what you are
14 saying.
15 Q. All right. Well, if a participant in
16 the investigation made no report either because he was
17 directed by the district attorney or someone else not to
18 prepare a report, there would be, of course, nothing for
19 you to review, would there?
20 A. Well, I don't think anyone is going to
21 tell someone not to prepare a report.
22 Q. Well, that would be mighty poor police
23 work, wouldn't it? In your judgment?
24 A. Maybe in some cases, yes.
25 Q. Okay. You don't really want to commit
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4071

1 to that one?
2 A. Well, no, I do not, because I really
3 don't understand what you are asking me.
4 Q. Well, I'm saying this as simply as I
5 can. That it would be very poor police work not to
6 prepare a report, would it not?
7 A. Well, that depends on what you are
8 doing and what -- you know, and what you did in this
9 case.
10 Q. Well, okay. If you didn't want
11 anybody to find out about it, it would be a good idea, I
12 guess?
13 A. Well, we are not going to do that. We
14 write our notes and we make supplements to these reports.
15 Q. Okay. Did you make a supplement to
16 your report when you all met down at the courthouse, and
17 everyone took the witness stand and testified as regards
18 to what they did in this particular case?
19 A. Did I take notes?
20 Q. Yeah, did you make notes on that?
21 A. No, sir.
22 Q. Okay. Why was that?
23 A. I didn't see any need in taking notes.
24 Q. Okay. And I take it you testified in
25 that event?
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4072

1 A. No, sir.
2 Q. But you were there and listened to
3 everyone else?
4 A. I was there, and we talked about our
5 case, yes.
6 Q. Okay. Was there someone on the bench
7 in lieu of the judge?
8 A. Well, there was someone sitting up
9 there in the judge's chair.
10 Q. Okay. Well, just by coincidence or do
11 you --
12 A. Well, I don't know why.
13 Q. You never did figure out why?
14 A. No, sir.
15 Q. All right. Well, let's just see if we
16 can't figure out why -- you know what circumstantial
17 evidence is, don't you?
18 A. Yes, sir.
19 Q. Okay. Was there someone in the
20 prosecutor's -- at the prosecutor's desk in the
21 courtroom?
22 A. Yes, sir.
23 Q. And was there someone at the defense
24 table, a lawyer?
25 A. Yes, sir.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4073

1 Q. And was there someone up on the bench
2 in the judge's position?
3 A. Yes, sir.
4 Q. And was there someone on the witness
5 stand where you are right now?
6 A. Yes, sir.
7 Q. And did the prosecutor ask them
8 questions?
9 A. Yes, sir.
10 Q. And did the defense lawyers ask them
11 questions?
12 A. Yes, sir.
13 Q. Now circumstantially, do you think
14 that we could put those circumstances together, and
15 figure out that they were conducting a mock trial?
16 A. I think what we were doing, is that we
17 were just trying to make sure -- well, we wanted to make
18 sure that the prosecutors knew what we knew.
19 Q. Okay. And, it helped, I guess, to
20 make sure that the other officers knew everything that
21 you --
22 A. Well, I don't know about that.
23 Q. You don't know about that. Okay.
24 Now, at any rate, after you had talked
25 to the lady at the curb side there, in what you termed to
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4074

1 be the street, and I would call an enlarged maybe elbow
2 of the street, did you then leave to go to Baylor
3 Hospital?
4 A. No, sir.
5 Q. What did you do?
6 A. There was another lady that came up
7 and I talked to her for a few minutes.
8 Q. Okay. And who might that have been?
9 A. Her name was Barbara Jovell.
10 Q. Okay. And did you engage her in a
11 conversation as regards to a black car?
12 A. She had mentioned that her mother had
13 seen a black car.
14 Q. Okay. When in time had her mother
15 seen a black car?
16 A. The way she described it, it was
17 earlier on the 5th.
18 Q. Just the day before?
19 A. Yes, sir.
20 Q. And, in fact, less than eight hours
21 earlier, would that be about right?
22 A. No, sir, I don't know about what time,
23 but it was more than eight hours earlier.
24 Q. Okay. Nine hours, ten hours?
25 A. I don't know.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4075

1 Q. When did she tell you that?
2 A. When I talked to Barbara Jovell, which
3 was sometime between 3:35 and 4:00 o'clock, we tried to
4 contact her mother, but her mother -- I could not
5 understand what she was saying.
6 Q. Okay. Did you understand, that being
7 a detective out there, I guess you would want to know
8 where she saw the car, wouldn't you?
9 A. Yes, sir.
10 Q. And what the car was doing?
11 A. She didn't know what the car was
12 doing.
13 Q. All right. But, you would want to
14 know what she thought the car was doing that was
15 suspicious, right?
16 A. Yes, sir.
17 Q. I mean, it had to have been doing
18 something that -- I mean, there are a lot of cars out
19 there, can we agree on that?
20 A. Well, there's lot of cars that drive
21 out there, yes.
22 Q. Okay. And, most of them, we aren't
23 going to think anything about them, because they don't do
24 anything to attract our attention, right?
25 A. Right.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4076

1 Q. So this had to be one that attracted
2 her attention, correct?
3 A. Well, she told us about it, yes, sir.
4 Q. Okay. And where did she tell you that
5 car was?
6 A. My understanding was it was in the
7 alleyway behind the house.
8 Q. Okay. Is this the alleyway behind
9 this house?
10 A. Yes, sir, it is.
11 Q. This is the alleyway behind the house?
12 A. Right, that's correct.
13 Q. All right. And you understood it was
14 in the alleyway behind the house, and apparently doing
15 something that was -- or at least she thought it was
16 suspicious; is that right?
17 A. Well, the only thing she could say is
18 that it was a car behind the house, and going through the
19 alleyway.
20 Q. Well, of course, a car behind the
21 house going through the alleyway, ordinarily wouldn't be
22 suspicious, would it?
23 A. No, it would not be.
24 Q. All right. So there must have been
25 more to it than that, to have attracted her attention,
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4077

1 and to have her --
2 A. She never did tell me.
3 Q. She wouldn't tell you?
4 A. She didn't tell me.
5 Q. All right. Well, after that, did you
6 then leave for the hospital, without talking to anyone
7 further?
8 A. Yes, sir.
9 Q. Okay. And where did you go, Detective
10 Patterson, when you arrived at the hospital?
11 A. To the emergency room.
12 Q. Okay. And, who did you see there?
13 A. I first met up with a uniformed
14 officer, who had directed me to where Detective Frosch
15 was.
16 Q. All right. And, did you find where
17 Detective Frosch was?
18 A. Yes, sir.
19 Q. All right. And, about what time did
20 you arrive at Baylor Hospital?
21 A. About 4:30 A.M.
22 Q. Okay. And, did you determine that
23 Darlie Routier had already arrived there?
24 A. Yes, sir.
25 Q. Okay. And, did you determine what
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4078

1 time she had arrived there?
2 A. No, sir, I did not.
3 Q. Okay. Did you determine that her
4 youngest son, Damon Routier, had arrived at Baylor
5 Hospital?
6 A. Yes, sir.
7 Q. Did you determine what time he had
8 arrived?
9 A. No, sir, I did not.
10 Q. Did you determine at what time either
11 one of them left the Eagle Drive address?
12 A. No, sir.
13 Q. It didn't seem to be important?
14 A. I'm not saying it didn't seem to be
15 important, I didn't ask.
16 Q. Okay. Did you ask later on?
17 A. No, sir.
18 Q. So, it never has seemed important?
19 A. No, I'm not saying it didn't seem
20 important. It just wasn't a question that I asked.
21 Q. Well, I mean, you have not asked to
22 this moment, have you?
23 A. Well, no, sir.
24 Q. So apparently it's not important to
25 you even now?
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4079

1 A. Well, it's on the fire department's
2 run sheet.
3 Q. Did you look at it there?
4 A. I reviewed the run sheet, but I don't
5 know what time they left.
6 Q. Okay. Well, would you tell the jury
7 what time they arrived at Baylor Hospital?
8 A. I just told you, I don't know.
9 Q. All right. Well, at any rate, did you
10 proceed to where Detective Frosch was?
11 A. Yes, sir.
12 Q. And where was he?
13 A. He was in a waiting room where Darin
14 Routier was.
15 Q. Okay. All right. And just the two of
16 them?
17 A. No, there was another person there, I
18 believe his name is Terry Neal.
19 Q. Okay. He is Detective Frosch's cousin
20 by marriage, is he not?
21 A. I don't know what he is to Detective
22 Frosch.
23 Q. Okay. You have never talked with
24 Detective Frosch about that?
25 A. He made mention that he was some
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4080

1 relative, but I don't know what.
2 Q. Okay. At any rate, did you interview
3 Darin Routier at that time?
4 A. Yes, sir.
5 Q. And how long did you and Detective
6 Frosch, in the presence of Detective Frosh's relative,
7 talk with Darin Routier?
8 A. We didn't.
9 Q. You didn't talk with him?
10 A. I didn't talk to Darin Routier in
11 front of Mr. Neal, no.
12 Q. Well, why is that?
13 A. Well, we had asked Mr. Neal to step
14 out of the room.
15 Q. Okay. So both you and Detective
16 Frosch were there, is that right?
17 A. In the waiting room with Darin?
18 Q. Yes, sir.
19 A. Yes, sir.
20 Q. All right. And you interviewed him at
21 that time, is that right?
22 A. Yes, sir.
23 Q. Okay. And I assume that you took
24 notes of that interview?
25 A. Yes, sir.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4081

1 Q. Okay. And where are -- are your notes
2 in this --
3 A. No, sir.
4 Q. Where are your notes?
5 A. Back there in the office.
6 Q. Could you get those notes for us,
7 please, sir?
8 A. Yes, sir.
9 Q. Okay. Thank you. Would you -- the
10 notes are not a part of your file; is that right?
11 A. No, they are not.
12 Q. Okay. Would you just -- whatever you
13 have, would you bring them on out here, and I'll save you
14 a trip.
15 A. Yes, sir. I will bring them all.
16 Q. Okay. Thank you, Detective Patterson.
17
18 (Whereupon, the following
19 mentioned items were
20 marked for
21 identification only as
22 Defendant's Exhibit No. 73,
23 after which time the
24 proceedings were
25 resumed on the record
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4082

1 in open court, as
2 follows:)
3
4 BY MR. DOUGLAS D. MULDER:
5 Q. All right. In your presence I'll mark
6 this for identification and record purposes as
7 Defendant's Exhibit No. 73. And, that is a number of
8 stapled note book sheets, is that correct?
9 A. Yes, sir.
10 Q. And this contains all of the notes
11 that you have made in this particular case?
12 A. Yes, sir.
13 Q. When were these notes made, Detective
14 Patterson?
15 A. They have been made at different
16 times.
17 Q. Okay. I figured that out, that they
18 were made at different times. But, did you date them?
19 A. Some of them is dated and some of them
20 are not.
21 Q. Well, why wouldn't you date all of the
22 reports?
23 A. Well, I just didn't date them.
24 Q. Well, why?
25 A. I don't have a reason, I just didn't
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4083

1 date them.
2 Q. Well, you knew what the date was,
3 didn't you?
4 A. I know what the date is going to be.
5 Q. All right. But how many did you date,
6 and how many did you not date?
7 A. Well, there's a few pages that are
8 dated, and a few pages that are not dated.
9 Q. Okay.
10
11 MR. DOUGLAS D. MULDER: Mark this,
12 please.
13
14 (Whereupon, the following
15 mentioned item was
16 marked for
17 identification only as
18 Defendant's Exhibit No. 73,
19 after which time the
20 proceedings were
21 resumed on the record
22 in open court, as
23 follows:)
24
25 BY MR. DOUGLAS D. MULDER:
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4084

1 Q. Now, let me hand you back what has
2 been marked for identification and record purposes as
3 Defendant's Exhibit No. 73. And will you tell the jury
4 which of the pages of your personal notes are dated?
5 A. Page number 1 has a date.
6 Q. What is the date on page number 1?
7 A. June the 6th, 1996.
8 Q. And that relates to your conversation
9 with a Nelda Watts?
10 A. Yes, sir, it does.
11 Q. All right. And it has the time?
12 A. Yes, sir.
13 Q. What time?
14 A. 3:45 A.M.
15 Q. All right. And I assume that you put
16 down everything that was relevant in that conversation
17 that you had with her?
18 A. Yes, sir.
19 Q. Okay. And then the next one is
20 Barbara Jovell?
21 A. Yes, sir.
22 Q. All right. And what time is that?
23 A. June the 6th, 1996, at 3:54 A.M.
24 Q. Okay. And what is the next page that
25 is dated?
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4085

1 A. June the 6th, 1996.
2 Q. Okay. And, does that have someone's
3 name on it or relate to a conversation?
4 A. Yes, sir, it does.
5 Q. And, who might that be, please, sir?
6 A. Theresa Marie Powers.
7 Q. Okay. Theresa?
8 A. Theresa.
9 Q. Theresa Powers?
10 A. Yes, sir.
11 Q. And what is the date and time of that?
12 A. June 6th, 1996, at 4:36 A.M.
13 Q. And who is the Theresa Powers?
14 A. A nurse at Baylor Hospital.
15 Q. All right. So, by that time we can
16 assume that you are at Baylor Hospital?
17 A. Yes, sir.
18 Q. Okay. Do you find any other notes in
19 there that are dated? Excuse me, I think there is a
20 medical -- it says M.E. office, and it has the date, but
21 nothing written.
22 A. It has the date on there.
23 Q. Is that what I am holding up here?
24 A. Yes, sir.
25 Q. Where it just says 5:44 A.M., and
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4086

1 6-6-96, M.E. office?
2 A. Right.
3 Q. Does that mean you were at the M.E.
4 office?
5 A. No, sir.
6 Q. What does it mean?
7 A. That means that that is what time that
8 I talked to someone at the M.E.'s office from the
9 hospital.
10 Q. Can you tell who you talked to?
11 A. I don't remember her name.
12 Q. But you can remember that it was a
13 female?
14 A. Yes, sir.
15 Q. But didn't write any notes other than
16 that?
17 A. No, sir, I didn't.
18 Q. Okay. So other than that sheet, the
19 only other notes that are dated and timed are this second
20 sheet you said, and this first sheet, is that right?
21 A. Can I finish looking at that?
22 Q. You bet.
23 A. And there's some date on these last --
24 the date and time are on these last three pages.
25 Q. Are you talking about a report that
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4087

1 you did?
2 A. Yes, sir.
3 Q. That was a supplemental report?
4 A. Right.
5 Q. Okay. Did you take -- I guess the way
6 we got into this, and I have not asked for them, but you
7 said you took notes about your conversation with Darin
8 Routier?
9 A. Actually -- well, yes, there is notes
10 in there, yes, sir.
11 Q. Okay. Could you point me to that
12 part, please, sir?
13 A. Okay.
14 Q. Are you referring to a supplemental
15 report?
16 A. Yes, sir.
17 Q. You didn't have a laptop computer or a
18 typewriter with you?
19 A. Not with me, no.
20 Q. Okay. But I thought you said you took
21 notes?
22 A. I did.
23 Q. Where are the notes?
24 A. That is this right here.
25 Q. Well, that is typed?
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4088

1 A. Okay. I didn't take handwritten
2 notes.
3 Q. Oh, you took mental notes. You mean,
4 we have been going through this exercise, and you have
5 been telling me all along that the notes you took were
6 simply mental notes?
7 A. Yes, sir.
8 Q. Okay. And those, I guess, were those
9 timed and dated?
10 A. My mental notes?
11 Q. Um-hum. (Attorney nodding head
12 affirmatively.)
13 A. Well, I have dates and times on there.
14 Q. Okay. But the notes that you took,
15 that you were telling us about, when you interviewed
16 Darin Routier, were mental notes?
17 A. Correct.
18 Q. Okay. All right. Now, how long did
19 you talk to Darin Routier?
20 A. Twenty or 30 minutes.
21 Q. Okay. And had he been interviewed by
22 Chris Frosch prior to the time that you got there?
23 A. Yes, sir.
24 Q. And do you know how extensive he had
25 been interviewed?
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4089

1 A. No, sir.
2 Q. Okay. You didn't talk to Detective
3 Frosch and find out?
4 A. I talked to him briefly, yes.
5 Q. Before or after you interviewed Darin?
6 A. Before.
7 Q. Okay. Where did you talk to him? In
8 the presence of Darin?
9 A. No, just right outside the waiting
10 room.
11 Q. Of course, you didn't make any written
12 notes on that, did you?
13 A. I did not, no.
14 Q. All right. Now, you proceeded from
15 there to where? After you had interviewed Darin Routier?
16 A. Then I went back and went into the
17 room where Damon Routier was.
18 Q. About what time was this, Detective
19 Patterson?
20 A. Sometime just before 6:00 A.M.
21 Q. Okay. So about what -- if you arrived
22 out at the hospital at what time?
23 A. About 4:30.
24 Q. Okay. And you talked to Darin for
25 half an hour or so?
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4090

1 A. Yes, sir.
2 Q. Would it now be five o'clock or
3 thereabouts?
4 A. Or a little after.
5 Q. Where did you go from your interview
6 with Darin Routier?
7 A. I went to the room where Damon Routier
8 was.
9 Q. Okay. And, did you view his body?
10 A. Yes, sir.
11 Q. And, how long did that take?
12 A. I can't give you a time. I was in
13 there a few minutes before I notified the crime scene
14 officer.
15 Q. Okay. And where did you go from
16 there?
17 A. From where?
18 Q. From the room where Darin -- Damon
19 Routier was?
20 A. Well, he was in a room that is there
21 attached to the emergency room, and I just went outside
22 and made a phone call.
23 Q. Okay. And who did you call?
24 A. I called the dispatch, Rowlett Police
25 dispatch and asked for a crime scene unit.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4091

1 Q. Okay. And who did you talk with?
2 A. I do not remember.
3 Q. Okay. Where did you go from there?
4 You were outside, and you were on the phone, you finish
5 your phone conversation. Where did you go next?
6 A. Back in there and talked to Frosch for
7 a little bit.
8 Q. By this time what time is it?
9 A. I don't know.
10 Q. After five o'clock?
11 A. Well, it's after five, yes, it's just
12 shortly before six.
13 Q. Okay. So you talked with Frosch.
14 Now, during your interview with Darin Routier, did
15 Detective Frosch take any notes?
16 A. Yes, sir.
17 Q. And, in your presence?
18 A. Yes, sir.
19 Q. Written notes?
20 A. Written notes? I can't say for sure,
21 I don't know.
22 Q. Okay. All right. And I mean, is
23 there some reason that you all didn't take written notes?
24 A. No, sir.
25 Q. I mean, I guess I wouldn't know enough
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4092

1 not to take notes. Is that a bad practice, to take
2 notes?
3 A. I don't think so, no.
4 Q. But you just take them sometimes and
5 sometimes you don't?
6 A. Well, in this case I didn't take any
7 notes, no.
8 Q. Okay. So, at any rate, after you have
9 conferred with Detective Frosch, where did you next go?
10 A. I waited on a crime scene unit, and he
11 arrived. At which point we went back into where Damon
12 was and we took photographs.
13 Q. Okay.
14 A. Of Damon's injuries.
15 Q. Okay. You said "we did," are you
16 saying that someone else did it in your presence?
17 A. Right.
18 Q. Do you remember who did it?
19 A. Yes, that was Officer Dwayne
20 Beddingfield.
21 Q. All right. And, what happened after
22 that?
23 A. At which time, the family arrived,
24 they wanted to see Damon, and we let Ms. Darlie Kee go in
25 there for just a moment, and then she left.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4093

1 Q. Okay. And then what did you do?
2 A. We found out that we could go talk to
3 Darlie Routier.
4 Q. Okay. And had you left instructions
5 with Darin not to leave the room that he was in? Or was
6 he free to leave, or what were your instructions to him?
7 A. Well, I don't recall telling him that
8 he couldn't leave.
9 Q. Okay. So, as far as you were
10 concerned he was free to leave?
11 A. Yes, sir.
12 Q. You didn't tell him anything to the
13 contrary?
14 A. No, sir, not that I recall.
15 Q. Well, that is something you would
16 recall, isn't it?
17 A. Well, I don't remember telling him he
18 couldn't leave, no.
19 Q. How about Detective Frosch?
20 A. I don't know.
21 Q. Not to your knowledge? I mean, he
22 didn't tell him he couldn't leave to your knowledge, did
23 he?
24 A. I don't know if he did or not.
25 Q. Okay. At any rate, who told you that
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter

4094

1 you could see Darlie Routier?
2 A. I believe it was an officer by the
3 name of Phyllis Jackson.
4 Q. Okay. Was she a young lady who worked
5 there at the Baylor Hospital?
6 A. As a policeman, yes, sir.
7 Q. Part of the Baylor private police
8 personnel?
9 A. Yes, sir.
10 Q. Okay. And about what time was it when
11 you went up to see Darlie Routier?
12 A. About 6:11.
13 Q. Okay. And, who was present when you
14 interviewed her?
15 A. Detective Frosch, and a nurse by the
16 name of Chris, and I can't recall his last name.
17 Q. But a male?
18 A. Yes, sir.
19 Q. Okay. Just the three of you: You,
20 Frosch, the nurse and Darlie Routier?
21 A. That is all that was in there that I
22 saw, yes.
23 Q. Okay. Anybody else, you would have
24 seen them?
25 A. Well, we were behind -- somewhat
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4095

1 behind a curtain. I couldn't see the front door or the
2 door leading into the hallway.
3 Q. All right. Do you know whether or not
4 Darlie Routier had been medicated?
5 A. I do not know.
6 Q. She was there in the hospital,
7 correct?
8 A. Correct.
9 Q. She had injuries that you reviewed?
10 A. Yes, sir.
11 Q. Did you -- were you advised that she
12 had just come out of surgery?
13 A. Yes, sir.
14 Q. Okay. And again, as a detective
15 wouldn't you put two and two together, and figure that
16 she had, in fact, been medicated?
17 A. Well, I don't know.
18 Q. You didn't know?
19 A. No.
20 Q. And I take it that you didn't make any
21 inquiry as to whether or not she had been medicated?
22 A. No.
23 Q. And you didn't think that that might
24 be important when you interviewed her?
25 A. What I did was, I asked her if she was
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4096

1 okay, and felt well enough to talk to us, and she said
2 she did.
3 Q. Okay. She was cooperative, wasn't
4 she?
5 A. Yes, sir.
6 Q. And, as matter of fact, answered all
7 of your questions, didn't she?
8 A. Yes, sir.
9 Q. Okay. Did you take notes of that
10 conversation?
11 A. No, sir.
12 Q. Okay.
13 A. Detective Frosch took the notes.
14 Q. And, you know, of course, that he took
15 them, and recorded them accurately?
16 A. Yes, sir.
17 Q. Okay. Even though you didn't take any
18 notes yourself?
19 A. No, because I told Frosch that I was
20 going to ask the questions while he took the notes.
21 Q. Okay. And, you were not under any
22 time restraints, were you?
23 A. No, sir.
24 Q. Okay. So you could have talked to
25 her, I guess as long as she was willing to talk to you?
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4097

1 A. Yes, sir.
2 Q. And, she was willing to talk to you,
3 as long as you asked her questions, she would answer,
4 wouldn't she?
5 A. She answered our questions, yes, sir.
6 Q. How long did you talk to her,
7 Detective Patterson?
8 A. Twenty or 30 minutes.
9 Q. Okay. Did you tell Detective Frosch
10 to note, in his notes there, the date and time that the
11 interview began, and the date and time when the interview
12 ceased?
13 A. I did not.
14 Q. Okay. Do you know whether he did or
15 not?
16 A. I know that he -- he has the date that
17 we was there, and the date that we started, or that we
18 went up there, and the time that we went up there.
19 As far as him jotting down the time we
20 actually started the interview, no.
21 Q. He didn't do that?
22 A. No.
23 Q. And he didn't jot down the time that
24 you --
25 A. Stopped.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4098

1 Q. Stopped the interview?
2 A. No.
3 Q. And, I guess you didn't think that was
4 important, or you would have had him do it?
5 A. Right, I don't see that that had
6 anything to do with it, no.
7 Q. But at any rate, that conversation
8 lasted some 20 or 30 minutes?
9 A. Something like that, yes, sir.
10 Q. And she was cooperative the entire
11 time?
12 A. Yes, sir.
13 Q. Did you ask her what had happened, or
14 what she recalled?
15 A. Yes, sir.
16 Q. And what did she tell you?
17 A. She told us, at that time, that an
18 intruder had -- well -- she had awoken to find an
19 intruder over her. She struggled with the intruder. She
20 saw him with the knife. I asked her to describe this
21 person, at which time she started to describe the person,
22 and I asked her to stop for a minute and let's start from
23 the very top to what he was wearing.
24 Q. Okay. What did she tell you?
25 A. She said that he was wearing a black
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4099

1 cap. And I said, "Was the bill to the front of the face
2 or was it turned around backwards?" And, she said the
3 bill was to the front.
4 Q. Okay.
5 A. I asked her if she remembered seeing
6 any writing on it. She didn't see any writing or no
7 pictures.
8 I asked her if she knew whether it was
9 a fitted cap, or if it was one that you had to adjust.
10 She did not know.
11 I asked her from the cap, if she could
12 describe his hair, and she said it was a dark colored
13 brown, that was shoulder length. It appeared to be
14 straight.
15 I asked her to describe his face, and
16 she could not describe any part of the face.
17 I asked her to describe what he was
18 wearing, and she said he was wearing a black T-shirt.
19 And I asked her if it was a black pull-over T-shirt, a
20 buttoned-up T-shirt, and she said it was a pull-over,
21 that it didn't have any buttons on it. Didn't have a
22 collar on it, and it was short sleeved.
23 Q. All right.
24 A. I asked her if it had any writing or
25 designs on it, and she didn't see any.
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1 I asked her about a belt. She
2 couldn't remember if there was a belt or not.
3 I asked her about his jeans. The blue
4 jeans, I asked her if she could remember if they were
5 blue blue jeans or a different color. She said blue.
6 She couldn't remember any labels on the jeans.
7 Q. Okay.
8 A. I asked her about his shoes and socks,
9 and she didn't remember any shoes or socks.
10 I asked her -- because of it being a
11 short sleeved T-shirt, if she saw any tattoos or scars on
12 his arms, and she said, no, that she didn't remember any
13 scars or tattoos.
14 Of course, naturally, we think about
15 robbery, and I asked her about her jewelry. And she said
16 the jewelry -- she described her jewelry real well and
17 where it was located.
18 And, I would have to look at my notes
19 to see what else was said.
20 Q. Okay. Are you talking about your
21 written notes?
22 A. No, I'm talking about Frosch's notes
23 or the supplement.
24 Q. You just made mental notes?
25 A. Yes, sir.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4101

1 Q. All right. Have you had occasion to
2 review Frosch's notes?
3 A. Yes, sir.
4 Q. Before your testimony?
5 A. Yes, sir.
6 Q. Yesterday I suspect?
7 A. Yes, sir.
8 Q. Okay. When is the last time before
9 yesterday that you reviewed them?
10 A. The last time I reviewed Frosch's
11 notes has been -- right after he gave them to me, months
12 ago.
13 Q. All right. Let me hand you what has
14 been marked for identification and record purposes
15 Defendant's Exhibit No. 2 (sic), and you will have his
16 notes in here?
17 A. Yes, sir.
18 Q. Would you find those for me, please,
19 sir? I mean, 72.
20 A. Okay.
21
22 THE COURT: Rather than take up the
23 jury's time, we will take a 10 minute break now, please.
24
25 (Whereupon, a short
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4102

1 Recess was taken,
2 After which time,
3 The proceedings were
4 Resumed on the record,
5 In the presence and
6 Hearing of the defendant
7 And the jury, as follows:
8
9 THE COURT: All right. Are both sides
10 ready to bring the jury back and continue with this
11 witness?
12 MR. TOBY SHOOK: Yes, your Honor, the
13 State is ready.
14 MR. DOUGLAS D. MULDER: Yes, your
15 Honor, we're ready.
16 THE COURT: All right. Bring the jury
17 back, please.
18
19 (Whereupon, the jury
20 Was returned to the
21 Courtroom, and the
22 Proceedings were
23 Resumed on the record,
24 In open court, in the
25 Presence and hearing
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4103

1 Of the defendant,
2 As follows:)
3
4 THE COURT: Let the record reflect
5 that all of the parties in the trial are present and the
6 jury is seated.
7 Mr. Mulder.
8 MR. DOUGLAS D. MULDER: Yes, sir,
9 thank you, Judge.
10 THE COURT: You may proceed.
11
12
13 DIRECT EXAMINATION (Resumed)
14
15
16 BY MR. DOUGLAS D. MULDER:
17 Q. Detective Patterson, while the jury
18 was out of the room you went through your entire file
19 here, did you not?
20 A. Yeah, pretty much so.
21 Q. All right. And you were unable to
22 find Chris Frosch's notes there?
23 A. I didn't find them, no.
24 Q. It's your file, isn't it?
25 A. Yes, sir.
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1 Q. All right. You are telling us that
2 Chris Frosch's notes are not in your file?
3 A. I didn't see them in there.
4 Q. Okay. But you reviewed them last
5 night?
6 A. I did, but I didn't look in that file.
7 I've got a copy of his notes.
8 Q. Where is that?
9 A. I just gave you two pages.
10 Q. Oh, you are talking about what is
11 written up here?
12 A. The supplement.
13 Q. Yes.
14 A. I just gave you two pages of the
15 supplement.
16 Q. Yes, sir.
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. Okay. Well, I was talking about his
19 actual notes?
20 A. I don't have that. Are you talking
21 about handwritten notes?
22 Q. Yes, sir.
23 A. I don't have those.
24 Q. Okay. So what you are telling us you
25 reviewed, you apparently reviewed the report that he
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4105

1 made, and not his handwritten notes?
2 A. What I reviewed was -- he has a
3 supplement, and I reviewed this supplement.
4 Q. Okay.
5
6 MR. DOUGLAS D. MULDER: Mark these,
7 please.
8
9 (Whereupon, the following
10 mentioned item was
11 marked for
12 identification only
13 after which time the
14 proceedings were
15 resumed on the record
16 in open court, as
17 follows:)
18
19 BY MR. DOUGLAS D. MULDER:
20 Q. Let me hand you what have been marked
21 for identification and record purposes as Defendant's
22 Exhibits 74 and 75, and I'll ask you if you recognize
23 Chris Frosch's handwriting?
24 A. I'm not sure.
25 Q. Well, I don't know whether you would
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
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1 take my word for it or not, but he handed those to me,
2 and told me they were his notes?
3 A. Okay.
4 Q. Do you have any quarrel with that?
5 A. No, sir.
6 Q. These are the notes that you saw him
7 taking at the hospital?
8 A. No, sir.
9 Q. Oh, these are not the notes that he
10 was taking at the hospital?
11 A. I didn't see what he was taking,
12 because where I was standing, I was asking questions and
13 he was kind of standing to my left, and I wasn't really
14 paying any attention to him.
15 Q. Well, when you left the hospital, did
16 you review his notes to make sure that he put down what
17 was accurate?
18 A. No, I did not.
19 Q. Why not?
20 A. Well, I just didn't review his notes.
21 Q. Well, I mean, you wanted to be
22 accurate with what she said, don't you?
23 A. Yes, sir.
24 Q. Okay. Well, I mean, what better way
25 to be accurate than either, one, record it with a tape
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4107

1 recorder, and you could have done that, couldn't you?
2 A. We could have, but that is not a
3 policy that we use, no.
4 Q. Okay. Well, I don't care whether it's
5 your policy or not, I just want to know --
6 A. Well, we care that it's our policy,
7 and it's not our policy, and so we don't use a tape
8 recorder.
9 Q. Did you have that option? You could
10 have recorded it with a tape recorder?
11 A. Well, we don't do that.
12 Q. But you could have?
13 A. We don't do that.
14 Q. Well --
15
16 THE COURT: All right. Let's move on.
17 I think everybody understands the question and the
18 answer.
19
20 BY MR. DOUGLAS D. MULDER:
21 Q. Well, you could have video recorded it
22 if you had chosen to?
23 A. But we don't do that.
24 Q. Well, you video record drunk drivers,
25 don't you?
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4108

1 A. That is uniform, that is separate than
2 our division.
3 Q. All right. So you have the equipment
4 available to you?
5 A. We have video equipment, yes, sir.
6 Q. You chose not to do that?
7 A. No.
8 Q. You chose not to take any notes
9 yourself, and you chose not to review your partner's
10 notes.
11 Would you look at those notes now,
12 Defendant's Exhibit No. 74. Would this be the first time
13 that you have looked at them?
14 A. The first time I have looked at this,
15 yes.
16 Q. All right. The first time that you
17 have ever seen his notes, as regards the conversation
18 that took place at approximately 6:00 o'clock, on June
19 the 6th of 1996, is that right?
20 A. Do what now?
21 Q. This is the first time that you have
22 reviewed Chris Frosch's notes with respect to the
23 conversation between you and Darlie at 6:11 or 6:15 or
24 whatever time it was?
25 A. I reviewed his notes. I reviewed his
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4109

1 supplement.
2 Q. Well, are those the notes that you
3 reviewed?
4 A. No, I reviewed the typed supplement
5 that he --
6 Q. All right. I understand that. Would
7 you review his notes, please, sir?
8 A. Sure.
9 Q. Okay.
10
11 THE COURT: All right. You may
12 continue, please.
13 MR. DOUGLAS D. MULDER: Yes, sir.
14
15 BY MR. DOUGLAS D. MULDER:
16 Q. Do you feel like you are well enough
17 acquainted with those notes now to answer some questions?
18 A. Yes, sir.
19 Q. Okay. You had told the jury, or given
20 them an account, and is it fair to say that these notes
21 probably start on this page that I have marked
22 Defendant's Exhibit No. 74, where it says Baylor
23 Hospital, Baylor Medical Center, Dallas, in recovery
24 room, approximately 6:11?
25 Do you see that? Would that be fair
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4110

1 to say that that is probably where those notes start?
2 A. Well, no, it looks like to me it
3 started on the first page.
4 Q. Well, but if you will read that, that
5 appears to be an interview with Darin, isn't it?
6 A. On the first several pages?
7 Q. Yes, sir.
8 A. Yes, sir.
9 Q. Okay.
10 A. These are Detective Frosch's notes and
11 that is probably who you are going to have to ask about
12 that.
13 Q. Okay. Well, inasmuch as you have
14 refreshed your memory from his notes, you have told us
15 about, for example, you gave us a description, and that
16 description was based on what Detective Frosch wrote
17 down, I assume, was it not?
18 A. The description of what?
19 Q. The description of the assailant that
20 Darlie Routier described to you, during the morning of
21 June the 6th?
22 A. And what I can remember, yes, sir.
23 Q. Okay. Did she tell y'all that the man
24 was possibly black?
25 A. She did not tell us that morning, no,
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4111

1 she had told the uniformed officer --
2 Q. Wonder why he wrote it in his notes up
3 there?
4
5 MR. GREG DAVIS: I'm going to object
6 to that, that is improper impeachment.
7 THE COURT: Sustained, sustained.
8 Let's move on. If you want to call Detective Frosch then
9 call him.
10 MR. DOUGLAS D. MULDER: Judge, I
11 intend to call him.
12 THE COURT: Well, then fine. Let's
13 move on to what this witness actually knows of his own
14 knowledge.
15 THE WITNESS: That is not what that
16 says.
17 MR. DOUGLAS D. MULDER: Yes, sir.
18
19 BY MR. DOUGLAS D. MULDER:
20 Q. "Black cap --"
21
22 MR. GREG DAVIS: I'm going to object
23 again to him going into that document.
24 THE COURT: Sustained.
25
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4112

1 BY MR. DOUGLAS D. MULDER:
2 Q. Did he have a black cap on?
3 A. She says he had a black cap on.
4 Q. Okay. Shoulder length hair or collar
5 length hair?
6 A. What I remember is, it was about
7 shoulder length -- excuse me, collar length.
8 Q. Did she ever describe the assailant as
9 possibly black?
10 A. I had one of the other supplements,
11 from Officer Waddell showed black or white.
12 Q. Okay. Black or white, is that right?
13 A. Black or white.
14 Q. Now, you were telling us about talking
15 to a lady about an unusual car out there?
16 A. Yes, sir.
17 Q. And talking to this Barbara Jovell
18 about a car, and talking to another lady about a car that
19 was parked in that -- what you call a street, is that
20 right?
21 A. Yes, sir.
22 Q. All right. Were there any other
23 people that reported a small, black car in or around the
24 Routier home that evening, or early morning? Either the
25 evening of June the 5th or the early morning of June the
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4113

1 6th?
2 A. You will have to ask me that again.
3 Q. Okay. Why was it -- why did you care
4 whether there had been mysterious cars, or suspicious
5 cars out there? What importance could that have possibly
6 been?
7 A. Well, at that time, we were looking
8 for an intruder.
9 Q. Okay. So that is what made it
10 important if there were suspicious cars out there? Is
11 that right?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. Okay. And did you find people who had
14 seen suspicious cars out there?
15 A. Did we find people?
16 Q. Yes.
17 A. The lady, Ms. Watts, told me about a
18 car.
19 Q. That is one.
20 A. But she didn't say black car to me,
21 she just said a car.
22 Q. She said a dark car to one of your
23 other fellow detectives, didn't she?
24 A. Well, I don't know if it was a dark
25 car or -- well, I would have to read that again, but it
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4114

1 was a dark car, mid-sized, and then Ms. Jovell was the
2 one that was telling me that her mother had seen a black
3 car in the alleyway.
4 Q. Okay. Well, did anybody tell you that
5 they had seen a car around midnight, drive up her alley,
6 and look in the garage, and turn -- or toward the garage,
7 and turn around, and leave, and just hanging around in
8 that area, a small, black, car?
9 A. Well --
10 Q. Yes, sir, that is about a 3 inch
11 account. Have you read that?
12 A. Well, there is a supplement about
13 someone telling a uniformed officer about a car.
14 Q. Okay.
15 A. It was dated on 6-8.
16 Q. All right. I mean, it is your report?
17 A. Right.
18 Q. Did you find someone who had seen a
19 small car in the alley shortly before midnight, some two,
20 or two and a half hours before the attack?
21 A. I didn't talk to anybody about that.
22 Q. I know. But that report came in to
23 you, didn't it?
24 A. Which report? That report there shows
25 a different date.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4115

1 Q. "Drove by the victim's home slowly.
2 Drove in the alley -- "
3
4 MR. GREG DAVIS: I'm going to object
5 to that.
6 THE COURT: Sustained. Please ask the
7 next question.
8 Please answer all of the questions you
9 know of your own knowledge, directly and succinctly, and
10 as quickly as possible.
11 THE WITNESS: Yes, sir.
12
13 BY MR. DOUGLAS D. MULDER:
14 Q. Did you say that this is the first
15 time that you have actually seen the spiral notebook with
16 the handwritten notes?
17 A. Yes, sir.
18 Q. Okay. Now, you were there
19 approximately 20 to 30 minutes, is that what you have
20 previously testified to?
21 A. I was where?
22 Q. At the hospital, at Baylor, talking to
23 Darlie?
24 A. Yes, sir.
25 Q. Okay. Twenty or 30 minutes, is that
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4116

1 right?
2 A. About that.
3 Q. That is not a trick question. I want
4 to move on.
5 A. Approximately, yes.
6 Q. Okay. And, did you then leave the
7 hospital, or did you go back to talk to Darin?
8 A. I don't remember talking to Darin any
9 more after that.
10 Q. Okay. Did you return to the hospital
11 any more that day?
12 A. I don't recall being back at the
13 hospital that day.
14 Q. Of course, you didn't put anything in
15 your notes about it, did you?
16 A. No, sir.
17 Q. You didn't put anything in your notes
18 about talking to Darin, did you?
19 A. Yes, sir.
20 Q. You did?
21 A. I have a supplement showing I talked
22 to Darin.
23 Q. Well, but I'm talking about your
24 handwritten notes?
25 A. I didn't take any handwritten notes.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4117

1 Not about when I talked to Darin.
2 Q. Okay. No handwritten notes when you
3 talked to Darin, and no handwritten notes when you talked
4 to Darlie?
5 A. No. On that day.
6 Q. Right. You don't recall returning to
7 the hospital that day?
8 A. I don't remember coming back to the
9 hospital.
10 Q. Well, does that mean you could have?
11 A. I could have.
12 Q. Okay. But you wouldn't -- of course,
13 there is no way we will know, because you don't have any
14 notes; is that right?
15 A. I know that I talked to somebody about
16 coming back to the hospital, but I don't remember that I
17 went back to the hospital.
18 Q. All right. When you left the
19 hospital, will you tell the jury where you went?
20 A. That morning?
21 Q. Yes, sir.
22 A. I went back to 5801 Eagle Drive.
23 Q. Okay. About what time did you get
24 back there?
25 A. I can't remember if it was shortly
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4118

1 before 8:00 o'clock or shortly before 9:00 o'clock.
2 Q. Okay. When you got back there, who
3 all was there?
4 A. I can't tell you everyone that was
5 there. I met up with Sergeant David Nabors, and James
6 Cron.
7 Q. Was Nabors in charge of coordinating
8 things?
9 A. The crime scene, yes, sir.
10 Q. That was his responsibility?
11 A. Yes, sir.
12 Q. That would be a Sergeant Nabors?
13 A. Yes, sir.
14 Q. Okay. And he is one of the people
15 that -- he has not testified in this case to your
16 knowledge, has he?
17 A. No, sir, he has not.
18 Q. Okay. But it was his job to
19 coordinate the crime scene?
20 A. Yes, sir.
21 Q. And he would determine what was picked
22 up, and what wasn't, and things of that nature?
23 A. That would be part of his job. Yes,
24 sir.
25 Q. Okay. As the chief investigator
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4119

1 assigned to this offense, you would coordinate your
2 investigation with Sergeant Nabors, I suspect?
3 A. Yes, sir.
4 Q. Did you walk through the scene?
5 A. Yes, sir.
6 Q. Okay. And what was your purpose in
7 doing that?
8 A. James Cron and Nabors took me through
9 the scene, just to show me what they were -- you know,
10 what it looked like had happened in there.
11 Q. Okay. And, what time was that?
12 A. Well, if I got back at shortly before
13 8:00, it was around 8:00; or shortly before 9:00, then it
14 was around 9:00.
15 Q. Okay. So you did it shortly after you
16 arrived back at that area; is that right?
17 A. Yes, sir.
18 Q. Okay. And, at that time, were they
19 processing the scene?
20 A. There had been -- my understanding was
21 that there had been photographs taken.
22 Q. Okay. Had it been processed for
23 fingerprints?
24 A. I don't know.
25 Q. Well, if you went through the scene,
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4120

1 Detective, you are probably an old hand at investigating
2 murder cases, aren't you?
3 A. What do you mean an old hand at it?
4 Q. Well, I mean, this wasn't your first
5 one, was it?
6 A. No, sir, it was not.
7 Q. How many had you investigated before?
8 A. I have been on over 50 death
9 investigation scenes.
10 Q. Okay. Well, that wasn't my question.
11 I was talking about murder scenes?
12 A. I have been on 5 or 6 or 7 murder
13 scenes.
14 Q. You have been on some here lately,
15 have you?
16 A. I have worked on -- I investigated one
17 just prior to this one.
18 Q. Okay. How many have you done for
19 Rowlett?
20 A. That I have actually investigated, or
21 personally been involved in, is 5 or 6.
22 Q. Okay. Counting this?
23 A. Yes, sir.
24 Q. Are you counting this as one, or are
25 you counting this as three or two?
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4121

1 A. I am just counting this as one.
2 Q. Okay. So, how long have you been a
3 police officer?
4 A. For 17 and a half years.
5 Q. Okay. So you -- that would be one
6 every, what, 3 years, approximately?
7 A. No, sir.
8 Q. Okay.
9 A. That I have actually been involved in?
10 Q. Well, you said 5 or 6?
11 A. Well, that is only since I have been a
12 detective.
13 Q. Okay. How long have you been a
14 detective?
15 A. Eight years.
16 Q. Okay. So that is one every year and a
17 half?
18 A. Approximately, yeah.
19 Q. Okay. You have been through enough of
20 them where you can tell if something has been dusted for
21 fingerprints, can't you?
22 A. Yes, sir.
23 Q. And how do you tell?
24 A. By the powder.
25 Q. Okay. Had this crime scene been
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4122

1 dusted for fingerprints?
2 A. I didn't look.
3 Q. Well, I mean, you can't help -- you
4 can't miss it if they have dusted it for fingerprints,
5 can you?
6 A. Well, I wasn't -- all we did at that
7 particular time, was just walking through the crime
8 scene. I wasn't watching what other people were doing.
9 Q. All right. Now, when you got out to
10 the garage to the window, you looked at that, didn't you?
11 A. Yes, sir.
12 Q. Okay. Did you see any fingerprint
13 polish -- powder on that?
14 A. Not that I recall.
15 Q. Okay. So you are telling the jury
16 that that had not been printed prior to --
17 A. No, sir, I'm not telling them that.
18 Q. You are just telling them --
19 A. I'm just saying that I don't recall
20 that.
21 Q. Well, and you didn't take any notes?
22 A. No, sir.
23 Q. Okay. Did you notice how close the
24 screen was to the actual window itself?
25 A. The screen was attached to the window.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4123

1 Q. Okay. Did you notice how close the
2 screen was to the actual windowpane?
3 A. No, sir.
4 Q. Okay. Would it be fair to say that it
5 was very close? Less than an inch?
6 A. I couldn't tell you.
7 Q. Okay. That just didn't seem important
8 at the time?
9 A. Well, I'm not saying it's not
10 important, but I didn't sit there and take measurements
11 on how far the distance between the screen and the
12 window.
13 Q. Well, you could just eyeball it
14 though, couldn't you?
15 A. Well, I could have, but, you know, I
16 didn't do it that way.
17 Q. All right. So you don't have any idea
18 how far the window was from the screen?
19 A. Well, I would say that it was pretty
20 close. It's attached to the window.
21 Q. Okay. So that would limit it some,
22 wouldn't it?
23 A. Yes, sir.
24 Q. And if they were right together, don't
25 you reckon that probably the screen or the window is
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4124

1 close enough to the screen as possible, just far enough
2 away, so that the screen doesn't interfere with the
3 window as the window was raised up and down?
4 A. Yes, sir.
5 Q. Okay. The screen is on the outside
6 and the window is on the inside, isn't it?
7 A. The window is on the inside and the
8 screen on the outside, yes, sir.
9 Q. That makes sense, doesn't it?
10 A. Yes, sir.
11 Q. Okay. And it makes sense that it's
12 close, the purpose being, that you want to leave room for
13 the window to go up and down, so that the screen doesn't
14 interfere with it. But you want it as close as possible?
15 A. Yes, sir.
16 Q. That makes sense, doesn't it?
17 A. Yes, sir, that makes sense.
18 Q. Okay. And if it would work that way,
19 you would probably have -- it probably -- that probably
20 would have seemed unusual to you, and you probably would
21 have remembered that?
22 A. If it wasn't which way?
23 Q. If it wasn't like we discussed, it
24 probably would have looked unusual, and that would have
25 attracted your attention, and you would have, perhaps
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4125

1 reserved that in the halls of your memory?
2 A. I'm not sure what you are getting at.
3 Q. I'm not trying to trick you, I'm just
4 trying to figure out what you saw. You didn't take any
5 notes, did you?
6 A. No, sir.
7 Q. All right. At any rate --
8
9 THE COURT: I think we have
10 established that the gentleman did not take any notes.
11 MR. DOUGLAS D. MULDER: Well, Judge, I
12 keep thinking that he may whip out that whip-out book at
13 any time.
14 THE COURT: I see. Well, let's just
15 move on to the next question.
16 MR. DOUGLAS D. MULDER: All right.
17
18 BY MR. DOUGLAS D. MULDER:
19 Q. At any rate, did you look at the
20 outside of the window?
21 A. Yes, sir.
22 Q. Okay. And did you see some mulch
23 there?
24 A. Out in the back yard?
25 Q. Yes, sir.
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1 A. Yes, sir.
2 Q. All right. And did that appear to be
3 disturbed or undisturbed?
4 A. It didn't appear to be disturbed to
5 me.
6 Q. Okay. How does it look when it's
7 disturbed versus when it's undisturbed?
8 A. What I'm going to have to go on, is
9 what James Cron, another person that was there, along
10 with David Nabors told me about that.
11 Q. Okay. So you are telling me that you
12 can't look at mulch yourself, and determine whether it's
13 been disturbed or undisturbed?
14 A. I think from the time that I got out
15 there and looked at that, that you are talking about the
16 difference between several hours, and, you know, it may
17 be a little bit different from what I saw.
18 Q. Well, I mean, mulch is mulch, isn't
19 it?
20 A. It is, but I think that you are going
21 have to -- it's going to be different when it's
22 somewhat -- from the time that the crime scene unit gets
23 there, and they start looking at this, versus me looking
24 at it, several hours after that.
25 Q. Okay. It's fair to say that you
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1 didn't see anything unusual about it shortly after 8:00
2 or shortly after 9:00 or whatever time you got out there?
3 A. I can't tell you that it -- you know,
4 whether it was disturbed or not.
5 Q. Okay. There was nothing -- was there
6 anything about it that attracted your attention to it?
7 A. I can't tell you that it -- not to me,
8 no.
9 Q. All right. Did you, in the light of
10 day then, did you examine that gate?
11 A. Yes, sir.
12 Q. And what did you observe about the
13 gate?
14 A. I didn't see that -- well, I have to
15 go on what the crime scene officer tells me, because that
16 is part of his notes, and that is part of what he is
17 going to tell me.
18 Q. Well, I understand that, but I'm just
19 talking about what you personally saw. Did you see
20 anything unusual about it?
21 A. I didn't see any blood on the gate.
22 Q. Okay. That would have been unusual?
23 A. Yes, sir.
24 Q. Okay. You didn't see any blood.
25 Anything else?
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1 A. No, sir.
2 Q. Would you have expected to see blood?
3 A. If someone had been inside that house
4 and went out that door I would.
5 Q. Okay. And why is that?
6 A. If someone had been in that -- if an
7 intruder had been in that house, they would have had to
8 have some blood on them, and there wasn't any evidence in
9 the garage of blood, or going out the window of blood.
10 Q. Okay. You figured that the intruder
11 had to have been injured?
12 A. I wouldn't say had been injured.
13 Q. Cut his hands, perhaps?
14 A. No.
15 Q. Cut his leg?
16 A. No.
17 Q. Cut his face?
18 A. I don't know.
19 Q. Well, why would you expect -- where
20 would you expect the blood on the intruder to be?
21 A. On his feet.
22 Q. Okay. Police officers walked
23 throughout that house from the den area through the
24 kitchen, you didn't see any tracks from the police
25 officers, did you?
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1 A. No, sir.
2 Q. Okay.
3 A. It's my understanding that they were
4 careful enough that they didn't step in any blood.
5 Q. Okay. Would you expect to find blood
6 on his hands?
7 A. I don't know.
8 Q. Okay. Well, maybe yes and maybe no?
9 A. I don't know.
10 Q. Okay. How long were you there at the
11 scene?
12 A. That morning?
13 Q. Yes, sir.
14 A. I don't recall.
15 Q. And you didn't make any notes while
16 you were there, however long you were there?
17 A. I didn't take any handwritten notes,
18 no.
19 Q. Okay. What time did you get off duty
20 or what time did you finally leave?
21 A. That day?
22 Q. Yes, sir.
23 A. It was sometime late in the evening.
24 I don't recall what time I left.
25 Q. Was it dark?
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1 A. I don't remember it being dark.
2 Q. It was sometime before dark?
3 A. Yes, sir.
4 Q. When you left?
5 A. Yes, sir.
6 Q. You don't recall going back to Baylor
7 Hospital?
8 A. No, sir.
9 Q. Okay. Did you go to Baylor Hospital
10 the next day?
11 A. Yes, sir.
12 Q. Okay. And about what time did you get
13 there?
14 A. Sometime late in the afternoon.
15 Q. Okay. Just give me your best guess.
16 A. I don't know, sometime late in the
17 afternoon.
18 Q. All right. Before it got dark?
19 A. I don't remember if it was dark or
20 not.
21 Q. Okay. And, can we assume that you
22 continued your usual practice of not taking notes? Can
23 we assume that you didn't take any notes?
24 A. I didn't take any notes, no.
25 Q. All right. Did you go see Darlie
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1 Routier?
2 A. Yes, sir.
3 Q. All right. And how long did you spend
4 with her?
5 A. Fifteen minutes.
6 Q. Okay. Did you visit with her?
7 A. Just for a few minutes, yes, sir.
8 Q. Okay. Did you ask her what had
9 happened again out there?
10 A. No, sir.
11 Q. Okay. Who was -- was Frosch with
12 you?
13 A. Yes, sir.
14 Q. Okay. Was anyone with her?
15 A. There were several people there.
16 Q. Do you recall who was there?
17 A. No, sir.
18 Q. Were they family members, or medical
19 personnel?
20 A. Well, there was someone sitting at the
21 front door, or sitting in her room door, I believe it was
22 a security officer, but I don't remember who was there.
23 Q. Okay. But you remember that people
24 were there?
25 A. There were other people there, yes.
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1 Q. Okay. And, are you telling us that
2 nothing of any import happened at that encounter?
3 A. No, sir.
4 Q. You are not telling us that?
5 A. We didn't talk about what had
6 happened, no.
7 Q. Okay. Just, "How are you? How are
8 you getting along? How is the food?"
9 A. Well, we checked on her well-being,
10 yes.
11 Q. Okay. But nothing about the case?
12 A. No.
13 Q. Okay. And, you say that encounter
14 took about 10 or 15 minutes?
15 A. Yes, sir.
16 Q. Something like that?
17 A. Yes, sir.
18 Q. Okay. And Frosch was with you?
19 A. Yes, sir, he was.
20 Q. Did he take any notes?
21 A. No, sir.
22 Q. Okay. You are sure about that?
23 A. No, I'm not sure. You would have to
24 ask Frosch about that.
25 Q. Okay. Well --
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1 A. I don't remember, I don't know.
2 Q. Okay. Well, first you said no, and
3 then I said are you sure about that, and then --
4 A. Well, I don't know if he took any
5 notes or not.
6 Q. Okay. But you know you didn't?
7 A. I know I did not.
8 Q. Okay. And you left after that?
9 A. Yes, sir.
10 Q. When is the next time you saw Darlie
11 Routier?
12 A. January -- I mean, June the 8th, 1996.
13 Q. That would be the next day?
14 A. Yes, sir.
15 Q. Okay. Now the 6th would be on a
16 Thursday, is that right?
17 A. Yes, sir.
18 Q. The 7th was Friday?
19 A. Yes, sir.
20 Q. And the 8th would be a Saturday?
21 A. Yes, sir.
22 Q. Okay. About what time did you see
23 her, and where did you see her?
24 A. At the police station. And I believe
25 it was -- I would have to look at my notes, but I believe
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1 it was after 4:00 o'clock.
2 Q. Okay. So the first time you saw her
3 on the 8th, which is Saturday, is going to be at the
4 police station?
5 A. Yes, sir.
6 Q. Okay. And, how did she come in there,
7 do you know?
8 A. What do you mean how did she come in
9 there?
10 Q. How did she arrive? Was it by car?
11 A. By two of our detectives.
12 Q. All right. Who had picked her up?
13 A. Detective James Latham and Keith
14 Needham.
15 Q. Okay. And where had they picked her
16 up, do you know?
17 A. At Baylor Hospital.
18 Q. Okay. And then they brought her to
19 your -- to the Rowlett Police Department?
20 A. Yes, sir.
21 Q. Okay. And was that at your
22 instruction?
23 A. I had asked if they would come in and
24 talk to us, yes, Darlie and Darin Routier.
25 Q. Okay. And did they cooperate with
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1 you?
2 A. Yes, sir, they did.
3 Q. All right. And, did you visit with
4 them?
5 A. Yes, sir.
6 Q. Okay. And as best you recall they got
7 there around 4:00 o'clock?
8 A. Yes, sir.
9 Q. Again, no notes were made of this?
10 A. I have a -- I would know the exact
11 time, when I look at what I had read her. I read her the
12 Miranda rights, and it has the time on it.
13 Q. Okay. As a matter of fact, the
14 Miranda rights, that is what you read someone before you
15 take a statement from them frequently, isn't it?
16 A. Yes, sir.
17 Q. Okay. And, you read that to her?
18 A. Yes, sir.
19 Q. And that basically says that, you have
20 a right to remain silent. You have the right to counsel.
21 You can have a lawyer here. You can answer questions.
22 You can refuse to answer questions. You can, basically
23 not cooperate with us if you don't want to. Basically
24 that is what it is?
25 A. Well, that is kind of what it says,
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1 yes.
2 Q. Okay. But it starts out, it says "You
3 have a right to remain silent." It says, "Anything you
4 say can and may be used against you in a court of law."
5 Doesn't it?
6 A. Well, I don't know if it starts off
7 that way. I would have to read the one that I read to
8 her.
9 Q. Okay. How long you been doing this?
10 A. For 17 and a half years.
11 Q. Okay. All right. At any rate, did
12 she give you a statement?
13 A. She gave us a voluntary written
14 statement, yes, sir.
15 Q. Okay. And you asked her to, didn't
16 you?
17 A. I asked her if she wanted to.
18 Q. And she cooperated with you, didn't
19 she?
20 A. And she did, yes.
21 Q. How about Darin, was he cooperative?
22 A. Yes, sir.
23 Q. Okay. And by that I mean, did he go
24 so far as to give you the keys to his house?
25 A. No.
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1 Q. Did he give you the keys to his
2 business?
3 A. I don't know about that.
4 Q. Did he give you the keys to his boat?
5 A. I don't know about that.
6 Q. Well, I mean what does that mean?
7 Does that mean he may have?
8 A. Well, someone --
9 Q. Well, does that mean he may have?
10 A. Well, someone else was doing that, and
11 I don't know if he did or didn't.
12 Q. Okay.
13 A. I don't know if he let them in, or if
14 he gave the keys to them. Someone else went over there
15 and done that.
16 Q. All right. Would you recognize her
17 statement?
18 A. Yes, sir.
19
20 MR. DOUGLAS D. MULDER: Let me get
21 this marked.
22
23 (Whereupon, the following
24 mentioned item was
25 marked for
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1 identification only as
2 Defendant's Exhibit No. 76,
3 after which time the
4 proceedings were
5 resumed on the record
6 in open court, as
7 follows:)
8
9 BY MR. DOUGLAS D. MULDER:
10 Q. Let me show you what's been marked for
11 identification and record purposes as Defendant's Exhibit
12 No. 76, and it appears to be a handwritten statement of
13 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 pages. Is that her
14 statement?
15 A. Yes, sir.
16 Q. Okay. And you remember that statement
17 being given to you?
18 A. Yes, sir.
19 Q. Okay.
20
21 MR. DOUGLAS D. MULDER: We will offer
22 into evidence what has been marked and identified as
23 Defendant's Exhibit No. 76, which is her statement.
24 MR. GREG DAVIS: No objection.

25 MR. DOUGLAS D. MULDER: Do y'all mind
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1 if I just --
2 THE COURT: Excuse me, Defendant's
3 Exhibit 76 is admitted.
4
5 (Whereupon, the above
6 mentioned item was
7 received in evidence as
8 Defendant's Exhibit No. 76
9 for all purposes,
10 after which time,
11 the proceedings were
12 resumed on the record,
13 as follows:)
14
15 MR. DOUGLAS D. MULDER: Do you all
16 mind if I take this out or do you --
17 MR. GREG DAVIS: Well, I tell you
18 what, I have got the original. It's been marked as
19 State's Exhibit --
20 THE COURT: Can we substitute that?
21 MR. DOUGLAS D. MULDER: Excuse me,
22 Judge, this is Defendant's Exhibit No. 76-A.
23
24 (Whereupon, the following
25 mentioned item was
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1 marked for
2 identification only as
3 Defendant's Exhibit No. 76-A
4 after which time the
5 proceedings were
6 resumed on the record
7 in open court, as
8 follows:)
9
10 MR. GREG DAVIS: Yes, sir, that will
11 be fine. It already has State's Exhibit No. 32 on it.
12 But, I'll tell you what, if you don't mind, let me just
13 offer State's Exhibit 32 as being the original of
14 Defendant's Exhibit No. 76.
15
16 (Whereupon, the following
17 mentioned item was
18 marked for
19 identification only
20 as State's Exhibit 32,
21 after which time the
22 proceedings were
23 resumed on the record
24 in open court, as
25 follows:)
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1
2 MR. DOUGLAS D. MULDER: Well, inasmuch
3 as this is my case and I am the one offering the
4 evidence, if you don't mind, I'll just mark it myself.
5 MR. GREG DAVIS: Whatever you like.
6 THE COURT: Gentlemen.
7 MR. DOUGLAS D. MULDER: Well, Judge, I
8 just want it clear, who is offering the statement.
9 THE COURT: Gentlemen. Oh, we
10 understand that you are offering the statement. Let's
11 just get it numbered, and marked and offered and let's
12 move on.
13 MR. DOUGLAS D. MULDER: Judge, I'm
14 peddling as fast as I can. If you will --
15 THE COURT: And we appreciate the
16 effort. All right. This is going to be Defendant's
17 Exhibit 76-A; is that correct, Mr. Mulder?
18 MR. DOUGLAS D. MULDER: Yes, sir,
19 that's correct.
20 THE COURT: All right. No objection I
21 assume, Mr. Davis?
22 MR. GREG DAVIS: No objection.
23 THE COURT: All right. Defendant's
24 Exhibit 76-A is admitted.
25
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1 (Whereupon, the above
2 mentioned item was
3 received in evidence as
4 Defendant's Exhibit No. 76-A,
5 and as State's Exhibit No. 32,
6 for all purposes
7 after which time,
8 the proceedings were
9 resumed on the record,
10 as follows:)
11
12 MR. DOUGLAS D. MULDER: Is this in
13 order?
14 MR. GREG DAVIS: Yes, sir, it should
15 be.
16 MR. DOUGLAS D. MULDER: Well, let me
17 just put a staple in there, is that agreeable with
18 everybody?
19 MR. GREG DAVIS: Yes, that is fine.
20 MR. DOUGLAS D. MULDER: Judge, I would
21 like to read this, if I may.
22 THE COURT: That will be fine.
23 MR. DOUGLAS D. MULDER: Okay. I'll
24 read the whole thing.
25 "6-8-96, 4:49 P.M., Darlie Lynn
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4143

1 Routier, 5801 Eagle Drive, Rowlett, Texas, 75088. Time:
2 4:49 P.M. Place: 4401 Rowlett Road, Rowlett Police
3 Department. Officer: Detective J. Patterson, number
4 1004, City of Rowlett, Texas. County of Dallas, State of
5 Texas.
6 "Police officer, Detective J.
7 Patterson, the person to whom I make this written
8 statement, has warned me: 1. That I have the right to
9 have a lawyer present to advise me prior to and during
10 any questioning. 2. If I am unable to employ a lawyer,
11 I have the right to have a lawyer appointed to me, to
12 advise me prior to and during any questioning. 3. I
13 have the right to remain silent and not make any
14 statement at all, and that any statement that I make, may
15 be used in evidence against me at my trial. 4. I have
16 the right to terminate the interview at any time. 5.
17 Any statement that I make may be used against me in
18 court. I do not want to consult with a lawyer prior to
19 and during the answering of any questions or the making
20 of this statement. I fully understand, and do hereby
21 knowingly, intelligently, and voluntarily waive the above
22 explained rights, and I do make this following voluntary
23 statement to the aforementioned person, of my own free
24 will, and without any promises or offers of leniency or
25 favors, and through no fear, coercion, or threat of
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1 physical harm, by any person whomsoever.
2 "I am 26 years of age. Have completed
3 12 years of formal education. And can" -- is
4 underlined -- "read, write and understand the English
5 language."
6 You have can and cannot there, and I
7 guess you underline one?
8 A. I asked her if she can, and she said
9 she could.
10 Q. All right.
11 "Darin and my sister Dana came home
12 from working at the shop. The boys were playing with the
13 neighborhood kids outside. I was finishing up dinner.
14 Damon came home and Devon called, and I told him to be
15 home soon, because we were going to eat.
16 "Darin played with the baby Drake with
17 Dana a while, and I had pulled everything together to
18 eat. Devon came home, and we all ate dinner together.
19 After we ate, we cleaned all the plates. I was changing
20 Drake, while Darin put everything in some containers, for
21 leftovers. We all talked a little about how happy we
22 were that the shop had been so busy for the past three
23 weeks, and that we hoped it would continue, since work
24 had been slow for a couple of months. Devon and Damon
25 asked if they could play with one of their friends a
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1 little while longer, and so we said okay.
2 "Darin, Dana and I just sat around and
3 watched a little TV. Later, and I'm not sure of the
4 exact time, I asked Darin to drive Dana, my sister, home
5 because I wasn't feeling too well. While Darin was gone,
6 the boys brought down their blankets and pillows and
7 asked if they could watch TV. I said, 'Yes.' They came
8 downstairs and played on the floor in front of the TV
9 with Drake while I made some popcorn.
10 "About 20 or 25 minutes later, Darin
11 came in, and sat down with us while we watched TV. Drake
12 started to get fussy, so I made him a bottle, and I
13 believe Darin fed him the bottle. Soon after the boys
14 both fell asleep, Darin took the baby upstairs, and put
15 him in his crib and came back downstairs.
16 "We talked a while about a few
17 problems we were having with the car, and the boat, and
18 had a few words between us. Since I had the baby, I had
19 been having some depression. I told Darin that I was
20 depressed because I had not been able to take the boys
21 anywhere because we only had one car.
22 "He told me that he loved me, and
23 asked me if I wanted him to sleep downstairs with me
24 because I wanted to stay up a while and watch TV. I told
25 him no, because I didn't think that he would be able to
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1 sleep on the couch and get any sleep. I had been
2 sleeping on the couch the past week or so, off and on,
3 because the baby slept in our room in the crib, and when
4 he moved, he woke me up.
5 "Darin and I laid together for a
6 little while, and then decided to go to sleep because he
7 had work the next day. This was around 12:30 or 1:00,
8 I'm not sure. He kissed me and said he loved me, and I
9 told him I loved him and would see him in the morning.
10 "After a while, I started to get
11 sleepy. The next thing, I woke up, and felt a pressure
12 on me. I felt Damon press on my right shoulder, and
13 heard him cry. This made me really come awake, and
14 realized there was a man standing down at my feet,
15 walking away from me. I walked after him, and heard
16 glass breaking. I got halfway through the kitchen, and
17 turned back around to run and turn on the light. I ran
18 back towards the utility room, and realized there was a
19 big, white-handled knife lying on the floor. It was then
20 that I realized that I had blood all over me, and I
21 grabbed the knife, thinking he was in the garage.
22 "I looked over and saw the door shut
23 to the garage, and so I thought he might still be in
24 there, and I needed to get Darin. I ran back through the
25 kitchen, and realized that the entire living room area
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1 had blood all over everything. I put the knife on the
2 counter and ran into the entrance, turned on the light
3 and started screaming for Darin. I think I screamed
4 twice, and he ran out of the bedroom with his jeans on,
5 and no glasses and was yelling, 'What is it? What is
6 it?'
7 "I remember saying that he cut them.
8 'He tried to kill me. My neck.' He ran down the stairs
9 and into the room where the boys were. I grabbed the
10 phone and called 911. Darin started giving Devon CPR
11 while I put a towel on my neck, and a towel on Damon's
12 back. I remember telling Damon to hang on, Mommy was
13 there. I looked over at Darin, and saw the glass table
14 had been knocked half way off, and the flower arrangement
15 had been knocked over. I then stood up and turned around
16 and saw glass all over the kitchen floor.
17 "I tried to glance over to see if
18 anything was out of place, or if anything was missing. I
19 took a few steps, and opened the door and screamed for
20 Karen. I was still on the phone with 911. I don't
21 recall what all was said, because everything was
22 happening so fast.
23 "I went back to Damon, and by him, he
24 had stopped moving, and the police walked through the
25 door. The paramedics came and tried to work on the
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1 children. Darin was screaming, 'Who did this? Who did
2 this?' And I started asking if my babies were dead.
3 "Darin was crying and said yes. After
4 that, I just remember screaming, and showing Darin my
5 neck. Darin took me out the front of the house, and by
6 then Darin ran upstairs to make sure the baby was okay.
7 He showed me Drake was okay, and then handed him to
8 Karen, our neighbor. I remember them holding a towel on
9 my neck. And, wiping my arm, and then he put me in the
10 ambulance. Darin got in, but they told him he needed to
11 leave, so they could take me -- so they could take care
12 of me.
13 "I remember get (sic) to the hospital
14 and then them telling me they were taking me to surgery.
15 They took me -- they took off my necklace and put me to
16 sleep. I woke up, and minutes later, the detectives were
17 there asking me all kind of questions."
18 And she signed it "Darlie Routier."
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. And that is her statement as you
21 recall it?
22 A. Her written statement, yes.
23 Q. Yes, sir. Now, in the course of that,
24 Detective Patterson, you had asked her questions, had you
25 not?
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4149

1 A. You mean that there?
2 Q. Yes.
3 A. While she was writing that?
4 Q. Yes, sir.
5 A. No, sir.
6 Q. Okay. You had had your conversation
7 with her ahead of time?
8 A. Yes, sir.
9 Q. Okay. And, do you recall in that
10 conversation ahead of time, that you had briefly gone
11 through this entire statement?
12 A. What do you mean?
13 Q. Well, do you remember whether or not
14 you questioned her, prior to the time that she sat down
15 and write this out?
16 A. No, I didn't do that.
17 Q. What did you do?
18 A. Well, I mean she wrote that out, and I
19 didn't talk to her about it, while she was writing. I
20 didn't talk to her while she was writing that out.
21 Q. Had you talked to her before she wrote
22 this out?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. Okay. And how long did you talk to
25 her before she wrote this statement out?
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1 A. Just a few minutes.
2 Q. Is that 10 or 15 minutes?
3 A. I couldn't tell you.
4 Q. Okay. But at any rate, the time that
5 she began writing this statement was 4:49, or is that
6 when you read the --
7 A. I read the Miranda rights to her, and
8 then I talked to her.
9 Q. Okay. And again you had told her,
10 Detective Patterson, had you not, that you were following
11 a bunch of leads in this case, hadn't you?
12 A. Yes, sir.
13 Q. Okay. Now, had you made up your mind
14 by that time, that she was your prime suspect?
15 A. No, sir.
16 Q. Okay. What leads were you following
17 at that time, Detective Patterson?
18 A. The leads as far as what the crime
19 scene was showing. What her first statement was that
20 she, you know, gave me. That written statement right
21 there.
22 Plus we had two other detectives that
23 was (sic) taking statements that people were calling in,
24 which we call lead sheets.
25 Q. Lead sheets, what are lead sheets?
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4151

1 A. Lead sheets is where someone will call
2 in that they saw some kind of suspicious activity.
3 Q. Um-hum. (Attorney nodding head
4 affirmatively.)
5 A. That they remember something, and
6 these other two detectives were following up with those
7 sheets.
8 Q. Okay. Were they following up on this
9 black car that had been seen out there in the vicinity?
10 A. Well, yes, sir.
11 Q. And, who was following up on the black
12 car?
13 A. Either James Latham or Keith Needham.
14 Q. Okay. Had you all received a call
15 that a man who fit the description that you had given of
16 the assailant, had been spotted in the vicinity?
17 A. No, sir.
18 Q. Okay. Do you recall a man by the name
19 of Reggie Salter?
20 A. Yes, sir.
21 Q. Well, he called in, didn't he?
22 A. Yes, sir.
23 Q. Okay. And didn't he report seeing a
24 man in a black baseball cap, and in a black shirt, and
25 dark jeans the next morning?
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1 A. He called in the next morning.
2 Q. Yes, sir.
3 A. Yeah, but that was on the other end of
4 town.
5 Q. Oh, it was on the other end of town?
6 A. Yes, sir.
7 Q. Well, how big is Rowlett?
8 A. Twenty-two or 23 square miles.
9 Q. Okay. How long does it take to drive
10 from one end of town to the other end of town?
11 A. Right now with the traffic, a long
12 time.
13 Q. All right. Without traffic, if you
14 are doing it after midnight, you can do it in 4 or 5
15 minutes, can't you?
16 A. No, it would take you longer than
17 that.
18 Q. Well, not much?
19 A. Well, I can't tell you, I didn't time
20 it.
21 Q. Well, you can drive from Interstate 30
22 to Highway 66 in 5 or 6 minutes, can't you?
23 A. I don't know.
24 Q. Well, you can do it in less than 10,
25 can't you?
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1 A. I don't know.
2 Q. You don't know about that either?
3 A. No, sir.
4 Q. Okay. Now, Detective Patterson, in
5 the course of your investigation, you found out that
6 Darin had worked on the gate that evening, didn't you?
7 The evening before?
8 A. The day before?
9 Q. That evening before. The evening of
10 the 5th of June?
11 A. Well, I remember the day before, and I
12 don't know if that puts it on the 4th or the 5th.
13 Q. Okay. But you did verify that he had,
14 in fact, worked on the gate, a short time before this
15 happened, didn't you?
16 A. How did we verify it?
17 Q. Well, you are the -- all of the
18 information, remember, is funneled through you?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. Not through me, but through you?
21 A. Well, I mean --
22 Q. Well, you talked to the neighbor
23 behind you (sic), and the neighbor behind said they saw
24 him working on it.
25 A. Well, I didn't talk to the neighbor
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
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1 behind.
2 Q. I know it, but there is a report to
3 that effect, isn't there?
4 A. Well, I know that the gate looked like
5 it had been worked on.
6 Q. Well, did you talk -- did somebody
7 talk to the neighbor behind?
8 A. No, not that I know of. I don't know.
9 Q. Okay. Well, have you read your
10 report?
11 A. No, I don't remember seeing that
12 report.
13 Q. Have you read your file?
14 A. Have I? Yes, sir.
15 Q. When did you last read it?
16 A. I just read bits and pieces of it just
17 the last few weeks. I have not read the whole thing in
18 several, several months.
19 Q. Okay. At one time I assume you read
20 it. I mean, that is the purpose of getting these
21 reports, is to assimilate it all, isn't it?
22 A. Yes, sir.
23 Q. Okay. I mean you are the guy who is
24 supposed to be --
25 A. There is no way I can remember it all.
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1 Q. Well, you don't have to remember it
2 all, but you can -- you are telling me you don't have
3 anything in your file about that?
4 A. No, sir.
5 Q. Okay. When you walked through the
6 residence there, you got into the kitchen, didn't you,
7 Detective Patterson?
8 A. Yes, sir.
9 Q. Did you see the broken glass on the
10 kitchen floor?
11 A. Yes, sir.
12 Q. Okay. And was Officer Mayne with you?
13 A. No, sir.
14 Q. Did you talk to Officer Mayne out at
15 the scene?
16 A. No, I talked to Nabors and James Cron.
17 Q. Okay. Were you careful not to step in
18 any of the glass?
19 A. I didn't step in any of the glass.
20 Q. Okay. Did you check your shoes after
21 you got back out of the house to see if there was glass
22 in the soles of your shoes?
23 A. What I did was, is that I didn't go
24 through the part where the glass was laying.
25 Q. Okay. So you didn't come up on the
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1 wine rack then, did you?
2 A. I saw the wine rack.
3 Q. But you didn't get close enough to
4 inspect it?
5 A. I could see it from where I was.
6 Q. How far were you from the wine rack?
7 A. A few feet.
8 Q. Okay. But, not close enough to step
9 on any glass?
10 A. No, sir.
11 Q. Okay. When you got out of the house,
12 did you look at the bottoms of your shoes?
13 A. No, sir, I did not.
14 Q. You didn't?
15 A. No, sir.
16 Q. It might have been a good practice to
17 see if you had, in fact, stepped in any glass?
18 A. I didn't step in any glass.
19 Q. Well, how do you know until you look
20 at the bottom --
21 A. I didn't step anywhere around where
22 that glass was on that linoleum floor.
23 Q. Well, I know that, Detective, but, did
24 it ever cross your mind that maybe somebody else had
25 tracked glass in, and in stepping on the carpet you would
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1 have stepped on that glass and tracked it around?
2 A. Well, I didn't check my soles, but I
3 didn't step in any glass.
4 Q. You have seen police officers at the
5 scene of an offense before, haven't you?
6 A. Yes, sir.
7 Q. Everybody wants to touch the gun,
8 don't they?
9 A. No.
10 Q. They don't? They don't want to touch
11 the weapons?
12 A. No, sir.
13 Q. They all stand back, and, in fact,
14 it's probably not even necessary to put people at the
15 door, and put tape around to keep the officers out, is
16 it?
17 A. Well, you know, with our department,
18 we don't have to worry too much about those officers
19 doing that, because they are pretty well trained and they
20 know exactly what to do. That tape is to keep, you know,
21 bystanders out.
22 Q. Okay.
23 A. It's to keep other people out.
24 Q. Okay. Did you determine that there
25 was, in fact, a security light out in the back yard?
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1 A. I was told there was.
2 Q. Well, did you ever go out there?
3 A. I saw the security light.
4 Q. Okay. So you were not only told it,
5 but you saw it?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. Okay. And, did you know where you had
8 to go in the back yard to activate that light?
9 A. No.
10 Q. Okay. Well, I mean, a light just
11 comes on when you go in the back yard?
12 A. I didn't check that. David Nabors
13 checked that.
14 Q. Okay. And did he -- he conducted some
15 experiments out there, didn't he?
16 A. I believe he did, but you will have to
17 ask him. I don't know, I wasn't there.
18 Q. Well, he filled out a report, didn't
19 he?
20 A. Yes, sir.
21 Q. Did you read the report?
22 A. No, sir.
23 Q. Well now, wait a minute now. You are
24 the chief detective and these reports --
25 A. His report says that the light stays
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1 on for somewhere around 18 minutes.
2 Q. Is that all it says?
3 A. Well, there's more pages to it than
4 that.
5 Q. Okay. Well, did you read his report
6 or not?
7 A. Yes, sir, I did.
8 Q. Okay. Well, you told the jury that
9 you didn't?
10 A. Well, I know, but I did.
11 Q. You did?
12 A. Yes, sir.
13 Q. Okay. Well, I mean, any reason you
14 would tell them that you didn't read it?
15 A. No, it was just my mistake for saying
16 that I didn't.
17 Q. Okay. As a matter of fact, in the
18 report he says that --
19
20 MR. GREG DAVIS: I'm going to object
21 to that as being hearsay.
22 THE COURT: Sustained.
23 MR. GREG DAVIS: He can ask David
24 Nabors about it.
25 THE COURT: Sustained.
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1
2 BY MR. DOUGLAS D. MULDER:
3 Q. David Nabors is here, is he?
4 A. Yes, sir.
5 Q. Okay. And, you know from your
6 investigation that you don't have -- that you can walk
7 from that window to the gate, on the paved, exposed
8 aggregate there, and not activate the light. You know
9 that, don't you?
10 A. No, I do not know that.
11 Q. Okay. Let me ask you, while they are
12 looking for Mr. Nabors' report, let me ask you this:
13 There was a viewing of the body, is that right? Of the
14 youngster's body?
15 A. Yes, sir.
16 Q. Okay. And after that, there was a
17 funeral the next day?
18 A. Yes, sir.
19 Q. Did you attend the funeral?
20 A. Yes, sir.
21 Q. Okay. And then I believe, on the
22 14th, there was a prayer service at the grave side, were
23 you aware of that?
24 A. Yes, sir.
25 Q. Okay. And, did you attend that?
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1 A. No, sir.
2 Q. Did you place a microphone by the
3 grave side for the prayer service, so that you could
4 record and intercept things that were said at the grave
5 side?
6 A. I did not.
7 Q. Who did?
8 A. Two other detectives.
9 Q. Why did they do that?
10 A. In case someone went out there and
11 made a confession about what happened.
12 Q. Did you realize that that was -- was
13 that done with your knowledge?
14 A. Yes, sir.
15 Q. Did you know that that is a violation
16 of federal law? That is a federal felony.
17
18 MR. GREG DAVIS: I'm going to object
19 to that, that calls for some legal conclusion.
20 THE COURT: I will sustain the
21 objection.
22 MR. DOUGLAS D. MULDER: Okay.
23
24 BY MR. DOUGLAS D. MULDER:
25 Q. But you are telling this jury, that
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1 you folks put microphones at the grave side, to monitor
2 the conversations of the people who had gone there to
3 pray, and to mourn and grieve at the passing of these two
4 children?
5 A. Yes, sir.
6 Q. And recorded all that?
7 A. Yes, sir.
8 Q. And these were hidden, so that the
9 people couldn't find them. I mean, it was designed to be
10 done surreptitiously, was it not?
11 A. So that they couldn't -- that they
12 didn't see it, that's right.
13 Q. And you would record those private
14 moments, is that right?
15 A. Yes, we did.
16 Q. Did your -- who all knew about this
17 besides you?
18 A. Detective Frosch.
19 Q. And who else?
20 A. The two detectives that set it up.
21 Q. Okay. But you were a part of it, it
22 was done, not only with your knowledge but at your
23 insistence, wasn't it?
24 A. I didn't insist on anyone to do it.
25 Q. But y'all got together and thought it
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4163

1 would be a good idea?
2 A. Yes, sir.
3 Q. Okay.
4
5 MR. DOUGLAS D. MULDER: Mark this
6 please.
7
8 (Whereupon, the following
9 mentioned item was
10 marked for
11 identification only as
12 Defendant's Exhibit No. 77,
13 after which time the
14 proceedings were
15 resumed on the record
16 in open court, as
17 follows:)
18
19 BY MR. DOUGLAS D. MULDER:
20 Q. Let me hand you what has been marked
21 for identification and record purposes as Defendant's
22 Exhibit No. 77. I'll ask you if that is Sergeant Nabors'
23 report?
24 A. Yes, sir, it is.
25 Q. Does that refresh your memory?
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4164

1 A. Well --
2 Q. Did the district attorney's office
3 know that you had surreptitiously planted microphones at
4 the grave side to monitor those private conversations?
5 A. Could you tell me what that word
6 means?
7 Q. Surreptitiously?
8 A. Yes, sir.
9 Q. Secretly.
10 A. No, I don't remember, I don't think
11 the D.A.'s office knew about that.
12 Q. You didn't tell them? Do you know if
13 that is a violation of state law was well?
14 A. Not that I remember.
15 Q. Okay. Have you reviewed that report?
16 A. I didn't review the whole page, just
17 what is highlighted.
18 Q. Okay. Do you recognize that as having
19 seen it before?
20 A. Um-hum. (Witness nodding head
21 affirmatively.) Yes, sir.
22 Q. Okay. You know, based on your
23 investigation, that you could pass on the paved area,
24 from the window to the gate, and not trip or set off the
25 security lights, don't you?
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4165

1 A. Yes, sir. It says that you can walk
2 on the paved part from the gate to the window without
3 triggering the light.
4 Q. Okay. And you didn't have to take
5 anybody's word for it, I mean, you know from experiments
6 that were performed out there, weren't there, to your
7 knowledge?
8 A. Yes, sir.
9 Q. Okay. Did you, in the course of your
10 investigation, determine how many fingerprints were
11 lifted out there at the residence?
12 A. I don't remember any fingerprints
13 being lifted.
14 Q. Okay.
15 A. What I remember is the palm print.
16 Q. Okay. Finger or palm prints?
17 A. Yes, sir.
18 Q. How many lifts were taken, do you
19 know?
20 A. I don't recall, I don't know.
21 Q. Okay. That just didn't seem important
22 to you?
23 A. Well, that's important to me, but that
24 is also someone else's -- you know, I have to delegate,
25 you know, some of this to other people, because I can't,
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4166

1 you know, do it all. And, I don't remember how many were
2 taken.
3 Q. Okay.
4 A. Or lifted.
5 Q. Okay. After you had the -- after
6 Darlie had written this statement for you, did you
7 continue to talk to her?
8 A. No, sir.
9 Q. Okay. How long did it take her to
10 write this statement?
11 A. I don't remember.
12 Q. Well, I mean, can we agree that it
13 didn't take more than probably a half an hour?
14 A. Well, no, I don't remember.
15 Q. Well, can we agree that it didn't take
16 more than an hour?
17 A. I don't remember.
18 Q. Okay.
19 A. It took her longer than 30 minutes.
20 Q. Okay. Did it take her more than an
21 hour?
22 A. I don't remember.
23 Q. Okay. But you are saying that you
24 were just sitting there, and were not asking any
25 questions?
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1 A. I was not sitting there the whole
2 time.
3 Q. Oh, you just left her there in the
4 room?
5 A. I left her in the room during part of
6 it. And I check on her to see if she was completed with
7 it or not.
8 Q. Okay. When she finished it, did y'all
9 talk further?
10 A. No, sir.
11 Q. What did you do?
12 A. I just read it over, and I asked her
13 if this was everything, and she said yes.
14 Q. Okay. Did you read it over out loud?
15 A. No, sir.
16 Q. You read it over to yourself?
17 A. Yes, sir.
18 Q. Okay. Did you have any further
19 discussion with her about what had happened out there
20 that evening?
21 A. On the 8th?
22 Q. Yes.
23 A. No.
24 Q. Okay. Are you sure about that?
25 A. I don't recall talking to her any more
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4168

1 about it, no.
2 Q. Okay. Have you testified on another
3 occasion under oath, that we may have discussed, whether
4 or not she struggled with the man, I'm not sure?
5 A. Well, I don't recall that. I have
6 testified on other occasions about this, but I don't
7 remember saying that.
8 Q. Would it refresh your memory to see
9 that?
10 A. Yes, sir.
11 Q. And then you might remember that
12 perhaps that was discussed, or you didn't know whether it
13 was discussed or not?
14 A. Well, I don't remember at this point
15 if it was discussed.
16 Q. Okay. Are you saying that it may well
17 have been discussed?
18 A. I'm saying that I don't remember it.
19 Q. Okay.
20
21 THE COURT: Well in the interest of
22 time, we will adjourn now until 1:10 for lunch.
23 Perhaps over the noon hour, both sides
24 can go through all documents and get them in line, and
25 make sure that the witnesses are aware of what is going
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
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1 to be asked.
2 Members of the jury, the same
3 instructions as always, do not discuss the case among
4 yourselves, or with anyone else. Do no investigation on
5 your own. Do not speak to anyone about it. If someone
6 tries to speak to you, tell the bailiff who is with you
7 at the time, and should you hear any publicity, radio, or
8 TV or newspapers, please ignore it.
9 Let's see everybody back here at 10
10 minutes after 1:00 o'clock. Thank you.
11
12 (Whereupon, a short
13 Recess was taken,
14 After which time,
15 The proceedings were
16 Resumed on the record,
17 In the presence and
18 Hearing of the defendant
19 And the jury, as follows:
20
21 THE COURT: All right. Everybody is
22 back after lunch. Are both sides ready to bring the jury
23 in and resume the trial?
24 MR. GREG DAVIS: Yes, sir, the State
25 is ready.
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4170

1 MR. DOUGLAS D. MULDER: Yes, sir, the
2 defense is ready.
3 THE COURT: All right. Bring the jury
4 in, please.
5
6 (Whereupon, the jury
7 Was returned to the
8 Courtroom, and the
9 Proceedings were
10 Resumed on the record,
11 In open court, in the
12 Presence and hearing
13 Of the defendant,
14 As follows:)
15
16 THE COURT: All right. Be seated,
17 please. Let the record reflect that all parties in the
18 trial are present and the jury is seated.
19 Mr. Mulder.
20 MR. DOUGLAS D. MULDER: Yes, sir, your
21 Honor.
22
23
24 DIRECT EXAMINATION (Resumed)
25
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4171

1 BY MR. DOUGLAS D. MULDER:
2 Q. Officer Patterson, I'm going to get
3 into where we were when we left off in a minute, but just
4 so that you and I are on the same wave length, do you
5 understand what the federal law is, as regards to
6 monitoring private phone conversations?
7 A. No, sir.
8 Q. Weren't you a narcotics officer?
9 Didn't you work drugs?
10 A. Yes, sir.
11 Q. Well, in that capacity didn't you have
12 occasion to get wire taps?
13 A. Well, if you're saying that I violated
14 some law, then I'm not going to say anything else about
15 that.
16 Q. Well, you're going to answer my
17 questions.
18
19 THE COURT: Well --
20
21 BY MR. DOUGLAS D. MULDER:
22 Q. Are you going to take the Fifth, is
23 that what you are going to say?
24 A. If you're saying that I violated some
25 state or federal law, then I'm not going to answer it
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
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1 until I have legal counsel.
2 Q. Well, I suspect you better get legal
3 counsel then, because I am suggesting to you that that is
4 exactly what you did.
5
6 MR. GREG DAVIS: Object to him
7 suggesting anything. The officer has already stated that
8 he doesn't know.
9 THE COURT: Sustained.
10 MR. DOUGLAS D. MULDER: Judge, it
11 doesn't make any difference to me whether you warn the
12 man or not. The Court knows the law, and it's a
13 violation of state and federal law.
14 THE COURT: Mr. Mulder, I know the law
15 and --
16 MR. DOUGLAS D. MULDER: This is a
17 federal felony.
18 THE COURT: Mr. Mulder, please,
19 please. Officer Patterson is a law enforcement officer
20 and is presumed to know the law in Texas, yes, sir.
21 I have advised him of his rights in
22 this regard. And you do have a right, under the Fifth
23 Amendment of the Constitution of the United States, not
24 to say anything that might tend to incriminate you in any
25 way. And you certainly understand all of that, do you
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1 not?
2 THE WITNESS: Yes, sir.
3 THE COURT: So you are an experienced
4 law enforcement officer, you have warned a lot of other
5 people of their rights, you know what the Miranda
6 warnings are, do you not?
7 THE WITNESS: I do.
8 THE COURT: Well then, if you know
9 what the Miranda warnings are, then I think that that
10 speaks for itself. You understand what you can do and
11 what you can't do. Do you need any further counselling,
12 do you think? Any explanation of what your rights are
13 under the law?
14 THE WITNESS: No, sir.
15 THE COURT: Okay. Fine. I think we
16 have covered that. So ask your questions. If he wants
17 to answer it, he will, if he does not, then he can invoke
18 the Fifth Amendment.
19 MR. DOUGLAS D. MULDER: Yes, sir. Let
20 me just ask you something.
21
22 BY MR. DOUGLAS D. MULDER:
23 Q. Do you understand any more about it
24 now than you did before the Judge talked to you? About
25 what the law is?
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4174

1 A. No one has read me any statute that I
2 violated a law.
3 Q. Okay. Would you like to have time to
4 read both the state laws and the federal laws as regards
5 to the surreptitious collection of conversation such as
6 you and those other officers that you told us about
7 before lunch recorded?
8 A. I would like to read it, yes.
9
10 THE COURT: Well then, in that case,
11 do you have another witness that you can put on the
12 stand?
13 MR. DOUGLAS D. MULDER: Would the
14 Court let me go on to some other matters and then let him
15 read that during the -- during the --
16 THE COURT: Proceed. Let's just don't
17 get into that area. Go into something else.
18 MR. DOUGLAS D. MULDER: Yes, sir.
19
20 BY MR. DOUGLAS D. MULDER:
21 Q. In all fairness to you, don't you
22 think that it is appropriate that anything I ask you
23 about that, or any remarks that you make be recorded?
24 A. Do I think it's fair?
25 Q. Yeah, fair to you?
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4175

1 A. Well, I don't understand what you are
2 saying.
3 Q. Well don't you think that any -- I'm
4 not going to ask you to make any comments about that
5 until you have had time to get legal counsel and to talk
6 with your lawyer, about the state law and the federal
7 law. But don't you think that in fairness to you, if I
8 questioned you about that, that our conversations ought
9 to be recorded?
10 A. Well, at this time, until I have legal
11 counsel, or until I read that, if I violated something,
12 then I'm not going to answer you.
13 Q. Well, I guess I'm missing the point.
14 But in fairness to you, so that your jury, if it comes to
15 that on down the line, will know exactly what you said
16 and what admissions you made or didn't make, don't you
17 think in fairness to the prospective defendant, that
18 those conversations should be recorded, so that there is
19 no question about what was said?
20 A. I don't understand what you are
21 saying.
22 Q. Well, all right. Let me put it in
23 another way, and maybe I can make this a little more
24 artful.
25 I guess the bottom line is this: If I
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1 am going to question you about criminal conduct, don't
2 you think in fairness to the person questioned, and then
3 I tell you that I'm going to use that, whatever you say
4 on down the line against you, or I could have, it has
5 that possibility. Don't you think in fairness to the
6 person questioned, that your answers ought to be recorded
7 so that there is no question about what you said or
8 didn't say?
9 A. I still don't understand what you are
10 saying.
11 Q. All right. Let me run at it from
12 another direction. Suppose you were going to question me
13 about a traffic violation for speeding from here to San
14 Antonio, or something -- well, let's make it something
15 more serious than that. But you are going to question
16 me.
17 Do you think, in fairness to me,
18 whatever I say, should be recorded, so that on down the
19 line a week from now, or two weeks from now, or a month
20 from now, if you intend to use that against me, that
21 there would be an accurate rendition of what I have said,
22 so that we don't have to rely on your memory?
23 A. Well, until I get legal counsel about
24 what you are saying, I'm not going to answer you.
25 Q. Okay. You don't even have the answer,
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1 do you? But you were a narcotics officer, weren't you?
2 A. Yes, sir.
3 Q. And in that capacity, did you record
4 conversations?
5 A. I did.
6 Q. Okay. You ought to be familiar with
7 the law?
8 A. Well --
9
10 MR. GREG DAVIS: I'm sorry, excuse me,
11 I thought we were done with this until we had a break.
12 THE COURT: Mr. Mulder, let's move on
13 to some other area, other than what this is.
14 MR. DOUGLAS D. MULDER: Yes, sir.
15 THE COURT: And then we can get back
16 on this after we take a break.
17 MR. DOUGLAS D. MULDER: Yes, sir, I
18 understand.
19
20 BY MR. DOUGLAS D. MULDER:
21 Q. I had asked you if you questioned her,
22 prior to the time that she made this written statement.
23 Do you recall that?
24 A. Yes, sir.
25 Q. And what was your answer, Mr.
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1 Patterson?
2 A. That we talked a few minutes.
3 Q. And what did you talk about, Mr.
4 Patterson?
5 A. I don't recall.
6 Q. Do you recall when you testified under
7 oath, on August the 26th and 27th of 1996, do you recall
8 that?
9 A. I remember testifying, but I don't
10 remember the dates.
11 Q. Do you remember being under oath at
12 that time?
13 A. Yes, sir.
14 Q. You swore to tell the truth?
15 A. Yes, sir.
16 Q. Do you recall being asked: "Did you
17 ask her questions as she was writing, or did she just
18 write it out in long hand?"
19 Do you recall answering, "Well, we had
20 talked a little bit right before, prior to that. And
21 then she wrote it out."
22 "What did y'all talk about?"
23 "The same thing. I just asked her
24 what happened."
25 Is that right?
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1 A. Can I look at that?
2 Q. You bet.
3 A. Okay.
4 Q. Do you recall being asked those
5 questions and making those answers?
6 A. Yes, sir.
7 Q. Okay. So you did talk with her about
8 what had happened before she wrote it out in long hand?
9 A. Just a few minutes, yes, sir.
10 Q. And, at that time, you asked her to
11 write it out in long hand then, after you had quizzed her
12 about it?
13 A. I asked her if she would, yes, sir.
14 Q. Again, nothing recorded, no notes by
15 Patterson?
16 A. No, sir.
17 Q. All right. And I asked you, if in
18 that conversation she had told you that she had struggled
19 with a man; is that right?
20 A. That -- do what now?
21 Q. Did she tell you in this conversation
22 that you had, before she wrote her statement out, that
23 she had struggled with the man?
24 A. She had told me that on the 6th.
25 Q. Did she tell you that on the 8th?
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4180

1 A. I don't remember her telling me that
2 on the 8th.
3 Q. You aren't saying that she didn't tell
4 you that, are you?
5 A. I don't recall her telling me that on
6 the 8th.
7 Q. All right. Well, that doesn't -- do
8 you recall being asked this question: "Detective
9 Patterson, the first time you spoke with her, she told
10 you about a struggle on June the 8th. Did she say
11 anything to you about a struggle occurring between her
12 and the intruder?"
13 Answer: "Not in the report, she
14 doesn't."
15 And by that, you meant not in her
16 handwritten version, I take it?
17 A. Okay.
18 Q. She didn't write a report, but I take
19 it that you are talking about what she wrote down; is
20 that right?
21 A. Right.
22 Q. Okay. "Did she, in that conversation
23 with you on June the 8th -- did she, in conversations
24 with you on June 8th?"
25 "I honestly don't remember if she did
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4181

1 or not."
2 Is that what you said?
3 A. Can I read that?
4 Q. You bet.
5 A. Okay.
6 Q. Did you make that answer? Under oath?
7 A. Well, it says that I did, yes, sir.
8 Q. Well, I mean, do you have any
9 recollection or not?
10 A. Well, it says that I said that.
11 Q. Well, that is not what I asked you.
12 Does that refresh your memory, or are you still telling
13 the jury that you don't know, one way or the other?
14 A. Well, I mean, that is the statement
15 that I made on June the 8th.
16 Q. Well, you now remember that?
17 A. Well, after reading it, yes.
18 Q. Okay. All right. Is that the -- are
19 you telling this jury now, that you don't know whether
20 she discussed that with you or not?
21 A. Well, that says that I don't remember
22 if she said anything about a struggle, but in her written
23 statement, she didn't say that she struggled with him.
24 Q. All right. That was going to be my
25 next question. After you read her statement, did you
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4182

1 discuss it with her?
2 A. No, sir.
3 Q. You didn't discuss it with her?
4 A. No, sir.
5 Q. Why is that?
6 A. Well, I didn't feel that I needed to.
7 Q. Why not?
8 A. I just didn't.
9 Q. Well, apparently you said in the
10 conversation on the 6th, that y'all didn't write anything
11 down about it?
12 A. Well, I didn't say that we didn't.
13 Q. No, I say that you didn't. I say you
14 didn't.
15 A. I didn't write anything.
16 Q. Well, do you see anything in Frosch's
17 notes here, that he had at the hospital?
18 A. Well, I read Frosch's supplement
19 report.
20 Q. You read a report that you all did
21 sometime later?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. Not the notes that he took there in
24 the hospital?
25 A. Right. That is nothing uncommon, you
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4183

1 know that.
2 Q. Well, you don't know what I know?
3 A. Well, but that is nothing uncommon.
4 Q. No. I suggest to you, that it is
5 uncommon. And I suggest to you, that in fairness, if you
6 are going to hold her feet to the fire, for something
7 that you claim she said, that you would at least have the
8 honesty to -- to record it or --
9
10 MR. GREG DAVIS: I object to this as
11 being argumentative, it's not even a question.
12 THE COURT: All right. Gentlemen. If
13 you will please direct questions to the witness. If the
14 witness will answer to the point, briefly and succinctly
15 and straight to the question asked. Thank you.
16
17 BY MR. DOUGLAS D. MULDER:
18 Q. Don't you think, Mr. Patterson, that
19 in all fairness, that if you are going to hold somebody
20 accountable for a statement that you claim that they
21 made, that you would at least record the statement
22 accurately? Is that too much to ask?
23 A. I did.
24 Q. You didn't record it at all. You
25 wrote nothing down, and he wrote a sentence or two.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4184

1 MR. GREG DAVIS: Well, I'm going to
2 object to what those notes may or may not say. Detective
3 Frosch is back there if he wants to question him on
4 those. This officer didn't make those notes.
5 THE COURT: All right, gentlemen. If
6 you will just ask the question, if that is a document of
7 a prior hearing in which this witness testified to, let's
8 get straight to the point. Officer Frosch is present.
9 We can call him later. He is back there, Mr. Davis?
10 MR. GREG DAVIS: Yes, sir, he is.
11 THE COURT: All right.
12
13 BY MR. DOUGLAS D. MULDER:
14 Q. Mr. Patterson, when you went through
15 the residence, with the other detectives on the walk
16 through on June 6th, did you see some towels with blood
17 on them in the den area?
18 A. The towels I remember were in the
19 hall.
20 Q. Towels in the hall. All right. How
21 many towels did you see in the hall?
22 A. I don't -- I didn't count them.
23 Q. Were they bloody?
24 A. There were some washcloths that had
25 some blood on them, or had something that appeared to be
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter

4185

1 like blood.
2 Q. Were they wet when you saw them?
3 A. I don't recall if they were or not.
4 Q. Were you told that they had been wet?
5 A. No, sir.
6 Q. Did you inquire as to whether or not
7 they were wet?
8 A. No, sir.
9 Q. It didn't make any difference?
10 A. It made a difference.
11 Q. She told you she put wet towels on the
12 boys, didn't she?
13 A. In her written statement.
14 Q. Did she ever tell you that she put wet
15 towels on the boys?
16 A. Well, in her written statement she
17 did.
18 Q. All right.
19
20 MR. DOUGLAS D. MULDER: Judge, might I
21 suggest that -- I am at the point that I would like to go
22 back into that, but I have another witness that I could
23 put on, and if we could get him counsel.
24 THE COURT: That is fine.
25 If you will step down, please.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4186

1 Your next witness.
2 MR. DOUGLAS D. MULDER: Yes, sir.
3 THE COURT: Ma'am, if you will come on
4 up here, please, ma'am.
5 If you will raise your right hand,
6 please.
7 Do you solemnly swear or affirm that
8 the testimony you are about to give, will be the truth,
9 the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you
10 God?
11 THE WITNESS: Yes, I do.
12 THE COURT: If you will just step up
13 here, and pull that gate out, and sit up here in the
14 witness stand. Is this the first time you have ever
15 testified? Okay. Calm down.
16 THE WITNESS: Okay.
17 THE COURT: Just speak right into the
18 microphone, right here.
19 Now, your voice is going to echo, but
20 don't get excited. That is a fresh cup of water. Now
21 you have to speak loudly enough, so that that gentlemen
22 down there and that lady up there in the corner can hear
23 you, okay? Those people over there in the jury box right
24 here.
25 THE WITNESS: Yes, sir.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4187

1 THE COURT: Okay. Over here in the
2 jury box, you see.
3 Now, both sides may ask you questions.
4 Now one side may object. If anybody objects then just
5 stop, and I'll rule on it, and then we well go on again,
6 okay? Just relax.
7 THE WITNESS: Okay.
8 THE COURT: Ma'am, if you can state
9 your name, and spell your last name for the court
10 reporter, please.
11 THE WITNESS: Okay. It's Mary
12 Angelia, and it's spelled -- the Angelia has an I-A on
13 the end of it. Rickels, R-I-C-K-E-L-S.
14 THE COURT: All right. And you are
15 going to have to get a little bit closer so they all can
16 hear you.
17 THE WITNESS: Okay.
18 THE COURT: Go ahead, please, Mr.
19 Mulder.
20 MR. DOUGLAS D. MULDER: Yes, sir.
21
22
23
24
25
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4188

1 Whereupon,
2
3 MARY ANGELIA RICKELS,
4
5 was called as a witness, for the Defense, having been
6 first duly sworn by the Court to speak the truth, the
7 whole truth, and nothing but the truth, testified in open
8 court, as follows:
9
10
11 DIRECT EXAMINATION
12
13 BY MR. DOUGLAS D. MULDER:
14 Q. Ms. Rickels, would you tell the jury
15 your name again, please?
16 A. Angelia Rickels.
17 Q. Okay. Can y'all hear her all right?
18 I will stand back here, so that you can keep your voice
19 up. If you will just speak up, so that we can hear you
20 back here in this part of the area.
21 Would you tell the jury where you
22 live?
23 A. I live in Rowlett.
24 Q. And how long have you lived there?
25 A. Oh, for over two years now.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4189

1 Q. Are you a married lady?
2 A. Yes, I am.
3 Q. Do you have a family?
4 A. Oh, yes.
5 Q. What does your family consist of,
6 please, ma'am?
7 A. I have 3 teenagers and one baby, well,
8 he is 15 months now.
9 Q. Okay. And when was your baby born?
10 A. October 6th, 1995.
11 Q. Okay. Can you -- let me show you what
12 has been marked for identification and record purposes as
13 State's Exhibit 6-B. And I'll ask you if you see on
14 State's Exhibit B, 6-B, the City of Rowlett, Texas?
15 A. Do I see it?
16 Q. Yes.
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. Okay. And where do you live in
19 Rowlett?
20 A. I live on Miami Drive.
21 Q. Okay.
22 A. It's in the Rockwall County side of
23 Rowlett.
24 Q. Is it close to Dalrock Road?
25 A. We are just east of it.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4190

1 Q. All right. And, do you see on this
2 exhibit, Dalrock Road, across here?
3 A. Yes, I do.
4 Q. Okay. About how far off -- Dalrock
5 Road is this blue dotted line across here, is it not?
6 A. That is true.
7 Q. Okay. Can y'all see that?
8 How far off of Dalrock Road do you
9 live?
10 A. What I call city blocks, it's two.
11 Q. Two city blocks?
12 A. Um-hum. (Witness nodding head
13 affirmatively.)
14 Q. And you live on Miami Street, is that
15 right?
16 A. That's correct.
17 Q. And, do you live in kind of a curve in
18 the road?
19 A. Yes, I do.
20 Q. Could you find that, do you think, on
21 State's Exhibit Number -- is that Miami Road right there,
22 right at the end of that yellow spot?
23 A. Yes, that is.
24 Q. All right. And do you live right
25 where Miami curves?
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4191

1 A. Right before it hits Willowbrook.
2 Q. Okay. Can y'all see that? Kind of by
3 that yellow mark?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. And would you say it would be about
6 two blocks off of Dalrock Road, two city blocks?
7 A. Yes, sir.
8 Q. Okay. All right. You are right there
9 on the curve?
10 A. Our house faces right on the curve, or
11 the cul de sac, whichever you want to call it.
12 Q. Okay. What sort of work was your
13 husband doing back in June of 1996?
14 A. He works for TCI Cable as a line tech.
15 Q. Okay.
16 A. And at that time he was working at
17 nights.
18 Q. Okay. And, when was your baby born?
19 A. October 6th, 1995.
20 Q. Okay. So your baby, at that time,
21 would have been what, approximately 9 months old or
22 thereabouts?
23 A. Oh, pretty close to it.
24 Q. Okay. Are you a nurse?
25 A. I'm a registered nurse.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4192

1 Q. Okay. And after the child was born,
2 did you experience some medical difficulty?
3 A. I had a stroke.
4 Q. Okay. And you are still recovering?
5 A. Oh, yeah.
6 Q. Okay. All right. Now, Ms. Rickels,
7 did your husband, what hours did he work back in June of
8 1996?
9 A. He worked from 11:00 at night until
10 7:30 in the morning.
11 Q. Okay.
12 A. But he is always one of those that
13 gets there way ahead of time before he had to be there,
14 so he would leave the house between 9:30 at night and
15 10:00, to be there in plenty of time. And then usually
16 he wouldn't come home the next morning until almost 9:30
17 or 10:00.
18 Q. Okay. Would he have occasion to check
19 on you, from time to time, because of your medical
20 health, ma'am?
21 A. Yeah, he was always coming by.
22 Q. And would he, from time to time, come
23 home for -- I guess it would be lunch for him, if he came
24 by early in the morning, wouldn't he?
25 A. Yes, he would.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4193

1 Q. Okay. I want to direct your attention
2 in time, to the early morning of June the 6th of 1996.
3 And I'll ask you if you had occasion to be watching TV
4 early that morning?
5 A. I was watching TV about 1:30 in the
6 morning, yes.
7 Q. Okay. Did anything of an unusual
8 nature happen?
9 A. Somebody was at the door, and at
10 first, my first thought was that it was my husband
11 coming in. Because we have a dead bolt that you have to
12 kind of wiggle the door, you know, in a certain way, to
13 get the key to unlock it.
14 So, when I first started hearing it
15 wiggling, I thought it was him. But then, when I heard
16 the wood split, you know, and they just kept continuing
17 on, you know, wiggling this door, and was hitting on the
18 door, then I heard the wood split, you know, a loud
19 cracking noise, so I finally ran to the door, to see what
20 was going on.
21 Q. Okay. And what did you find when you
22 got to the door?
23 A. Well, I turned the porch light on,
24 because I was thinking, you know, everybody says turn the
25 lights on, and then they will know you are home, and then
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4194

1 they will go away.
2 So then, I looked through the
3 peephole, and there was two men standing out there.
4 Q. Okay. What did they look like?
5 A. One was about your size, but a little
6 stockier.
7 Q. Okay.
8 A. He had like a knit cap on. Kind of
9 rolled up around the edges, and there was some blonde
10 hair sticking out.
11 And the other guy was tall and thin.
12 Q. Do you recall what color the -- this
13 was like a toboggan, or a stocking cap?
14 A. Well, it was dark, and he had like a
15 jogging suit on.
16 Q. What color was the jogging suit?
17 A. It was also dark colored.
18 Q. Okay. Did you get a look at them?
19 Had you ever seen them before? Did you recognize them?
20 A. I didn't look at their faces, to be
21 honest, no. Because I was so scared at the time.
22 Q. What happened when you turned the
23 lights on?
24 A. They ran off.
25 Q. Okay.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4195

1 A. Towards Willowbrook, which would have
2 been northwest from our house.
3 Q. Okay. What happened next?
4 A. Well, I was thinking, "It's okay.
5 Everything is over."
6 And I just went back to watching TV,
7 and I started hearing somebody at the bedroom window,
8 which was right off the living room, where I was watching
9 TV. And somebody, you know, it sounded like something
10 tapping on the window in that bedroom.
11 And so, I went in there, to look out
12 the bedroom, you know, the window, to see what was going
13 on. And, our house is wired strange, where the bedroom
14 light switch, controls the studio lights in the living
15 room. So, of course, that light was on.
16 And any way, I went to the window,
17 looked through the blinds.
18 Q. What did you see?
19 A. I saw them there, and there was some
20 sort of a metal object, I don't know if it was a knife or
21 a screwdriver, they were trying to get up at the lock,
22 you know, those wing-type locks, you can hit those a
23 certain way and you can flip them open and unlock it.
24 Q. Okay.
25 A. And then when I, you know, turned off
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4196

1 the bedroom light, again they left.
2 Q. Did they ever come back?
3 A. Not that night, no.
4 Q. Okay.
5 A. But I stayed up all night then, I kept
6 watching all of the windows, I was so scared.
7 Q. Did you tell your husband about it?
8 A. Oh, yeah.
9 Q. Did you tell your in-laws about it?
10 A. Oh, yes, my in-laws, and my mother.
11 Q. Okay.
12 A. Everybody.
13 Q. Of course, you heard that morning
14 about the problem with the children, the Routier children
15 being stabbed to death?
16 A. Yes, I did.
17 Q. Okay. And, did you call the police?
18 A. That night, no, I didn't.
19 Q. Okay. And you didn't call the police
20 for several days, did you? It was after you talked to
21 your in-laws, and one thing another?
22 A. That is true.
23 Q. Okay. All right. Did the police come
24 out and talk to you?
25 A. Yes.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4197

1 Q. Okay. Did they seem interested in
2 what had happened to you?
3 A. Not at all.
4 Q. Okay. You met me -- you have seen me
5 twice, haven't you?
6 A. Yes, sir.
7 Q. You saw me back in November?
8 A. Yes, sir.
9 Q. And I told you that I had just gotten
10 your name from the State the day before, didn't I?
11 A. Yes, sir.
12 Q. Okay. And you told me that -- I don't
13 see it here -- Mr. Bosillo, with the district attorney's
14 office, had been out. And, I told you that I got your
15 name from them -- I got your name, the day before, and I
16 came out as quickly as I could. And, you told me that
17 Mr. Bosillo had been out there the day before; didn't
18 you?
19 A. Yes, sir.
20 Q. With the district attorney's office.
21 He had a lady with him -- and I don't see her. But, a
22 blonde-haired or a gray-haired lady was with him?
23 A. A small, petite, frosted-haired woman.
24 Q. Okay. And, he told you not to talk to
25 anybody, didn't he?
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4198

1 A. Well, they told me there would be a
2 lot of people coming around, and it would just be best to
3 not speak to any one.
4 Q. Okay. And I talked to you again last
5 night, didn't I?
6 A. Yes, sir.
7 Q. I talked to you briefly, at your
8 hotel?
9 A. Yes, sir.
10 Q. Is that right?
11 A. Yes, sir.
12 Q. And, your husband stepped out. And, I
13 had a lady with me when I came in there, didn't I?
14 A. Um-hum. (Witness nodding head
15 affirmatively.) Yes, you did.
16 Q. And it was just the three of us, and
17 your husband just stepped out in the parking lot while we
18 visited. And, you basically told me this same thing,
19 didn't you?
20 A. Yes, sir.
21 Q. Okay. And then, I believe Mr. Bosillo
22 and the lady that was always with Mr. Bosillo, and Mr.
23 Davis, I guess, came over and met with you after I did.
24 A. We went to their hotel last evening,
25 yes.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4199

1 Q. Okay. And, you talked to them I guess
2 after I left. Is that right?
3 A. Yes, sir.
4 Q. And you told them basically the same
5 thing, I suspect?
6 A. Um-hum. (Witness nodding head
7 affirmatively.)
8
9 THE COURT: Is that a yes, ma'am?
10 THE WITNESS: Yes, it is.
11 THE COURT: Okay. You need to speak
12 up, we can't take head nods.
13 THE WITNESS: Oh, okay. You can't
14 take head nods? Okay.
15 THE COURT: Thank you, ma'am.
16
17 BY MR. DOUGLAS D. MULDER:
18 Q. This is the first time you have
19 testified in court, isn't it?
20 A. Yes it is.
21 Q. Okay.
22
23 MR. DOUGLAS D. MULDER: I'll pass the
24 witness. Now either Mr. Shook or Mr. Davis will ask you
25 some questions.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4200

1 THE WITNESS: Okay.
2
3
4 CROSS EXAMINATION
5
6 BY MR. TOBY SHOOK:
7 Q. Ms. Rickels, do you remember me? We
8 talked last night?
9 A. Yes, I do.
10 Q. I'm Toby Shook. And you have talked
11 to Investigator Bosillo several times, I believe, haven't
12 you?
13 A. Yes, sir.
14 Q. Usually out at your house, or on the
15 phone?
16 A. On the phone, usually.
17 Q. Okay. Now, back in -- when this
18 happened you were there at -- who else was there at the
19 house with you back in June?
20 A. My oldest daughter.
21 Q. Okay. How old is she?
22 A. She was 15 then.
23 Q. Okay. And, I believe your baby and
24 your other daughter were at their grandmother's house; is
25 that right?
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4201

1 A. That's correct.
2 Q. Okay. And your husband, he was out
3 working, and so you were just watching -- what kind of
4 movie was it?
5 A. It was a scary movie. I can't tell
6 you the title of it right now.
7 Q. Horror movie of some sort?
8 A. Oh, yeah, I'm a big horror movie
9 freak.
10 Q. Okay. And I remember you told me it
11 was pretty scary, wasn't it?
12 A. Oh, sure, I'm sure it probably was.
13 Q. Okay. And then you heard this noise
14 at your door, your front door; is that right?
15 A. Yes, sir.
16 Q. Okay. And y'all had a lock that is
17 kind of a trick sometimes to get open?
18 A. Yes, sir.
19 Q. And, was it more of a rattle, kind of
20 rattling at the door, or how would you best describe it?
21 A. A jiggle.
22 Q. A jiggle?
23 A. A jiggle.
24 Q. Okay. And I think we talked last
25 night, your Honor, and if I might just open the door here
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4202

1 for a second, and I don't know if this will make the
2 noise or not, but, was it kind of like that? (Counsel
3 bangs on door.)
4 A. A whole lot louder.
5 Q. Okay. (Counsel bangs on door.) Like
6 that?
7 A. Um-hum. (Witness nodding head
8 affirmatively.)
9 Q. Louder than that?
10 A. Even still louder, yes.
11 Q. Okay. And that obviously got your
12 attention, didn't it?
13 A. Oh, yes.
14 Q. Okay. And how long did that go on?
15 A. Several minutes when I finally was
16 realizing that it was not Don, my husband, using the key
17 to come in, and then when I heard that wood crack.
18 Q. That went on for a long time, didn't
19 it?
20 A. Well, I wasn't timing it.
21 Q. Sure.
22 A. It was several minutes.
23 Q. Several minutes. That louder than
24 that, and at first you thought that might be your
25 husband; right?
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4203

1 A. Yes, I did.
2 Q. Okay. So then after that, went on --
3 and, did it stop or was it pretty steady for several
4 minutes?
5 A. It was steady.
6 Q. Okay. So, it was that noise that I
7 was making, a little bit louder, for several minutes
8 then?
9 A. Yes, sir.
10 Q. That is when you decided that you
11 better go and see what was going on at the front door?
12 A. Yes, sir.
13 Q. Because you also heard a crack of some
14 sort, is that right?
15 A. Yes, sir.
16 Q. And then you turn on the light, and
17 there was -- there was -- you looked out the peephole?
18 A. Yes, sir.
19 Q. And there was two men out there; is
20 that right?
21 A. That's correct.
22 Q. One was a big stocky guy?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. With some type of knit cap on?
25 A. Yes.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4204

1 Q. And you saw blonde hair sticking out;
2 is that right?
3 A. That's correct.
4 Q. And he had on what you called a
5 jogging suit; is that right?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. And it was long sleeved; is that
8 right?
9 A. Yes, it was.
10 Q. Was it long pants also?
11 A. Yes, it was.
12 Q. And the other guy was taller and
13 thinner?
14 A. Yes, sir.
15 Q. And he had on -- do you remember what
16 kind of hat he had on?
17 A. A cowboy hat on.
18 Q. Okay. He had on a cowboy hat. Do you
19 remember what color the cowboy hat was?
20 A. Dark.
21 Q. Okay. So he had on a cowboy hat. Did
22 he have on some type of western shirt?
23 A. Yes, sir.
24 Q. Okay.
25 A. And blue jeans.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4205

1 Q. And blue jeans. Was it a long sleeved
2 western shirt?
3 A. Yes, it was.
4 Q. So one had on kind of a jogging suit,
5 with long sleeves, and the other one had on a cowboy hat,
6 and a long sleeved western shirt and blue jeans?
7 A. Yes, sir.
8 Q. Okay. And then once you turned the
9 light on, they ran off?
10 A. Yes, sir.
11 Q. And, did you see any car out there
12 also?
13 A. Yes, I did.
14 Q. Where was that car?
15 A. Right in front of our house, sir, in a
16 cul de sac, you know, you really can't park right in
17 front. It was kind of half in front of mine, and half in
18 front of my neighbors to the left of me.
19 Q. Okay. Had you seen that car before at
20 all?
21 A. No. Because when I was -- that was
22 the reason why I looked out the window, to see if there
23 was any weird cars out there, and make a note if I saw
24 anybody strange in the neighborhood.
25 Q. When you looked out through the
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4206

1 peephole or when you --
2 A. No, through the window.
3 Q. Later on?
4 A. Yes, sir.
5 Q. Okay. And, these guys they didn't run
6 to that car, did they?
7 A. No, sir, they went the opposite
8 direction of it.
9 Q. Now, after they ran off from the door,
10 you didn't call the police then, did you?
11 A. No, sir.
12 Q. Okay. Did you go back and start
13 watching the horror movie again?
14 A. Yes, I did, and calming my daughter
15 down.
16 Q. She was kind of scared too?
17 A. Oh, she was petrified.
18 Q. Okay.
19 A. Along with me.
20 Q. And then, do you know how long it was
21 before you heard the tapping noise again, or this tapping
22 on the window?
23 A. I think 15 or 20 minutes, somewhere
24 around in there.
25 Q. Was the horror movie still going on?
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4207

1 A. Yeah, it was still going on.
2 Q. Okay. And then you -- the window they
3 were at, is that your daughter's window?
4 A. My second daughter's, yes.
5 Q. Okay. And, did you go in the room and
6 look out the window at that time?
7 A. Yes, I did.
8 Q. And, was it these same two men outside
9 the window at that time?
10 A. Yes, I think it was.
11 Q. Okay. What do you mean you think it
12 was? Do you think it might have been two different men?
13 A. Well, if they were to stand here in
14 front of me, and I had to personally identify them, I
15 don't think I could, you know.
16 Q. Did they look like --
17 A. But they were the same --
18 Q. The same --
19 A. Had the same outfits on.
20 Q. Dressed the same way?
21 A. Yes, and the same builds.
22 Q. So the guy with blonde hair, and the
23 toboggan, and long sleeve jogging shirt, and the guy with
24 the cowboy hat and tall and skinny?
25 A. Tall and slim, yes.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4208

1 Q. Did you open the window and look -- I
2 mean, did they see you looking at them?
3 A. No, I don't think they did.
4 Q. How long were they out there? How
5 long were you watching them at the window?
6 A. Maybe a minute or two.
7 Q. Okay. So maybe a couple of minutes,
8 and one of them was jiggling with the window?
9 A. Yes, sir.
10 Q. And, what happened then, after they
11 were there for a minute or two?
12 A. When I turned the bedroom light on,
13 all the noise stopped, and I went back again and looked
14 out the window, and they were gone.
15 Q. Did you see where they went to?
16 A. They went the same direction when they
17 left from the front door, northwest of the house.
18 Q. And, did you see that car out there?
19 Is that when you saw the car out there?
20 A. I saw the car out there, about 10
21 minutes after that, yes.
22 Q. Okay. So about what time was that?
23 A. A little after 2:00, 2:08 or somewhere
24 around in there.
25 Q. So, sometime after 2:00?
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4209

1 A. Yes, sir.
2 Q. Were you looking at a clock at all?
3 A. At that time?
4 Q. Yes.
5 A. No.
6 Q. Okay. And again, what did this car
7 look like?
8 A. It was a dark blue, small, boxy-type
9 car. I'm not good with types of cars.
10 Q. Okay. And, you didn't go to sleep
11 again that night?
12 A. No, I stayed up all night.
13 Q. After you saw the men at your
14 daughter's window, did you call the police then?
15 A. No, sir.
16 Q. Okay. Did you see that car again in
17 the morning, after it was light?
18 A. Since I stayed up all night, you know,
19 I kept watching all of the windows, and the car was there
20 at 3:00, and then again, it was still there at 7:30.
21 Q. So, it was still outside?
22 A. It was still in the exact same spot
23 where I had seen it.
24 Q. Okay. And then your husband came
25 home; is that right?
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4210

1 A. That's correct.
2 Q. And you told him about what had
3 happened?
4 A. Oh, yeah.
5 Q. And y'all still didn't call the
6 police, did you?
7 A. No.
8 Q. Not at that time?
9 A. Well, at that time, I was thinking it
10 was -- it's all over, what can the police -- what can
11 they do now, you know.
12 Q. Okay. And, you had been having -- had
13 you had any incidents like this happen before this, where
14 some --
15 A. Not at that house, no.
16 Q. At another house had you?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. Which house was that?
19 A. Back when I was in collage, in the
20 dinosaur days, as my girls would say.
21 Q. Okay. Since that time, at the house
22 you live in, on Miami, you have had another incident
23 where you thought some people were coming up to your
24 house, haven't you?
25 A. After this?
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4211

1 Q. Yes, after this in June.
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. Okay. When was that?
4 A. It was in November.
5 Q. What happened on that occasion?
6 A. I'm a smoker, and I go outside in the
7 garage to smoke, and the door was only lifted maybe a
8 foot, if that much, and I heard shuffling of footprints,
9 or foot steps, or whatever, on the driveway out there,
10 and I got scared, and I wasn't about to bend over and
11 look out there, and see who it was then. I was just
12 scared, and so I just pulled the door down, and stuck a
13 stick in the door so they couldn't lift it.
14 Q. Well, what time of the day was that?
15 A. It was in the middle of the night.
16 Q. Kind of about the same time that this
17 happened in June?
18 A. Oh, more like 2:30 or 3:00.
19 Q. Okay. Did you call the police on that
20 occasion?
21 A. I did the next morning.
22 Q. Okay. And did they come out and talk
23 to you about that?
24 A. Yes, he did.
25 Q. And about, I guess it was about the
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4212

1 11th, that you called the police back in June, right? On
2 June the 11th?
3 A. That's correct.
4 Q. Five days after this had happened?
5 A. That's correct.
6 Q. And did the uniformed officer come out
7 and talk to you?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. Okay. Did you tell him what you had
10 seen that night?
11 A. Yes did.
12 Q. Okay. And, did the police come out
13 again, soon after that, when you saw that car again?
14 A. Well, again in August, I saw that car
15 pull out there and, what triggered my memory, was that
16 the person that got out of the car, was the same build as
17 the stocky guy that I had seen before, and so I ran in
18 and called the police, and they came over then.
19 Q. Did you point out the car to them?
20 A. Yes, I did.
21 Q. Okay. And what did the police do
22 then?
23 A. They went to the house where I pointed
24 to, that showed where the guy went to.
25 Q. Was that a neighbor of yours?
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4213

1 A. Yes.
2 Q. And did they bring any of them out of
3 the house?
4 A. They brought a small, skinny person
5 out in handcuffs.
6 Q. Did that look like one of the guys
7 that had been there?
8 A. No, he was shorter than the one that I
9 had seen on June 6th.
10 Q. That was a different guy altogether?
11 A. Well, based on height, yes.
12 Q. Had you seen that car around there any
13 more after that?
14 A. No.
15 Q. Okay. Now, back when this happened on
16 June the 6th, you had had some bad health problems that
17 year, hadn't you?
18 A. Oh, yes.
19 Q. You had this stroke, and you have had
20 some other health problems, haven't you?
21 A. Well, yes, I had three heart attacks
22 that year, too.
23 Q. What heart attacks did you have that
24 year? When did you have those heart attacks?
25 A. At the end of June that year.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4214

1 Q. Okay.
2 A. And then one 14 days after that, it
3 was about the second week or so, of July, and then
4 another one in August.
5 Q. Okay.
6 A. Pretty much one after another it
7 seemed like.
8 Q. Okay. And you buried your brother, I
9 think, just three days before this incident; is that
10 right?
11 A. That's right, on June 3rd I buried my
12 baby brother.
13 Q. And you were pretty close to him,
14 weren't you?
15 A. Very close.
16 Q. Okay. And that had upset you quite a
17 bit, hadn't it.
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. Okay. And, were you on any medication
20 at the time this happened from your stroke?
21 A. Blood thinners. Numerous, I had to
22 take quite a bit of medicine.
23 Q. What all types of medication did you
24 take?
25 A. Well, an antidepressant, and then, of
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4215

1 course, blood thinners, and there were some cardiac meds
2 that I had to take. And, that was -- when I say
3 numerous, I'm thinking numerous in dollar value. It was
4 about sixteen hundred a month.
5 Q. A whole lot of medication?
6 A. A lot of money for it, yeah.
7 Q. What type of antidepressants were you
8 taking?
9 A. Trazadone.
10 Q. Okay.
11
12 THE COURT: Could you spell that for
13 me, please, ma'am, if you know how?
14 THE WITNESS: T-R-A-Z-A-D-O-N-E.
15 THE COURT: Okay.
16 MR. TOBY SHOOK: I believe that's all
17 we have, Judge.
18 MR. DOUGLAS D. MULDER: We have
19 nothing further.
20 THE COURT: May this witness be
21 excused, gentlemen?
22 MR. DOUGLAS D. MULDER: Yes, sir.
23 THE COURT: All right. Be careful
24 stepping down there.
25 MR. DOUGLAS D. MULDER: Her husband is
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4216

1 down here too. I assume that he can be excused as well?
2 THE COURT: Yes. All right. You are
3 free to go back to Dallas, or wherever you see fit.
4 Just watch your step going off of
5 there, please.
6 THE WITNESS: Thank you.
7 THE COURT: All right. Your next
8 witness.
9 MR. DOUGLAS D. MULDER: Yes, sir. Let
10 me see if I can find that witness, your Honor. I believe
11 they have just stepped out.
12 THE COURT: All right. Well, let's
13 take a 10 minute break. All right.
14
15 (Whereupon, a short
16 Recess was taken,
17 After which time,
18 The proceedings were
19 Resumed on the record,
20 In the presence and
21 Hearing of the defendant
22 And the jury, as follows:)
23
24 THE COURT: All right. Are both sides
25 ready to bring the jury back in, and resume with the
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4217

1 trial?
2 MR. GREG DAVIS: Yes, sir, the State
3 is ready.
4 MR. DOUGLAS D. MULDER: Yes, sir, we
5 have our witness here now. We're ready to proceed.
6 THE COURT: All right. Bring the jury
7 in, please.
8
9 (Whereupon, the jury
10 Was returned to the
11 Courtroom, and the
12 Proceedings were
13 Resumed on the record,
14 In open court, in the
15 Presence and hearing
16 Of the defendant,
17 As follows:)
18
19 THE COURT: All right. Let the record
20 reflect that all parties in the trial are present and the
21 jury is seated.
22 Your next witness, Mr. Mulder.
23 MR. DOUGLAS D. MULDER: I thought she
24 was coming right in.
25 THE COURT: Ma'am, if you will raise
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4218

1 your right hand, please.
2
3 (Whereupon, the witness
4 Was duly sworn by the
5 Court, to speak the truth,
6 The whole truth and
7 Nothing but the truth,
8 After which, the
9 Proceedings were
10 Resumed as follows:
11
12 THE COURT: Do you solemnly swear or
13 affirm that the testimony you are about to give will be
14 the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so
15 help you God?
16 THE WITNESS: I do.
17 THE COURT: All right. If you will
18 have a seat right here please, ma'am.
19 THE WITNESS: Okay.
20 THE COURT: Is this your first time to
21 testify?
22 THE WITNESS: Yes, sir.
23 THE COURT: Okay. Ma'am, you are
24 under the Rule of Evidence now. That simply means, that
25 when you are not testifying, you have to remain outside
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4219

1 the courtroom, and don't talk about your testimony with
2 anybody who has testified. In other words, don't compare
3 it.
4 You may talk to the attorneys for
5 either side, but if someone tries to talk to you about
6 your testimony, tell the attorney for the side who called
7 you.
8 THE WITNESS: Okay.
9 THE COURT: If you will state your
10 name and spell your last name for the court reporter,
11 please.
12 THE WITNESS: My name is Sarilda
13 Routier. S-A-R-I-L-D-A.
14 THE COURT: Now, ma'am, you are going
15 to have to continue to speak loudly enough so that the
16 gentlemen and the lady down there in the far corner of
17 the jury box can hear you, okay?
18 THE WITNESS: Um-hum. (Witness
19 nodding head affirmatively.)
20 THE COURT: Okay. Speak right into
21 that microphone. Go ahead, please.
22 THE WITNESS: Okay. Sarilda Routier.
23 Did you get that? Sarilda Routier. S-A-R-I-L-D-A, and
24 R-O-U-T-I-E-R.
25
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4220

1 Whereupon,
2
3 SARILDA ROUTIER,
4
5 was called as a witness, for the Defense, having been
6 first duly sworn by the Court to speak the truth, the
7 whole truth, and nothing but the truth, testified in open
8 court, as follows:
9
10
11 DIRECT EXAMINATION
12
13 BY MR. DOUGLAS D. MULDER:
14 Q. Are you Sarilda Routier?
15 A. Yes, sir.
16 Q. And would you tell the jury where you
17 live, please?
18 A. I live in Lubbock, Texas, at 5104 19th
19 in Lubbock.
20 Q. Okay. And, have you lived there a
21 good part of your adult life?
22 A. I have lived there all of my life
23 except two years when my husband was in the service.
24 Q. When was that?
25 A. We got married in '64, we lived in
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4221

1 Dallas from 1964 to 1968 then we moved to Lubbock.
2 Q. Okay. Do you have children?
3 A. Yes, sir.
4 Q. How many children do you have?
5 A. I have three children. I have Darin
6 is my oldest, he is 29. Deon, who is 27, and Arenda, who
7 is 21.
8 Q. Okay. Are your children married?
9 A. All of them are married now.
10 Q. Okay. And, where do they live?
11 A. Darin lives in Rowlett, and Deon, he
12 has been going to college all this time, he has just
13 recently moved to Plano, Texas, which is in the Dallas
14 area, and Arenda lives in Lubbock.
15 Q. Okay. What business are you and your
16 husband in?
17 A. We own a machine shop. It is called R
18 and R Repair and Machine.
19 Q. Okay.
20 A. We have had it for 26 years.
21 Q. Is it basically your husband operates
22 it, does he?
23 A. Yes, we started the business, it was
24 because my maiden name was Raper, R-A-P-E-R, and it was
25 Raper and Routier. Initials, R and R. My father died in
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4222

1 1987, so we're sole proprietors now, we were a
2 partnership.
3 Q. You have been called here to testify
4 as regards to Darlie Routier. How long have you known
5 Darlie?
6 A. They have been married eight years. I
7 have known her 10 or 11 years. To tell you the truth, I
8 can't tell you exactly, but a long time.
9 Q. Do you know her well?
10 A. Well --
11 Q. How many grandchildren did you have?
12 A. Well, I had four.
13 Q. Okay.
14 A. I have two other grandsons.
15 Q. Okay.
16 A. Um-hum. (Witness nodding head
17 affirmatively.)
18 Q. And what are their ages?
19 A. Well, we had Devon, who wanted to be
20 considered 7, and Damon who was 5, and Drake -- well, I
21 have to -- well, Deon and Dana have a little boy named
22 Dillon. Dillon will be 3. He is 2 and a half. And I
23 have Drake, who is about 15 or 16 months old.
24 Q. All right. So you have two surviving
25 grandchildren?
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4223

1 A. Two surviving, um-hum. (Witness
2 nodding head affirmatively.)
3 Q. And one grandchild by your son, Darin?
4 A. Yes, and one by Deon.
5 Q. And one by Deon?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. What was your relationship, Ms.
8 Routier, with your grandchildren? Did you see them
9 often?
10 A. I saw them often. As much as you can
11 with them living in Dallas. You know, when you live, I
12 mean, Lubbock is 350 miles. Okay? And -- but I did get
13 to see them often.
14 They came to us -- we never were away
15 from each other on the holidays, and so, either they came
16 to us, or I came to them.
17 I also do a lot of shopping at market,
18 and so, I came with girlfriends, for sometimes day trips,
19 or two night trips. Plus, I was always there when the
20 babies were born. Darlie and I do lots of shopping. She
21 is truthfully my daughter-in-law. She is really a girl
22 friend of mine. I mean, we're real friends. So I spent
23 a lot of time in their home.
24 Q. Would you talk to your daughter-in-law
25 and your son, and your grandchildren on the phone
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4224

1 frequently?
2 A. Oh, yes, we have 10-811, ten cents a
3 minute, and to be truthful with you, we was talking more
4 and enjoying it lots. I talk to Darlie an hour or two a
5 week, and Darin. Sometimes they would say, you know, one
6 saying that I was doing all of the talking to one, and
7 then they would talk, and then sometimes I would speak to
8 both of them in the same day.
9 I hardly went a week that I didn't
10 talk to them on the phone.
11 Q. Do you feel like you know your
12 daughter-in-law well?
13 A. I most certainly do.
14 Q. Can you tell the jury what type of
15 mother she was to your grandchildren?
16 A. Darlie is the daughter-in-law that
17 everyone would love to have. Okay? You should all get
18 to have her.
19 In my opinion, what do you want from a
20 daughter-in-law? You want somebody who loves your son,
21 who lets your son love you back, and that loves you.
22 That gives you beautiful grandkids, that teaches them to
23 love you.
24 You know, what do you want out of
25 life? She was never jealous. Darin and I are very, very
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4225

1 close. Darin is very -- is a very loving person. He is
2 very affectionate. He shoes his affection. He kisses me
3 on lips. Deon doesn't do that.
4 Deon loves me, but you know, they are
5 two different personalities. And she allowed it. And I
6 appreciate that. I have seen that in my friends, who
7 didn't have that.
8 I have friends who have
9 daughter-in-laws that are jealous of the relationship.
10 She was never jealous of our relationship. Well, she
11 loved me too. Why would she be in any way jealous of
12 Darin's relationship, when she felt the same away.
13 Q. Okay. She has been described as
14 selfish and materialistic, self centered. Do you agree
15 with that?
16 A. I most certainly do not.
17 Materialistic. Well, materialistic can mean different
18 things to different people. Darlie likes nice things, I
19 like nice things --
20 Q. Do you know anybody who doesn't?
21 A. Well, I don't know. We like nice
22 things, but we buy it on sale.
23 Q. Okay.
24 A. Well, I mean, it's the truth.
25 Q. Okay.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4226

1 A. Well, I mean, as far as materialistic,
2 I mean, Darlie liked nice things, and Darin liked nice
3 things, and they bought it honestly, with their own
4 money. I don't see anything wrong with that.
5 Q. They worked hard, didn't they?
6 A. They worked hard. They had lots of
7 guts, and they are successful because of his guts. Darin
8 is really a mixture of me and daddy, of his father. He
9 is not quite as boisterous maybe as I, but he is not as
10 quiet and reserved as his father. He is a wonderful mix,
11 and he has turned out awesome.
12 He found a wonderful mate, and
13 together they have worked hard, and made every dime of
14 that money themselves.
15 Q. Did they take good care of your
16 grandbabies?
17 A. Well, Darlie is -- you know, Darlie is
18 not going to deny them anything. She is going to -- if
19 she has a dollar in her pocket, and they wanted a candy
20 bar, well now, grand-mommy thought, well, they really
21 didn't need that. But Darlie just couldn't deny them
22 anything, and that is the truth.
23 Q. Tell the jury what those grandchildren
24 meant to you?
25 A. Well, I'm sure everybody has grandkids
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4227

1 I hope that you do. Okay? You know, your first
2 grandchild is very important. Not that those others
3 aren't, but Devon looks just like Darin. He has
4 freckles, which I hated my freckles, I didn't particular
5 care for his either. But, it was like a little Darin.
6 You know, grandbabies, you know, if you don't have a
7 grandbaby, grandbabies are something that you didn't give
8 birth to, but you have got that wonderful feeling, you
9 know, it's really neat, it's a wonderful, wonderful
10 feeling. Somebody -- I don't have them any more, and I
11 have not really come to terms with that. I put it
12 somewhere, because when you do really think about that we
13 don't have Devon and Damon any more, it is so unbearable
14 that, I start to throw up. So you have to just put it
15 somewhere, and our main emphasis right now is getting
16 Darlie home, and getting this mess straightened out.
17 This awful mess.
18 Q. Did you see her at the hospital?
19 A. I sure did.
20 Q. Did you think her grief was
21 appropriate?
22 A. I would be ashamed if I was anybody to
23 say that wasn't appropriate. I don't know where
24 people -- number 1, I am offended by anybody saying that
25 it was not there. But if you saw it, and we're not
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4228

1 talking about a choice here, of somebody saying what is
2 appropriate, and what is not appropriate.
3 It sounds to me like, from reading the
4 papers, they are saying that it was unappropriate. I was
5 there and it was appropriate at every step.
6 I mean, ask me. What times are we
7 talking about? Every time it was appropriate. I have
8 thought back over this. I mean, you know, this is my
9 grandbabies. I have another grandbaby. I have Drake.
10 I, in no way, shape, form or fashion intend to have Drake
11 put in any kind of jeopardy. Okay?
12 I mean, you know, I seen all this, I
13 mean, from what bits and pieces I got, from frantic
14 friends and neighbors, I guess you could say that is how
15 I have gotten my information.
16 Q. Have you read the newspapers, and kept
17 up with the --
18 A. Well, Lubbock has really been very
19 kind toward me. This is Darin and Darlie's home, and
20 they have kind of considered that trash, and they have
21 repeated very little, very little. So I got the Dallas
22 Morning News, and I have heard that it was on the front
23 page, and this and that.
24
25 MR. GREG DAVIS: I'm sorry, I will
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4229

1 object to this. This is extraneous --
2 THE COURT: Sustained. Sustain the
3 objection.
4 Ma'am, just testify -- just listen to
5 the question.
6
7 BY MR. DOUGLAS D. MULDER:
8 Q. Have you kept up with, and are you
9 aware of the evidence in this case? You have talked to
10 me, haven't you?
11 A. Yes, sir.
12 Q. Are you aware of the evidence in this
13 case?
14 A. Yes, I am, I am aware of everything
15 that I know of any way.
16 Q. Do you believe that Darlie killed her
17 sons?
18
19 MR. GREG DAVIS: I'll object to that.
20 It's not relevant.
21 THE COURT: Sustained. Let's move on.
22
23 BY MR. DOUGLAS D. MULDER:
24 Q. Do you know who killed your
25 grandchildren?
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4230

1 A. I have no idea.
2 Q. Would you be here if you had any doubt
3 in her whatsoever?
4 A. I would not.
5
6 MR. GREG DAVIS: We would object to
7 that again, and ask that the Court instruct the jury to
8 disregard that last comment.
9 THE COURT: The jury is instructed to
10 disregard the last comment.
11
12 BY MR. DOUGLAS D. MULDER:
13 Q. Is she capable of all of this?
14
15 MR. GREG DAVIS: I object again.
16 THE COURT: All right. Gentlemen,
17 let's ask her the right questions. Ma'am, just listen to
18 the questions, and answer it as briefly and to the point
19 as you can, please.
20 THE WITNESS: Okay. What was the
21 question again? I only heard the objection.
22
23 BY MR. DOUGLAS D. MULDER:
24 Q. I asked you if she was capable of this
25 and --
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1
2 MR. GREG DAVIS: And to that, I do
3 object.
4 THE COURT: Sustained. Let's move on.
5 Next question.
6 MR. DOUGLAS D. MULDER: We will pass
7 the witness.
8 They will have some questions for you.
9 MR. GREG DAVIS: Ms. Routier, I'm
10 sorry that you had to come down here. I know that you
11 loved your two grandchildren, and I certainly have no
12 questions for you.
13 Thank you.
14 THE COURT: Thank you, ma'am. You may
15 step down. Let's watch your step going off of their.
16 THE WITNESS: Can I take this water
17 with me?
18 THE COURT: Oh, yes, by all means,
19 take it with you. Go ahead.
20 All right. And by agreement this
21 witness will be excused.
22 Your next witness.
23 MR. DOUGLAS D. MULDER: Judge, we're
24 waiting on Mr. Patterson.
25 THE COURT: All right. Ladies and
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4232

1 gentlemen of the jury, can you step out briefly please?
2 Thank you.
3
4 (Whereupon, a short
5 Recess was taken,
6 After which time,
7 The proceedings were
8 Resumed on the record,
9 In the presence and
10 Hearing of the defendant
11 And the jury, as follows:
12
13 THE COURT: All right. Are both sides
14 ready to bring the jury back in and resume the trial?
15 MR. GREG DAVIS: Yes, sir, the State
16 is ready.
17 MR. DOUGLAS D. MULDER: Yes, sir, the
18 defense is ready.
19 THE COURT: All right. Bring the jury
20 back in, please.
21
22 (Whereupon, the jury
23 Was returned to the
24 Courtroom, and the
25 Proceedings were

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4233

1 Resumed on the record,
2 In open court, in the
3 Presence and hearing
4 Of the defendant,
5 As follows:)
6
7 THE COURT: All right. Sir, raise
8 your right hand, please.
9
10 (Whereupon, the witness
11 Was duly sworn by the
12 Court, to speak the truth,
13 The whole truth and
14 Nothing but the truth,
15 After which, the
16 Proceedings were
17 Resumed as follows:
18
19 THE COURT: Do you solemnly swear or
20 affirm that the testimony you are about to give will be
21 the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so
22 help you God?
23 THE WITNESS: I do.
24 THE COURT: All right. Now sir, you
25 are under the Rule of Evidence. That simply means that
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
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1 when you are not testifying you have to remain outside of
2 the courtroom. Don't talk about your testimony with
3 anybody who has testified, in other words, don't compare
4 it.
5 You may talk to the attorneys for
6 either side. If someone tries to talk to you about your
7 testimony, tell the attorney for the side who called you.
8 Please state your name and spell your
9 last name for the court reporter, please.
10 THE WITNESS: Darin, D-A-R-I-N,
11 Routier, R-O-U-T-I-E-R.
12 THE COURT: All right, go ahead
13 please.
14
15
16 Whereupon,
17
18 DARIN ROUTIER,
19
20 was called as a witness, for the Defense, having been
21 first duly sworn by the Court to speak the truth, the
22 whole truth, and nothing but the truth, testified in open
23 court, as follows:
24
25
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4235

1 DIRECT EXAMINATION
2 BY MR. DOUGLAS D. MULDER:
3 Q. Mr. Routier, what age man are you?
4 A. I'm 29.
5 Q. Where were you born and raised?
6 A. Lubbock, Texas.
7 Q. Okay.
8 A. Raised in Lubbock, Texas.
9 Q. Your parents, what are your parents
10 names?
11 A. Leonard and Sarilda Routier.
12 Q. And where do they live at this time?
13 A. They live in Lubbock, Texas.
14 Q. Did you grow up there?
15 A. Yes, sir, I did.
16 Q. Okay.
17 A. I left there when I was 18.
18 Q. Pardon?
19 A. I left there when I was 18.
20 Q. Okay. You graduated from high school
21 there?
22 A. Yes, sir.
23 Q. Okay. And, what high school did you
24 attend, Darin?
25 A. Lubbock and Cooper.
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1 Q. Did you play any sports?
2 A. Yes, sir.
3 Q. What sports did you play?
4 A. Football, basketball, track.
5 Q. Okay.
6 A. Weight lifting.
7 Q. Did you work while were you in school?
8 A. Yes, sir, I have been working since I
9 was 14.
10 Q. Okay. Tell the jury what sort of work
11 you did when you were 14?
12 A. Well, I started out as a dishwasher,
13 and when I left Western Sizzler in Lubbock, when I left,
14 I was the manager of the restaurant.
15 Q. Okay. And, how old were you at that
16 time?
17 A. I was 18.
18 Q. Okay. And, I'll ask you if in the
19 course of your years there in Lubbock, you had occasion
20 to meet Darlie, your wife?
21 A. Yes, sir, I met her on Mother's Day,
22 12 years ago.
23 Q. Okay. And what were the circumstances
24 under which you met her?
25 A. Her mother worked with me at the
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1 restaurant. She was a waitress, and I was a fry cooker
2 and assistant manager.
3 And, she kept telling me how beautiful
4 her daughter was, and I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, you
5 know, every mother's daughter is beautiful. And she came
6 in on Mother's Day, and just blew me away.
7 Q. Okay. Y'all began to date, I guess?
8 A. Yes, sir, we did.
9 Q. All right. And after you graduated at
10 age 18, you moved, did you?
11 A. Yes, sir, I moved to Dallas.
12 Q. Okay. And what was your purpose in
13 moving to Dallas?
14 A. To get a higher education. I went to
15 technical school, called Video Technical Institute. I
16 took electronics.
17 Q. Okay. And how long did that take to
18 matriculate there?
19 A. Well, it was 14 months, and I went to
20 school eight hours a day, six days a week.
21 Q. Did you also work?
22 A. Yes, sir, I worked full time, the
23 whole time.
24 Q. All right. So --
25 A. I took a job making four bucks an
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1 hour, so that I could finish school. We started out with
2 112 people in my class and 12 of us graduated.
3 Q. Okay. What did you do when you
4 graduated?
5 A. I got my first job working at a
6 company called Cuplex, in Garland, Texas.
7 Q. What size business is that?
8 A. They have about four hundred
9 employees. And, they do roughly about 72 million dollars
10 a year, manufacturing printed circuit boards.
11 Q. Manufacturing what?
12 A. Printed circuit boards.
13 Q. Okay. Now, about what time -- what
14 year is it that you went to work for Cuplex?
15 A. I believe it was in '87.
16 Q. And, had you and Darlie continued your
17 relationship?
18 A. Yes, sir, we got married in '89,
19 and --
20 Q. What were the circumstances -- do you
21 remember when you got engaged?
22 A. Yes, we got engaged, actually my
23 senior year in high school. And we got engaged in
24 Purgatory, Colorado, and --
25 Q. Out there on a ski trip?
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4239

1 A. Yes, sir, with the whole family.
2 Q. Okay.
3 A. In March.
4 Q. Are you talking about your family?
5 A. Yes, sir.
6 Q. You have a brother and a sister?
7 A. Yes, sir, I have a brother that has
8 moved to Plano, and he is in telecommunications, and also
9 a poli-sci major from Texas Tech University, in Lubbock.
10 And, my sister is a home nurse.
11 Q. All right.
12 A. She is 21.
13 Q. Okay. And, when did you and Darlie
14 get married?
15 A. August 27th.
16 Q. Of what year?
17 A. '89.
18 Q. Were you working at that time?
19 A. Yes, sir, I have always worked.
20 Q. Okay. Where were you working at that
21 time?
22 A. We were both working at Cuplex.
23 Q. Okay. And, what were your duties and
24 responsibilities there at Cuplex?
25 A. I was a test engineer. I worked in
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4240

1 the electrical test department. And, actually they
2 pretty much let me do whatever I wanted to do, because I
3 loved being there, and so I would put in, between 75 to
4 80 hours a week.
5 Q. Okay. Now, where were you and Darlie
6 living while were you working -- while were you both
7 working at Cuplex?
8 A. We were living off of Chaha Road,
9 which is real near Rowlett. It's actually in Garland,
10 but it's in a little peninsula, right off the lake. We
11 were living in a little one bedroom apartment.
12 Q. Okay. And, I'll ask you, if a year or
13 so after you were married, if you had a child?
14 A. Yes, sir, we did. We had Devon.
15 Q. Okay. And, do you recall when he was
16 born?
17 A. June 14th.
18 Q. Where were you living at that time?
19 A. Well, we were living in the apartment,
20 and we had started looking for houses. And, the
21 apartment complexes were around 750 to 800 dollars a
22 month, and we had decided that, even though we were young
23 that we could buy our first house.
24 So, we were looking and looking, and
25 Devon was born actually two days after we had closed on
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4241

1 our first house.
2 Q. Okay. And when Darlie came home from
3 the hospital, did you move into your new house, or did
4 you have a short delay?
5 A. We had a delay, because we were
6 painting the house, trying to get it ready to bring
7 Darlie and the baby home and, you know, we didn't want
8 either one of them to be exposed to any of the fumes or
9 anything in the house. So we had a little bit of a
10 delay. Probably about four or five days was all.
11 Q. Okay. Where was that first house
12 located, Darin?
13 A. It was on Bond Street in Rowlett.
14 Q. Okay.
15 A. About two and a half miles from the
16 house that we --
17 Q. Now, while you were working for
18 Cuplex, did you have an occasion to go into business for
19 yourself?
20 A. Actually I didn't want to be
21 self-employed. My parents and grandparents and everyone
22 in my family have been self-employed without retirement,
23 and I wanted to go to work for a company, and work for
24 you know, 25 or 30 years, you know, the American dream of
25 being able to retire at 55. Me and Darlie both have
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4242

1 always done everything very young, and always very high
2 achievers. But I knew that I could never make the kind

3 of money that I really felt like that I deserved unless I
4 did become self-employed.
5 Q. Okay. Did you start your own
6 business?
7 A. Yes, sir, I did.
8 Q. Okay. And what business were you in?
9 A. Well, basically the same thing I was
10 doing at Cuplex, except for I was doing it for myself and
11 I was doing it for other printed circuit board shops
12 around the United States.
13 Q. Okay.
14 A. We started out real small working in
15 the apartment. Making little receptacles that a wire was
16 attached. We would hand crimp, you know, these little
17 parts together and we were making a pretty good profit
18 doing it that way. And even when Darlie was pregnant
19 with Devon, we would sit there on the couch and watch TV,
20 and we would crimp these little parts.
21 Q. Okay. Were you doing that in
22 competition with Cuplex or did you do that with --
23 A. No, I was selling them to Cuplex. So
24 while I was still working there, I was still able to
25 start a business and they were very encouraging. They
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4243

1 are both from Lubbock, Texas. They encouraged me to kind
2 of go out on my own, but they knew that I had a family
3 that I had built and that I needed the benefits of having
4 the insurance and the benefits of working for a larger
5 company.
6 Q. Okay. So you were encouraged by the
7 owners of Cuplex?
8 A. Yes, sir, I was.
9 Q. Okay. And that is a privately owned
10 business, is it not, Cuplex?
11 A. Yes, sir.
12 Q. Okay. You said they are from Lubbock,
13 the primary -- the principals in that business?
14 A. Yes, sir, Mr. Jeff Reino and Ron
15 Reino, they were both from Lubbock, they both graduated
16 from Texas Tech University. They both had kids at Texas
17 Tech University, and they also both worked at T.I. until
18 it shut down, and then they went off into their own
19 business.
20 Q. Okay. And how long did you continue
21 working your business out of your house, the business
22 that you started and working for Cuplex?
23 A. About a year and a half. I continued
24 to work for them while I had my own business.
25 I started my business in December of
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4244

1 '89. And, I guess it was about '91 whenever we decided
2 to go ahead and -- that I was making enough money to be
3 able to not have to worry about Cuplex as a backup.
4 Q. Okay. So you left Cuplex at that
5 time?
6 A. Yes, sir.
7 Q. And had Darlie left sometime before
8 that?
9 A. Actually, Darlie fell while she was at
10 Cuplex. They have a lot of chemicals and a lot of things
11 on the floor, and she had slipped, and they gave her
12 about a three month leave of absence, prior to that.
13 Q. Okay.
14 A. So she didn't have to work, and then
15 she worked for me from then on.
16 Q. Okay.
17 A. We worked together.
18 Q. Okay. When was it that your business
19 had grown to the extent that you were able to move your
20 business out of your home?
21 A. About four years ago, probably the end
22 of '92 or '93.
23 Q. Would that be after your second child
24 was born?
25 A. Yes, sir.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4245

1 Q. Okay. And when was your second child,
2 Damon, born?
3 A. He was born in '91, February.
4 Q. Okay. And, where did you move your
5 business when you moved it out of your residence?
6 A. I moved it off of Main Street, right
7 there -- there is a Main Street that goes right downtown
8 Rowlett, and we had got our own little building, and we
9 had purchased a lot of equipment to go in that. Prior to
10 that, all we had, basically, was a lot of hand tools and
11 a lot of things in the garage.
12 Q. Okay.
13 A. So that is kind of where we started,
14 and then we got into purchasing some large equipment.
15 Q. And did you, in fact, purchase some
16 large equipment?
17 A. Yes, I did.
18 Q. Okay. Did you move it into your
19 business?
20 A. Yes, sir.
21 Q. Okay. Did your business grow and
22 continue to prosper?
23 A. Yes, sir, it always has.
24 Q. Okay. You started out with how many
25 customers?
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4246

1 A. We started out with one.
2 Q. All right. And it grew to how many?
3 A. I have got over 20 now.
4 Q. Okay. Can you give the jury some idea
5 of how much money you were taking in, in 1995?
6
7 MR. DOUGLAS D. MULDER: What was my
8 next number?
9 MR. PRESTON DOUGLASS, JR: 77.
10 THE COURT REPORTER: We already have a
11 77.
12 MR. PRESTON DOUGLASS, JR.: I don't
13 see number 77. I think we have 76-A.
14 MR. DOUGLAS D. MULDER: I'll just go
15 ahead and mark it 77.
16
17 (Whereupon, the following
18 mentioned item was
19 marked for
20 identification only
21 after which time the
22 proceedings were
23 resumed on the record
24 in open court, as
25 follows:)
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4247

1
2 BY MR. DOUGLAS D. MULDER:
3
4 Q. Let me hand you what has been marked
5 for identification and record purposes as Defendant's
6 Exhibit No. 77. And, I'll ask you to look that over and
7 tell me whether or not that is a copy of your 1995
8 federal tax return.
9 A. Yes, sir, this is the short version.
10 Q. Okay. Well, it doesn't have all of
11 the depreciations and things like that in it, but it's
12 just the --
13 A. Right.
14 Q. It gives the basic amounts, does it
15 not?
16 A. Right. The gross income was two
17 hundred sixty-four thousand, and twenty-two dollars.
18 Q. Okay.
19 A. That is a good year.
20 Q. Okay. And in 1995; is that correct?
21 A. Yes, sir.
22 Q. And did you find -- do you know how
23 much your expenses were?
24 A. Well, I know my profit range is
25 roughly 40 percent.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4248

1 Q. All right. So out of two hundred and
2 sixty thousand, you would net for yourself, one hundred
3 thousand, or something like that?
4 A. Yes, somewhere around one hundred
5 thousand dollars a year.
6 Q. Does this show federal adjusted tax,
7 and adjusted gross income, of ninety-five thousand, two
8 hundred and thirty-four dollars?
9 A. Yes, sir.
10 MR. DOUGLAS D. MULDER: We will offer
11 into evidence what's been marked and identified as
12 Defendant's Exhibit No. 77.
13 MR. GREG DAVIS: No objection.
14 THE COURT: Okay. Defendant's Exhibit
15 No. 77 is admitted.
16
17 (Whereupon, the items
18 Heretofore mentioned
19 Were received in evidence
20 As Defendant's Exhibit No. 77
21 For all purposes,
22 After which time, the
23 Proceedings were resumed
24 As follows:
25
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4249

1 BY MR. DOUGLAS D. MULDER:
2 Q. Now, Darin, by 1995 did you have the
3 majority of your equipment paid for, in your business?
4 A. Yes, sir.
5 Q. Okay. And, in the year of 1995, did
6 you add equipment? Did you add, for example, a laptop
7 computer?
8 A. Yes, sir.
9 Q. All right. Did you add forty-four
10 hundred dollars of miscellaneous equipment, and some
11 Proto-line software, in the amount of five hundred
12 dollars, and a computer and printer to the tune of
13 forty-seven hundred and thirty-six dollars, making a
14 total of equipment that you added in 1995 of eleven
15 thousand, one hundred and thirty-six dollars?
16 A. Yes, sir, that is correct.
17
18 (Whereupon, the following
19 mentioned item was
20 marked for
21 identification only as
22 Defendant's Exhibit No. 77-A
23 after which time the
24 proceedings were
25 resumed on the record
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4250

1 in open court, as
2 follows:)
3
4 BY MR. DOUGLAS D. MULDER:
5 Q. Okay. And that is -- that equipment
6 is listed in Defendant's Exhibits 77-A, which shows all
7 of your depreciation schedules and things of that nature,
8 doesn't it?
9 A. Yes, sir.
10 Q. It's just the long version of 77?
11 A. Yes, sir.
12 Q. Okay. Now, you had -- how many
13 employees in your business?
14 A. I have one full time, myself, Darlie
15 and then I would add on some contract laborers as I
16 needed them, depending on how the flow was coming
17 through.
18 Q. All right. Who was your full time
19 employee?
20 A. Barbara Jovell.
21 Q. Is she the one also known as Basia?
22 A. Basia, yes, sir.
23 Q. Okay. And how long has she work for
24 you?
25 A. Four years.
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4251

1 Q. All right. Where had you met her?
2 A. At Cuplex.
3 Q. Okay. And how long had she worked at
4 Cuplex?
5 A. She was there for 12 to 14 years
6 before me, so --
7 Q. All right. Had she been terminated at
8 Cuplex?
9 A. Yes, sir.
10 Q. All right. And, after she had left
11 Cuplex, had she been terminated at her next place of
12 employment?
13 A. Yes, sir. She doesn't get along with
14 people very well.
15 Q. All right. She got along with you?
16 A. Yes, sir.
17 Q. Okay. You were in the office and she
18 did a lot of the testing?
19 A. Yes, sir she did.
20 Q. And you did testing as well?
21 A. Yes, sir.
22 Q. And Darlie did?
23 A. Yes, sir.
24 Q. You didn't depend on Ms. Jovell to
25 sell your services to other companies?
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4252

1 A. No, sir, that was my job.
2 Q. All right. And you didn't depend on
3 Ms. Jovell to do your books, or handle your accounts
4 receivable, or --
5
6 MR. GREG DAVIS: Your Honor, I'm going
7 to object to this as being leading. If the witness could
8 please just testify.
9 MR. DOUGLAS D. MULDER: Did you --
10 THE COURT: Sustained. Please,
11 rephrase your question.
12 MR. DOUGLAS D. MULDER: Yes, sir.
13
14 BY MR. DOUGLAS D. MULDER:
15 Q. Did you count on Ms. Jovell to do your
16 accounting and to keep your books, and --
17 A. No, sir, she doesn't know -- she
18 didn't write or read very well.
19 Q. Okay. She is from Poland, isn't she?
20 A. Yes, sir.
21 Q. Okay.
22 A. But I don't hold that against her.
23 Q. Well, she was a good worker, I assume?
24 A. She was a very good worker.
25 Q. And, you got along with her?
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4253

1 A. Yes, sir, I tried.
2 Q. Were you about the only one that
3 could?
4 A. At times, yes.
5 Q. Okay.
6 A. She is very demanding.
7 Q. I'll ask you if, as you progressed in
8 business and your business prospered, if she became
9 somewhat jealous of Darlie?
10 A. Well, I think the fact that because
11 Darlie had a new baby, and, you know, we were mainly
12 taking up the slack and I was taking over a lot of things
13 that Darlie was doing at the shop, because she was
14 spending time with the baby. I think she was a little
15 bit jealous because of the fact, that of course, my
16 income went up, and I was trying to balance things out,
17 to where -- I think she felt a lot of times that she
18 deserved to be making as much money as I did. And I can
19 kind of understand that, but at the same time, I'm the
20 one who is taking all of the financial risks, and it's
21 kind of hard to understand, unless you are self-employed,
22 to understand how that -- kind of how it all works. But
23 I did pay her ten dollars an hour, and I thought at that
24 point, that was fair.
25 Q. Well, that was a raise for her from
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4254

1 what she had been making, wasn't it?
2 A. Yes, sir, that is the highest pay she
3 has ever gotten.
4 Q. Okay. During the year of 1995 you had
5 acquired some -- you bought a boat, did you?
6 A. Yes, I did.
7 Q. All right. And you bought a -- did
8 you have to pay anything down on the boat?
9 A. No.
10 Q. Just signed the note?
11 A. Yeah, I just signed the note.
12 Q. Okay. And do you recall approximately
13 how much that was per month?
14 A. It was about three hundred and
15 forty-two dollars or something like that.
16 Q. Okay.
17 A. I'm not exactly sure, but it was in
18 the rough range of three hundred and forty to three
19 hundred and fifty dollars.
20 Q. Okay. And you had bought a car that
21 you drove, a Jaguar, had you not?
22 A. Yes, sir, I had an '86 Jaguar.
23 Q. All right. And how were you paying
24 for that?
25 A. No, I paid cash for that.
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4255

1 Q. All right. Was that an expensive car,
2 or how much did you pay for it? Do you remember?
3 A. I paid ten thousand, eight hundred
4 dollars for it.
5 Q. Okay. So that was paid for?
6 A. Yes, sir.
7 Q. All right. When had you bought the
8 home at 5801 Eagle Drive?
9 A. Oh, it's been four years ago, in '92,
10 the end of '92 or '93.
11 Q. Okay. Do you remember approximately
12 how much you paid for that home?
13 A. Well, with upgrades and everything, it
14 was roughly around one hundred and thirty-one thousand.
15 Q. Okay. And, had you put some money
16 into it?
17 A. Oh, yes, sir.
18 Q. Okay. Had you done a lot of the work
19 on it yourself?
20 A. I redid the stairs. I put hardwood
21 floors upstairs. I did the ceramic tile, the vinyl tile.
22 We had done all of the curtains, I had taken all the old
23 stairs out and put hardwood floors going all the way up
24 it.
25 Q. Did you do that work yourself?
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4256

1 A. Yes, sir, I did all of the work
2 myself.
3 Q. Okay.
4 A. It's kind of a hobby.
5 Q. Okay. And Darlie helped you?
6 A. Yes, sir.
7 Q. But you didn't have to pay someone to
8 come in and do that work?
9 A. No, I did it all.
10 Q. Okay.
11 A. I did have somebody come in and show
12 me how to put the hardwood floors down, but once he got
13 me started, I could do the rest.
14 Q. Okay. Darin, how did you pay
15 yourself? Monthly, or every other week, or weekly?
16 A. Well, I just kind of -- a lot of the
17 aspects that I put into my business, was what me and
18 Basia were both used to, and that was getting paid on
19 every Friday. So, I would pay myself either a thousand,
20 or up to fifteen hundred dollars a week, depending on,

21 you know, what bills I had coming up, for that particular
22 month.
23 Q. Okay. The work that you did on your
24 house, approximately how much was that, when you put in
25 hardwood floors, and the ceramic tiles, and things like
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1 that?
2 A. In materials?
3 Q. Yes.
4 A. I really couldn't even tell you.
5 Q. Did you pay cash for that or pay for
6 that as you when along?
7 A. Yes, most of it -- actually, it took
8 us a little over a year and a half to pay for the
9 curtains that we had done in one of the rooms. So, we
10 would just kind of -- it's like paying a credit card,
11 except, for we were paying these people that were going
12 to do to work for us, so that we would not have to use
13 any credit or borrow any money to do it.
14 Q. Okay.
15 A. I think the materials for the hardwood
16 floor, in one room, were like twelve or thirteen hundred
17 dollars, and I would save up, and save up, and then we
18 would have the money to go and get those materials.
19 Q. All right. Now, when was your third
20 son, Drake, born?
21 A. He was born in October.
22 Q. Of 1995?
23 A. Yes, sir.
24 Q. Okay. Sometime after Drake was born,
25 did you notice that Darlie was -- had the blues to some
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1 degree?
2 A. She did for a couple days.
3 Q. Okay.
4 A. But soon after, she got right over it.
5 Q. All right. And, did that concern you
6 at all?
7 A. Not really.
8 Q. Okay.
9 A. I mean, you kind of have to understand
10 what the circumstances was. I was kind of getting in
11 a -- I, myself, was even kind of getting into a little
12 bit of a lazy mode. It was the beginning of the summer.
13 I have this real bad habit about wanting to sleep late.
14 I like to stay up. I worked the second shift for about
15 four years. So, my day kind of doesn't get started until
16 about noon.
17 Q. Okay.
18 A. So --
19 Q. What time do your packages get there
20 from UPS?
21 A. Well, they don't get there until 10:00
22 o'clock, so my day really doesn't start until 10:00.
23 Q. Okay. Well, how does your work come
24 in?
25 A. It all comes in from out of state.
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1 And then --
2 Q. Does it come by mail?
3 A. Yes, UPS, Fed Ex, you know, Priority
4 One. We get a lot of our packages in. I don't have very
5 many local customers any more. So, most of our stuff --
6 we get a lot of things from Houston.
7 Q. Okay. It comes from out of town?
8 A. Yes, sir.
9 Q. Now, let me direct your attention,
10 Darin, to May 3rd, of 1996. I'll ask you if you were at
11 work and Darlie called?
12 A. Yes, sir.
13 Q. Okay. And do you recall the date that
14 I'm talking about?
15 A. I didn't realize what day it was.
16 Q. All right. Did Darlie call you, and
17 as a result of her phone call, did you go home?
18 A. Yes, sir, I did.
19 Q. All right. And, what did you find
20 when you went home?
21 A. Darlie was laying on the bed, and the
22 baby was in the crib, and she was crying, and she was
23 writing into a journal.
24 Q. All right. And, was that a -- was she
25 writing into the journal a note, or a letter that has
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1 since been called by some as a suicide note?
2 A. I personally never read the letter, so
3 I don't really know. I mean, that was her private diary,
4 and I can respect the fact that a woman has a diary, and
5 that she can write into it whatever she wants.
6 Q. All right. Did you have a discussion
7 with Darlie when you got home?
8 A. Yes, we did.
9 Q. Okay. And, tell the jury what your
10 discussion was, and how you happened to go home?
11 A. Well, she -- she called me at work,
12 and she called me about 2:30 or 3:00 o'clock, and I was
13 really busy at work, and she said that --
14 Q. Could you tell from the tone of here
15 voice that --
16 A. That she was blue.
17 Q. All right.
18 A. I mean, it's not unusual for somebody
19 to -- but it's really unusual for her to tell me that,
20 you know, that she needs me home, that, "I need you to
21 come home and help me with the kids."
22 Q. Well, did you go home?
23 A. Yes, sir, I did.
24 Q. And when you got there she was there
25 on the bed, writing into her journal?
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4261

1 A. She was writing into her journal, and
2 she was crying, and I went over to the bed with her, and
3 I asked her what was wrong, and she just said that she,
4 you know, was just really feeling bad.
5 Q. Why was she upset and why was she
6 feeling bad?
7 A. I don't exactly really know, but I do
8 know that she had been breast feeding the baby, and she
9 had quit breast feeding him.
10 Q. Well, Drake was now, what, eight or
11 nine months old?
12 A. No, he wasn't that old. She quit
13 breast feeding Drake when he was about four months old.
14 So, I don't know, it was just, kind of, one of those
15 situations where a husband knows when his wife is telling
16 him that -- you know, "I need you to come home."
17 And I said, "Baby, I'll see you when I
18 get there at five o'clock."
19 And she said "You'll see me."
20 And I just -- it just hit me where I
21 need to go home. I need to go home because something is
22 either wrong, or she just needs some help.
23 And so, I went straight home, and when
24 I got there, she was laying on the bed writing in her
25 journal, and she was crying, and we talked about it for a
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1 little while, and then --
2 Q. What was said?
3 A. -- that was it.
4 Q. What did y'all talk about?
5 A. We just talked about the fact that she
6 said that she needed me to spend more time with the kids.
7 That she needed me not to be so concerned about working
8 so much.
9 That she did not want me to be like my
10 father and be a workaholic, because my father works from
11 the time he wakes up, until the time he goes to bed.
12 And, I was kind of leading down that
13 same path, and that is what she was mainly concerned
14 about. That I need to spend more time, you know, being
15 able to play ball, and being able to, you know, do the
16 fun things, which a lot of that came with the boat, you
17 know, and taking them snow skiing, and things like that.
18 So --
19 Q. Okay. Did she have any pills that she
20 was going to take at that time?
21 A. I think she had some sleeping pills,
22 but I don't know if she was really going to take them or
23 not.
24 Q. Did you think she was serious about
25 committing suicide?
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1 A. No. If she was, I would have gotten
2 her help. I wouldn't have hesitated.
3 Q. Did you stay home with her the next
4 day or go to work?
5 A. I went on to work.
6 Q. Okay. And, any more --
7 A. We had a long -- we had a good, long,
8 hard, cry, and then that seemed to -- the next day was a
9 whole new day, and everything was fine.
10 Q. Okay. Did she seem to perk up?
11 A. Oh, very much so. In about two days,
12 I know she had her first menstrual cycle that she hadn't
13 had in over a year.
14 Q. All right. And did that --
15 A. That seemed to release everything that
16 was -- seemed to be bothering her.
17 Q. Was she her old self again?
18 A. Yes, sir.
19 Q. Was she generally upbeat?
20 A. Yeah, she takes care of a lot of
21 things around the house. She is usually very on top of
22 everything. And, you know, she loves all the children
23 and all of the kids in the neighborhood, and they all
24 love her. As a matter of fact, they are wanting to be
25 here really bad.
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1 Q. Now, what was her relationship with
2 your sons?
3 A. The most loving, caring woman I have
4 ever seen. She was the caretaker. The person who took
5 care of the kids. Made sure that they got bathed, and
6 they got fed. She loved them with all of her heart.
7 They were -- our whole lives revolved around those
8 babies. And that --
9 Q. You took them on trips, and did things
10 with them on the weekends, and did things with them at
11 night?
12 A. Yes. Every -- for the last seven
13 years we went to Vietnamese, which is a Vietnamese
14 restaurant, and we would take them to a dollar move. We
15 could all go out for about 12 dollars, and I mean, just
16 have a blast.
17 They liked a lot of different
18 cultures, and we tried to initiate those different
19 cultures with them with food, because in the United
20 States that a lot of the time is the only thing that we
21 have to teach them with.
22 So they really enjoyed just about
23 everything that we did.
24 We didn't like leaving them with
25 sitters, we liked to take them with us. And, they
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1 enjoyed -- they behaved. Every time we went to the
2 movies, because they had been going to the movies ever
3 since they were, you know, babies, you know, ever since
4 they were in the little car seat.
5 Q. Okay. I'm going to direct your
6 attention to Wednesday, June 5th of 1996. And I'll ask
7 you if you went to work that morning?
8 A. Yes, sir, I did.
9 Q. All right. And did you drive your
10 car or did you drive Darlie's car?
11 A. My car was in the shop, my Jaguar had
12 broke down the day before.
13 Q. All right. What happened to the
14 Jaguar?
15 A. Oh, something was wrong with the
16 transmission. It ended up being a little three dollar
17 hose.
18 Q. Okay. And, so you left your home that
19 morning, and you went to work in her Nissan Pathfinder?
20 A. Yes, sir.
21 Q. Okay. And you worked all day, did
22 you?
23 A. Yes, sir, I did.
24 Q. Okay. About what time did you finish
25 work?
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1 A. Right around 5:30.
2 Q. All right. And, did you come directly
3 home or did you go somewhere or what?
4 A. No, actually Dana was with me,
5 Darlie's sister. And, we came straight home. I was
6 bringing her home, because she didn't have a car yet.
7 Q. Okay. Had Basia left before you did?
8 Left work before you did?
9 A. Yes, sir. She leaves at five o'clock
10 right on the dot.
11 Q. Okay. And, was her mother working
12 there at y'all's house?
13 A. Yes, sir.
14 Q. Helping Darlie out?
15 A. Yes, she had only been working there a
16 couple of days.
17 Q. All right. And, when you arrived
18 home, was Basia and her mother still there?
19 A. Yes, sir, they were. They were parked
20 where I normally park my truck.
21 Q. Okay.
22 A. Right in front of the house.
23 Q. Well, why did you park your -- are you
24 talking about the Nissan Pathfinder?
25 A. Yeah, we live on a cul de sac, and a
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1 lot of kids, including mine, would run back and forth
2 across the cul de sac, and a lot of people were always
3 concerned, and asking me why did I park my truck there,
4 wasn't I afraid that somebody was going hit my truck.
5 And, I'm like, "I would rather them
6 hit my truck than to hit my kids."
7 Q. Okay.
8 A. And, I always parked the truck
9 right out in front, just because -- just for that reason.
10 Q. Where -- I'm showing you what's been
11 marked and admitted into evidence as State's Exhibit No.
12 8. Would you show the jury where you would park your
13 truck?
14 A. Right there on the front.
15 Q. All right.
16 A. Right there by the mailbox.
17 Q. All right.
18 A. See, it would slow people down as they
19 came around this corner.
20 Q. All right.
21 A. Sometimes people are going around this
22 corner going forty miles an hour, because that was a wide
23 turn.
24 Q. Okay. And that is the reason that you
25 parked there?
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1 A. Yes, sir.
2 Q. Okay. You said Basia was there?
3 A. Yes, sir, she was parked in the place
4 that I normally park my car, so I parked on the side,
5 about where that white car is.
6 Q. Okay. And I'll ask you, if, as you
7 parked your vehicle, you noticed a black car that was
8 driving as you -- what you --
9 A. A black car came behind me, it came
10 around the corner.
11 Q. At an excessive rate?
12 A. Yes, sir, probably 30 to 35 miles an
13 hour.
14 Q. Okay. And, you thought that was too
15 fast for the circumstances?
16 A. Yes, sir, I always think it's too fast
17 when it's around my house.
18 Q. Okay. When you went into the house,
19 did you say anything to Darlie, or did y'all discuss the
20 black car?
21 A. Well, she said something about the
22 fact that Helena had seen it, and they were looking into
23 our garage. And, I heard it, but I didn't really listen
24 to it, you know, just kind of -- might have been either
25 into kind of a hectic moment, or, I just really didn't
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1 even think twice about it.
2 Q. Okay. Had you talked to a neighbor
3 approximately one week earlier, about a black car, that
4 was parked in that turn, where they were surveilling your
5 house?
6 A. Yes, sir, Karen, across the street,
7 told me that the car was --
8
9 MR. GREG DAVIS: I'm going to object
10 to that as being hearsay.
11 THE COURT: Sustained. Sir, just
12 testify to what you actually know.
13 MR. DOUGLAS D. MULDER: You can't
14 testify as to what Karen --
15 THE COURT: Just a minute. Not what
16 anybody else said. Is that clear?
17 THE WITNESS: Okay.
18 THE COURT: All right. Go ahead.
19
20 BY MR. DOUGLAS D. MULDER:
21 Q. Did you talk with Karen about a black
22 car?
23 A. Yes, sir, I did.
24 Q. Okay. Now, was that approximately
25 seven or eight days before June the 6th?
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1 A. Yes, sir.
2 Q. Okay. Now when you arrived home,
3 where were the boys?
4 A. They were outside playing, riding
5 their bikes out on the street.
6 Q. Okay. And --
7 A. On the sidewalk, they were not allowed
8 to ride their bikes on the street.
9 Q. Okay. And, were they called in, or
10 what did you do in preparation for supper that evening?
11 A. We called them in, and they both put
12 their bikes back up in the garage, and we came in, and we
13 ate chicken noodle soup, and Darlie had made homemade
14 bread, when Helena was there, and, Helena was going to
15 teach Darlie some new dishes from Poland.
16 Q. Okay. Basia and Helena had gone; had
17 they not?
18 A. Yes. They left as soon as I drove up.
19 Q. Okay. So, who was there to eat super
20 with y'all?
21 A. Me and Darlie, and both of the boys,
22 and the baby, and Dana, Darlie's sister.
23 Q. Okay. What happened after y'all
24 finished supper that evening?
25 A. Well, I went outside. We were talking
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1 about -- see, we had this little Pomeranian dog, and we
2 had bred him the day before, and he was really pretty
3 hyper. And she had asked me to go out, and asked me if I
4 would fix the fence, because the kids were going in and
5 out of it, and it was real hard to kick, and it was
6 dragging the sidewalk.
7 And so, I went out, and I got all of
8 my tools out of my shed, and I cut it, and I shaved it
9 off a little bit, so that I could make the fence fit the
10 latch better.
11 Prior to that, we always just had,
12 like a big old bag of mulch just thrown up against the
13 side of it, to keep the dogs from being able to go, but a
14 little dog like that, he can get through a hole this big.
15 (Witness indicating.)
16 Q. Okay.
17 A. So, I was trying to get the back yard
18 ready, to be able to put the dog back there.
19 Q. Okay. All right. And, what did you
20 do, after -- were you successful in getting the gate
21 fixed?
22 A. Yes, sir, I got the latch all lined
23 back up, and I got it to where the gate would swing back
24 and forth, without dragging.
25 Q. Okay. It would swing back and forth,
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1 so that you wouldn't have to push it with your foot?
2 A. Yes, sir.
3 Q. Okay. What did do you next?
4 A. Well, I came inside, and we played
5 around on the floor a little bit, and I played with the
6 baby.
7 The reason why, like I was saying
8 before, the hardwood floor is upstairs, and the tile
9 floors -- when you have a six month old baby, you can't
10 have a baby running around on a hard floor when he is
11 crawling.
12 So, all of a sudden, this room that we
13 had downstairs, we called it the Roman room. And, that
14 was kind of a place where the baby could crawl around on
15 the carpet, and the boys could lay out on the floor, and
16 it wasn't kind of -- you know, it wasn't hard, and you
17 didn't have to sit up on the furniture or anything.
18 So, that is kind of the main reason
19 why we were using that room so much.
20 Q. Okay. Played with the baby for a
21 while?
22 A. Played with the baby for a little
23 while.
24 Q. Okay.
25 A. And, we just talked and kind of
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1 visited a little bit, and then I took Dana home, at about
2 9:30.
3 Q. Did you have occasion to work in the
4 garage at all?
5 A. Yeah. We had been talking, I guess
6 after supper, about the fact that we were possibly going
7 to have a garage sale, but we were not sure if we were
8 going the have it before we went to Pennsylvania, because
9 we were supposed to go to Pennsylvania on the 14th.
10 So, we were out in the garage, and we
11 were kind of -- had been separating it. We had a lot of
12 stuff to sell, we had a lot of junk, and a lot of stuff
13 that we wanted to keep.
14 And, we wanted to be able to separate
15 what we were going to keep, and what we wanted to try to
16 sell. And, Darlie was working on trying to get the tags
17 and everything made up, so that we could kind of get rid
18 of some of that stuff.
19 Q. All right. How were you arranging the
20 stuff in the garage?
21 A. Well, we were just putting what we
22 wanted to keep on one side, and what we wanted to get rid
23 of on the other.
24 Q. Okay. Was the garage door up or down?
25 A. The garage door was up while we were
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1 working, and I kind of -- Darlie had worked on it for a
2 while, earlier in the week, and then, I was kind of going
3 through it, to see what she was going to sell, that I
4 probably wanted to keep.
5 So, I was going out there to make sure
6 that I was going to be able to kind of hold some of my
7 stuff back, and at least hide it.
8 Q. Okay.
9 A. So, but you know, it was real hot. I
10 mean, it seemed like it was in that garage, it seemed
11 like it was about 106 or 108 degrees. It was extremely
12 hot.
13 Q. Okay. Were the windows up or down?
14 A. One of windows was up, probably six
15 inches -- six to eight inches over by the cat cage. And,
16 we had kind of talked about getting into breeding cats,
17 and I had bought Darlie two cats for Christmas.
18 Q. Darlie was an animal lover, wasn't
19 she?
20 A. She has a lot of animals. She still
21 does. They are out at the farm.
22 Q. Okay. Anyway you talked about getting
23 into the cat breeding business?
24 A. Right. And I had built this cage,
25 that was huge, I mean, it's probably four foot by
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1 probably seven feet tall, and I had built it -- actually
2 Julie -- y'all met Julie, she is a big animal person too,
3 and so she kind of told me how, actually, me and her
4 worked on it quite a bit.
5 But we made it where it was bi-level
6 so we could have one cat on the top, and one cat on the
7 bottom. And we made it so that we could -- when they had
8 their babies, we could secure them down in the bottom,
9 and we were going to put lamps and everything inside of
10 them to keep them warm, and --
11 But we had this cat, this black cat,
12 that was -- he is just really a weird cat. He has got
13 fur about that long. (Witness indicating.)
14 And, his name is Bear. And he is a
15 full-blooded Persian. And that cat didn't like nobody.
16 I mean, the kids wouldn't come around that cat for
17 nothing. I mean, he would just hiss at you, like he was
18 going to come out of that cage any minute.
19 Q. Okay. Was he kept in the garage when
20 it --
21 A. He was kept in the garage, and Darlie
22 ended up going and buying another cage to put inside of
23 the house, because it was cruelty to that cat, to be
24 stuck out there in the garage, when it's a hundred
25 degrees, and it was probably 120 degrees on his skin,
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1 because it was so hot out there. And --
2 Q. So the cat stayed inside?
3 A. We ended up bringing the cat in. She
4 went and bought another cat cage, and we had it inside
5 the house.
6 Q. Okay.
7 A. So that it could get some air
8 conditioning.
9 Q. Okay. Do you know how close the
10 screens -- you said on the one window, the window was up?
11 A. No, the window was down. No, it was
12 within six inches from being closed.
13 Q. All right. And how close was the
14 window to the screen itself?
15 A. Probably an inch.
16 Q. Okay. Now, when you went inside,
17 after you had finished your sorting there in the garage,
18 you went inside, did you?
19 A. Yes, sir, I did.
20 Q. And, was the window still up six
21 inches or so?
22 A. Yeah, I didn't put the window back
23 down.
24 Q. Okay. And you came inside, and about
25 what time was that, as best you recall, Darin?
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1 A. Well, I remember I took Dana home
2 right around 9:30.
3 Q. All right. So it would have been
4 dark?
5 A. Yeah, I'm sure it was.
6 Q. Okay. With all of that stuff in the
7 garage, could you keep your car in the garage?
8 A. No. Our garage was cram packed full.
9 Q. All right. Where would you keep the
10 Jaguar parked?
11 A. Around the back. Outside.
12 Q. Okay
13 A. Just in the driveway.
14 Q. All right. So if someone wanted to
15 know whether or not you were there or not, they could
16 drive by and see whether or not your Jaguar was there?
17 A. They could see my car from the street.
18 Q. Okay. But your car was never parked
19 in the garage itself?
20 A. No, sir.
21 Q. And Darlie's car -- she always drove
22 the Pathfinder; didn't she?
23 A. Yes, sir.
24 Q. Okay. She didn't like to drive the
25 Jaguar, did she?
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1 A. No, she hated the Jag.
2 Q. Okay.
3 A. She was always afraid it would break
4 down on her.
5 Q. All right. About what time did you
6 return from taking Dana home?
7 A. Oh, about 10:15 or so.
8 Q. Okay. And was -- what was Darlie
9 doing when you got home?
10 A. She was watching TV. She was -- laid
11 down on the couch downstairs, and Devon was asleep in
12 front of the big screen TV.
13 Q. You say Devon was asleep in front of
14 the big screen TV?
15 A. Yes, Devon was asleep in front of --
16 yeah, the big screen TV.
17 Q. Okay.
18 A. And Damon was kind of curled up, with
19 one -- we had a little black kitty about this big, and,
20 he was kind of curled up, right next to Damon on a
21 blanket. But Damon was still kind of awake.
22 Q. Okay. And the TV was on?
23 A. Yes, the TV was on, and she was
24 watching something on HBO.
25 Q. Okay. Where was the baby?
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1 A. The baby was asleep on Darlie's chest.
2 Q. Okay.
3 A. And he was kind of -- not sleeping
4 real, real good, so you had to be -- I was going to take
5 him back upstairs, and I went and got a bottle, and then
6 I took him from Darlie, and then I went upstairs and I
7 watched the news for a little while. And I held him in
8 the rocking chair, and I watched TV for a little while in
9 the TV room.
10 Q. Okay. Would he make noises at night?
11 A. Yeah, he would grunt. Do you know
12 what that is? (Witness demonstrates noise.) He would
13 grunt, he would kind of get in the blankets, and he would
14 wiggle, and you know, make the whole bed shake. He would
15 get really restless with all of those blankets and stuff
16 around him, and the little animals -- the stuffed animals
17 and things that were in the crib.
18 Q. Did he like to sleep under blankets?
19 A. Yes, sir.
20 Q. I mean, with his head under the
21 blanket as well.
22 A. Yeah, that is how you got him to go to
23 sleep. He had to be in complete darkness. He is still
24 like that.
25 Q. You mean right now?
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4280

1 A. Yes, sir.
2 Q. Okay.
3 A. Actually now he kicks them off a
4 little more than what he used to, but he is a lot bigger
5 than he was then too.
6 Q. He was a big boy back then, wasn't he?
7 A. Yeah. All of my boys were big.
8 Q. All right. But, back in June he
9 weighed 18 pounds, didn't he?
10 A. Yes, about 18 pounds.
11 Q. And he would only be eight or nine
12 months old?
13 A. Yes, sir, and he also had four teeth
14 when he was -- you know -- all my boys were almost born
15 with teeth. You know, a full head of hair, and were
16 cutting teeth, almost from the time they were born.
17 Q. Was he -- was Drake pulling himself up
18 at that age?
19 A. Yes, sir, that is the reason why he
20 was -- he was really unbalanced, you know. You watch a
21 little kid, especially going through that time, he would
22 very easily grab a hold of something, and pull himself
23 up.
24 We always were kind of told by some of
25 the doctors -- well, see, my oldest son, Devon, he
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1 started walking at six months and that is really early.
2 That is way too early.
3 And, they were afraid that his feet
4 would start to turn in or out, and he walked before he
5 could crawl, and so they told us to put some shoes on
6 him, and get him to where he would stay on the floor.
7 And so, we were kind of afraid that
8 Drake was going to be that way too, because he is very
9 physically -- he is very strong.
10 Q. Okay.
11 A. Stronger than he probably should be.
12 Q. All right. How long did it take you
13 to -- once you got him upstairs and put him in his crib,
14 and gave him his bottle; how long did it take you to get
15 him down and asleep?
16 A. Probably 30 -- 30 minutes or so. I
17 watched the news. Darlie doesn't like to watch the news.
18 So, I watched the news up there with him for a little
19 while, and I finally got him to go to sleep. I put him
20 in his crib, and put his blankets on him, and he finally
21 went to sleep, and then I went back downstairs.
22 Q. All right.
23 A. And I talked to Darlie for a little
24 while.
25 Q. Okay. Were the boys asleep by that
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1 time?
2 A. Yes. Damon had fallen asleep. They
3 had played pretty hard all day.
4 Q. Okay.
5 A. Riding their bikes and roller blading,
6 and all of that.
7 Q. Okay.
8 A. Everybody knows who has kids knows
9 that the garage is kind of a toy box for kids. I mean,
10 you raise the garage door up in the morning and that's
11 where all of their toys are. So, they had bicycles, and
12 roller blades, and all of their toys and all of their
13 balls, and all of that stuff in the garage.
14 Q. Okay. You came back downstairs?
15 A. Yes, sir.
16 Q. And, did you visit with Darlie?
17 A. Yeah, we talked about our upcoming
18 trips. Things that we had planned that were coming up
19 that next week.
20 Q. What did you have coming up?
21 A. Well, the 14th we were supposed to go
22 to Pennsylvania.
23 Q. Had you already purchased your
24 tickets?
25 A. Yes, sir, we did. We purchased
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1 them -- started talking about going to Pennsylvania back
2 in January. And we had purchased our tickets, but we
3 hadn't finished paying for them yet. But, we also had a
4 trip planned. Darlie was planning a trip to go to Cancun
5 with her friend, and one of her girlfriend's daughter was
6 fixing to go into the Air Force, and so they were talking
7 about taking a quick weekend trip.
8 We had talked about going to my 10th
9 year high school reunion.
10 Q. That would be in Lubbock?
11 A. Yes, sir. And, only 16 people showed
12 up. And, also, you know, my sister was getting married
13 too. And so, we had a lot of plans. We had a whole
14 summer full. We had a lot of plans to make.
15 Q. When was your sister getting married?
16 A. Oh, I knew you would ask me that.
17 Q. That fall?
18 A. Well, if -- let's see, it was probably
19 the 26th.
20 Q. Of August?
21 A. Yeah.
22 Q. Okay. Were your boys, Devon and
23 Damon, to be --
24 A. Ringbearers. Yeah, they were going to
25 be ringbearers and --
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1 Q. Was Darlie making anything?
2 A. Yeah, she was making the pillows for
3 them that they were going to carry.
4 Q. Did y'all talk about that?
5 A. And on mine and Darlie's 10th
6 anniversary, we're having a -- we're going to get
7 remarried.
8 Q. Okay. Did you discuss that?
9 A. Yes, sir, we did.
10 Q. Okay. Did you discuss -- there's been
11 some talk that you had sixty-four dollars in the bank.
12 Could you carry off all of this stuff with sixty-four
13 dollars in the bank?
14 A. No, sir.
15 Q. Well, what --
16 A. Well, I had roughly seventy-eight
17 hundred dollars in my business account. So, that just
18 means that Friday hadn't came, and I hadn't paid myself
19 yet.
20 Q. Okay. How much did you have at that
21 time in accounts receivable in your business?
22 A. Between 18 to 20 thousand.
23 Q. Okay. So you had about eight thousand
24 in your business account?
25 A. Yes, sir.
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1 Q. And, another twenty thousand on the
2 books?
3 A. Yes, sir.
4 Q. So you had close to thirty thousand,
5 access to it if you wanted it?
6 A. I had plenty of money.
7 Q. Okay. All right.
8 A. We were talking about what we were
9 going to have to do, and what plans we were going to have
10 to make for me to be gone. Normally we always take two
11 vacations every year. We take one on our anniversary, as
12 a gift to each other. And then we take another one.
13 Q. How long are you usually --
14 A. For our anniversary we're only gone
15 for the weekend.
16 Q. All right.
17 A. I mean, sometimes we will take off
18 like late Thursday night, and take a Friday, Saturday and
19 Sunday, and back Sunday night. So, I can't usually take
20 off -- if I'm not working -- people do business with me,
21 because of me, not because of what I do.
22 Q. Okay. Do you have contracts with the
23 people that you do business with?
24 A. No, sir. I do everything on a
25 handshake.
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1 Q. Okay. You ever have trouble
2 collecting the money from them?
3 A. No, sir. Well, sometimes, just a
4 little bit.
5 Q. Well, they might be slow, but you know
6 you are going to get it?
7 A. Right. I usually look at it as I
8 don't like people to beg money from me, and