Volume 36

1 IN THE CRIMINAL DISTRICT COURT NO. 3
2 DALLAS COUNTY, TEXAS
3
4
5
6 THE STATE OF TEXAS } NO. F-96-39973-J
7 VS: } & A-96-253
8 DARLIE LYNN ROUTIER } Kerr Co. Number
9
10
11
12
13 REPORTERS RECORD
14 JURY TRIAL
15 VOL. 36 OF 53 VOLS.
16 January 17, 1997
17 Friday
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2501

1 C A P T I O N
2
3
4 BE IT REMEMBERED THAT, on Friday, the 17th day of
5 January, 1997, in the Criminal District Court Number 3 of
6 Dallas County, Texas, the above-styled cause came on for
7 a jury trial before the Hon. Mark Tolle, Judge of the
8 Criminal District Court No. 3, of Dallas County, Texas,
9 with a jury, and the proceedings were held, in open
10 court, in the City of Kerrville, Kerr County Courthouse,
11 Kerr County, Texas, and the proceedings were had as
12 follows:
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2502

1
2 A P P E A R A N C E S
3
4
5 HON. JOHN VANCE
6 Criminal District Attorney
7 Dallas County, Texas
8
9 BY: HON. GREG DAVIS
10 Assistant District Attorney
11 Dallas County, Texas
12
13 AND:
14 HON. TOBY SHOOK
15 Assistant District Attorney
16 Dallas County, Texas
17
18 AND:
19 HON. SHERRI WALLACE
20 Assistant District Attorney
21 Dallas County, Texas
22
23 APPEARING FOR THE STATE OF TEXAS
24
25
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2503

1 ADDITIONAL APPEARANCES:
2
3 HON. DOUGLAS D. MULDER
4 Attorney at Law
5 2650 Maxus Energy Tower
6 717 N. Harwood
7 Dallas, TX 75201
8
9 AND: HON. CURTIS GLOVER
10 Attorney at Law
11 2650 Maxus Energy Tower
12 717 N. Harwood

13 Dallas, TX 75201
14
15 AND: HON. RICHARD C. MOSTY
16 Attorney at Law
17 Wallace, Mosty, Machann, Jackson & Williams
18 820 Main Street, Suite 200
19 Kerrville, TX 78028
20
21 AND: HON. S. PRESTON DOUGLASS, JR.
22 Attorney at Law
23 Wallace, Mosty, Machann, Jackson & Williams
24 820 Main Street, Suite 200
25 Kerrville, TX 78028
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2504

1
2 AND: HON. JOHN HAGLER
3 Attorney at Law

4 901 Main Street, Suite 3601
5 Dallas, TX 75202
6 ALL ATTORNEYS REPRESENTING THE
7 DEFENDANT: DARLIE ROUTIER
8 MR. HAGLER HANDLING THE APPEAL
9 AND:
10 HON. ALBERT D. PATILLO, III
11 Attorney at Law
12 820 Main Street, Suite 211
13 Kerrville, TX 78028
14 APPEARING FOR: Witness-
15 Detective Jimmy Patterson

16 only on one date in trial
17 AND:
18 HON. STEVEN J. PICKELL
19 Attorney at Law
20 620 Earl Garrett Street
21 Kerrville, TX 78028
22 APPEARING FOR: Witness

23 Officer Chris Frosch
24 only on one date in trial
25
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2505

1 P R O C E E D I N G S
2
3 January 17th, 1997
4 Friday
5 9:00 a.m.
6
7 (Whereupon, the following

8 proceedings were held in
9 open court, in the presence
10 and hearing of the

11 defendant, being
12 represented by her attorneys
13 and the representatives of
14 the State of Texas, but
15 outside the presence of the
16 jury, as follows:)
17
18

19 THE COURT: All right. Are both sides
20 ready?
21 MR. GREG DAVIS: Yes, sir, the State
22 is ready.
23 MR. DOUGLAS MULDER: The Defense is
24 ready.
25 THE COURT: All right. If you will
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2506

1 call your first witness.
2 Let the record reflect that all the
3 parties in the trial are present.
4 Will you raise your right hand please,
5 ma'am.
6
7 (Whereupon, the

8 Witness was duly
9 Sworn to speak
10 The truth, and
11 Nothing but the
12 Truth, and the
13 Proceedings were
14 Resumed on the

15 Record, as follows:)
16
17
18 THE COURT: Do you solemnly swear or
19 affirm that the testimony you are about to give will be
20 the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so
21 help you God?
22 THE WITNESS: Yes, I do.
23 THE COURT: Okay. You are under the
24 Rule of Evidence, which simply means when you are not

25 testifying you have to remain outside the Courtroom.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2507

1 Don't talk about your testimony to
2 anybody who has testified, in other words, don't compare.
3 You may talk to the attorneys for either side. If
4 someone tries to talk to you about your testimony, please
5 tell the attorney for the side that called you. Please
6 speak right into that mike.
7 THE WITNESS: Okay.
8 THE COURT: Go ahead.
9 MR. JOHN HAGLER: Your Honor, we have
10 one matter about the last witness we talked to you about.
11 You said you would allow us to make the objection after
12 she had testified.
13 THE COURT: Oh, yes, okay.
14 MR. JOHN HAGLER: And, at this point,
15 we would object to the admission of the evidence of the
16 testimony regarding the defendant's alleged statement

17 that she was in need of $10,000. And our objection to
18 that point was prior to that offer and the admission in
19 evidence of that testimony, and that objection was that
20 it was irrelevant and confusing and misleading to the
21 jury.

22 And, as I recall, the Court overruled
23 that objection and allowed us to make the objection at
24 this time.
25 THE COURT: Overruled.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter

2508

1 MR. JOHN HAGLER: And furthermore, we
2 would submit that even if relevant, the prejudicial
3 effect would vastly outweigh any probative value.
4 THE COURT: All right. Overruled.
5 MR. JOHN HAGLER: Note our exception.
6 THE COURT: Go ahead. Let's get
7 started with this. Mr. Shook.
8
9 Whereupon,
10
11 BARBARA JOVELL,
12
13 Was called as a witness, for the State of Texas, having
14 been first duly sworn to speak the truth, the whole

15 truth, and nothing but the truth, testified in open
16 court, as follows:
17
18 (OUTSIDE THE PRESENCE OF THE JURY)
19
20 DIRECT EXAMINATION
21
22 BY MR. TOBY L. SHOOK:
23 Q. State your name, please.

24 A. My name is Barbara Jovell,
25 J-o-v-e-l-l.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2509

1 Q. Ms. Jovell, do you know a woman by the
2 name of Darlie Routier?
3 A. Yes, I do.
4 Q. How long have you known her?
5 A. I have known her since about '87.
6 Q. Okay. And you're friends with her?
7 A. Yes, I am.
8 Q. Let me turn your attention to May of
9 '96 and ask if you went to her home to talk to her about
10 an incident that had happened?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. Okay. And did you talk to her in her
13 home that day about something that happened while you
14 were on vacation?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. Okay. Tell the Court the conversation
17 you had with the defendant on that day.
18 A. Darlie told me that she was trying to
19 attempt a suicide.
20 Q. Okay. Did she tell you how that
21 happened?
22 A. Yes. She told me that she had pills
23 out of the wrappers, and she was going to take them, and
24 she was writing a note but Darin walked in, and she put
25 things away, she hid from him. And she, if it wasn't for
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2510

1 the dog, Domain, dragging the wrappers from under the
2 bed, Darin would have never known.
3 Q. Okay. Did she tell you why she was
4 about to commit suicide?
5 A. Because sometimes she gets to feel
6 really strange, and she doesn't understand why. That
7 things were getting to her.
8 Sometimes she felt like everybody

9 expected too much of her, and there was more. Pretty
10 much, that things were happening, and she felt strange,
11 and she just didn't understand why. And, sometimes she
12 just feels like she wants to end it all.
13 And I have asked her -- I have told
14 her that she had three beautiful children and a loving
15 husband, and that she should get help. And she told me
16 that, yes, that she had talked with Darin, and that she
17 is going to go with the three children to Lubbock.

18 Q. Okay. Let me stop you there. Did you
19 counsel with her about that after she told you about her
20 thinking about, or preparing to commit suicide?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. Now, let me move you forward a little
23 bit, and ask you to go to the date of June 7th, after
24 Darlie Routier was in the hospital, that Friday. Did you
25 go to the hospital and see her?
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2511

1 A. Yes, sir.
2 Q. Okay. At one point in time, while you
3 were at the hospital visiting her, did Darlie Routier ask
4 other members, other people in the room to leave?
5 A. Yes, sir.
6 Q. Okay. Did she have a conversation?
7
8 THE COURT: Ma'am, can you keep your
9 voice up so that everybody can hear you?
10 THE WITNESS: Okay. Yes, sir. Is
11 that better?
12 THE COURT: Just relax. Yes. Okay.
13
14 BY MR. TOBY L. SHOOK:
15 Q. Did she have a conversation with you
16 after the others left?
17 A. Yes, sir.
18 Q. Okay. Tell the Judge what she told
19 you at that time.
20 A. She was concerned about her sexual
21 toys being in the house and police searching the house.
22 Q. Okay. Did she tell you anything else
23 at that time?
24 A. No.
25 Q. And I have asked you not to go into
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2512

1 another matter.
2 A. Yes. No, she didn't.
3 Q. Unless the Judge specifically told
4 you.
5 A. Right.
6 Q. So don't even mention that at this
7 time.
8 A. Okay.
9 Q. Okay. And did you -- what did you
10 tell her in response to that?
11 A. That she shouldn't worry about it
12 that. That she just lost her two children, and she

13 almost lost her life, and that shouldn't matter, that she
14 shouldn't even worry about those things.
15 Q. Now --
16 A. I'm sure everybody, a lot of people
17 have those things.
18 Q. Okay. Now then, let me move you
19 forward about a week later on the next Friday, June 14th.
20 Did you go to the grave site where the two children were
21 buried?
22 A. Yes, I have.
23 Q. Did you do that at Darlie's request?
24 A. Yes, sir.
25 Q. Okay. And, was there some type of
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2513

1 birthday party there at the grave site?
2 A. Yes, sir.
3 Q. Okay. And, were you present when a
4 news team was out there filming that birthday party?
5 A. Yes, sir, I was.
6 Q. Do you remember who the news reporter
7 was that was doing that?
8 A. I remember his name was Joe.
9 Q. Okay. Joe Munoz?
10 A. I believe so. That was his last name.
11 Q. Okay. And, did he interview Darlie
12 and Darin Routier?
13 A. Yes, he had.
14 Q. Okay. And, were you present during
15 those interviews?
16 A. Yes, I was.
17 Q. And did you hear them talking to the
18 reporter Joe Munoz?
19 A. Yes, sir, I did.
20 Q. And, at that party was silly string
21 shot over the grave, and did you all sing Happy Birthday?
22 A. Yes, we did.
23 Q. Okay. And, were you there at Darlie
24 Routier's request?
25 A. Yes.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2514

1 Q. Okay. And, was all of that
2 celebration filmed there by Channel 5 and Joe Munoz and
3 his team?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. You were present during all that?
6 A. Yes, I was.
7 Q. Were you just off camera?
8 A. I was trying to be off camera.
9 Q. Okay. Now, but you were -- you heard
10 the conversations between the three of them, did you not?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. As they were being interviewed?
13 A. Pretty much so. Yes, I heard, but I
14 don't remember exactly what was -- I mean --
15 Q. You didn't memorize every word?
16 A. No.
17 Q. Okay. And if I showed you a tape of
18 that interview -- and you have reviewed that this
19 morning; is that right?
20 A. Yes, I did.
21
22
23 (Whereupon, the following
24 mentioned item was
25 marked for
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2515

1 identification only
2 after which time the
3 proceedings were

4 resumed on the record
5 in open court, as
6 follows:)
7
8 BY MR. TOBY L. SHOOK:
9 Q. Okay. And did that tape -- let me
10 show you what has been marked as State's Exhibit 101.
11 Did that tape -- was that a tape of the interview that
12 you have just described to the Judge?
13 A. Yes.

14 Q. Okay. And, was that tape an accurate
15 representation of what went on there, as far as the
16 interview, and what Darlie did?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. What Darlie said?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. And you were just off camera watching
21 all that, is that right?

22 A. Yes.
23 Q. Okay.
24

25 MR. TOBY L. SHOOK: Your Honor, at
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2516

1 this time, we will offer State's Exhibit 101 for record
2 purposes, and we would like to play that for the Court
3 and offer it for admissibility before the jury.
4 THE COURT: All right.
5
6 (Whereupon, the videotape.

7 was played for the Court.)
8
9 THE COURT: All right. That is the
10 tape you want to show, Mr. Shook?
11 MR. TOBY L. SHOOK: Yes, sir. And
12 those are the three specific areas that the defense

13 indicated to me that they wanted a hearing on.
14 THE COURT: All right. Mr. Hagler, I
15 assume you want to make an objection.
16 MR. JOHN HAGLER: Yes, your Honor.
17 THE COURT: Okay. You can take one at
18 a time, whatever areas, one at a time.
19 MR. JOHN HAGLER: Okay. Your Honor,
20 the first area is going to be this testimony regarding
21 the alleged suicide attempt.
22 As the Court well knows, the burden is
23 on the State to make a threshold showing to the Court,
24 and establish beyond a reasonable doubt, that the
25 existence of this extraneous offense, and we would
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2517

1 classify this as an extraneous offense. I say extraneous
2 offense, I'm talking about 404-B material, your Honor.
3 We would submit, your Honor, Number 1,
4 that they have failed to make such a showing. And, in
5 particular, your Honor, Number 1, they have not -- may I
6 put this book up here, your Honor?
7 THE COURT: Oh, by all means.
8 MR. JOHN HAGLER: Your Honor, they
9 haven't made an adequate showing of an actual intent, on
10 the part of the defendant, to commit suicide. And
11 furthermore, your Honor, and I know the Court is well
12 aware of the concept or the definition of relevant
13 evidence, but we would submit further, in addition to
14 their failure to make a threshold showing beyond a

15 reasonable doubt of the conduct of the defendant.
16 Furthermore, your Honor, we would
17 vigorously urge that this testimony regarding alleged
18 suicide is simply not relevant. And again, I know the

19 Court is well aware of the definition, but just for the
20 purpose of this hearing, I would like to again state that
21 the definition means: Evidence having any tendency to
22 make the existence of any fact that is of consequence to
23 the determination of the action more probable or less
24 probable than it would be without the evidence.
25 Your Honor, I don't see any way, shape
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2518

1 or form that this testimony regarding an alleged suicide
2 attempt would have any bearing, would have any -- would

3 add any probative value to a determination, as to whether
4 or not the defendant is guilty of the charge alleged in
5 the indictment.
6 In other words, there is simply no
7 nexus, there is no connection between the so-called
8 statements regarding -- really it was not even a suicide
9 attempt, it's some statements regarding some future
10 intent to, I guess, to commit suicide.
11 But there's no nexus, there is no

12 connection between this testimony and the allegations
13 contained in the indictment. So, we would vigorously
14 urge under 401 that such testimony is not admissible.
15 THE COURT: All right. Are you
16 through with that one?
17 MR. JOHN HAGLER: Yes, your Honor.
18 THE COURT: Okay. Well, the Court
19 will overrule that objection and admit that.

20 MR. JOHN HAGLER: Well, and
21 furthermore, your Honor, under 404-B it's conduct which
22 we would submit that it's 404-B-type material. Again,
23 the word offense was not -- incorrect on my part, but it
24 is --
25 THE COURT: I understand.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter

2519

1 MR. JOHN HAGLER: As the Court well
2 knows, it extends into any type of bad acts, what have
3 you, that would cast an aspersion of doubt on the
4 defendant's conduct.
5 THE COURT: Well, the Court feels it
6 would tend to show a state of mind, and the Court would
7 hold that the probative value far outweighs any
8 prejudicial effect.

9 MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY: Could I be sure
10 that Mr. Hagler has developed that these -- this alleged
11 event is more than 30 days removed from the offense, and
12 that is part of our objection.
13 THE COURT: That is fine.
14 MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY: That the time
15 factor of the removal. And secondly, that a suicide,
16 vis-a-vis a homicide that there is no relevance -- that
17 there is no connection between those from a psychiatric
18 standpoint and a psychological standpoint.
19 THE COURT: The Court understands your
20 objection. Same ruling. Overruled.
21 Now, let's move on to the next one.

22 MR. JOHN HAGLER: Your Honor, the
23 second area, as I understood the testimony, was the

24 hospital visit regarding the so-called sex toys. I am
25 not going to spend too much time on this area, your
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2520

1 Honor, because I don't see any way, shape or form that
2 this could possibly be relevant.
3 THE COURT: It's not an offense. I'll
4 overrule that.
5 MR. JOHN HAGLER: Well, your Honor,

6 let's put it this way: I'm not arguing specifically as
7 an extraneous offense, but I'm arguing or submitting to
8 the Court, that the existence of, I'm not sure what is
9 meant by sexual toys. Again, I think that in itself is

10 vague. But, it's unclear, it's confusing, it is going to
11 be misleading to the jury. And then, it certainly
12 couldn't have any relevancy or any bearing, on whether or
13 not, in fact, the defendant had any so-called sexual
14 toys. What that would have any bearing or any
15 significance as to whether she committed the offense.

16 Furthermore, I would urge that it
17 would be 404-B material. And again, it's conduct that
18 casts only a bad light on the defendant.
19 Obviously, your Honor, they are

20 attempting to put this into evidence, and they are
21 obviously doing it for some reason. And the reason why
22 they are doing it is they want to show -- they want to
23 cast a shadow on the defendant on areas that are simply
24 irrelevant.
25 THE COURT: Mr. Mosty, do you have
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2521

1 something you want to say?
2 MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY: Mr. Hagler just
3 hit it.
4 THE COURT: All right. Overruled.
5 I'll admit that. So now, I guess the next area is on the
6 tape.
7 MR. JOHN HAGLER: The third area, your
8 Honor, is the going to be the tape. Starting off with

9 the authentication. I think this witness has already
10 stated that she doesn't recall, she was simply present
11 during this grave side matter.
12 As far as the authentication, the
13 threshold of requirement that the State carries. We
14 would submit that obviously the tape itself is not

15 self-authenticating.
16 They are required to properly
17 authenticate it through proper evidence and testimony,
18 under our Rules 901 and 902 and Rule 1001, 1001 through
19 1004.
20 One, is we don't -- all we have here
21 is a tape that they played. We know the name of

22 apparently the reporter who was present and who
23 interviewed the defendant and her husband.
24 We don't know what the chain of
25 custody the tape has been. We don't know the manner and
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2522

1 circumstances by which the tape was recorded. We don't
2 know whether or not there were any additions or
3 alterations to the tape, since the time of its recording
4 until the time it is being played in the courtroom at the
5 present time.
6 We don't know whether there have been
7 any alterations or changes, deletions or additions to the
8 tape. And therefore, at the outset, they have simply
9 failed to satisfy their threshold requirement to
10 establish and to authenticate the admission of the tape
11 into evidence.
12 Now, moving on with -- would the Court
13 want to rule on that?
14 THE COURT: Well, I will rule on that
15 one. I will overrule that and I will admit the tape.
16 MR. JOHN HAGLER: Okay. And again,
17 your Honor, I want to point out that the witness
18 testified, that she may have been present. I don't know
19 how much she heard. She simply said that she was present
20 and in fact she has even admitted that she doesn't recall
21 word for word what the statements were, and what was said
22 during the grave side matter.
23 THE COURT: I'll overrule that,
24 because she appears throughout the tape and the tape
25 speaks for itself on the screen. You can plainly see her
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2523

1 there. You can plainly see everyone involved. Both
2 Routiers, and Mr. Munoz who is also on the tape. You can
3 hear his voice, and you can see him. He is sitting in
4 the courtroom right now.
5 So, I will overrule that and I will
6 admit the tape.
7 MR. JOHN HAGLER: Well, your Honor, a
8 few more objections.
9 THE COURT: Oh, a few more. Okay.
10 MR. JOHN HAGLER: Your Honor, in
11 addition, there are numerous -- one of the requirements
12 on authentication is to identify the various voices on

13 the tape.
14 Your Honor, in addition to the
15 defendant's voice, obviously, there are going to be some
16 areas where there is no question that the defendant is
17 speaking, but there are numerous voices on this tape,

18 background voices, voices of unidentified individuals,
19 who we have no idea who they are, who is making the
20 statements, and what have you.
21 And therefore, we would object to the
22 fact that that, again, it shows a lack of authentication.
23 And furthermore, the numerous statements on the tape
24 constitute hearsay testimony under Rule 802, and
25 specifically the background voices and also the
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2524

1 statements by Darin Routier are going to be hearsay under
2 Rule 802.
3 THE COURT: Okay. Overruled. Next.
4 MR. JOHN HAGLER: Moving on, your
5 Honor, and again, this basically gets back to my earlier
6 statements having to do with this so-called alleged
7 suicide statement and future intent.
8 Your Honor, the tape itself that was
9 made a number of days after the offense alleged in this
10 indictment, we would submit, your Honor, that there has
11 been no showing of any relevancy. It does not constitute
12 any type of evidence or adds any probative value, if, in
13 fact, it was presented before the jury.
14 And therefore, we would urge that each
15 and all of the statements contained in the tape fail to
16 satisfy the relevancy test under Rule 401.
17 THE COURT: All right. Overruled.
18 And you will not be required to -- is that all?
19 MR. JOHN HAGLER: No, your Honor.
20 THE COURT: Oh, we're still going.
21 All right.
22 MR. JOHN HAGLER: In addition, your
23 Honor, we would further urge that this tape, even if, and
24 I'd ask for a 403 ruling in the event the Court admits
25 it.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2525

1 THE COURT: You will get it.
2 MR. JOHN HAGLER: But we would further
3 submit, your Honor, that this tape also constitutes 404-B
4 material in the fact that it shows -- and I know the
5 State is going to argue that this tape shows a lack of

6 remorse on the part of the defendant. We would submit
7 that this therefore, it falls into the area of 404-B.

8 And in particular, the fact that this
9 tape could be easily, and we would submit will be, and
10 possibly could be misinterpreted by the jury. It's
11 confusing and it's misleading.
12 The fact is, that each and every
13 individual reacts differently to a crisis in their life.
14 And this tape, when viewed by the jurors, is going to be
15 misinterpreted by the jurors.
16 And therefore, we would urge that this
17 tape be suppressed because of the fact it will be and

18 could be misconstrued by a juror, under 404-B and 403.
19 THE COURT: Okay. Are we at the end?
20 MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY: Let me ask you
21 a question?
22 MR. JOHN HAGLER: Just one second,
23 your Honor.
24 THE COURT: All right. That's it?

25 MR. JOHN HAGLER: Yes, your Honor.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2526

1 MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY: I'll second
2 what Mr. Hagler said.
3 THE COURT: All right. The final
4 objection is overruled. The tape will be admitted under
5 Rule 403-B. The probative effect showing state of mind
6 far outweighs any prejudicial value -- any prejudicial

7 effect.
8 And, the Court will note your
9 objections in this hearing, and you will not have to
10 object in front of the jury.
11 All right. Are we ready to bring the
12 jury in?
13 MR. TOBY SHOOK: We're ready, Judge.
14 THE COURT: All right. Then bring the
15 jury in please.
16
17 (Whereupon, the jury

18 Was returned to the
19 Courtroom, and the
20 Proceedings were

21 Resumed on the record,
22 In open court, in the
23 Presence and hearing
24 Of the defendant,
25 As follows:)

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2527

1
2 THE COURT: All right. Good morning,
3 ladies and gentlemen.
4 Let the record reflect that all
5 parties in the trial are present, and the jury is seated.
6 Ladies and gentlemen, this witness has
7 already been sworn outside of your presence. Mr. Shook.
8 MR. TOBY SHOOK: Judge, at this time,
9 the State will offer State's Exhibit 106, and it is
10 certified.
11 MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY: No objection.
12 THE COURT: All right. State's
13 Exhibit No. 106 is admitted.
14
15 (Whereupon, the above

16 mentioned item was
17 received in evidence

18 as State's Exhibit No. 106,
19 for all purposes

20 after which time,
21 the proceedings were
22 resumed on the record,
23 as follows:)
24
25

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2528

1 Whereupon,
2
3 BARBARA JOVELL,
4
5 Was called as a witness, for the State of Texas having
6 been previously duly sworn by the Court to speak the
7 truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth,
8 testified further in open court, in the presence of the
9 jury, as follows:
10
11
12 DIRECT EXAMINATION
13
14 BY MR. TOBY L. SHOOK:
15 Q. Would you tell us your name, please?
16 A. My name is Barbara Jovell.
17 Q. Okay. Throughout your testimony,
18 please speak in a loud, clear voice. Okay?
19 A. Yes, sir.
20 Q. If you don't understand anyone's
21 questions, just ask them to repeat it and we will be glad
22 to do that. Okay?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. Keep that voice up.
25 A. Yes.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2529

1 Q. All right. Where do you live Miss
2 Jovell? Is it Jovell?
3 A. Yes. J-o-v-e-l-l.
4 Q. I am pronouncing it right then?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. Where do you live?
7 A. I live in Dallas, in Garland.
8 Q. Okay.
9 A. Do you want the whole address?

10 Q. Is Garland a suburb of Dallas?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. Where are you originally from?
13 A. I am originally from Poland.

14 Q. When did move here to the United
15 States?
16 A. In 1973.
17 Q. Okay. And did you move here with your
18 family?
19 A. My father was already here. My mother
20 and my sister came here together, yes.
21 Q. Is your mother -- do you call her
22 Babcia?
23 A. Everybody else do. I call her Mom.
24 Q. Okay. All right. Is she the lady
25 that testified yesterday?
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2530

1 A. Yes.
2 Q. Okay. And when did you move to the
3 Dallas area?
4 A. Around maybe '81 or so.
5 Q. Okay. And what brought you to Texas?
6 A. I moved in with my ex-husband. I
7 moved with my ex-husband and his family.
8 Q. Okay. Was he your ex-husband then?
9 A. No.
10 Q. That happened later?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. Okay. And have you resided in the
13 Dallas area since that time?
14 A. Yes, I have.
15 Q. Okay. Did you eventually go to work
16 at a company called Cuplex?
17 A. Yes, I have.
18 Q. When did you start at that company?
19 A. Shortly after -- about two weeks after
20 I came here.
21 Q. Okay. And tell the jury what type of
22 company Cuplex is?
23 A. They make printed circuit boards from
24 the scratch to the electrical test.
25 Q. Circuit boards for what?
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2531

1 A. That's the stuff that goes into the
2 computers and makes them work.
3 Q. Circuit boards for computers?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. All right. And what did you do for
6 Cuplex?
7 A. I was an electrical test and I was
8 trouble shooting for problems.
9 Q. Okay. Now, while you worked there,
10 did you come to know a man by the name of Darin Routier?
11 A. Yes, I have.

12 Q. Okay. About what year was it that you
13 met Darin Routier?
14 A. Around '87, middle of '87 or so.
15 Q. Okay. Did he come to work there at
16 Cuplex?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. About how old was he when you met him?
19 A. 19, around 19 or so.
20 Q. What did he do there at Cuplex?
21 A. He was working in my area at that
22 time.
23 Q. Okay. Did y'all eventually become
24 friends?
25 A. Yes.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2532

1 Q. Okay. Did you later come to meet his
2 fiancee?
3 A. Yes, I have.
4 Q. Okay. What was her name?
5 A. Darlie.
6 Q. Do you see Darlie here in the
7 courtroom today?
8 A. Yes, I do. That is her over there.
9 Q. You are pointing to the woman here in
10 the coat here at the counsel table?
11 A. Yes.
12
13 MR. TOBY L. SHOOK: Your Honor, if the
14 record could reflect, that the witness has identified the
15 defendant.
16 THE COURT: Yes.
17
18 BY MR. TOBY L. SHOOK:
19 Q. Had you already become friends with
20 Darin Routier before you met Darlie?
21 A. I was with Darin friends first. Later
22 on, maybe a few months, maybe a little more, I don't
23 quite remember, but it was a while before I met Darlie.
24 Q. Was that sometime in 1987 also?
25 A. Yes.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2533

1 Q. Okay. How old was Darlie Routier when
2 you met her?
3 A. I believe around 16 or 17.
4 Q. Okay. Were they engaged at that time?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. After you met her, did you and Darlie
7 become friends?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. Were Darin and Darlie eventually
10 married?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. When was that?
13 A. August 27th, '88.
14 Q. August 27th, 1988?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. Okay. Where did that take place?
17 A. In Lubbock.
18 Q. Were you there?
19 A. Yes, I was.
20 Q. Did you participate in the ceremony?
21 A. Pardon me?
22 Q. Did you participate in the ceremony?
23 A. Yes, I was the maid of honor.
24 Q. Maid of honor for Darlie?
25 A. For Darlie, yes.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2534

1 Q. Okay. Did Darin continue to work at
2 Cuplex with you after they were married?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. Did Darlie come to work there for a
5 while?
6 A. Yes, after they were married for a
7 little while.
8 Q. How long did she work there?
9 A. I don't exactly remember but I
10 remember she was pregnant and she had an accident.
11 Before she had the baby at work there, so she was kind
12 of -- they put her with pay to stay home.
13 Q. Okay. Did Darin and Darlie have
14 children from their marriage?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. How many children did they have?
17 A. Three.
18 Q. Who was the first?
19 A. Devon Routier, I'm sorry, Devon Rush
20 Routier.
21 Q. When was he born?
22 A. June of '89.
23 Q. Okay. Who was the second born?

24 A. Damon Routier, Damon Christian
25 Routier.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2535

1 Q. When was Damon born?
2 A. February of '91.
3 Q. Okay. And did they have a third
4 child?
5 A. Yes. Drake, and he was born October
6 of '95.
7 Q. Okay. Now, did Darin also develop a
8 business on the side when he was at Cuplex?
9 A. Yes, he had.
10 Q. Okay. What type of business was that?
11 A. He was not doing testing, but he was
12 building fixtures to test printed circuit boards.
13 Q. Okay. Did he do that out of his home?
14 A. Yes, he have.
15 Q. Did you help him with that sometimes?
16 A. Yes, I have.
17 Q. Did you do that just on good will or
18 were you paid for your services?
19 A. I was paid.
20 Q. Did Darlie also assist in that type of
21 work?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. Okay. Eventually, did Darin leave
24 Cuplex and start his own company?
25 A. Yes, he had.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2536

1 Q. What was the name of that company?
2 A. Testnec Electronics.
3 Q. Okay. And about what time was that
4 that he started that company?
5 A. I believe it was around -- well, I
6 started working for him sometimes in May or June of 1992.
7 So, that was just a little bit before that, that he
8 opened it.
9 Q. You came to work for him as an
10 employee?
11 A. Yes, I have.
12 Q. Tell the jury what kind of company
13 that was, what you all did at Testnec.
14 A. We tested printed circuit boards.
15 Q. Same type thing?
16 A. Yes. Load fixture, drilling, the

17 material is -- it's a process that you do, but it was
18 drilling, setting up fixtures and then testing printed
19 circuit boards for companies.
20 Q. Who worked at the company?

21 A. For the longest time it was just Darin
22 and Darlie and I.
23 Q. Okay. And what did do you for the
24 company?
25 A. Well, I did everything, the testing,
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2537

1 the cleaning.
2 Q. What did Darlie do for the company?
3 A. She kept the books and plus she helped
4 sometimes to test when it was very busy.
5 Q. Okay. And did -- the company started
6 in '92; is that right?
7 A. Yes, around 1992. I'm pretty sure,
8 well, around '92 because I started working shortly after
9 they opened.
10 Q. Did the company do well when it
11 started off?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. Did it do well through '92, '93?
14 A. Yes.

15 Q. '94?
16 A. Yes.

17 Q. And most of '95?
18 A. Yes, pretty much so. We had our slow
19 periods sometimes but usually --
20 Q. And this entire time, is it you, Darin
21 and Darlie the main employees at Testnec?
22 A. Yes, but there is -- yes, through '94.
23 Well, we had my daughter working there part time. She
24 was still at school. And there was time that Julie Clark
25 came for a little while and worked with us too.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2538

1 Q. Primarily, though, it was you, Darin
2 and Darlie?
3 A. And Darlie.
4 Q. Okay. Now, in the last couple of
5 years, did you begin to see a change in Darlie Routier?
6 A. Yes, I have.
7 Q. Okay. Would you tell the jurors what
8 that change was?
9 A. She was up and down. It was really
10 hard to tell, but she was -- she became very

11 materialistic which I brought up to Darin.
12 Q. I'm sorry. Very much what?
13 A. Materialistic. She started to begin
14 to love material things.
15 Q. Materialistic?
16 A. Yes.

17 Q. Okay.
18 A. She was -- well, she had ups and
19 downs. She gets depressed, she gained weight, and she
20 started fighting with Darin about money.
21 Q. Okay. Now, you say she got
22 materialistic?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. Did she become concerned with money
25 and buying things?
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2539

1 A. Yes. She went and bought things a
2 lot.
3 Q. Okay. Now, their company was doing
4 pretty good; is that right?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. Okay. But, was she different from the
7 Darlie you originally met back in 1987?
8 A. Well, she liked pretty things and she
9 did like to look well at that time. But it was -- well,
10 how do you say it, well, not as much as I saw later.
11 Q. Now then, did Darlie Routier
12 participate in business decisions there at Testnec?
13 A. Yes, she had.
14 Q. Were you present during conversations
15 involving business there at Testnec?

16 A. Yes, many times.
17 Q. Okay. And was Mrs. Routier involved
18 in those conversations?

19 A. Yes.
20 Q. As far as the company, was there a big
21 reinvestment in the company for new equipment, things of
22 that nature?
23 A. At first the tester was bought and
24 then later they only purchase a used drill, and then a
25 digitizer.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2540

1 Q. What items were purchased then that
2 you observed with the money that was made there at
3 Testnec?
4 A. There was nothing more going into
5 Testnec.
6 Q. Okay.
7 A. It was going to Darlie.
8 Q. When you say going to Darlie what are
9 you talking about?
10 A. She loves to shop.

11 Q. She liked to shop?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. And what type of things did she start
14 buying?
15 A. She had wonderful taste, she would buy
16 expensive things.
17 Q. Okay. Did they purchase a new home?
18 A. Yes. They had a new home built, they
19 built a new home, yes.
20 Q. Okay. And when was that?
21 A. Oh, shortly after -- maybe '93, maybe
22 end of '92. Shortly after we had the company. I'm not
23 for sure.
24 Q. Okay. And who decorated the home?
25 A. Darlie did.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2541

1 Q. All right. Did she purchase other
2 things at that time, start buying more and more things?
3 A. Well, furniture, you know, things like
4 that, things for the house.
5 Q. And what about personal things?

6 A. Well, she buy a lot of beautiful
7 clothes and stuff like that for her and her children.
8 Q. Okay. Any items as far as jewelry
9 goes?
10 A. Yes. She liked to start buying
11 jewelry.
12 Q. And was that just something that
13 happened the last couple of years?
14 A. More so, there was a purchase of
15 jewelry more so, at that time, yes.

16 Q. Okay. Now, did you talk to her about
17 the things she was buying?
18 A. Well, yes.
19 Q. Did you have conversations about that?
20 A. Well, yes, she showed me. She tell me
21 her ideas, and how she is going to decorate. And there
22 were times that I went with her.
23 Q. Okay. Did you talk to Darin about
24 needing new equipment for the company?
25 A. Yes, I have.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2542

1 Q. Okay. Were you having some problems
2 there with the work you were doing?
3 A. Well, yes, because I needed pins for
4 grids and --
5 Q. Can you speak up?
6 A. I needed pins for grids because the
7 grid was too small and some of the types of jobs that we
8 did was larger and I had to stop test which is not very
9 good. And the tester needed to be fixed because it was
10 lopsided a lot of times.
11 Q. Okay. Was that -- was money paid for
12 that tester to be fixed or any new equipment bought?
13 A. He tried to, you know, kind of
14 wiggle-jiggle the tester and to kind of make it work.

15 Q. But no new equipment was bought in
16 regards to that?
17 A. No, sir.
18 Q. All right. Now, in late '95, did
19 business slacken off there at Testnec?
20 A. Yes, it had.
21 Q. Okay. And did it pick up at the
22 beginning of '96 at all?
23 A. Not really. We were slow, a lot
24 slower than we have ever been.
25 Q. Did you have a real long slow period
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2543

1 at that time?
2 A. Very long.
3 Q. Did that slow period extend into --
4 A. Well, we still have some jobs. We

5 didn't get new jobs. When we do repeat jobs, it's just
6 cheap. We have to get new jobs for us to make money. So
7 we get mostly repeats and hardly any new jobs.
8 Q. So the business was slow through '96?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. Okay. Now, did that cause another
11 change in Darlie Routier's attitude when the business
12 slackened off?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. Okay. What happened with Darlie at
15 that time?
16 A. She was nervous and depressed and she
17 fought with Darin a lot.
18 Q. Okay. Did you witness a lot of these
19 fights and arguments?
20 A. Arguments, yes.
21 Q. Okay. They didn't physically hit each
22 other, did they?
23 A. No, I have never seen them hit each
24 other.
25 Q. Did these arguments become frequent?
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2544

1 A. Yes.
2 Q. And what were the arguments over that
3 you witnessed?
4 A. Money.
5 Q. Concerning what about money?
6 A. Because money wasn't coming in and
7 there was lot of bills to pay. There was just no money.
8 There was enough, as Darin put it to me, "Oh, I am paying
9 you by --"
10
11 MR. JOHN HAGLER: I'm going to object
12 to the statement by Darin, hearsay.
13 THE COURT: I'll sustain the
14 objection.
15 THE WITNESS: I'm sorry. What did I
16 do?
17 THE COURT: That's okay. Don't worry.
18 They are going to object all the time.
19 I will rule on them -- well, they will make -- I mean,
20 both sides will make appropriate objections. I will rule
21 on those, and then you just go on back, and we will tell
22 you when to stop and when not to stop.
23 THE WITNESS: Okay.
24 THE COURT: But, we have a hearsay
25 rule.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2545

1 THE WITNESS: Okay.
2 THE COURT: Don't say what other
3 people said.
4 THE WITNESS: Oh, okay.
5 THE COURT: You just say what you
6 know. Don't worry, just keep going. We'll go through
7 it.
8 THE WITNESS: The money was slowing
9 down, and Darlie was upset, depressed. Yes, she fought a
10 lot with Darin. And sometimes she will become calm, and
11 things will be all right, and then it starts up again,

12 because --
13
14 BY MR. TOBY L. SHOOK:
15 Q. Did these fights increase once the
16 business slowed down?

17 A. Yes.
18 Q. Okay. Now, was Darlie Routier working
19 up there full time at that time?
20 A. No, not really, she just comes
21 sometimes.
22 Q. Okay. And what did she do when she
23 came up there? What was her role?
24 A. Well, she just came in sometimes. And
25 my daughter was doing some paperwork but Darlie was
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2546

1 doing -- I don't exactly know for sure, but invoices or
2 something like that, to do with bookkeeping and things,
3 stuff, you know, and then she would be on the phone
4 shopping.
5 Q. Still shopping?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. Was she still in on the business
8 decisions with the company?
9 A. Yes, she was.

10 Q. You have come to know Darlie and Darin
11 Routier pretty well over the years, haven't you?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. Who is the more dominant personality
14 between those two?
15 A. Darlie was.
16 Q. Okay. And, did Darlie have a temper?
17 A. Yeah.
18 Q. What kinds of things would get her
19 mad?
20 A. Well, sometimes she wanted some --
21
22 MR. JOHN HAGLER: Your Honor, we will
23 object. This is irrelevant. She has already expressed
24 an opinion. We are going to object to the details as
25 being irrelevant.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2547

1 THE COURT: Overruled. Go ahead, if
2 you know.
3 THE WITNESS: Where was I? Can you
4 repeat that question?
5
6 BY MR. TOBY L. SHOOK:
7 Q. You said she had a temper. What kinds
8 of things would get her mad?
9 A. Well, if Darin -- well, she apparently
10 didn't show my daughter how to do that little part of the
11 invoices or something, so Tammy told me --
12 Q. Well, now, let me stop you there.

13 Don't go into with what maybe Tammy told you or Darin
14 told you.
15 A. Well, as to the money -- to get the
16 money out of the customers. Money or -- mostly money.
17 Q. Okay. Now, did you become worried

18 about the way Darlie was acting, and her emotional state?
19 A. Yes, I was.
20 Q. Okay. And, did you speak to Darin
21 specifically about that?
22 A. Yes, I have.
23 Q. Okay. Now, without going into
24 anything Darin said, tell the jury what you told Darin.
25 A. I have told Darin that, "Don't you see
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2548

1 what's going on? Darlie was able to take care of the
2 house, the children and some, and the business." And I
3 said, "Don't you see lately, she cannot -- she has maids
4 clean the house, she has people to do the laundry, she

5 has people to help with the children. There is something
6 bothering Darlie. Something is wrong."
7 Q. Did you give him advice as to what he
8 should do?
9 A. To get help.
10 Q. What did you mean by get help?
11 A. To do anything. To go see a doctor or
12 maybe somebody she could talk to, because something bad
13 will happen.
14 Q. And, about what time was this in '96?
15 A. That was before I left for my vacation
16 at the end of --
17 Q. Go ahead.
18 A. At the end of April, and the beginning
19 of May, I went on vacation at the end of April, and that
20 was happening at that time.
21 Q. So you went on vacation at the end of
22 April of '96?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. And this conversation that you just
25 related to the jury that you told Darin happened before
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2549

1 you went on vacation?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. Okay. Did Darlie sometimes bring the
4 children up to the shop?
5 A. Yes, she had.
6 Q. Do you recall an incident when she

7 brought the boys up to the shop, around this same time
8 period?
9 A. Sometimes with just the baby and Damon
10 mostly, because Devon was still at school.
11 Q. Okay. Do you recall the times she

12 brought the boys up and wanted Darin to take care of
13 them?
14 A. Well, she had errands to run so we
15 would keep an eye on the children.
16 Q. Okay. Let me turn your attention now
17 to when you got back from your vacation. When did you
18 get back from your vacation?
19 A. In May. Probably, I know the first
20 week of May I was gone, and then I came back along that
21 time.

22 Q. Okay. When you got back, did you have
23 a talk with your daughter Tammy? Don't go into anything
24 that was said. But did you have a talk?
25 A. Yes, I have.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2550

1 Q. Was she still working at Testnec at
2 that time?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. Did you also have a discussion with
5 Darin on that day?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. Subsequent to that talk, did you go
8 see Darlie Routier?
9 A. Yes, I have.
10 Q. Okay. And when did you go see her
11 after that talk?
12 A. I went to see her at her house.
13 Q. Okay. And who was there at the house?
14 A. Just her, the baby and Damon.
15 Q. Okay. And what did you talk to her

16 about when you went to -- and this was going to be in
17 May, I take it, when you got back?
18 A. Yes, I got back in May. So, when I
19 came back, what I have learned, I got concerned and I

20 wanted to talk with Darin and make sure that she was all
21 right.
22 Q. What did she tell you had happened
23 while you were on vacation?
24 A. She told me that she was trying to
25 commit suicide.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2551

1 Q. Did she tell you how that happened?
2 A. Yes. She said that she was just going
3 to do it. She had all the pills out of the wrappers and
4 she was writing a note, and then she heard Darin come in,
5 and she put things away very quickly, and she threw some
6 wrappers under the bed, and, if it wasn't for Domain, the
7 dog, Darin would have never known.
8 And, because Domain was -- he started
9 playing with the wrappers and taking them out from under
10 the bed.
11 Q. Did you ask her why she was going to
12 do that?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. What did she say?
15 A. I told her, that she needs to get
16 help, because she has three beautiful children and a good
17 husband, and if she does something to herself, what would
18 her children think, that their mama didn't love them.
19 Q. Did she tell you why she was going to
20 commit suicide?
21 A. Yes, because sometimes she didn't
22 understand how she felt. Sometimes she felt strange and
23 that things got too much for her, and sometimes she just
24 felt like wanting to end it all, and she doesn't
25 understand it.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2552

1 So I told her, to please get help.
2 And she told me, that she already discussed it with
3 Darin, and that she was going to take the three children,
4 and go to Lubbock and that Sarilda was going to take care
5 of her three children when she goes.
6 Q. Who is Sarilda?
7 A. Sarilda is her mother-in-law.
8 Q. Okay.
9 A. But then she turned around and told me
10 that she don't know about it, because how does she know
11 that it is going to help her.
12 And I told her that she doesn't have
13 to. If she doesn't like it, that she could get maybe a
14 counselling a little bit, and maybe to put her on a
15 little medication, to see what is bothering her. And, if
16 she doesn't like it, she could always refuse and maybe
17 see somebody else.
18 And she says, well, she was kind of
19 afraid, because she said that if anything ever happens
20 between her and Darin, that Sarilda may take the children
21 away from her.
22 And I says -- because she would be in
23 the hospital, you know, to help her mentally. And, I
24 told her that she shouldn't worry about it, because she
25 will be going on her own, saying that something is
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2553

1 bothering me, and I want to know what it is.
2 Q. Did she talk to you about the weight
3 she had gained, and that that was bothering her also?
4 A. Yes, it bothered her very much.
5 Q. What did you tell her about that?

6 A. Oh, that she makes me sick, such a
7 beautiful young woman, with three children. To me she

8 looked beautiful. And I said she was just giving herself
9 a complex and that would make her sick.
10 Q. Did you also talk about the money
11 situation and the slow business there at Testnec?
12 A. Yes. I showed her that -- well, she
13 was worried, because that was the longest period that we
14 had that was so slow. And she did have big bills. But,
15 I have told her, "Hey, you know, things will pick up,
16 things will be all right. You just go get your help and
17 me and Darin will get with it. Things will pick up, and
18 things will be all right," for her not to worry about
19 that, for her to worry about her.
20 Q. Did she express some concern about the
21 bills that were coming in, and about their house?
22 A. No, not really. She mostly said the
23 children sometimes were too much, and the neighbor's
24 children wanted to play there.
25 And I told her, I said people expect
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2554

1 so much of her. I told her that people could expect all
2 they want, she could only deliver what she can.
3 And for the children, to tell their
4 mothers, for a change, to let them play over there.
5 And she said that she did mention it,
6 but she goes, "Well, sometimes I don't really mind and
7 sometimes it gets too much".
8 Q. Now, did she seem to get somewhat
9 better after that visit that you had with her?
10 A. Yes, somewhat, but --
11 Q. Did she go to Lubbock and follow your
12 advice?
13 A. No.
14 Q. Did she get on any medication to help
15 her with her weight?
16 A. Well, the only thing she got on was
17 diet pills.
18 Q. She got on diet pills?
19 A. Yes, sir.
20 Q. Let me turn your attention to early
21 June, and ask if --
22 A. I'm sorry.
23 Q. It's okay. Did you talk to Darlie
24 about your mother coming to work for her?
25 A. Darlie called me.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2555

1 Q. Okay. What did Darlie say to you when
2 she called you?
3 A. She asked me to -- if my mother would
4 consider coming and helping her out by working, helping

5 her, you know, with laundry and light housekeeping.
6 Q. And what did you say to Darlie?

7 A. I told her that I would talk to my
8 mother. I have to talk with her and what days, if she
9 agrees.

10 Q. Had Darlie had people help clean and
11 watch her children before this?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. Okay. How soon before this had that
14 been going on?
15 A. She had a maid, but I'm not for sure,
16 I think, well, I believe that she let her go before even
17 my mom arrived to Texas.
18 Q. Okay. Did your mother agree to go
19 over there and do the housework for Darlie?
20 A. Well, I kind of asked my mom to. I
21 asked my mom, and we talked, and she agreed to work for
22 Darlie three days.
23 I don't exactly remember if Darlie

24 picked those days or my mom. I believe my mom or Darlie,
25 maybe Darlie picked those days, it was Tuesday, Wednesday
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2556

1 and Friday.
2 Q. Okay. Did you take your mother over
3 there on that Tuesday, June the 4th?
4 A. Yes, I have.
5 Q. And when you dropped your mother off,
6 did you pick anyone up?
7 A. Darin.
8 Q. Okay. Why did you pick Darin up?
9 A. I believe he left the Pathfinder for
10 Darlie if she needs it. Since I dropped my mom off, it
11 would be easy for him to ride with me.

12 Q. Did Darin have a car?
13 A. It was a Jaguar, yes.

14 Q. What was wrong with that car at that
15 time?
16 A. It broke down.
17 Q. How long had it been broken down?
18 A. Oh, I don't remember. But, shortly,
19 not -- I don't really remember, it broke down just around
20 that time.
21 Q. So you gave him a ride to work that
22 day?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. Okay. And, did you give your mother a
25 ride over to Darlie's the next day, that Wednesday, June
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2557

1 5th?
2 A. Yes, I did.
3 Q. Okay. And did you give Darin a ride
4 to work on that day?
5 A. I don't remember.
6 Q. Okay. About what time did you return
7 on Wednesday to pick your mother up?
8 A. Around, maybe, 5:15 or so, somewhere
9 around that time.
10 Q. Okay. Who was at the house when you
11 went to pick her up?
12 A. My mother and Darlie.
13 Q. Where were they?
14 A. They were in the kitchen.
15 Q. And what did you?
16 A. I came in in the kitchen and I spoke
17 to them. I said, "Hey, it looks nice." And they said,
18 Yeah, that they did everything. Everything was cleaned
19 up and the only thing Darlie had to do is pick up.
20 There was -- everything was cleaned
21 and washed. But there was clothes on the kitchen cabinet
22 counter still folded up that Darlie was suppose to bring
23 upstairs.
24 Q. Okay. Did you want to stay there when
25 you got there?
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2558

1 A. Yes, I felt pretty good and I wanted
2 to stay a few minutes and talk to Darlie.
3 Q. Okay. Did you get anything to drink?
4 A. Yes, I had a beer.
5 Q. Okay. And, did you sit down?
6 A. Pardon me?
7 Q. Where did you sit down?
8 A. I really didn't sit down. I was kind
9 of around the kitchen island, you know, one of the deals
10 that sits in the middle of your kitchen.
11 Q. Would that be island there?
12 A. Yes, I was kind of around there and I
13 don't remember -- I was kind of, yeah, around that on
14 both sides, kind of moving around.
15 Q. Now, did you decide to stay there or
16 did you leave soon after that?
17 A. I believe I had a beer and my mom was
18 rushing me to leave.
19 Q. Your mom wanted to get out of there?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. What mood was Darlie in when you left
22 that house?
23 A. She was upset.
24 Q. How do you know she was upset?
25 A. She was going back and forth, and she
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2559

1 was upset.
2 Q. You say going back and forth, are you
3 talking about walking?
4 A. Yes, she was pacing back and forth and
5 she was upset. And I have seen Darlie upset, so I know
6 that something was wrong.
7 Q. Okay. You have seen her in that mood
8 before?
9 A. Yes. And she was upset and, you know,
10 she was still kind of moving around. She didn't really
11 want to continue conversations with me.
12 Or maybe a few things were said, but I
13 don't quite remember. All I remember is I walked in and
14 I have two nerved-up women.
15 Q. You had what?
16 A. Two nerved-up women, my mom and
17 Darlie. My mom saying, "Let's get out, let's get out".
18 Q. So they were both upset?
19 A. And Darlie is pacing -- doing
20 something, but she is not really doing -- I don't know
21 what she is doing, but she is going back and forth.
22 Q. Okay. Now, did you soon then leave
23 the house with your mother?
24 A. Yes, I have.
25 Q. Okay. Where did you park your car?
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2560

1 A. I parked my car out front of the
2 house.
3 Q. Okay. As you drove off, did you see
4 any other cars coming down the street?
5 A. Yes, I have.
6 Q. What cars did you see?
7 A. I saw a black car passing by us really
8 fast.
9 Q. Okay. It passed by you?
10 A. It passed us, really fast. I was
11 going slow and we were going to turn to Linda Vista from
12 Eagle Drive, and we were just not too far from going
13 towards Linda Vista before we turned and that is when the
14 car went really fast passing by us.
15 Q. Okay. Describe that car, please?
16 A. It's a black car with a -- the back of
17 the -- it was tinted windows, the back of the car, the
18 window was kind of straight and there was short trunk and
19 then, you know, short, going down like that, kind of
20 sporty look.
21 Q. Short trunk?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. Okay. Did you see who was driving the
24 car?
25 A. No, sir, I have not.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2561

1 Q. And when the car drove by did it upset
2 your mother?
3 A. Yes, it did.
4 Q. Did you see Darin Routier anywhere
5 around at that time, also?
6 A. As we were leaving, I believe we waved
7 to him and Dana.
8 Q. Who is Dana?
9 A. Dana is Darlie's sister.
10 Q. And how old is she?
11 A. I believe she is around 15 or 16.
12 Q. Were they on their way to the house
13 from work?
14 A. Yes. Well, they already left work
15 before me because --
16 Q. Okay. They were on their way home
17 then?
18 A. Yes. I'm sorry.
19 Q. That's all right. Now then, that was
20 Wednesday evening. Early Thursday morning, did you get a
21 phone call?
22 A. Yes, I have.
23 Q. Okay. About what time was that?
24 A. Around 3 o'clock in the morning.
25 Q. Okay. Who called you?
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2562

1 A. My daughter.
2 Q. Okay. And after you got that phone
3 call, where did you go?
4 A. I went to Darlie's house.
5 Q. When you got to Darlie's house, what
6 was going on?
7 A. There was a bunch of -- there was
8 police cars, fire trucks, the house was taped off.
9 Q. Okay. Did you talk with someone there
10 at the -- in front of the residence?
11 A. Yes, I talked with my daughter and

12 Dana a little bit, and then I talked to a policeman.
13 Q. And did you leave the front of the
14 house and go somewhere else at that time?

15 A. I went to the hospital.
16 Q. Okay. Which hospital did you go to?
17 A. Dallas Baylor.
18 Q. Okay. Eventually that day, did you
19 get in to see Darlie Routier?

20 A. Yes, I have.
21 Q. Where was she when you saw her?
22 A. In intensive care room.
23 Q. Okay. And do you recall what time of
24 the day it was when you were talking to her?
25 A. We were there practically all day or
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2563

1 half a day. I had to -- Darin had us leave and check on
2 the business with Dana. We were there most of the
3 morning and we left after we saw Darin. Not really after
4 though, it was sometime we were through. There was
5 sometime later that day, maybe evening, maybe somewhere
6 around, maybe evening.
7 Q. So you were there a while, left to
8 help out something with Darin and then came back?
9 A. Went and came back, yes.
10 Q. Okay. When you were there the first
11 time, did you talk to Darlie?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. Okay. Did she tell you what had
14 happened to her?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. Tell the jury what she told you had
17 happened to her.
18 A. She told me that she heard Damon going
19 "Mommy, Mommy." He leaned on her saying, "Mommy, Mommy."
20 And she felt pressure on her legs, and
21 she opened her eyes and the man was coming down straight
22 with a knife at her throat, and then if she didn't put
23 her arm up, he would have killed her.
24 Q. Then what did she say happened?
25 A. Damon -- she didn't see nothing more,
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2564

1 but she says that she picks up -- maybe I'm not
2 remembering correctly, but Damon was following her.
3 She was going after a man through the
4 kitchen. It was the kitchen, she was going after the
5 man. And Damon was behind her and she told -- she pushed
6 him and told him to go back, "To wait for Mommy. Just
7 wait for Mommy." And she went out to the garage, and
8 that's all she said.
9 Q. Okay. Did you go up to the hospital
10 the next day on Friday?
11 A. Yes, I did.
12 Q. Were there a lot of other friends and
13 relatives there in her room?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. At one point in time, did Darlie
16 ask -- well, did Darlie make a request there in the room?
17 A. Yes, she asked everybody to leave the
18 room but for me to stay behind.
19 Q. Okay. Did everyone comply with her
20 request?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. Okay. So who was left in the room?
23 A. Just Darlie and I.
24 Q. And then what happened?
25 A. Nothing at first. She was -- we had
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2565

1 eye contact for the longest time. And we had eye contact
2 for the longest time and it kind of scared me because I

3 told her, "Something bad is happening." I don't know.
4 I sat down next to her and I said,
5 "Darlie, please talk to me. What's going on? Please
6 talk to me." And --
7 Q. What did she say at that time?

8 A. She told me that she had sexual toys
9 in the house and that the police going to see them.

10 Q. What did you tell her about that?
11 A. I told her, that, "My God, you
12 shouldn't worry about those things. The babies were
13 killed and you almost got killed. You think they
14 weren't -- that they are going to worry about the toys.
15 I told her, a lot of people have toys." And that was her
16 private thing.
17 Q. Let me turn your attention to the next
18 week. Did you see Darlie again?
19
20 THE COURT: Just a minute. Ma'am, you
21 have been on the stand a long time. Would you want to
22 take a little break?
23 THE WITNESS: No, I'm fine.
24 THE COURT: Okay. Thank you. Go
25 ahead, please.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2566

1 THE WITNESS: I'll be okay. I'm
2 sorry.
3 THE COURT: No, there's no problem.
4 If you want to take a little break, we can take a little
5 break. All right. Thank you. Go ahead, please.
6
7 BY MR. TOBY L. SHOOK:
8 Q. Did you see Darlie again after she was
9 out of the hospital at her mother's house?
10 A. Yes, I have.
11 Q. Okay. Was that sometime the next
12 week?
13 A. Yeah, following week, yes.
14 Q. Okay. And did you visit with her
15 there at her mother's house?
16 A. Yes, I have.
17 Q. What is her mother's name?
18 A. Darlie Kee.
19 Q. Her name is Darlie, also?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. It's Darlie Kee?
22 A. Yes, we call her Mama Darlie.
23 Q. Okay. Did Darlie again talk to you
24 about the attack and what had happened to her?
25 A. Yes.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2567

1 Q. Okay. Tell the jury what she told had
2 you happened when you had this conversation at her
3 mother's house.
4 A. Well, I didn't ask her anything. She
5 was just sitting there. She was really nervous. She
6 was, of course, chewing on her fingernails and I went,
7 "Don't do that." And she said, she says, "Basia, Basia",
8 she says, "When I opened -- when I felt pressure on
9 my --"
10 Q. Go ahead. Just take your time.
11 A. You should -- she says, "Basia, when I
12 felt pressure on my legs, and I opened my eyes, the man
13 apparently was sitting on top of her, and he was doing
14 this with the knife on her face."
15 Q. Rubbing the knife on her face?
16 A. Yes, something like -- she showed me
17 something like this.
18 Q. What did she say?
19 A. And she said, "Basia, he looked like
20 he enjoyed himself, Basia." And I said, "Darlie, Darlie,
21 please remember the face. Please remember that enjoyable
22 face." She told me she couldn't.
23 Q. So she said the man looked like he was
24 enjoying himself? You asked her to remember his face?
25 A. "Remember that enjoyable face, please,
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2568

1 Darlie, remember that face."
2 Q. Did she tell you what he looked like?
3 A. He had short hair. He had short hair.
4 And he was tall, and he was kind of chubby around the
5 sides and he was white.
6 Q. Was she able to describe his face at
7 all?
8 A. No. She said she was in shock and
9 that the doctor is going to put her under, under hypnosis
10 to help her remember.
11 Q. Okay.
12 A. But right now she was too weak and she
13 lost a lot of blood.
14 Q. Now, let me turn your attention to
15 that Friday, June 14th, 1996. Did Darlie ask you to go
16 somewhere on that day?
17 A. She asked me to go to the cemetery.
18 Q. What was that day?
19 A. It was Devon's birthday.
20 Q. Devon's birthday?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. And did she ask you to come to the
23 cemetery?
24 A. Yes, she have.
25 Q. Okay. Why did she want you to come to
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2569

1 the cemetery?
2
3 MR. JOHN HAGLER: Your Honor, may I
4 approach the bench?
5 THE COURT: Yes, you may.
6
7 (Whereupon, a short

8 Discussion was held
9 Off the record, outside
10 of the hearing of the jury,
11 after which time, the
12 Proceedings were resumed
13 As follows:)
14
15 THE COURT: You may continue, Mr.
16 Shook.
17
18 BY MR. TOBY L. SHOOK:
19 Q. That was Devon's birthday?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. And what did she ask you to do?
22 A. She asked me to come to the cemetery.
23 Q. And what was the reason for coming to
24 the cemetery?
25 A. Because they were going to celebrate
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2570

1 Devon's birthday.
2 Q. Did you want to go to the cemetery?
3 A. I wanted to go alone. I told Darlie
4 that I was going to go alone afterward, and tell him
5 happy birthday in heaven.
6 Q. Okay. Did you agree with Darlie's
7 request?
8 A. Yes, I have.

9 Q. And why did you agree to her request?
10 A. I agreed that I am going to go with
11 them at 6:30 to the cemetery. I meet them at the
12 cemetery at 6:30.
13 Q. Did you take anyone with you when you
14 went there?
15 A. I took my mother and David.

16 Q. Okay. And was Darlie there?
17 A. I believe we were the first ones to
18 arrive, and Darlie shortly after. I don't remember
19 exactly. We all slowly were coming in.
20 Q. Okay. And, did a news team also

21 arrive, shortly thereafter, and film the events that
22 happened there?
23 A. Yes, sir.
24 Q. And were you present when those events
25 were filmed?
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2571

1 A. Yes.
2 Q. And did they talk to Darlie and Darin
3 Routier?
4 A. Yes, they have.
5 Q. And were you present when those
6 interviews took place?
7 A. Yes, I was.
8 Q. Okay. Let me -- well, you have

9 reviewed that film. You reviewed it this morning a
10 couple of times, haven't you?

11 A. Yes, I have.
12 Q. Okay. And did the film that you saw,
13 which is marked here as State's Exhibit 101, did that
14 accurately reflect the interviews that you witnessed?
15 A. Yes, it does.
16 Q. Okay.
17 MR. TOBY SHOOK: Your Honor, at this
18 time we will offer State's Exhibit 101 for all purposes.
19 THE COURT: All right. State's
20 Exhibit 101 will be admitted.
21
22 (Whereupon, the item

23 Heretofore mentioned
24 Was received in evidence
25 As State's Exhibit No. 101

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2572

1 For all purposes,
2 After which time, the
3 Proceedings were resumed
4 As follows:)
5
6 MR. TOBY L. SHOOK: And we will ask
7 the Court's permission to play the tape at this time.
8 THE COURT: You may play it.
9 THE COURT: Can all members of the
10 jury see this screen?
11 THE JURY: Yes.
12 THE COURT: All right. Thank you.
13 MR. TOBY L. SHOOK: Can everyone see
14 the screen? Can you see the screen, Basia?
15 THE COURT: Are you able to see the
16 screen?
17 THE WITNESS: Yes, I can.
18 THE COURT: All right.
19
20 (Whereupon, the videotape
21 was played in the Courtroom

22 for the jury, after which.
23 time the proceedings were
24 resumed as follows:)
25

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2573

1 THE COURT: All right. Back on the
2 record.
3 Ladies and gentlemen, let's take a 10
4 minute break now, please. Thank you.
5
6 (Whereupon, a short

7 Recess was taken,
8 After which time,

9 The proceedings were
10 Resumed on the record,
11 In the presence and

12 Hearing of the defendant
13 And the jury, as follows:)
14

15 THE COURT: All right, are both sides
16 ready to bring the jury in and proceed?
17 MR. TOBY L. SHOOK: Yes, sir, the
18 State is ready.
19 MR. RICHARD MOSTY: Yes, your Honor,
20 we are ready.
21 THE COURT: All right. Let's bring
22 the jury in, please.
23
24 (Whereupon, the jury

25 Was returned to the
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2574

1 Courtroom, and the
2 Proceedings were
3 Resumed on the record,
4 In open court, in the
5 Presence and hearing

6 Of the defendant,
7 As follows:)
8
9 THE COURT: Let the record reflect
10 that all parties in the trial are present and the jury is
11 seated.
12 THE COURT: Mr. Shook.
13 MR. TOBY L. SHOOK: Thank you, Judge.
14
15
16 DIRECT EXAMINATION (Resumed)
17
18 BY MR. TOBY L. SHOOK:
19 Q. The film we just watched, were you
20 just off camera during the interview there?
21 A. Yes, I was standing just not too far
22 by them, away from the camera, but I was watching, yes.
23 Q. Towards the end of that film, do you
24 recall when Darlie Routier then walked off camera after
25 making a statement?
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2575

1 A. Yes, she did.
2 Q. Where did she go to?
3 A. She went to my arms.
4 Q. Did you hug her?
5 A. Yes, I have.

6 Q. Okay. Was she crying?
7 A. No. No, she was not.

8 Q. You talked earlier about seeing a car
9 when you left that Wednesday evening?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. Okay. After the murders, did you go
12 to the police station, and talk with them on June the

13 8th?
14 A. Yes, I have.
15 Q. Did you take your mother with you?
16 A. Yes, I have.
17 Q. Did you tell them what you had seen on
18 that Wednesday?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. Okay. Did your mother also talk to
21 the police?
22 A. Yes. Well, I translate some.
23 Q. Okay. She talked some, you translated
24 some?
25 A. Yes.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2576

1 Q. About the dark car she had seen?
2 A. Black car, yes.
3 Q. Okay. After Darlie Routier was
4 arrested, did you continue to work at Testnec?
5 A. Yes, I have.
6 Q. Okay. And did you continue to speak
7 to her?
8 A. Well, she will call for Darin at work
9 and when he wasn't there, we end up talking.
10 Q. Okay. At some point in time, I think
11 it was maybe in August or so, did some investigators with
12 our office, well, did they actually speak to your mother?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. And then speak to you?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. Okay. Did you agree to speak to them?
17 A. Pardon me?
18 Q. Did you agree to speak to them?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. Okay. Did you tell Darin that you had
21 had a conversation with them?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. Okay. Did you tell Darlie?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. And did you agree to speak to the
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2577

1 investigators again?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. And you've met with them several
4 times, have you not?
5 A. Yes, I have.
6 Q. Investigator Bosillo and Investigator
7 Anita Kinne?
8 A. Yes, sir.
9 Q. You've also spoken to me on a number
10 of occasions, have you not?
11 A. A couple times, I believe.
12 Q. There in your house in Garland?
13 A. Pardon me?
14 Q. We've had conversations there at your
15 house in Garland?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. And since you have arrived here, we
18 have had conversations?

19 A. Yes.
20 Q. We have gone over what questions I was
21 going to ask you?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. Did you talk to Darlie about speaking
24 with the D. A.'s office?
25 A. Yes.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2578

1 Q. And, did you talk to her about being
2 subpoenaed as a witness?

3 A. Yes.
4 Q. What was her reaction? What did she
5 tell you?
6 A. She told me not to talk to you.
7 Q. What did you tell her?
8 A. I told her that I already had.
9 Q. Okay.
10 A. She told me not to speak to you
11 anymore.
12 Q. And what did you tell her?
13 A. That I have nothing to hide and I am
14 willing to talk to both sides.
15 Q. Were you close to the boys, Devon and
16 Damon?
17 A. Yes, I was.
18 Q. Were they often over at your house?
19 A. In the past couple of years, I just --
20 yes, at first, yes, I spent a lot of times with the boys.
21 But the past couple years, I just saw them mostly at
22 work.
23 Q. At work?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. Okay. Let me show you what have been
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2579

1 marked as State's Exhibit 9-A and 9-B. Is 9-B, is that a
2 photograph of Devon?
3 A. That is Devon Routier, yes.
4 Q. And is 9-A a photograph of Damon?
5 A. That is Damon, yes.
6 Q. Okay. Tell the jury what type of boys
7 they were.
8 A. Well, they were happy, normal, rowdy
9 sometimes, children. Damon was very smart and Damon was
10 also kind of a little bit on the moody side, and stubborn
11 kind of. And it took a lot before we got closer, and
12 even sometimes then, if he didn't want to talk to you, he
13 would just ignore you. Devon was very smart and loved to
14 play video games. Just like normal boys, happy, playing,
15 rowdy sometimes, picking at each other.
16 Q. That Wednesday, when you went to pick
17 your mother up, did you see the boys?
18 A. They were playing outside on Tuesday,
19 and, I believe, on Wednesday, they were outside somewhere
20 and then they were gone.
21 Q. Okay.
22 A. I remember, maybe it was Tuesday. I
23 know for sure I saw them on Tuesday. I saw Damon, I
24 believe, on Wednesday.
25 Q. Is that the last time?
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2580

1 A. Outside, as we were walking out.
2 Q. As you were leaving?
3 A. I'm sorry?
4 Q. As you were leaving, do you think you
5 saw him playing outside?
6 A. Yes, because it was a bunch of
7 children, but we just left quickly.
8 Q. Okay. Ma'am, I need to show you one
9 more photograph that has been admitted for record
10 purposes. It's been marked as State's Exhibit B. I'll
11 ask you, if you recognize this photo to be Damon
12 Christian Routier?
13 A. Yes, sir.
14
15 THE COURT: What was that number, Mr.
16 Shook?
17 MR. TOBY L. SHOOK: State's Exhibit
18 No. B.
19 THE COURT: Thank you.
20 MR. TOBY L. SHOOK: Judge, that's all
21 of the questions I have of this witness.

22 THE COURT: Mr. Mosty.
23 MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY: Yes, sir.
24 THE COURT: Thank you.
25
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2581

1 CROSS EXAMINATION
2
3 BY MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY:
4 Q. Miss Jovell, my name is Richard Mosty.
5 We have never met, have we?
6 A. No, sir, we haven't.
7 Q. In these conversations that you have
8 had with the State's attorneys, have you given a written
9 statement?
10 A. No, sir.
11 Q. You didn't sit down and write out?
12 A. No, sir.
13 Q. Did -- as you talked to Mr. Bosillo,
14 the investigator, did he take notes?
15 A. Yes, I have.
16 Q. What about Rowlett Police Department,
17 when you talked to them, did they take notes?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. How many times did you talk to them?
20 A. To the police department?
21 Q. Yes.
22 A. Just once.
23 Q. Just once with your mother?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. And then you talked to Mr. Bosillo,
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2582

1 how many times?
2 A. It was -- I don't remember exactly how
3 many times. It was a few times, well, let's say maybe
4 five.
5 Q. Five times?
6 A. I'm not sure, maybe about five times.
7 Q. Okay. Are those five times alone with
8 Mr. Bosillo?
9 A. No, there was always Anita Kinne
10 present or another -- there was one time there was --
11
12 THE COURT: Can you hear all this?
13 A JUROR: No.
14 THE COURT: Okay. You're going to
15 have to speak louder than that.
16 THE WITNESS: I'm sorry. There was,
17 another man, he was only there maybe a couple of times.
18 I forget his name, he was a black man, older man. But I
19 don't remember his name.
20
21 BY MR. RICHARD MOSTY:
22 Q. Do you see Mr. Bosillo here in the
23 courtroom?
24 A. Yes, that's him right there.
25 Q. Do you see Anita Kinne here in the
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2583

1 Courtroom?
2 A. Yes, that is her over there.
3 Q. And you understand that they are both
4 investigators with the district attorney's office?
5 A. Yes, I do.
6 Q. Then how many times, did you say about
7 five times that you had met with them?
8 A. Yeah, as much as I can remember,
9 possibly about five times, maybe six.
10 Q. That is one or both of the
11 investigators?
12 A. There's always both.
13 Q. Always both?
14 A. Always.
15 Q. Now, then separate from that, how many
16 times have you met with the district attorney's office?
17 A. Pardon?
18 Q. With district attorney, for instance,
19 with Mr. Shook here?
20 A. I only met with Toby, and Mr. Bosillo
21 and maybe -- I maybe saw Toby -- I forgot your last name,
22 I'm so sorry.
23
24 MR. TOBY L. SHOOK: That's all right.
25 THE COURT: Please raise your voice,
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2584

1 ma'am.
2 THE WITNESS: I forgot your last name.
3 MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY: It's not a very
4 remarkable name.
5
6 BY MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY:
7 Q. Okay.
8 A. Maybe three times.
9 Q. You met with Toby maybe three times?
10 A. Together with Mr. Bosillo.
11 Q. Sometimes Mr. Bosillo was there?
12 A. Yes, and sometimes he was not there
13 and Anita Kinne was there.
14 Q. I'm a little confused. Are you saying
15 that all totaled, that you've had six meetings with
16 various people, or is that nine meetings you are now
17 telling me about?
18 A. Well, I only saw, I'll just say Toby,
19 because he came to talk to my mother.
20 Q. Well, how many times --
21 A. And --
22 Q. Just let me -- how many times do you
23 think you've talked to -- before you came to Kerrville,
24 representatives --
25 A. Oh, I'm sorry.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2585

1 Q. -- from the district attorney's
2 office? Either the district attorney, assistant district
3 attorney or investigators. How many times do you think
4 you talked to them?
5 A. Well, counting here?
6 Q. No, before you came to Kerrville.
7 A. Oh, before I came to Kerrville.
8 Q. Okay.
9 A. Altogether, maybe it was six times. I
10 don't really remember.
11 Q. Since you have been in Kerrville, how
12 many times?
13 A. We have talked a couple of times, I
14 believe. I mean going over the questions. Couple times.
15 Q. And when would you say that you had
16 become close friends of the Routiers, about what time?
17 A. In '87.
18 Q. '87?
19 A. Um-hum. (Witness nodding head
20 affirmatively).
21 Q. And went to work, actually for Darin,
22 in when?
23 A. Around '92 somewhere.
24 Q. But you had been co-workers with Darin
25 before that time?
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2586

1 A. Yes, at Cuplex.
2 Q. And, I guess you were around when the
3 two boys were born?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. Did you go to the hospital and see
6 them?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. And where did the Routiers live at
9 that time?
10 A. They lived on Vaughan Street.
11 Q. Is that close to where you live?
12 A. No, I live in Garland.
13 Q. How far is that?
14 A. Not that far. Maybe 20 minutes, 15
15 minutes.
16 Q. Okay. And then, do you recall when
17 they moved?
18 A. Yes. They were building -- well, I
19 believe that they sold -- they sold their house, and the
20 house was being built so they stayed with me.
21 Q. And where did you live?
22 A. I lived in an apartment, yes.
23 Q. And this would be Darlie and Darin?
24 A. And the children, yes.
25 Q. And the two boys?
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter

2587

1 A. Yes.
2 Q. How long did they live with you?
3 A. Oh, not too long. Maybe a couple,
4 three months.
5 Q. Couple or three months?
6 A. Um-hum. (Witness nodding head
7 affirmatively.)
8 Q. Would that be in 1993?
9 A. Around at the time, they were building
10 a house.
11 Q. How old were the boys then?
12 A. They were young. I don't quite
13 remember exactly.
14 Q. Okay. And were all three of you
15 working at Testnec by that time?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. And Darin went out sort of on his own
18 to start this fledgling company, I guess?
19 A. Yes, he still continue to work, work a
20 little bit at Cuplex when he opened up his business and
21 then eventually he quit. He was still going over there
22 to have them use the machines to drill the fixtures.
23 Q. And you left -- you went to the
24 Testnec after Cuplex?
25 A. No, sir. I worked for ATG
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2588

1 Electronics.
2 Q. Why did you leave Cuplex?
3 A. I was laid off, sir.
4 Q. You were laid off?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. And why did you leave, was it ATG
7 Electronics?
8 A. Yes. It was American Testing Group.
9 It was run by Germans, from Germany.
10 Q. Okay. And why did you leave there?
11 A. The Germans pulled out.
12 Q. Okay.
13 A. So I got laid off.
14 Q. Okay. And then your next job was
15 Testnec?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. When did you go to work for Testnec?
18 A. Around '92.
19 Q. Okay. Now, once the Routiers moved
20 into the new house in '93, how far was that from your
21 house?
22 A. The way I drive, maybe 25 minutes.
23 Q. And in that '93 time frame, you saw
24 them on a regular basis at work?
25 A. Yes.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2589

1 Q. And socially, in conjunction with
2 work?
3 A. And socially, yes.
4 Q. Pardon?
5 A. And socially and work.
6 Q. How often?
7 A. We got together quite a few times. I
8 mean we were together a lot of times, yes.
9 Q. Well --
10 A. A lot of times.
11 Q. Well, can you give me some -- you

12 know, once a month, or, you know, four or five times a
13 year?
14 A. Oh, no. We saw each other at work
15 every day. But going to the house, you mean?
16 Q. I'm talking about social times where
17 you would go to dinner together, or dinner at their house
18 or go to a party together?
19 A. Yeah, once a week sometimes, every two
20 weeks, you know. I don't exactly remember.
21 Q. Okay. Now, I'm in the '93 time frame,
22 when they first moved in that house?
23 A. Not at first, I was not going to the
24 house.
25 Q. Why was that?
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2590

1 A. I was busy at work and I don't know
2 why.
3 Q. Well, I guess Darlie was getting more
4 and more busy as the kids got a little older?
5 A. Yes, she was busy. She was doing her
6 thing. She was going shopping, you know. And I worked
7 and I had my daughter, you know, to raise.
8 So, I mean, we had remained friends
9 and stuff, and she had her friends and I had my friends.
10 And we kept the contact at all times.
11 Q. But it's fair to say from '93 on that
12 both you and Darlie got a little bit more wrapped up in
13 your own lives and had less contact with each other?
14 A. Not really.
15 Q. That's not true?
16 A. Well, you know, we, what I say, you
17 know, we still kept in touch, we still talk about the

18 problems. She comes over to work all the time, but I'm
19 just not going over there visiting all the time.
20 Q. Of course, that wasn't my question.
21 A. I'm sorry.
22 Q. My question was: From '93 on, as you
23 got more wrapped up in your life with your daughter and
24 your work and she got more wrapped up in her kids as they
25 were getting on, getting a little bit older, from '93 on,
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2591

1 you all had less and less social contact, didn't you?
2 A. Kind of, off and on, yes, I would say
3 that.
4 Q. And that is, I mean, that is natural,
5 isn't it?
6 A. Well, yes, of course.
7 Q. How old was your daughter in '93?
8 A. She was around 15 or 16.
9 Q. That is a pretty busy age, I know for
10 a fact.
11 A. Very.
12 Q. And you spend a lot of your time
13 driving 15 year old daughters to movies, to shopping, to
14 school, to ballet, to --
15 A. My daughter only would -- she was only
16 interested in a choir for a while at school when she was
17 around that age, she didn't really want to join anything
18 else.
19 Q. And she lived -- your daughter and you
20 lived alone, the two of you?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. And as you would see Darlie, you would
23 see her coming down to the -- to the office, wouldn't
24 you?
25 A. Yes.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2592

1 Q. And she would bring the kids?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. And, the kids were well cared for,
4 weren't they?
5 A. Yes, they were.
6 Q. They were well dressed?
7 A. Yes, they were.
8 Q. You went in their house, didn't you?
9 On Eagle?
10 A. Oh, yes, yes.
11 Q. The kids?
12 A. Happy.
13 Q. Happy?
14 A. Playing, yes.
15 Q. And, lots of kids over there?
16 A. Sometimes, yes.
17 Q. As a matter of fact, that is some of
18 what Darlie was -- you know, I got three of my own and
19 two boys are bringing in more?
20 A. She didn't mind. Many times she
21 didn't really mind having those children. Darlie loves
22 children.
23 Q. She loved to have them over, didn't
24 she?
25 A. Yes.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2593

1 Q. As a matter of fact, she encouraged
2 her boys to bring their friends over?
3 A. Yes, she had many times, yes.

4 Q. And she would play with them?
5 A. She would play with them, no. They
6 play on their own.
7 Q. She wouldn't participate with them,
8 sometimes as mothers do?
9 A. No, she -- the kids wanted to have
10 their friends. They just went all the time either
11 upstairs to play or outside to play.
12 Q. Well, I understand that, too. But,
13 then they need, all of those kids needs Cokes and
14 sandwiches and all that stuff?
15 A. Oh, yes, she tended to that. If they
16 come in to have a drink, yes, Darlie give them drinks or
17 Popsicles, yes.
18 Q. That's her kids and the neighbor kids?
19 A. Exactly, yes. She was kind to all of
20 the children.
21 Q. Okay. Incidentally, you were often
22 over at the house on Eagle; is that right?
23 A. Well, off and on.
24 Q. Did you have a Kee to it?
25 A. Yes, I have for a long time, yes.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2594

1 Q. Okay. So you actually had a Kee to
2 the house?
3 A. Yes. When they -- mostly, I had the
4 Kee because when they were going on trips, I went and
5 checked on the house.
6 Q. Okay. And then I guess, you, at least
7 kept up to some extent with how the boys were doing as
8 they got older? You described them both as smart kids.
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. And Damon maybe a little more
11 reserved?
12 A. Oh, yeah, he is a little bit more
13 stubborn. If he doesn't want to do something, he won't.
14 And you can't really change his mind. He would be, you
15 know, ignoring you.
16 Q. And you were aware of what they were
17 doing, in terms of going to school?
18 A. Yes, I many times picked them up from
19 day care at that time, but not from school. But at that
20 time, I was picking them up from day care.
21 Q. And, what grade had Devon completed?
22 A. First grade.
23 Q. And, did it appear to you that he had
24 done well in school?
25 A. Oh, I'll bet he did.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2595

1 Q. You bet he did?
2 A. Oh, yes, he was smart.
3 Q. Very well-adjusted child?
4 A. Oh, yes, very polite. If he's away
5 from mama, he -- you know how children are -- is a lot
6 nicer to somebody else sometimes than around their mom.

7 Q. But he acted nice even when he wasn't
8 around his mom?
9 A. Oh, yes. Sometimes, he get along -- a
10 little bit.
11 Q. But he was a little boy, wasn't he?
12 A. Yes, a normal little boy, yes.
13 Q. And these boys appeared happy, didn't
14 they?
15 A. Yes, they were happy, yes.
16 Q. And they were active?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. Played, ran and --
19 A. All the time, Ninja turtles. Any time
20 something new came out, especially the Ninja turtles.
21 Lately it was the blue Rangers, and green Rangers, they
22 wanted to be the Rangers.
23 Q. And Darlie went and bought them that
24 stuff, didn't she?
25 A. Oh, yes, she did. She always bought
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2596

1 them things, yes.
2 Q. Whatever the current rage was, and I
3 can't even remember what those are anymore.
4 A. Yeah, neither do I. But there's
5 always toys, they always had lots of toys. Darlie always
6 made sure that they are clothed and fed and had plenty to
7 play with.
8 Q. She actually was sort of generous to a
9 fault with the children, wasn't she?
10 A. Yes, she was.
11 Q. Okay. Matter of fact, you thought she
12 was really too generous about a lot of things, didn't
13 you?
14 A. She was a very kind person. She is a
15 very kind person.
16 Q. And she donated her time to school
17 events?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. Volunteer work?
20 A. Yes, I believe that she was going,
21 when they were in day care. I don't know too much about
22 a volunteer, but I know she was doing things for going to
23 day care, they had things, parties for the children and
24 stuff she did, yes.
25 Q. Like room mother?
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2597

1 A. Yes.
2 Q. Or that kind of thing, organizing
3 parties at day care?
4 A. She was supposed to become a room
5 mother, but I believe she pulled out it -- the children
6 out of there.
7 Q. And she did -- she donated to
8 charities, didn't she?
9 A. Yes, she had.
10 Q. Really too much, didn't she, in your
11 judgment?
12 A. Well, I know of some.
13 Q. You thought she was too generous?
14 A. She was generous.
15 Q. She was generous with you?

16 A. Well, like what do you mean?
17 Q. Well, she gave you presents, didn't
18 she?
19 A. We gave each other presents on
20 birthdays or holidays.
21 Q. She let you charge on her credit
22 cards, didn't she?
23 A. I paid her back.
24 Q. I know that, but you didn't have a
25 credit card you could charge on, did you?
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2598

1 A. No.
2 Q. And she let you?
3 A. Yes, she have, oh, yes, she have, yes.
4 Q. She used it and charged to her?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. And so you could pay her back over a
7 period of time?
8 A. Yes, exactly, yes, sir.
9 Q. Now you saw her around those boys
10 often enough, I suppose?

11 A. Yes.
12 Q. And you saw how she disciplined the
13 boys if they got a little bit out of the hand, didn't
14 she?
15 A. Yes, I have.
16 Q. What method did she use?
17 A. Sometimes she would take a time out.

18 Q. Now, let's talk about that. What is a
19 time out?
20 A. A time out is, okay, that is it, she
21 cannot get their attention, so she will make them stop,
22 she will tell them, "Stop now. Listen to me." And she
23 will tell them that they shouldn't do this or that.
24 Q. And she would do that in a gentle but
25 firm way, wouldn't she?
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2599

1 A. Sometimes.
2 Q. And she told them to go, stop what
3 they were doing, and take their time?
4 A. Yes. And, listen to me. You
5 shouldn't do this or that. And if you don't behave, you
6 are going to go upstairs. There will be no playing
7 anymore.
8 Q. And that is how she generally did all
9 of her disciplining of the children, wasn't it?
10 A. Sometimes it was a spanking on the
11 butt.
12 Q. A swat on the bottom?
13 A. Yeah. With her hand, I have never
14 seen Darlie using a belt.

15 Q. Right.
16 A. And sometimes when they were too much
17 and she couldn't get attention, she sometimes would
18 squeeze their cheeks.
19 Q. And get them to where, look at me and
20 listen to me?
21 A. Yes, well, you know, like a kid. And
22 well, I was always sensitive and I always tried to stand
23 up for those boys, "No, no, no, they didn't do anything."
24 So to me, you know, sometimes it was,
25 you know, just a punishment, was like, no, don't do it.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2600

1 Q. Yeah. But you never --
2 A. I never seen her --
3 Q. You thought that all of that
4 discipline was proper, didn't you?
5 A. Yes, it was proper.

6 Q. It was appropriate?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. And it was done in a loving manner?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. And it was done in a caring manner?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. And the kids expressed their love for
13 Darlie openly?
14 A. Mommy, yes, yes.
15 Q. And she expressed her love for the
16 children openly?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. Who is Tammy?
19 A. Tammy is my daughter.
20 Q. Okay. And Darlie bought presents for
21 Tammy?
22 A. Yes, she bought presents for all of
23 her friends.
24 Q. For who?
25 A. For lots of her friends.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2601

1 Q. Darlie did?
2 A. Yes. She was always very giving
3 person.
4 Q. Did you have occasion to meet some of
5 Devon and Damon's friends, or just as they ran through
6 the house?
7 A. Briefly, briefly.
8 Q. Okay. They had a lot of friends?
9 A. Yeah, mostly, I don't remember their
10 little boy's name but it was Mercedes' son that they play
11 with a lot. And there was a few other kids that I seen
12 faces. But I didn't believe -- but mostly when I spend
13 time, I spend it with Devon and Damon, I didn't -- the

14 other children were not really around.
15 Q. You didn't pay much attention?
16 A. No, no. I mean, yes, I have spoken
17 with them a few times, or something, but --
18 Q. Okay. And, by 1995, in the fall,
19 Darlie was pregnant with Drake. Had she been working
20 pretty much full time still?

21 A. Yes, she was still coming to the shop,
22 she was pregnant, and, yes.
23 Q. Okay.
24 A. We see her.
25 Q. And even after Drake was born, did she
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2602

1 continue to work?
2 A. No, sir.
3 Q. Did she continue to do the books from
4 home?
5 A. Tammy was doing -- I don't know too

6 much about the bookkeeping because I never keep up with
7 that. But I know my daughter was doing some paperwork

8 there, and Darlie, ever so often, would come to the shop
9 with the children and the baby and she would do the work
10 there.
11 Q. Okay. And she worked at the shop?
12 A. Um-hum. (Witness nodding head
13 affirmatively).
14 Q. And at some point, did she sort of
15 take her things back home?
16 A. What things?
17 Q. Well, just books and records?
18 A. I don't know, sir.
19 Q. You don't know about that?
20 A. Not really, because, well, I never

21 really cared. I don't know what they were doing in the
22 office. I never did that.
23 Q. And the bookkeeping was not your
24 responsibility?
25 A. No, sir.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2603

1 Q. And you didn't keep up with that?
2 A. No.
3 Q. You didn't receive checks? For

4 instance, when the mail came in with a check or a
5 payment, you didn't receive that?
6 A. No, sir.
7 Q. You didn't make a deposit?
8 A. I made deposits later, sometimes, yes.
9 If they tell me to make them.
10 Q. Who would fill out the deposit?
11 A. Darlie or Darin would. Darlie mostly,
12 or sometimes Tammy.
13 Q. They would hand it to you and you
14 would drop it at the bank?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. Or Tammy would drop it at the bank?
17 A. Mostly, sometimes I would, or Darlie
18 or Darin, it just depends.
19
20 THE COURT: Mr. Mosty, let's go ahead
21 and break now until 10 after 1:00, please, for lunch. Be
22 back then.
23
24 (Whereupon, a short
25 Recess was taken for lunch,
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2604

1 After which time,
2 The proceedings were
3 Resumed on the record,
4 In the presence and
5 Hearing of the defendant
6 And the jury, as follows:)
7
8 THE COURT: Are both sides ready to
9 bring the jury back?
10 MR. TOBY L. SHOOK: Yes, sir, we are
11 ready.
12 MR. CURTIS GLOVER: Yes, sir, we are
13 ready.
14 THE COURT: All right. Bring the jury
15 back.
16
17 (Whereupon, the jury was

18 Returned to the courtroom
19 And the proceedings were
20 Resumed on the record as
21 Follows:)
22

23 THE COURT: All right. Let the record
24 reflect that all the parties in the trial are present and
25 the jury is seated. You may continue, Mr. Mosty.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2605

1
2 CROSS EXAMINATION (Resumed)
3
4 BY MR. RICHARD MOSTY:
5 Q. Mrs. Jovell, we were talking earlier
6 about mostly the relationship that Darlie had with her

7 children, which you have described in some detail for the
8 jury. And was Darin also active with the children?
9 A. More or less. Darlie had to make him
10 spend time with them.
11 Q. Okay.
12 A. She made sure -- she emphasized on him
13 spending more time with the children.
14 Q. She was wanting Darin to spend more
15 time?
16 A. Spend more time with them, yes.
17 Q. Darin was working pretty hard, wasn't
18 he?
19 A. Not really.
20 Q. Not really?
21 A. No.
22 Q. Were you doing most of the work down
23 there?
24 A. Well, he does the drilling. I do most
25 of the testing and troubleshooting, yes.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2606

1 Q. Well, but did -- am I hearing you
2 right, that you sound like maybe you carried more than
3 your share of the load?
4 A. Well, that was my duty. Darin was the
5 owner, so a lot of times he had to be on the phone. That
6 was his hard work. And, you know, Darlie would help me
7 in tests a lot of times.
8 Q. Well, let me take out the hard work

9 part then and say, did Darin spend a lot of hours down
10 there?
11 A. At the shop, yes. He would come in
12 about ten o'clock, or eleven sometimes, and he continue
13 on staying open to customers.
14 Q. He'd stay late then?
15 A. We normally don't stay late, we close
16 up at five o'clock.

17 Q. But Darlie was wanting him to actually
18 spend more time at home apparently and less at the
19 office?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. Okay. And, you were able to observe
22 Darin and Darlie in their relationships?
23 A. Yes, I have.
24 Q. And of course, you have been married,
25 have you not?
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2607

1 A. Yes, I have.
2 Q. And you understand that every marriage
3 has its good days and its bad days?
4 A. Definitely.
5 Q. And that it's unfair to take any one
6 part of a marriage?
7 A. No.
8 Q. To look at it?
9 A. Exactly.
10 Q. And you would describe Darin and
11 Darlie as having a good marriage, wouldn't you?
12 A. Well, in many ways, yes.
13 Q. Okay. And, they spent time with each
14 other, private, just the two of them, a lot of times,
15 didn't they?
16 A. Well, I'm sure they did.
17 Q. Or did their time together mainly
18 revolve around the kids?
19 A. Well, both actually. Sometimes they
20 like to take trips by themselves, and sometimes with the
21 children. So it was --
22 Q. And, Darin and Darlie were faithful to
23 each other?
24 A. Yes, they have.
25 Q. At all times?
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2608

1 A. At all times.
2 Q. And there's no question about that in
3 your mind?
4 A. There is no question.
5 Q. All right. Let's talk then some about
6 the work. I guess, it sounds like during -- you worked
7 for Testnec from '92 to '96?
8 A. Yes, sir.
9 Q. And, a lot of that time, were you the
10 only employee?
11 A. Yes, sir.
12 Q. And, was, I mean, the day-to-day
13 working and testing, and working with the boards and all
14 that kind of stuff, that was really your responsibility?
15 A. Yes, sir.
16 Q. And Darlie's responsibility was, and I
17 understand --
18 A. Office, yes, office. When we were

19 really -- when we had a lot of work, Darlie would come,
20 well, that was before -- lately she hadn't been there,
21 but she would come and help me.
22 Q. Okay. And then Darin is just mainly
23 being the manager of the business?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. But he too would help work on those
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2609

1 boards?
2 A. Well, he would help set up fixtures,
3 sometimes on boards, yes, sometimes he would test them.

4 Q. Now, tell me what you were doing. And
5 I am at a loss to understand what that business was,
6 really.
7 A. Well, do you want me to start from
8 when I come into the shop, I open it up?
9 Q. Well, why don't you try to tell me
10 generally, if I was a customer at Testnec, what would I
11 be buying?
12 A. I test, I test -- customers would send
13 us printed circuit boards.
14 Q. These are circuit boards that are
15 manufactured by some company?
16 A. Yes, some company.
17 Q. For instance?
18 A. They are all different.
19 Q. For instance, what company might send
20 circuit boards down there? Do you remember some of the
21 customers?
22 A. Compuroute, Tri-Circuits, at this
23 moment, I can't remember. Yeah, we have customers, yes.
24 They send completely different, they would be huge
25 circuit boards, or little circuits, there would be tiny
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2610

1 ones, they are different sizes. Different performance of
2 circuit boards.
3 Q. All right. What are those circuit
4 boards made of?
5 A. Fiberglass, the printed -- it starts
6 from the yellow room and so on, they print onto the
7 copper, and then, that is how they lay out the film. I

8 am not familiar too, too much as far as that area goes,
9 but I know a little bit.
10 Q. Is the board part itself made of
11 fiberglass?
12 A. Well, yes. Well, fiberglass, copper,
13 you know, nickel.
14 Q. Okay.
15 A. They have circuits and little pads
16 and, you know, surface mounts, which is more newer type
17 of stuff, getting more advanced.
18 Q. And, when you are working with those,
19 you are actually -- you have that board in front of you
20 and you are actually testing the circuits?
21 A. Sometimes it's 300 of them, sometimes
22 it's five boards only, sometimes we have a thousand of
23 them, and you have to program the board.
24 Q. Do you do anything to the board? Do
25 you work on it? Do you fix it?
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter

2611

1 A. I set up a fixture that Darin will
2 drill, and that fixture will match exactly the board, the
3 pegs, or whatever. The fixture is built, and with the
4 pins in the fixture, then we set it on a tester.
5 Q. What is that fixture made of?
6 A. Plastic.
7 Q. And so, the fixture then allows you to
8 test the individual circuit areas?
9 A. Exactly. Because the circuit boards
10 will look exactly like the fixture, so you have to put
11 the fixture on a tester, program it, get the points, test
12 points and then I go to program.
13 Q. Would Darin be the one who made the
14 fixture?
15 A. He would drill the fixture.

16 Q. And fit it to the boards?
17 A. Yes, yes.
18 Q. And is there a shop area that you
19 worked in?
20 A. Pardon?
21 Q. Is there a shop area, an open area, a
22 shop area where the boards were kept, and where you
23 worked day in and day out?
24 A. Yes. Normally, they will come in

25 through the office and we will bring them to the back.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2612

1 And we have only one big room in the back and everything
2 is in that one room.
3 Q. Is it a room as big as this room?
4 A. Not exactly, smaller.
5 Q. Okay. But that is where the actual
6 boards and the actual testing goes on?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. Is there an office?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. Separate from that?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. More than one office or just one?

13 A. Well, it's two offices, actually.
14 It's one in front and one in back.
15 Q. Okay. And who -- where did Darin
16 office?
17 A. Darin is the one in the back.
18 Q. Okay. And who officed up front?
19 A. Darlie's.
20 Q. Okay. And that is where the financial
21 records were kept?
22 A. Yes, I believe that, yes. That's
23 where the paperwork was done because I seen them do it
24 there.
25 Q. When the mail would come in, who would
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2613

1 collect the mail?
2 A. Before it was Darin and Darlie, but I
3 was doing that recently.
4 Q. Okay. Then, if a bill needs to go out
5 to some company, who prepared that bill?
6 A. When my daughter was working, she
7 would write out bills for whatever Darlie or Darin tell
8 her to pay bills, so she just fill them out and --
9 Q. No. I'm talking about a bill to a

10 customer. Someone who had sent computer boards down?
11 A. Oh, Darin takes care of that, or
12 Darlie takes care of that.
13 Q. An invoice to that customer?
14 A. Darlie would do that.
15 Q. Darlie did that?
16 A. Yes, I didn't do any paperwork,
17 really.
18 Q. Pardon?
19 A. I didn't do any paperwork.

20 Q. You didn't do any of the bookkeeping?
21 A. No, not at all, sir.
22 Q. Do you know how much profit they made
23 on those boards?
24 A. Good profits.

25 Q. Good profits?
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2614

1 A. Yes.
2 Q. Were some more profitable than others?
3 A. Yes. Well, when we do retest, it is
4 less money, because when the customer require a new
5 fixture and a new test, that is where the big bucks come
6 from.
7 Q. All right. But some, I guess
8 different boards or different numbers of circuits?
9 A. Oh, yes, they are all different from
10 different customers.
11 Q. Profitability --
12 A. Different part numbers, different
13 looks, different shapes.
14 Q. And do different customers get charged
15 different rates or do they all get charged the same rate?
16 A. Different rates. Sometimes -- I don't
17 know for sure, but Darin would discuss sometimes what the
18 job will cost.
19 Q. Now, over that period of time, do you
20 remember that there were computers that were purchased
21 for the front?
22 A. Only one computer for Darlie.
23 Q. Do you remember that, that computer
24 was purchased?
25 A. Yes, I remember that. That was a
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2615

1 computer purchased to do the paperwork on. There was
2 typewriting on it, typewriting only.
3 Q. And did it keep invoices and things
4 like that, or records?
5 A. I don't know if it kept invoices, I
6 have no idea.
7 Q. Well, did they buy software to go with
8 that?
9 A. I don't know.
10 Q. You do not know?
11 A. No. I just know I saw the new
12 typewriter and the computer.
13 Q. Remember that a new phone system was
14 needed?
15 A. We don't have a new phone system.
16 Q. You don't remember getting a new phone
17 system?
18 A. We don't have one.
19 Q. Ever?
20 A. We just got -- when we started the
21 shop, that is when the used bought from ATG, I remember,
22 because they went out of business and that is where Darin
23 bought the used phone system.
24 Q. Never bought any new phones?
25 A. No, sir.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2616

1 Q. What about office furniture, buy
2 office furniture?
3 A. Darlie bought a new desk.
4 Q. Buy fax machines?
5 A. Yes, they purchased a fax machine.
6 Q. And all of those things were bought
7 and placed down in the business, weren't they?
8 A. Yes, a few things, yes.
9 Q. And, you seem like a pretty frugal
10 lady, would you say so?
11 A. What does frugal mean?

12 Q. Frugal. That you mind your dollars.
13 A. Yes, I do.
14 Q. Actually you came from a pretty
15 wealthy family in Poland, didn't you?
16 A. Well --
17 Q. By Polish standards?
18 A. Well, we were comfortable.
19 Q. Okay. And --
20 A. We were money-coordinated, we knew how
21 to save money.
22 Q. And that is your background forever,
23 as long as you can remember; isn't that right?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. And you see nothing wrong, for
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2617

1 instance, with buying refurbished or second-hand
2 equipment to get the job done, do you?
3 A. No, I didn't see nothing wrong with
4 that.
5 Q. Matter of fact, that makes good sense,
6 doesn't it?
7 A. Yeah, if it works, why not.
8 Q. Now, you said that -- you were
9 describing the business in September, or I'm sorry, in
10 December and January. December of '95 and January of
11 '96?
12 A. Yes, we were slow.
13 Q. Okay. How much were the billings for
14 December of 1995?
15 A. I have no idea.
16 Q. How much was collected?
17 A. Sir, I don't keep the books, I don't
18 know.
19 Q. How much were the expenses that month?
20 A. I have no idea.
21 Q. And I can go through January and ask
22 you the same questions, can't I? And you'll say, "I have
23 no idea"?
24 A. We were slow and the money really
25 wasn't coming in because Darlie would come into the shop
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2618

1 and check the books.
2 Q. The money that you have no idea how
3 much it was, was not coming in; is that right?
4 A. There was no money, because Darin was
5 talking to me about it, saying that it's upsetting Darlie
6 really bad, because when he gives me my paycheck, he say,
7 "Well, you are the only who's getting paid now, because
8 I'm not. Because we don't have no money."
9 Q. How much were the deposits for
10 January, do you know?
11 A. I didn't keep track. We got some

12 work, don't take me wrong that we didn't have work at
13 all. We were having some work coming, some retests, a
14 few new jobs started coming in slowly, but not enough.
15 Q. And, you are not the kind of person
16 who would sit around on the job, are you?

17 A. When it was slow, and Darlie and Darin
18 would go shopping or something, I would play computer
19 games before and answer the phones, and if something
20 comes in, I will do the job.
21 Q. You wouldn't go home if you didn't
22 have anything to do?
23 A. When Darin said that they didn't have
24 no money, I told him that I could leave early so he
25 didn't have to pay me.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2619

1 Q. But he continued to pay you, didn't
2 he?
3 A. Well, he paid me what I -- the hours
4 that I was there.
5 Q. And that was how much an hour?
6 A. What I ended up making before I quit?
7 Q. In January in 1996?
8 A. I started making $10 an hour.
9 Q. Now, I don't mean to belabor this, but
10 you do not know what the deposits were for January,
11 February, March, April, May and June for 1996, do you?
12
13 MR. TOBY L. SHOOK: Judge, I'll
14 object. It has been asked and answered several times.

15 THE COURT: I'll sustain it. I think
16 she has answered, Mr. Mosty. She said she did not know
17 that.
18 MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY: Well, the only
19 one I asked her to answer about was January.
20 THE WITNESS: Well, I know I made
21 deposits. But, sometimes it was just a thousand dollar
22 deposit. I remember maybe a few, sometimes it was just
23 $700, I don't exactly remember, sir. I don't stay and
24 look at the books.
25
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter

2620

1 BY MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY:
2 Q. Maybe I'm the only one who has not
3 heard you answer this directly. But do you know how much
4 money was deposited in the first six months of 1996?
5 A. I don't keep the books. I don't know.
6 Q. And do you know what the expenses were
7 for the first six months of 1996?
8 A. All I know is that I was told there
9 was no money.
10 Q. That wasn't my question. Do you know
11 what the expenses were for 1996, the first 6 months?
12 A. I don't keep the books. I don't know.
13 Q. Thank you.
14 A. The only thing I know that I am
15 told --
16
17 MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY: Excuse me, your
18 Honor. I think she answered the question.
19 THE COURT: I'll let her go ahead and
20 answer the question. Go ahead and answer it.
21 MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY: Excuse me, your
22 Honor. I'm going to object, it's non-responsive. She
23 answered the question and then she quit.
24 THE COURT: Are you satisfied with the
25 answer?
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2621

1 MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY: The, "I don't
2 know," answer?
3 THE COURT: Yes.
4 MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY: I think that
5 was the complete answer.
6 THE COURT: All right. That is fine.
7 Don't say anything until the next question.
8
9 BY MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY:
10 Q. Were you upset or -- I guess the

11 question maybe is: Did it bother you that Darlie was
12 taking more money out of the business than you were?
13 A. That is her business.
14 Q. That didn't bother you at all?
15 A. The only thing bothered me, that
16 Darin -- I asked Darin, I said, "How much more Darlie

17 needs at the house? I need things here." Because he is
18 charging people for netlist, where he is not performing a
19 netlist test. And that is cheating people.
20 Q. When did that conversation take place?
21 A. When all this happened, that started
22 from the beginning they were doing that. And I have
23 questioned that, and I've told them that we don't do
24 netlist. But they told me that the customer told them to
25 go ahead and do the golden test and just put down on the
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2622

1 paper netlist test.
2 And so, I said, "We don't do netlist
3 test. We never use that in our tester." And so then,
4 apparently he stopped.

5 But then, when he wasn't at work and I
6 had to deal with the customers I found out that we were
7 supposed to do clam shell test, netlist test.
8 And I said, "Sir, we don't do that."
9 And he says, "Well, we have it on paper."
10 And, I said, "Well, I will let you
11 talk to Darin when he comes." So that was never a

12 netlist test performed. So I told him, I said, "You
13 can't cheat the customers like that no more. You are
14 cheating them."

15 Q. Excuse me, Miss Jovell, you said this
16 was from the beginning?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. That's talking about 1992, wasn't it?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. So those things that you are just now
21 describing, that long conversation --
22 A. Until now.

23 Q. Was in 19 --
24 A. Until the time that I quit.
25 Q. That started in 1992, didn't it?
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2623

1 A. Yes, it did.
2 Q. Okay.
3 A. That is the only thing that really
4 bothered me because you will charge for netlist test --
5
6 MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY: Excuse me, your
7 Honor.
8 THE COURT: Ma'am.
9 THE WITNESS: Oh, I'm sorry.
10 THE COURT: That's all right. When
11 Mr. Mosty is through with his question and you have
12 answered it, just wait until the next question.
13 THE WITNESS: I was just trying to say
14 that is the only thing that bothered me.
15 THE COURT: All right. I thank you
16 very much. If you want to say it, say it with the
17 answer.
18 THE WITNESS: Okay.
19 THE COURT: Thank you. Don't stop and
20 then wait. All right. Go ahead.
21 THE WITNESS: Okay.
22
23 BY MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY:
24 Q. Let's talk about -- well, let's talk
25 about June 5th, 4th and 5th. You say you went by the
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2624

1 house that day?
2 A. Yes, sir, I did.
3 Q. Essentially to pick up your mother?
4 A. That was --
5 Q. To take her and pick her up?
6 A. Darlie -- I remember I went there on
7 Wednesday, that was Wednesday, yes, that was Wednesday on
8 June 5th. Yes, it was.
9 Q. You didn't pick -- you didn't take
10 your mother both days?
11 A. No. Darlie took mother home on
12 Tuesday.
13 Q. Who took her over there on Tuesday?
14 A. I took her over there.
15 Q. You took your mother over Tuesday?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. Darlie brought her home?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. You took your mother over Wednesday?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. And you picked her up?
22 A. Yes, I have.
23 Q. Now, Tuesday morning you didn't have
24 any conversations with Darlie?
25 A. No, sir. I waited for Darin outside.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2625

1 Q. Okay. And on the second day, you
2 didn't have any conversations in the morning with anyone?
3 A. No, I haven't. I just dropped my
4 mother off.
5 Q. Okay. And that afternoon you went in
6 and had a conversation, that is when you say you drank a
7 beer?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. And what was Darlie doing while that
10 was going on?
11 A. She was upset and she was pacing back
12 and forth. That -- when I came in, both my mother and
13 Darlie was upset. But when I walk in, I said, "Wow,
14 everything looks so nice."
15 And they say, "Yeah. We did a lot of
16 work. We done all of the laundry."
17 And there was laundry on the counter
18 that Darlie had to bring it upstairs yet. They were
19 clean.
20 Q. Now, and you say she was pacing?
21 A. Yes, she seemed like was walking back
22 and forth, but I don't exactly know what she was doing.
23 She was upset.
24 Q. Where were you?
25 A. I was in the kitchen.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2626

1 Q. Standing?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. What part of the kitchen?
4 A. By the island, you call it.
5 Q. Okay.
6 A. The big thing in the middle of the
7 kitchen.
8 Q. On the opposite side from the sink?
9 A. I was on both sides, really.
10 Q. Okay. And you were moving around?
11 A. A little bit, yes. I kind of tried to
12 follow Darlie. I am looking at her, I said, "What's

13 going on?" I said, both of them are upset but I'm not
14 going to ask.
15 Q. Where was your mother?
16 A. In the kitchen.

17 Q. In the kitchen?
18 A. Ready to go, yes.

19 Q. Where was Darlie doing this pacing?
20 A. Pardon me?
21 Q. Where was she doing this pacing?
22 A. She was going back from the kitchen
23 and to the family room and then she went on the other
24 way.
25 Q. In the what?
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2627

1 A. Well, she paced -- I see her going,
2 she is like carrying, maybe, something.
3 Q. She is like hearing maybe something?
4 A. Pardon me?
5 Q. Did you say she's like hearing
6 something?
7 A. Carrying something.
8 Q. Carrying?
9 A. Yeah, but I don't know what. She is
10 walking from the kitchen into the family room then she
11 went the other direction, kind of hallway through -- and
12 I am staring at the fireplace.
13 Q. And she was carrying things between
14 the rooms?
15 A. Well, she had something in her hand
16 but I didn't pay attention to what it was.
17 Q. You don't recall what it was?
18 A. No, sir.
19 Q. Well, when you pace back and forth in
20 an upset area, do you take things from room to room?
21 A. Well, not necessarily.
22 Q. But she could have been walking just
23 taking something from the kitchen to the family room?

24 A. I don't know. She just walked through
25 there and stuff and my mother was after me, "Come on, I
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2628

1 want to go home".
2 Q. But you don't recall what she had in
3 her hand?
4 A. No, sir.
5 Q. Did she go other places other than
6 from the family room to the kitchen, walk other places?
7 A. I don't know. I am looking at the

8 fireplace and I have my mama upset by me, and I said,
9 "What's going on?" I said, "Is Darlie upset?"

10 Q. Okay. You are standing in the
11 kitchen?
12 A. Yes, sir.
13 Q. Looking at the fireplace?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. And not really paying attention to
16 what Darlie is doing?
17 A. No, I am looking at her and I said,
18 something is going on. She is upset.
19 Q. So you looked at the fireplace?

20 A. And mama is standing by me and is
21 making me nervous saying, "Come on. Come on." And I
22 said, "No. I'm going to relax for a minute and then
23 we're going to go."
24 Q. Okay. But you were standing up?
25 A. Yes, I have.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2629

1 Q. And you were looking at the fireplace?
2 A. Yes, I love to look at fireplaces.
3 Q. Was there a fire in it?
4 A. No, sir.
5 Q. It was June, wasn't it?
6 A. Yes. I just look at the fireplace.

7 Q. You just like looking at it. Okay.
8 And Darlie was carrying things back and forth from the
9 kitchen to the family room?
10 A. She was walking back and forth. I'm

11 not really paying attention no more. I says, Okay. I'm
12 not going ask. But we did say something but I don't
13 quite recall what it was.
14 Q. What about other rooms? Did she go in
15 other rooms?
16 A. I don't know. She disappears for a
17 little bit.
18 Q. Walked in --
19 A. Then she comes back.
20 Q. Did she go upstairs?
21 A. I believe there was something on the
22 stove cooking.
23 Q. Yeah, she was cooking supper, wasn't
24 she?
25 A. Yes, she was.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2630

1 Q. And so while you are saying she is
2 pacing, she is cooking supper, she is taking things to
3 the family room?
4 A. The pot is simmering. Something is
5 simmering in the pot.

6 Q. And doesn't she go over and check it?
7 A. No.
8 Q. She never --
9 A. No. I went over there and said, "Um,
10 smells good."
11 Q. You were checking the supper while
12 Darlie was pacing?
13 A. Nobody is checking it. It is
14 simmering, something is simmering in the pot, and I just
15 looked and said, it looked good.
16 Q. What was for supper?
17 A. Some kind of chicken soup type of

18 stew, type of deal she was making. It smelled really
19 good.
20 Q. And how long did this pacing go on?
21 A. Well, I didn't stick around too long
22 to know. I know she was upset, mama is upset, I said,
23 "Okay, it's time to go".
24 Q. A minute or two?
25 A. Well, she is walking back and forth.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2631

1 She never sits down really and have a conversation or
2 anything.
3 Q. You never sat down?
4 A. No.
5 Q. You stood up and drank your beer and
6 walked around, didn't you?
7 A. A little bit. I kind of looked, you
8 know, where she is going. She is going to the family
9 room and then she went the other way. And mama is at me
10 so I'm like, "Hold on. We're going to leave soon." We
11 left shortly after I finished the beer, we left.
12 Q. And you don't recall anything that you
13 and Darlie said in that time? Or did you say anything?
14 I'm sorry.
15 A. We maybe said something but I really
16 don't remember. I was just like, what's going on? Both
17 women are upset. I didn't know what was going on. Well,
18 I kind of knew that Darlie was upset because I talked to
19 Darin before he went to pick up -- to move the Jaguar.
20 Q. We're not going to go into what Darin
21 said.
22 A. Okay.
23 Q. I'm just wanting you to describe what
24 you saw.
25 A. Okay.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2632

1 Q. Can you give me any estimate of how
2 long you were in the house that day?
3 A. We maybe left about quarter to 6.

4 Q. Okay. Well, what time did you get
5 there?
6 A. About quarter after.
7 Q. So you were there a half an hour, you
8 think?
9 A. Maybe not even that. I really don't
10 know.
11 Q. And during that entire time, Darlie
12 was pacing like this?
13 A. Yes. She looks upsets and she's
14 not -- she's going, then, you know, she left. I don't
15 see her, and mama is at me again.
16 Q. Okay. Now you went out the front
17 door?
18 A. Yes, I have.
19 Q. And when you got outside you saw a
20 black car?
21 A. No, I didn't see a black car.

22 Q. When did you see the black car?
23 A. It passed me by. I was driving.
24 Q. Which way were you heading?

25 A. I was going towards Linda Vista, south
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2633

1 on Linda Vista.
2 Q. Did you see that that car was stopped
3 when you first saw it?
4 A. No, sir.
5 Q. You didn't see it when it was first
6 stopped?
7 A. No, sir, I did not.
8 Q. Your mother told you she saw it
9 stopped, didn't she?
10 A. I don't remember.
11 Q. You don't recall that?
12 A. I just saw that car driving by fast.
13 Q. You don't recall seeing a man get in
14 that car?
15 A. I didn't --
16 Q. You don't recall a Hispanic male?
17 A. No. I didn't see the male.
18 Q. How many people were in the car?
19 A. I didn't see how many people was in
20 the car.
21 Q. You don't know?
22 A. No, I only saw back of the car.
23 Q. You thought that car was suspicious,
24 didn't you?
25 A. No. I told mother to, pardon my
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2634

1 language, "Quit freaking out, mama. There's a lot of
2 black people living in this neighborhood".
3 Q. A lot of what?
4 A. Black people. Because she said, "Who
5 is that black man?" When he passed us.
6 And I said, "What man?"
7 And she said, "That man in the black
8 car."
9 And, so I looked, and I only saw the
10 back of the car. I didn't see no man.
11 Q. And your mother told you that that was
12 the same car that she had seen the day before at the
13 Routiers?
14 A. I believe she -- I believe she saw --
15 she -- we gave a statement to police. I don't really
16 remember how it was, but there was a man in the back
17 alley in a black car.
18 Q. A man in the black alley (sic)?
19 A. In a black car.
20 Q. In the back alley?
21 A. In the back alley when she was in the
22 garage.
23 Q. And that is your mother telling you
24 this?
25 A. Yes.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2635

1 Q. That is the day before while she was
2 working?
3 A. That was on -- I don't really
4 remember, sir.
5 Q. Well, it was the earlier day she was
6 working, whatever day that was?
7 A. Right. But she saw, yes, she did see
8 a black car in a back alley. And she, she -- when he
9 passed us by, really fast, or a black car passed us by,
10 she said she saw the black car in the back alley. When
11 she was in the garage, he was like sitting and like
12 waiting for somebody but he was looking into the garage.
13 Q. Like he was watching the house?
14 That's what your mother told you, wasn't it?

15 A. Something like that, yes.
16 Q. That it was somebody who was
17 suspicious in the back alley looking in the garage?
18 A. Well, what was -- the exact word is.
19 What was he -- I don't recall but something, not
20 suspicious. It was more of, "Who is that black man and
21 what is he doing in this neighborhood?"
22 She thought black people don't have
23 nice neighborhoods.
24 Q. Okay. So she had seen another black,
25 she seen --
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2636

1 A. She seen a black car in the back
2 alley, and a man was sitting there like he was waiting
3 for somebody.
4 Q. And like he was looking in the garage?
5 A. And he was looking in the garage, yes.
6 Q. The Routier garage?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. And that was the day before you and
9 your mother saw, or the day before, two days before you
10 and your mother saw this black car?
11 A. I only saw that one time when he
12 passed us by.
13 Q. That's right. But that is when your
14 mother said, "That is the same car that I saw earlier in
15 the alley"?
16 A. Yes, yes.
17 Q. That is what she told you?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. Now, speaking of that -- and that is
20 what you told the police, isn't it?
21 A. Well, I only told them what I saw, and
22 I tried to help translate mama, what she saw.
23 Q. And she was there with you at this
24 time?
25 A. Yes, she was.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2637

1 Q. And that is what she told the police?
2 A. Yes, she was.
3 Q. Okay. And you also told the police at
4 that same time that you were not aware of any problems
5 between Darin and Darlie, didn't you?
6 A. Well, I lied to the police, sir.
7 Q. That -- your statement is that when
8 you told the police that --
9 A. The police asked --
10 Q. Excuse me. Let me finish my question.
11 A. I'm sorry.
12 Q. Your statement is, that when you told
13 the police that you were not aware of any problems

14 between Darlie and Darin, that you were lying to the
15 police?
16 A. No, the police asked me if I saw any
17 violence in the house and I told them no.
18 Q. And the police officer, if he wrote
19 down that Barbara didn't know of any problems between
20 Darin and Darlie, that is wrong?

21 A. I -- yes, that was wrong. I didn't --
22 I was very -- I was very tired. I had not hardly slept.
23 I didn't want to go to the police station at first. I
24 called them and I told them, the police, that I could see
25 them later, because I just wanted to see Darlie and I
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2638

1 wanted to get to the cemetery.
2 Q. Well, this is on --
3 A. And I just wanted to tell them about
4 that black car, and I didn't want to say to the police
5 that Darlie and Darin had problems.
6 Q. Well, you have already told us that
7 they had a good marriage?
8 A. Yeah, but they had problems, too.

9 Q. Well, have you seen a marriage yet
10 that doesn't have problems?
11 A. Yes, but lately, well -- it's been
12 constant kind of fighting.
13 Q. You had problems in your marriages,
14 haven't you?
15 A. Yes, sir, but I never had that kind of
16 constant fighting.
17 Q. Well, how many divorces have you had?
18 A. Well, I had two, sir.
19 Q. Okay. And Darlie and Darin haven't
20 had one, have they?
21 A. No.
22 Q. Okay. Now, is it your statement that
23 you lied to the police officers on June 8th, when you
24 told them that Darin and Darlie did not have problems?
25 A. Yes, I have. I lied. I was too
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2639

1 emotional to -- I didn't want -- I didn't feel at that
2 time, that it's any of their business about it. I just
3 wanted out of there. I just wanted to tell about that

4 black car, and I didn't want to say that Darlie and Darin
5 had problems.
6 Q. And over the last six or seven months,
7 that is what you said back then, and over the last six or
8 seven months you started telling this other story now?
9 A. What other story?
10 Q. The one you're telling us today.
11 A. I didn't want to go to the police
12 station. Okay? Dana, her sister, volunteered me to go
13 there.
14 Q. And that was because of the black car,
15 wasn't it?
16 A. Right, to tell about that black car.
17 Q. And you were suspicious of that black
18 car, weren't you?
19 A. I was not.
20 Q. You were not?
21 A. I just told them what mother saw and
22 what I saw pass me by.
23 Q. Your mother was suspicious of that
24 black car?
25 A. But when mother --
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2640

1
2 MR. TOBY SHOOK: Judge, I'll object.
3 These questions have all been asked and answered.
4 THE COURT: I'll sustain the
5 objection. Let's move on. Wait for the next question.
6
7 BY MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY:
8 Q. Tell me the day, as best you can, of
9 when you had this conversation with Darlie about what you
10 described as her telling you about getting pills out.
11 When was that?
12 A. Pardon me?
13 Q. When was the conversation you had with
14 Darlie about the pills?
15 A. She came in and she came -- well, she
16 came into the shop, and she said that she is going to go
17 see Dr. Jenson. I don't exactly remember when she went
18 or anything, but she goes back, because she went on those
19 pills once, because she went to a different doctor.
20 Q. You are talking about the diet pills
21 now?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. Excuse me. I'm talking about the
24 conversation that you said when she was going to take
25 some pills.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2641

1 A. Oh, that must have occurred when I was
2 on my vacation.
3 Q. You were on vacation?
4 A. Yes, because when I came back home
5 from vacation, that is when I found this out.
6 Q. When did you have the conversation with
7 Darlie?
8 A. I went to Darlie shortly after I
9 arrived. I was concerned after talking with my daughter
10 and then Darin telling me, I got upset. I don't exactly
11 remember which day, but we were slow at work again. I
12 stayed on my vacation longer because Darin told me not to
13 rush --
14
15 MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY: Excuse me, your
16 Honor. May we approach the bench?
17 THE COURT: You may.
18
19 (Whereupon, a short

20 Discussion was held
21 Off the record, after
22 Which time the

23 Proceedings were resumed
24 As follows:)
25
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2642

1 THE COURT: Ma'am, whenever a question
2 is asked, if you could just answer it as briefly as

3 possible. Just precisely what they ask you. Okay?
4 THE WITNESS: Okay.
5 THE COURT: Thank you. If they want
6 to know anything else, they will ask you. Okay?
7 THE WITNESS: I'm doing something
8 wrong?
9 THE COURT: You are doing nothing

10 wrong. Just answer the question that is asked. Okay?
11 THE WITNESS: Okay. Thank you.
12 THE COURT: You're doing fine. Go
13 ahead.
14
15 BY MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY:
16 Q. Where did your conversation with
17 Darlie take place?
18 A. Sometime after I came back from my
19 vacation.
20 Q. Where, was the question.
21 A. About the pills? At her home.
22 Q. Where in her house?
23 A. In the kitchen.

24 Q. Who was there?
25 A. Only Darlie and I and the children.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2643

1 Damon was upstairs and the baby was on the floor.
2 Q. And what was Darlie doing?
3 A. We were -- at that time, we were
4 standing together by the island and talking.
5 Q. Well, what -- when you got there, what
6 was she doing?
7 A. She was in the kitchen.
8 Q. Doing what?
9 A. I don't remember.
10 Q. Okay. So you went in the kitchen?
11 A. Yeah, I went over there.
12 Q. Okay. Tell me the first thing you
13 said.
14 A. Well --
15 Q. What I want is to know how this
16 conversation developed and how you got around to talking
17 about this. So who initiated it and how did this
18 conversation get going?
19 A. I asked her how she was doing. And
20 she said fine. And I said, okay. And then she turned
21 around to me and she told me, "Have you heard what
22 happened?"
23 Q. Now, wait a minute. I want to make
24 sure that I'm understanding this exactly.
25 A. Okay.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2644

1 Q. You say, "How are you doing?"
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. She says, "Fine." And then she starts
4 telling you about the pills?
5 A. No, sir. She told me, "Did you heard
6 what happened?"
7 And at the time I didn't tell Darlie
8 that I have heard from my daughter and Darin, because she
9 gets upset when -- somebody --
10 Q. And then what did --
11
12 MR. TOBY L. SHOOK: Judge, we will

13 object. She has not finished answering the question.
14 THE COURT: Yes. Finish your answer,
15 ma'am.
16 MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY: Well, excuse
17 me, your Honor, but I thought that's all --
18 THE COURT: Well, she says she gets
19 upset. You were cutting her off in the middle of the

20 sentence.
21 MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY: Well, that gets
22 upset was not near the question I was asking. It was who
23 said what.
24 THE COURT: Thank you. She was giving
25 the answer. Finish your answer, ma'am.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2645

1 THE WITNESS: Darlie told me that I
2 heard what happened and I lied to her telling her that I
3 didn't know what happened. And I said, "What?"
4 She said, "Well, Bashia, I was just
5 going to do it."
6 And I said, "Do what?"
7 And she said that she was going to
8 take her life.
9
10 BY MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY:
11 Q. Is that how she said it?
12 A. I don't exactly -- I can't tell you
13 word for word.
14 Q. Best you can, what words did she --
15 A. But to the best of my knowledge, that
16 she was going to take her life away, and she had already
17 taken pills out of wrappers, she had them upstairs. She
18 was upstairs. She was --
19 Q. Excuse me, Miss Jovell, what I would
20 like for you to try to do, is say it as if she were
21 saying it. Like saying, "I was doing this." That is
22 what I'm asking you. What were the exact words, as best
23 you can tell me, in her own words?

24 A. I will try, but.
25 Q. And let's -- and maybe it's easier if
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2646

1 we go through it about who said something, who said
2 something next. We won't go through the whole thing at
3 once. We will go through it so that we can get it down
4 as it happened. All right?
5 A. All right.
6 Q. Now, she said something about, "I had

7 them out of the wrappers," or something. Tell me how she
8 said that, as best you recall.
9 A. She said that she was upstairs. She
10 was taking -- she had all the pills out of the wrappers
11 or out of the wrappers.
12 Q. All the pills out of the wrappers?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. What kind of wrappers?
15 A. I have no idea.
16 Q. She didn't describe the wrappers to
17 you?
18 A. No, sir.
19 Q. Like she had opened a bag?
20 A. No, only wrappers.
21 Q. She didn't say anything about pill
22 bottles, did she?
23 A. No.
24 Q. She said wrappers?
25 A. Wrappers.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2647

1 Q. Okay. Now, then, what did she say?
2 A. She said that she had all the pills
3 ready and she was writing a note. And that if Darin

4 wouldn't come in, she would have took the pills. But she
5 heard Darin come in, and she put the pills away, she

6 quickly, because he was coming up, threw the wrappers
7 underneath the bed.
8 Q. Did she tell you where she put the
9 pills?
10 A. No.
11 Q. Just put them away?

12 A. She hid them away.
13 Q. Okay. She didn't say whether or not
14 she put them in the wrappers or out of the wrappers?
15 A. No. She just said that she put them
16 away and she shoved the wrappers under the bed. And she
17 hid everything, and when Darin came in, Darin would not
18 have known until the dog started playing with the
19 wrappers and took them from under the bed.

20 Q. When did the dog come in?
21 A. Well, she told me about it. Domain,
22 the dog was playing around with those wrappers underneath
23 the bed and he took them out from under the bed.
24 Q. And this was right after Darin --
25 A. And that is when Darin saw the
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2648

1 wrappers.
2 Q. Okay. Did Darin come in the room
3 actually?
4 A. She said he came in.
5 Q. Okay. So she threw the wrappers under
6 the table (sic)? Darin came in.
7 A. Under the bed.
8 Q. Under the bed. Darin came in and then
9 the dog came in?
10 A. The dog stays upstairs most of the
11 time.
12 Q. But the dog went under the bed and he
13 brought out the wrappers?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. And so Darin caught her right then?
16 A. Darin saw the wrappers and that's when
17 I told Darlie, I said, "Darlie" -- well, go ahead with
18 your question.
19 Q. But all this, it was described to you
20 as all of this happening just right after another in
21 their bedroom?
22 A. That is what I was told.
23 Q. Now, let's talk about this film that
24 we saw?
25 A. Yes.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2649

1 Q. That was on --
2 A. June 14th.
3 Q. June 14th, which was Devon's birthday?
4 A. Devon's birthday, yes.
5 Q. And you say you were invited out
6 there?
7 A. Yes, I was.
8 Q. Do you know whose idea it was to bring
9 that silly string out? Silly -- whatever it's called,
10 out there?
11 A. Yes. Silly string.
12 Q. Silly string out there?
13 A. Yes, that was her sister's idea.
14 Q. That wasn't Darlie's idea, was it?
15 A. She discussed it with Darlie and she
16 said -- and that is what they were going to do.
17 Q. But the sister had brought that out,
18 hadn't she?
19 A. She told me about it, that that is
20 what they were going to plan.
21 Q. And were you there for the -- were you
22 there when the Baptist ministers were there?
23 A. What Baptist ministers?
24 Q. You don't know about that?
25 A. There was no Baptist ministers in that
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2650

1 cemetery.
2 Q. You don't know about the prayer
3 service that had been held right before that?
4 A. Yes, it had been mentioned by Mama
5 Darlie and the family that was going to leave. Yes, I

6 remember that. Yes, that was apparently, something that
7 Mama Darlie and the family that was going to leave, and
8 they went back to the cemetery. But I don't know
9 anything about ministers.
10 Q. You weren't there?
11 A. No.

12 Q. When the Baptist ministers led them in
13 prayer at the grave site?
14 A. No, sir, I was not.
15 Q. Do people in Poland have different
16 customs and different reactions to funerals than in
17 America?
18 A. Yes, sir.
19 Q. Very much so?
20 A. Well, not that much, that was
21 different.
22 Q. Well, I'm talking about just in
23 general. Do Polish people celebrate their customs of
24 funerals different than we do in America?
25 A. Well, we normally will go to the
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2651

1 cemetery for the performance, there will be long prayers.
2 Q. You're Catholic aren't you?
3 A. A Roman Catholic, yes.
4 Q. And do you go, or do you know people
5 who go on birthdays to grave sites and talk to their
6 husband or wife, or whomever their loved one is?
7 A. Yes, yes.
8 Q. That is not uncommon, is it?
9 A. Maybe not. I personally haven't done
10 it. But we normally go really for the -- how do you say
11 in English, when we celebrate all of the dead people?
12 Q. Is that a wake?
13 A. No, no. I don't know how to say in
14 English.
15 Q. That's Irish, I believe.
16 A. No, sir. This is, it's once a year, a
17 big celebration that we go, and we all go to the cemetery
18 and we put out candles all over the graves, and we pray.
19 Q. All Souls Day?
20 A. Yeah, that type of celebration. It's
21 here too, but I forgot the name of it.
22 Q. Different religions do that
23 differently, don't they?
24 A. Well, I don't know about any other
25 religions.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2652

1 Q. Okay. And during that time out there
2 at the cemetery, there were times when you hugged various
3 people, weren't there?
4 A. What cemetery?
5 Q. The film we saw.
6 A. Oh, yeah.
7 Q. The birthday party.
8 A. Yes, yes.
9 Q. You hugged some people?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. You cried some?
12 A. We tried not to cry, well, I tried not
13 to cry.
14 Q. Okay. And you laughed some?
15 A. We smiled some, not really, I didn't
16 really laugh.
17 Q. You didn't joke around?
18 A. I smiled a little bit and I don't,
19 well, I mean, what you saw really.
20 Q. You didn't joke around some, are you
21 sure about that?
22 A. Joke about what?
23 Q. Joke around about anything.
24 A. No, sir.
25 Q. You are certain?
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2653

1 A. If I did, I don't remember joking
2 about anything.
3 Q. Well, there were pictures of Darlie
4 there crying, weren't there?
5 A. I didn't see Darlie cry.
6 Q. You never saw Darlie cry at that whole
7 time at that birthday party?

8 A. I didn't.
9 Q. Did you see her wipe away a tear?
10 A. No.
11 Q. Never did?

12 A. No, sir.
13 Q. Did you see the film?
14 A. That moment on the film, her head was
15 down.
16 Q. She was faking wiping away a tear?
17 A. I didn't see a tear.
18 Q. Did you see her walk around with
19 pictures of her babies in her arms?
20 A. Yes, I have.
21 Q. She had those in her arms a lot,
22 didn't she?
23 A. No, only when the cameraman came.

24 Q. Oh, that is just when the cameraman
25 came is when she picked up those and put them there?
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2654

1 A. Yes, sir.
2 Q. Okay. Do you remember them talking
3 about how thankful they were that Drake was still there?
4 A. Yes, she said that they were thankful.
5
6 MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY: Your Honor,
7 this is, maybe a time when we need to take up a matter.

8 THE COURT: All right. If the jury
9 will step outside, please. Take a 10 minute break now,
10 please.
11 THE COURT: All right.
12
13 (Whereupon, the jury

14 Was excused from the
15 Courtroom, and the

16 Proceedings were held
17 In the presence of the
18 Defendant, with her

19 Attorney, but outside
20 The presence of jury
21 As follows:)
22

23 THE COURT: May the record reflect
24 that all parties of the trial are present and these

25 proceedings are being held outside of the presence of the
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2655

1 jury. Mr. Mosty.
2 MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY: Your Honor,
3 what we're going to go into, and I can either go through
4 the whole thing or I can tell you in general, and then
5 we'll --
6 THE COURT: Well, let's just

7 generalize it first, then we will go through it.
8 MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY: Okay. Mr.
9 Hagler suggested perhaps that I talk too loud and that
10 the jury might hear me, so if the Court can't hear me,
11 let me know. I'll try to talk a little bit lower.

12 THE COURT: That will be fine.
13 MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY: What we are
14 going to propose to go into at this time is, in a
15 nutshell, Miss Jovell's psychiatric history; various
16 commitments, various times that she has been in and out
17 of insane asylums, and, into some of her background, and
18 her experience with depression, and her own relationships
19 at which are all relevant about what she is talking
20 about. That she's counselled Mrs. Routier on
21 psychiatric, psychological matters and so forth, and so
22 we're going to go in to show that.
23 And so, a substantial part of this is
24 in the Baylor medical records, when she was in there.
25 And a lot of the background in there, of what her history
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2656

1 is, and describe what her history is that she described.
2 THE COURT: Perhaps she could
3 summarize it and if you need to ask more questions, you
4 might for the purpose of this hearing.
5 MR. TOBY SHOOK: Well, Judge, what
6 time frame are you talking about?
7 MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY: Well, I'm going
8 to -- we're going to pull it right on up to date, it's

9 going to go from '96 backwards, through, you know, she
10 is -- the first time she was ever committed or
11 hospitalized in an insane asylum was, she was -- or her
12 first bout with depression, she was 16.
13 The first time she was in the
14 hospital, was 22. She was 22 years old. She was in in
15 '89, you know, and we're going to bring up that whole
16 history of that, of her when she is sitting there
17 counselling Mrs. Routier. What her background is and
18 what her history is, is a fundamental part of that.

19 MR. TOBY L. SHOOK: Excuse me. Is '89
20 the last year you have there?
21 MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY: That is the
22 last hospitalization I have got, that I have got.
23 MR. TOBY L. SHOOK: Judge, obviously,
24 we would object then. There is no relevance to that, in
25 1989 about some stay in the hospital. It's completely
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2657

1 irrelevant. It's only being tried to be introduced to
2 dirty this witness up, in irrelevant matters.
3 THE COURT: Overruled. I'll let them
4 do it. Go ahead.
5 MR. TOBY L. SHOOK: Well --
6 THE COURT: But if we could sort of --
7 can we just, could you ask a summation question and get
8 it, for the purpose of this hearing.
9 MR. DOUGLAS MULDER: Kind of tell us
10 about all of the times that you have been in an insane
11 asylum, or something like that?
12 MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY: Well, you know,
13 the medical records, as you might suspect, are replete
14 with things that she said. So I will try to move quickly
15 through it.
16 THE COURT: All right. Thank you.
17 MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY: That is it.
18 THE COURT: Go ahead.
19 MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY: You want me to
20 go through all this now?
21 THE COURT: Well, can I see them real
22 quickly?
23 MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY: Sure, these are
24 the Baylor records.
25 THE COURT: Okay.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2658

1 MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY: And we will
2 offer the whole record in, too.
3 THE COURT: Okay.
4 MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY: But then I want
5 to talk to her about some specifics.
6 THE COURT: Let's break, and let me
7 review these and then we will look at them.
8 MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY: All right.

9 THE COURT: If you will step down
10 please, ma'am. Thank you.
11 THE COURT: All right.
12
13 (Whereupon, a short
14 recess was taken, after
15 which time, the

16 proceedings were
17 resumed in open court,
18 in the presence and
19 hearing of the

20 Defendant, being
21 represented by her

22 Attorney, but outside of
23 the presence of the jury
24 as follows:)
25

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2659

1 THE COURT: All right. Everyone
2 please have a seat.
3 All right. Let's continue. Let the
4 record reflect that these proceedings are being held
5 outside of the presence of the jury and that all parties
6 of the trial are present.
7 Mr. Mosty, if you will develop what
8 you wish to on the hearing outside of the presence of the
9 jury, please.
10
11 BY MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY:
12 Q. Miss Jovell, and I think you have
13 described this time that you gave Darlie the advice about
14 getting help, that was in May of 1996; is that right?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. And you were counselling with her?
17 A. Pretty much. I told her to please get
18 help.
19 Q. And you were -- your opinion was that
20 she was suffering from depression?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. That was your opinion?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. And you thought she needed to go see a
25 doctor?
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2660

1 A. Yes.
2 Q. Did you give her a name of a doctor?
3 A. No, I haven't, because she told me
4 that they are going to go to Lubbock and do that anyways.
5 Q. Okay. Who were you seeking
6 counselling with at that time, and who were you in
7 counselling with?
8 A. Nobody.
9 Q. Nobody? What about -- did you go to
10 an acupuncturist?
11 A. Oh, yes.
12 Q. Is that for psychological and
13 psychiatric?
14 A. No, sir, that was for my back.
15 Q. For your back?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. What doctors were you seeing at that
18 time?
19 A. I only went to see for my back, that
20 doctor.
21 Q. When was it that -- well, let's go
22 back the other way. When have you after Baylor -- we
23 will go to Baylor in a minute.
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. But after Baylor, what psychologists,
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2661

1 counselors and psychiatrists have you seen?
2 A. I went back to my M.D. and I told him
3 what she have said to me, and I didn't agree with that at
4 the time. And I went back to my M.D.
5 Q. Okay.
6 A. They have been keeping with me.
7 Q. So actually, and I remember that
8 because even before you went into Baylor, you had been
9 with your M.D., your doctor?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. And he had been giving you some pills
12 for depression, had he not?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. And then you went to Baylor and then
15 you went back to that same doctor?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. What is his name?
18 A. Dr. Niamatali.
19 Q. Actually, he is the one who has been
20 continuing to give you --
21
22 THE COURT: Would you inquire as to
23 the first name of the doctor, please?
24 THE WITNESS: Habi Niamatali.
25 THE COURT: Habi?
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2662

1 THE WITNESS: It's an Indian name, I
2 think.
3 THE COURT: Can you spell it for us,
4 please, ma'am?
5 THE WITNESS: I don't know. I'm
6 sorry. He is in Garland.
7 THE COURT: All right.
8
9 BY MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY:
10 Q. All right. And, then, that is the
11 doctor you went to before you went to Baylor?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. And that is the doctor you went to
14 after you went to Baylor?

15 A. Yes.
16 Q. And that is the doctor that you have
17 continued to see?
18 A. No, I quit continue seeing that
19 doctor.
20 Q. When did you quit seeing him?
21 A. Because I didn't need no more help.
22 Q. When did you quit seeing him?
23 A. Shortly after -- no, maybe -- I maybe
24 saw him, I don't really recall, but I went there for, oh,
25 I don't know, really, four more visits to be on the safe
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2663

1 side.
2 Q. Okay. And what medications have you
3 continued to take for depression?
4 A. I don't remember, sir.
5 Q. What are you taking now?
6 A. The name of it, no, sir, I don't.
7 Q. Are you taking anything now?
8 A. No, sir, I don't.
9 Q. Are you taking anything for it now?
10 A. No, sir, I don't. When this whole
11 thing started, I was very emotional, I went to my a

12 acupuncture doctor, and that helps me to relax.
13 Q. Okay. So you were upset and you were
14 emotional and you went to your acupuncturist to --
15 A. When the events took place, when all
16 this happened.
17 Q. So you went to your acupuncturist

18 because you were under stress and you were not feeling
19 well, mentally?
20 A. No, sir, I was grieving for the boys.
21 Q. That is a mental condition, isn't it?
22 A. I don't know what you can call it, but
23 I was --
24 Q. Whatever it is, it's an emotion, it's
25 something in your mind?
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2664

1 A. Well, yes, it's an emotion, it's a
2 very painful emotion.
3 Q. You were treated by your acupuncturist
4 for that?
5 A. Yes, because it helps me to relax,
6 because I couldn't sleep and I cried a lot.
7 Q. That is to get over the emotional --

8 A. To help me to get sleep and not to be
9 so -- well, yes, I was very hurt.
10 Q. What have you done over the years for
11 depression, since Baylor?
12 A. I didn't have to, sir.
13 Q. Not a thing?

14 A. Not a thing.
15 Q. You have not taken any drugs at all?
16 A. Not a pill one.
17 Q. You have not had a depressed state
18 since then?
19 A. No. No, sir.
20 Q. In your counselling with Darlie
21 Routier, did you call on some of your background and your
22 experiences at Baylor?
23 A. Not at Baylor. I tried to tell her
24 that when I had my daughter, I had a post-partum
25 depression when my child was born. I had post-partum
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2665

1 depression and I tried to take my life away.
2 Q. Okay. And, all of that was part of,
3 when you were talking to Darlie, part of what you were
4 trying to do was to relate your life's experiences to

5 her, were you not?
6 A. Because I see the difference, more or
7 less, telling her after what happened to me after I had
8 baby.
9 Q. All right. So you were taking your

10 past, the one where you were hospitalized for post-partum
11 depression, that was not at Baylor, was it? That was at
12 a previous hospitalization?
13 A. Yes, when I had my daughter.
14 Q. So you took these two -- how many
15 times have you been hospitalized?
16 A. Twice.
17 Q. In some kind of psychiatric or
18 psychological hospital? Twice?
19 A. Twice.
20 Q. And you took those life experiences
21 and they were part of why you wanted to discuss getting
22 help with Darlie, weren't they?
23 A. Pretty much so, seeing her behavior.
24 Q. Because you, in your background and in
25 your make up, you had that, and so you wanted to share
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2666

1 that with Darlie?
2 A. Well, she had known that, I have told
3 her that before.
4 Q. But that was part of your
5 recommendation of visiting with her, about getting help
6 and suicide note?
7 A. No, I went there because I wanted to
8 make sure that Darin didn't lie to me about getting help
9 for Darlie.
10 Q. But my question is, that part of what
11 you were counselling her about --
12 A. I didn't counsel her.

13 Q. You didn't counsel her?
14 A. No. I just told her --

15 Q. Let me take that back. Your advice --
16
17 THE COURT: Let her answer the
18 question, please. Go ahead and answer the question.
19 THE WITNESS: It's not counselling. I
20 was very concerned about her, yes.
21
22 BY MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY:
23 Q. I'll take the word counselling back.
24 Your advice to her.
25 A. Yes.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2667

1 Q. Part of your advice was based upon
2 your own previous hospitalizations and your own previous
3 mental problems?
4 A. Pretty much so.
5 Q. And you were recommending that she
6 take the course you took?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. Now, let's talk then about some of

9 your depression when you were admitted to Baylor. You
10 told them at that time that your depression was so bad
11 that you could not function?

12 A. Yes, sir.
13 Q. And that had -- that that was your
14 second time in the hospital?

15 A. Yes, sir.
16 Q. But your first episode with depression
17 was when you were 16?
18 A. I was 16, yes.
19 Q. And when you were 16, you were
20 dysfunctional for a year, weren't you?
21 A. No.
22 Q. Do you remember telling them at Baylor
23 that at the age of 16 you stayed home from school the
24 whole year?
25 A. No, that is when I had my accident,
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2668

1 she must have misunderstood me.
2 Q. Isolating and doing absolutely nothing
3 except sleeping all the time?
4 A. I slept quite a bit, I remember, yes.
5 That was the summertime and I prefer sleeping.
6 Q. So, this statement in the Baylor
7 medical records is wrong?
8 A. Well, I don't know how she put it down
9 on the paper. But I remember being in my 16, through the
10 summertime, I felt depressed. I more or less wanted to
11 stay home and just sleep and don't go nowhere.
12 Q. Okay. Do you agree with this
13 statement, that you told Baylor that your first episode
14 with depression was at the age of 16 when she stayed at
15 home from school the whole year, isolating and doing
16 absolutely nothing except sleeping all the time? Did you
17 tell Baylor that?
18
19 MR. TOBY SHOOK: Judge, could we get
20 to a specific time when this statement was supposed to
21 have been made and to who?
22 THE COURT: That's sustained. I would
23 like that. If you could get the dates and times.
24
25
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2669

1 BY MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY:
2 Q. Your date of admission to Baylor was
3 October 15th of 1989?
4 A. Somewhere -- yes.
5 Q. Okay. But this -- this incident that
6 you're describing was many, many years before?
7 A. No, the same incident.
8 Q. How old were you when you went to
9 Baylor in '89?
10 A. I don't know. 35, maybe.
11 Q. 35?
12 A. Maybe.
13 Q. So when you told Baylor about your
14 depression at age 16, you had been describing something
15 that happened 19 years before?
16 A. Well, I have told her that I could go
17 over with her and go ahead and tell her what happened to
18 me, but I already had that behind me. There was
19 something else that occurred at that time that I want to
20 go into.
21 Q. By that time, you said 19 years ago
22 you had that behind you, but now you are back at Baylor?
23 A. What have happened, well, yes, sir,

24 but there were some different reasons that I went back to
25 Baylor.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2670

1 Q. Well, at 16 it was depression when you
2 stayed home the whole year, was it not?
3 A. I didn't really stay the whole year, I
4 don't know why she put that down.
5 Q. Well, whatever it was, you were 16
6 years old?
7 A. That was summertime, and I felt
8 depressed, yes, and I didn't get out nowhere. I just
9 wanted to stay home and sleep.
10
11 THE COURT: The Court understands what
12 happened there. If we could move on to the next time
13 frame, please.
14
15 BY MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY:
16 Q. At 16, however, you were not
17 hospitalized, were you?
18 A. No, no, sir.
19 Q. And then the first time you were
20 hospitalized, you were 22?
21 A. When I had my daughter.
22 Q. Okay. And that is not the daughter
23 that you have now?
24 A. Yes, I have daughter.
25
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2671

1 MR. TOBY L. SHOOK: Judge, I'll object
2 to him asking for a history. If he is going to go for
3 statements made in the records, we will just ask that the
4 question be limited that way. He is going to ask her
5 from the records.
6 MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY: That's what I'm
7 trying to do.
8 THE COURT: Well, I think that is what
9 he is trying to do. The main thing, we understand that
10 apparently, there has been some treatment for depression.
11 If we could just go through the dates in chronological
12 order, please, for the purposes of this hearing.
13
14 BY MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY:
15 Q. So, then you were hospitalized at age
16 22, what year would that have been?
17 A. 1977.
18 Q. '77. Okay. You were hospitalized at
19 that time for about three weeks; is that right?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. And, do you say, at that time was your
22 complaint that you had had symptoms of depression for the
23 previous nine months?
24
25 MR. TOBY L. SHOOK: Judge, again, I'll
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2672

1 object as to who the statement is made to and when it's
2 made.
3 MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY: All right.
4 I'll clarify that.
5 THE COURT: Okay.
6
7 BY MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY:
8 Q. The series of questions that I am
9 asking about now, are the history that you gave to
10 Baylor, in October of 1989. Correct? Do you understand?
11
12 MR. TOBY L. SHOOK: To who?
13 THE WITNESS: Dr. Lynn Markle.
14 THE COURT: Can you read --
15 MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY: Dr. Rae Lynn
16 Markle, M.D. --
17 THE COURT: Let's get all of that in
18 the record, and move on.
19 MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY: I'm trying.
20 THE COURT: Well, if you could do it.
21 The Court has already reviewed those records briefly. I
22 understand the doctor's name. If we could get the
23 doctor's name in the chronological order, please.
24
25
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2673

1 BY MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY:
2 Q. The conversations that I am talking
3 about, until I tell you differently, are your history
4 that you gave to Dr. Markle in October of 1989. All

5 right?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. Okay. At that time, you told -- we've
8 already been over the 16, and now we're talking about 22,
9 when you were 22 years old and you had been hospitalized.
10 Where was that hospitalization?
11 A. That was in Boston, Massachusetts.
12 Q. Do you remember the name of the
13 hospital?
14 A. No, sir.
15 Q. And, you told Dr. Markle that prior to
16 that hospitalization that you had been depressed for
17 about nine months. Do you remember?
18 A. No, sir.
19 Q. You don't recall that?
20 A. No, sir.
21 Q. Do you remember telling Dr. Markle at
22 that time, that you would take various antidepressants
23 from your M.D. and that once you got to feeling better,
24 you would stop taking them?
25 A. Yeah, I didn't need them no more.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2674

1 Q. Okay. So you would be on them --
2 A. No. I'm sorry. I told Dr. Lynn
3 Markle, I committed myself to Dr. Lynn Markle on
4 voluntarily.
5 I went there by myself because my

6 doctor told me that I better go and see, maybe if they
7 would give me different medication. So I went in on my

8 own, to the hospital, telling them to help me. And, she
9 was supposed to just make sure, that a certain dosage of
10 medication was given to me, and she did.
11 Q. Okay. At this time in May of 1996,
12 when you had that conversation with Darlie and you were
13 talking to her, would you consider Darlie your best
14 friend at that time?
15 A. Yes, sir.
16 Q. Did you make the statement to the Dr.
17 Markle, as follows: "She describes increasing symptoms

18 of depression over the past nine months, stating that her
19 local medical doctor has been giving her medication, and
20 urging her to go to the hospital, as has her best
21 friend."
22 Did you make that statement to Dr.
23 Markle?
24 A. As what?
25 Q. That --
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2675

1 A. Oh, no, no. My best friend, I had a
2 friend named Gail.
3
4 THE COURT: What is the time frame for
5 this?
6 MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY: October --
7 well, this is -- she is describing this October of 1989,
8 to Dr. Markle. She is describing the hospitalization
9 that was earlier.
10 THE COURT: I'm aware of that. Now,
11 can we move on to other hospitalizations subsequent to

12 that, please, so we can get this in context. Are there
13 any subsequent to that?
14 MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY: Any subsequent
15 hospitalizations? I've got the two hospitalizations.

16 Now, I'm go over what she said at Baylor and what her
17 complaints were at Baylor.
18 THE COURT: In 1989?
19 MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY: In 1989.
20 THE COURT: All right.
21
22 BY MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY:
23 Q. Did you tell Dr. Markle at that time
24 in '89 that you had the inability to tolerate crowds or
25 be around people?
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2676

1 A. Yes.
2 Q. And that you would have to frequently
3 leave and become easily agitated?
4 A. Yes, sir.
5 Q. And did you describe that you became
6 violent if people tried to calm you down?
7 A. Yes, sir. Not people, close friends.
8 Q. And you described crying spells all
9 the time?
10 A. I would get angry, yes, very easily
11 and then depressed easily.
12 Q. Now these are things that you are
13 describing that are happening in 1989, correct?
14 A. Yes, sir.
15 Q. And in 1989, you were describing

16 feelings of hopelessness, feels empty, no energy?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. Normal interests hold nothing for her?
19 A. Yes, sir.
20 Q. That you cannot stop eating and had
21 gained 40 pounds?
22 A. Yes, sir.
23 Q. That your personal hygiene was very
24 poor?
25 A. What is a hygiene?
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2677

1 Q. That you didn't take care of yourself,
2 and clean yourself, and brush your hair?
3 A. Well, like I say, I didn't care if I

4 put my hair up or not. But yes, I cleaned myself, sir.
5 Q. And you told Dr. Markle that if it
6 were not for your 12 year old daughter, that you would
7 just not bother to go on?
8 A. Yes, sir.
9 Q. And, you are expressing --
10
11 THE COURT: Mr. Mosty, I understand,
12 we have had a voluntary commitment in 1989. What is
13 relevance of this to now?
14 MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY: The point of
15 this is a Bill of Exception, your Honor.
16 THE COURT: Well, I think the Court
17 understands satisfactorily what happened.
18 MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY: Well, the
19 essential part of it is, that here is a lady who has a
20 history of depression, who is now becoming an

21 advisor/counsellor to quote her best friend.
22 And, you know, it goes to show about
23 these conversation about suicide and these conversations,
24 did they arise in the mind of Miss Jovell? Or did they
25 arise in the mind of Mrs. Routier?
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2678

1 Who initiated them? Who did them?
2 Who said them? Who brought them out? And this is a
3 lady, and I will go on later, who hears voices.
4 And, so, we are trying to develop,
5 where did these things begin?

6 THE WITNESS: I have told Darlie --
7 THE COURT: Quiet, ma'am.

8 THE WITNESS: I'm sorry.
9 THE COURT: I understand that. I'll
10 let you do it. Be brief and to the point, please.
11
12 BY MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY:
13 Q. When did you quit hearing voices?
14 And, do you hear people calling your name now?
15 A. Pardon me?
16 Q. Do you hear voices still?
17 A. I don't hear voices.
18 Q. Never have?
19 A. No, I don't recall telling her that.
20 Q. Okay. Let me go on. I will try to
21 move along. Did you, at that time -- did you tell Dr.

22 Markle in 1989 that you think you hear -- that she thinks
23 she hears her name called a lot?
24 A. No.
25 Q. And you didn't say that that had been
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2679

1 going on for years?
2 A. No, sir.
3 Q. Do you recall that at that time in
4 1989 that you were, described yourself, and were

5 described as very controlling, very histrionic?
6 A. Controlling?
7 Q. Do you remember that?
8 A. No, sir.
9 Q. Okay. Do you remember describing --
10
11 MR. TOBY L. SHOOK: Judge, if I could
12 get a little bit of clarification. Are these quotes to a
13 doctor or is this a doctor's summary?
14 MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY: It's some of
15 each. Some are observations and some are --
16 MR. TOBY L. SHOOK: Because it sounds
17 like a summary. That's not proper impeachment, Judge.
18 MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY: This is not
19 impeachment. This is a Bill of Exception.
20 THE COURT: Let's continue. And I
21 want you to be brief. I understand that, and I have read
22 that. If you can just be brief and to the point, please.
23
24 BY MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY:
25 Q. Did you describe in 1989 to Dr. Markle
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2680

1 that you felt like you had manic-depression illness?
2 A. That is what my -- Dr. Niamatali told
3 me that I -- that I could have that.
4 Q. Is manic-depression something you get
5 over?
6 A. Pretty much so, if nothing tragic
7 happens through your life, or you can control it pretty
8 nice by doing long walks. That is what helped me, brief,
9 long walks. Swimming a lot.
10 Q. Those are things you are doing right
11 now to control manic-depression?
12 A. Yes, we do walk six miles, well, when
13 I get frustrated, I go for long walk.
14 Q. So even now, when you see signs of
15 depression or manic-depression come along --
16 A. I can control it.
17 Q. You take action to control that
18 depression?
19 A. But I don't get depressed.
20 Q. Then why are you taking long walks?
21 A. I get frustrated sometimes, you work
22 hard.
23
24 THE COURT: Thank you. Next question.
25
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2681

1 BY MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY:
2 Q. Did Dr. Markle go over a discharge
3 summary with you?
4 A. Pardon me?
5 Q. Did Dr. Markle go over a discharge
6 summary with you, talk to you about your discharge from
7 Baylor in November of 1986?
8 A. I don't remember.
9 Q. Okay.
10 A. She put me on medication. She told me
11 to go.
12 Q. Do you remember telling Dr. Markle
13 that you described hallucinatory experiences, hearing her
14 (sic) name called a lot?
15 A. I don't remember saying that.
16 Q. Do you recall describing pains in your
17 head, sharp pains in your head?
18 A. Yes, I had that but that is because I
19 was beat up. I still have them sometimes.
20 Q. Still got that now?
21 A. Sometimes I get a sharp pain in my
22 temples.
23 Q. Do you remember your psychological
24 testing showed you to be infantile, histrionic, lacking
25 in inner core of perceptions of self and others, and
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2682

1 strong feelings of help -- hopelessness and helplessness?
2 A. At that time yes, I was kind of --
3 yes, I was feeling -- I went for help.
4 Q. Do you remember describing your mother
5 as a psychic?
6 A. Psychic?
7 Q. A psychic.
8 A. No.
9 Q. Were you also hospitalized in 1979 for
10 a suicide attempt?
11 A. No.
12 Q. Where you O.D.'d on Tylenol and
13 Anacin, Massachusetts hospital?
14 A. That was that time after I had my
15 daughter.
16 Q. And you actually tried suicide?
17 A. Well, I believe I did.
18 Q. With pills?
19 A. Yes, sir.
20 Q. And that was part of the reason that
21 you wanted to give Darlie Routier advice and counselling,
22 wasn't it? Is that right?
23 A. Pardon me?
24 Q. That was one of the reasons you wanted
25 to give Darlie Routier advice because you had attempted
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2683

1 suicide after you had had a child?
2 A. That is what frightened me, her trying
3 to commit suicide and the way she was acting, she was
4 depressed and she was angry. She would come to the shop
5 really angry, throwing things at Darin.
6 I just wanted to help -- Darlie wasn't
7 herself.
8 Q. Okay. And your background from when
9 you were attempting suicide was part of what you were
10 trying to relate to her?
11 A. I see, I see -- yes.
12 Q. Do you remember admitting to blocking
13 out things in your memory?
14 A. No, sir.
15 Q. Do you remember describing your mother
16 as physically and verbally abusive to you?
17 A. No.
18 Q. And that --
19 A. I told her that an American way
20 though, that American people would think that there is
21 abuse, but we got good, hard spankings with belts.
22 Q. I'm talking about what you described
23 to Baylor.
24 A. No. That is the way she put it in the
25 paper. American way, that probably would be abuse
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2684

1 because here when you take a belt to a child, or you hit
2 a child, it's abuse called. So I said, "In America, you
3 would consider that abuse."
4 Q. My question is simply this: Did you
5 described to the registered nurse on December 16th, 1989,
6 that you remembered your mother as physically and
7 verbally abusive?
8 A. Yeah, she'll call names, but she'll
9 use a belt. I mean she wasn't abusive like --
10 Q. What I'm asking you is: Did you tell
11 these things to Baylor?
12 A. No, I didn't tell exactly that, no,
13 sir.
14 Q. You did not say those words?
15 A. My mother is not -- wasn't abusive.
16 She, well, if American people look at abusive, in Poland
17 that was a good, hard spanking with a belt.
18 Q. Do you remember telling that same
19 nurse that you were afraid of your father?
20 A. My father? No, sir.
21 Q. And describing, actually on two
22 occasions, describing your mother as both physically and
23 verbally abusive? On two separate occasions, in the same
24 interview.
25 A. That is the way they put down on the
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2685

1 paper, but that is not what I told them.
2 Q. All right. Do you remember describing
3 that you had occasional feelings of needle pricks on both
4 sides of your head?
5 A. My temples.
6 Q. On the temples; three or four times a
7 day?
8 A. That is because I was beat up.
9 Q. And that those were going on for --
10 that that had been going on for years?
11 A. No, sir.
12 Q. You did not tell Baylor that?
13 A. No, sir.
14
15 THE COURT: Anything else?
16
17 BY MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY:
18 Q. Miss Jovell, do you remember being
19 interviewed by Carol Cloud?
20 A. Yes, I have.
21 Q. Within the last couple of weeks?
22 A. Yes, I have.
23 Q. Okay. You have hired a lawyer to
24 represent you in this case, haven't you?
25 A. Yes, I have.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2686

1 Q. And, that interview was conducted by
2 Carol Cloud, who works for Mr. Mulder. You understand
3 that, don't you?
4 A. Yes, sir.

5 Q. And, but, you had your lawyer present,
6 didn't you?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. Do you remember describing to Mrs.
9 Cloud in that interview, several times, that the
10 statement, "I am afraid I'm losing my mind"?
11 A. Pardon me?
12 Q. Did you make that statement during

13 that interview, not once, but several times, that you
14 were afraid you were losing your mind, in those words?
15 A. No. I don't believe it.
16 Q. Well, of course, you were there?

17 A. Yes, and my lawyer was there, too.
18 Q. Did you say that? Did you say that to
19 Carol Cloud?
20 A. No, sir.
21 Q. Did you tell Mrs. Cloud at that time
22 that you did not believe that Darlie Routier was capable
23 of these murders?
24 A. I didn't say that.
25 Q. You did not say that either?
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2687

1 A. I said I have questions.
2 Q. Did you discuss these mental problems
3 with the district attorney's office?
4 A. Yes, I have.
5 Q. And when was that?

6 A. From the beginning.
7 Q. From the beginning?
8 A. Yes.

9 Q. I guess you thought that was a matter
10 of on-going concern to you?
11 A. Well, I didn't want to be here. And I
12 told them that -- well, actually, it was started that

13 Darin called my daughter telling her that I am some
14 f---ed up lady, type of deal. That he is reading my
15 records right now.
16 And my daughter called me crying
17 saying, "Mom, Darin said that."

18 And so I contacted the D.A.'s office,
19 and I did tell them about it. That I committed myself
20 because I needed help. I had a hysterectomy, I --
21 shortly after, I was attacked and beat up really bad.
22 And, that is -- should I continue?

23 Q. Did I ask you what medications you are
24 presently on, or have been on in the last few months?
25 A. None.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2688

1 Q. None?
2 A. Natural herbs. I'm sorry. I do not
3 take medication, but I do take natural herbs since this
4 happened. I have been having a hard time sleeping. I
5 cry a lot and it's just -- for a type of stress.

6 Q. What natural herbs are those that you
7 are taking?
8 A. I don't have my purse with me. Dr.
9 Bunzo. It's all natural herbs. He only deals with
10 natural herbs and needles.
11 Q. Natural herbs and needles?
12 A. Well, he puts needles in your body.
13 Q. That is a different doctor than the
14 one you told me about a minute ago?
15 A. That's the Dr. Bunzo, the
16 acupuncturist doctor.
17 Q. So he gives you herbs and needles?
18 A. He only started doing this since this
19 happened. Sometimes I don't need them and sometimes I
20 do. Well, they really don't do anything, just kind of
21 relax you a little bit.
22 Q. Have you told people that you can fly
23 out of your body?
24 A. I used to dream a lot that I was
25 flying, yes.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter

2689

1 Q. Okay. Well, that is more recent?
2 A. No, sir. That was when I was 16, when
3 I slept a lot.
4 Q. Oh, you have not been telling -- you

5 have not told people more recently, within the last year
6 that you can fly out of your body?
7 A. No, sir.
8 Q. Or sometimes think you can?
9 A. I was dreaming that, that I was
10 flying, when I was 16. Yes, I remember that. I kind of
11 enjoyed it too.
12
13 MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY: In terms of an
14 offer of proof, your Honor, I think that's what it is.

15 And I would tell the Court this: That because this is an
16 offer of proof, I wouldn't cover a lot of this stuff but
17 I needed to do it for purposes of the record, to make
18 sure that my offer is complete.
19 THE COURT: I understand.
20 MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY: And as part of
21 that, we would also offer to back up the statements or
22 the statements in the history and the comments that I was
23 pointing out.
24 THE COURT: The Court will accept that
25 entire document.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2690

1
2 (Whereupon, the following
3 mentioned item was
4 marked for
5 identification only

6 after which time the
7 proceedings were
8 resumed on the record
9 in open court, as
10 follows:)
11
12 MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY: The entire
13 amount of the Baylor records which will be Defendant's 14 No. 45.

15 THE COURT: For the purposes of this
16 hearing, and Bill of Exception, is there any objection? 17
18 (Whereupon, the above

19 mentioned item was
20 received in evidence
21 as Defense Exhibit

22 Number 45, for record
23 Purposes only, after
24 which time, the

25 proceedings were
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2691

1 resumed on the record,
2 in open court,
3 as follows:)
4
5 MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY: And then I
6 think Mr. Hagler would like to be heard on the offer.
7 MR. TOBY L. SHOOK: Judge, we will

8 object to the Baylor records for any reason, on any part
9 of the hearing, because they have not been properly
10 authenticated.
11 THE COURT: Well, I think he is just
12 putting it on his Bill of Exception. Is that not so?

13 MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY: That part is
14 just to verify that for the record purposes. That that
15 is the document that I was referring to in her -- in
16 those questions.
17 Of course, we will, at the appropriate
18 time, we will call the custodian from Baylor down here to
19 back up those records.
20 THE COURT: All right. That exhibit
21 is admitted for record purposes only.
22 Yes, sir.
23 MR. JOHN HAGLER: Okay. Your Honor,
24 the State has offered into evidence, during the direct
25 testimony of this witness, testimony about this so-called
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2692

1 attempted suicide.
2 The purpose of this offer, and again,
3 we would offer it, and submit to the Court that all of
4 the testimony that presently has been offered is
5 admissible for the jury.
6 And specifically, your Honor, this

7 witness has testified that she has had numerous prior
8 psychiatric problems and has been committed on two
9 occasions. She's been treated, she's certainly versed
10 and knowledgeable on the area of depression, and other
11 forms of psychiatric disorders.
12 She has also testified before the
13 Court that she has advised and counselled with the

14 defendant regarding these certain difficulties and her
15 prior experiences.
16 Now, it is our -- the purpose of our
17 offer, your Honor, of this testimony, that this would
18 tend to show, the state of mind of the defendant, you
19 know, her actions and reactions to this advice and
20 counsel made by the -- made by this witness.
21 Short-handed, your Honor, what we're
22 saying is that the State has attempted to create the
23 impression in front of the jury, that this matter about
24 the so-called suicide, arose out -- was completely,

25 entirely independent of this witness, and solely came
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2693

1 from the mind of the defendant.
2 This testimony is certainly probative
3 and relevant to showing what the true source of this
4 so-called suicide, what have you.
5 Furthermore, the prior experiences of
6 this witness, parallel and almost virtually mirror what
7 the State's contention is, that the defendant, on her
8 own, her own independent impulse did, as far as the
9 suicide attempt.
10 Furthermore, admittedly some of these

11 things occurred within a number of years ago, your Honor.
12 But there is no remoteness rule as to the admissibility
13 of this type of evidence.
14 The fact of the matter is, that it
15 exists. She has independent recollection of these
16 events. And regardless of the fact that some of them may
17 have occurred anywhere from seven to eight years ago, the
18 fact is that she related these incidences to the
19 defendant.
20 And we would submit, created and
21 caused a state of mind of the defendant as to her actions
22 and reactions.
23 And as far as the remoteness thing, I
24 might also mention that as recently as this year, or I
25 should say within the last 12 months, she has received
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2694

1 acupuncture treatments due to her emotional problems, and
2 certainly this would also be admissible before the jury
3 to show -- to allow the jury to determine the true source
4 and actions of the defendant.
5 MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY: Your Honor, may
6 I add one other thing?
7 THE COURT: You may.
8 MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY: Particularly
9 related to the relevance aspect of it, and at the risk of
10 getting called an amateur psychiatrist, this is what is
11 known as projection.
12 THE COURT: Okay.
13 MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY: And that is,

14 she, in her mind, and we will go back to, how I -- whose
15 mind did this originate in.
16 She, in her mind, attempted suicide
17 after having had a baby. Actually, attempted it, didn't

18 think about. Actually attempted it, and was hospitalized
19 for it, and that life's experience projects into another,
20 and she sees it in another that doesn't exist.
21 So, she sees depression in Darlie
22 Routier, that is her projection of her life experiences,
23 not those life experiences that she is actually
24 observing.
25 THE COURT: Anything else? All right.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2695

1 Well, the Court holds that the testimony elicited by Mr.
2 Mosty is not relevant to the witness's character for
3 truthfulness or untruthfulness, regarding her testimony
4 in this case, and will not be permitted before the jury.
5 And you have made your Bill of Exception and it will be
6 noted and it will be put in the record.

7 MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY: Your Honor, let
8 me make it clear, we're not offering that for purposes of
9 demonstrating her truthfulness or untruthfulness. We're
10 offering it to demonstrate her life experiences and how
11 they relate to her testimony to impeach her version that
12 these thoughts -- that what she described as a depressed
13 person, she was really describing herself. That is why
14 we are offering it, not for truthfulness or
15 untruthfulness.
16 THE COURT: Overruled for that reason,
17 too. Thank you.
18 MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY: And, may I also
19 be afforded the opportunity to put a real psychiatrist,
20 other than myself, in to describe that projection at the
21 appropriate time?
22 THE COURT: Mr. Mosty, you have leave
23 to call any witness you want to call.
24 MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY: All right.
25 Thank you. As part of this Bill of Exception?
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2696

1 THE COURT: Yes, sir. A real
2 psychiatrist, you know, we're happy to hear it.

3 MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY: On this Bill,
4 we are still open on that subject?
5 THE COURT: We're still open.
6 MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY: Thank you.

7 MR. JOHN HAGLER: One final thing,
8 your Honor, your ruling applies also to all the reasons
9 that I stated the --
10 THE COURT: Oh, yes, by all means.
11 All right.
12 In as much as the jury took a break, I
13 think we will take a quick 10 minute break, and then we
14 will continue on, as we say in Texas, with this witness.
15
16 (Whereupon, a short
17 recess was taken, after
18 which time, the

19 proceedings were
20 resumed in open court,
21 in the presence and
22 hearing of the

23 Defendant, being
24 represented by his
25 Attorney, and in

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2697

1 the presence of the jury
2 as follows:)
3
4 THE COURT: All right. Let's bring
5 the jury back.
6 MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY: Yes, sir.

7 THE COURT: Are both sides ready?
8 MR. TOBY L. SHOOK: Yes, sir. We are
9 ready to resume.
10 THE COURT: All right. Bring the jury
11 in, Mrs. Biggerstaff.
12
13 (Whereupon, the jury

14 was returned to the
15 courtroom, and the
16 proceedings were

17 resumed on the record,
18 in open court, in the
19 presence and hearing
20 of the defendant,
21 as follows:)
22
23 THE COURT: Let the record reflect

24 that all parties to the trial are present and the jury is
25 seated. Mr. Mosty?
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2698

1 MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY: I have no
2 further questions, your Honor.
3 THE COURT: You may step down, ma'am.
4 Thank you for coming. Watch your step, please. Your
5 next witness.
6
7
8 (Whereupon, the following
9 mentioned item was
10 marked for
11 identification only

12 after which time the
13 proceedings were
14 resumed on the record
15 in open court, as
16 follows:)
17
18 MR. GREG DAVIS: Your Honor, at this
19 time, the State will offer State's Exhibit No. 50 for all
20 purposes, and the documents that have been marked as
21 State's Exhibit 50-A, for record purposes only.
22 THE COURT: All right. Thank you.
23 MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY: A?
24 MR. GREG DAVIS: And, if I may briefly
25 publish it?
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2699

1 THE COURT: Gentlemen, just one
2 minute. All right. Those are State's Exhibits 50 and
3 50-A?
4 MR. GREG DAVIS: Yes, sir.
5 THE COURT: Both State's Exhibits are
6 admitted.
7
8 (Whereupon, the above

9 mentioned items were
10 received in evidence
11 as State's Exhibit

12 Nos. 50 for all purposes.
13 and 50-A, for the.
14 record purposes only,

15 after which time, the
16 proceedings were
17 resumed on the record,
18 in open court,

19 as follows:)
20
21 MR. GREG DAVIS: Ladies and gentlemen,
22 State's Exhibit 50 contains certain documents from the
23 Bank One. In those documents, I would refer you to the
24 first document, which will be a loan document, originated
25 August 3rd of 1993.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2700

1 The maturity date was to be August
2 17th of 1996, for $10,000. And it will show that the
3 monthly payment on that loan was $343.62.

4 The next document will be a loan on a
5 boat. This one originated in May, May 17th of 1995,

6 principal amount $24,145, with a monthly payment of
7 $343.17.
8 The next document will be a loan, this
9 is on November 3rd, 1995, the amount of the loan is
10 $8,990. The monthly payment on this loan was $145.91.
11 Following that, you will see certain
12 records relating to the personal bank account of the
13 defendant and her husband. And I would state to you that
14 these are basically monthly statement summaries.
15 And the last statement date is from
16 May 15th to June 14th of 1996, and you will see in the
17 record, that for that time period, that the final ending
18 balance was $68.09.
19 Judge, that concludes the publishing
20 of this.
21
22 THE COURT: All right. Your next
23 witness.
24 MR. GREG DAVIS: My next witness will
25 be Kathryn Long.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2701

1 THE COURT: Kathryn Long.
2 MR. GREG DAVIS: This witness has not
3 been sworn, your Honor.
4
5 (Whereupon, the witness

6 was duly sworn by the
7 Court, to speak the truth,
8 the whole truth and
9 nothing but the truth,
10 after which, the

11 proceedings were
12 resumed as follows:)
13
14 THE COURT: If you will raise your
15 right hand, please, ma'am.
16 Do you solemnly swear or affirm that
17 the testimony you are about to give will be the truth,
18 the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you
19 God?
20 THE WITNESS: Yes, I do.
21 THE COURT: And Miss Long, you have
22 testified before, I assume?
23 THE WITNESS: Yes, sir.
24 THE COURT: Then you understand the
25 Rule of Evidence and what it means?
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2702

1 THE WITNESS: Yes, sir.
2 THE COURT: All right. Thank you.
3 You are under it now.
4 THE WITNESS: Okay.
5 THE COURT: Go ahead, please.
6
7 Whereupon,
8
9 KATHRYN LONG,
10
11 was called as a witness, for the State of Texas, having
12 been first duly sworn by the Court to speak the truth,
13 the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, testified in
14 open court, as follows:
15
16
17 DIRECT EXAMINATION
18
19 BY MR. GREG DAVIS:
20 Q. Would you please tell us your full
21 name.
22 A. My name is Kathryn Long. L-o-n-g.
23 Q. Ms. Long, how are you employed?

24 A. I'm a forensic serologist at the
25 Intsitute of Forensic Science in Dallas.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2703

1 Q. Okay. And what is a forensic
2 serologist?
3 A. Any time there is any kind of a crime
4 scene, or a rape that has happened, the police agency or
5 a doctor will collect evidence from the crime scene and
6 bring it into us. We can then identify any kind of body
7 fluids from the scene, and identify things as being
8 human, and as what kind of fluids they are, if they are
9 seminal fluid or blood.
10 Q. All right. How long have you been
11 employed by the Southwestern Institute of Forensic
12 Sciences?
13 A. Two years and eleven months.
14 Q. Can you give us an idea of your
15 background and training for the position which you now
16 hold?
17 A. I have a Bachelor of Science in
18 Medical Technology from the University of Texas at El
19 Paso. I have worked eight years in clinical

20 laboratories, mostly in supervisory positions.
21 I have been working at the Institute
22 for three years. We have an ongoing continuing education
23 program. I am a member of the American Society of
24 Clinical Pathologists, and also a member of the Southwest
25 Association of Forensic Scientists.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2704

1 Q. Okay. From time to time, do you work
2 on cases with a Charles Linch?
3 A. Yes, sir, I do.
4 Q. And is he a trace evidence analyst
5 there at the Southwestern Institute of Forensic Sciences?
6 A. Yes, sir, he is.
7 Q. And I guess, just so I don't have to
8 say it over and over, do we sometimes refer to that as
9 SWIFS?
10 A. Yes, sir.
11 Q. Okay. I want to direct your attention
12 back to June 6th, 1996, and ask whether or not you and
13 Charles Linch went to 5801 Eagle Drive in Rowlett, Texas?
14 A. Yes, sir, we did.
15 Q. Do you remember about what time of the
16 day that you and Mr. Linch arrived there?
17 A. I have it my notes that we arrived
18 there at 12:27.
19 Q. All right. P.M.?
20 A. Yes, that would be in the afternoon,
21 yes, sir.
22 Q. All right. When you got there were
23 Rowlett police officers present at the residence?
24 A. Yes, sir, they were.
25 Q. I want to ask you, how long were you
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2705

1 there that day?
2 A. Almost three hours. We left a little
3 after 3:00.
4 Q. Okay. And during that time period

5 that you were there, were you checking certain areas,
6 either in or out of the house for evidence of blood?
7 A. Yes, sir, I was.
8 Q. All right. I want to direct your

9 attention to the garage of that residence. And, do you
10 recall whether or not you tested any areas in the garage
11 for possible blood?
12 A. Yes, sir, I did.
13 Q. What areas of the garage did you test?
14 A. There was an obvious stain that was in
15 the garage. It tested negative for the presence of
16 blood. It kind of -- it had a syrupy consistency, maybe
17 a melted Popsicle or Kool Aid.
18 There were also two other stains that
19 I tested and also collected from the garage floor. There
20 was one that was near to the doorway into the laundry

21 room, and also, there was one that was a little farther
22 from the laundry room. But they were both relatively
23 close to the laundry room door.
24 Q. All right. I now have out, in front
25 of the jury, photographs that have previously been
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2706

1 admitted as State's Exhibit 40-A and 40-B. Can you see
2 those?
3 A. Yes, sir.
4 Q. Shows the garage area. Would you mind
5 stepping down please, and point out for the members of
6 the jury, if you can, where you were testing for blood in
7 the garage?
8 A. Okay.
9
10 (Whereupon, the witness

11 Stepped down from the
12 Witness stand, and
13 Approached the jury rail
14 And the proceedings were
15 Resumed as follows:)
16

17 A. There was a stain here that again was
18 syrupy.
19 Q. All right. I'll tell you what, if you
20 will step around here everybody can see. If you will,
21 Miss Long, just point to the area there that you were
22 testing.
23 A. There was this stain here. It was
24 negative for the presence of blood. And there were also
25 some stains that were around here, by the -- there was a
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2707

1 sign on the garage door that said, Popcorn for sale.
2 That is approximately where I lifted the two other
3 stains, the two actual blood stains.
4 Q. Okay. The area that you are referring
5 to as having kind of a syrupy texture to it, was that the
6 larger area here in State's Exhibit 40-B?
7 A. Yes, sir. Right in the center here.
8 Q. Okay. Now, did any areas in the
9 garage test positive for blood?
10 A. Yes, sir. Again, there was some
11 stains actually that were on the sign and there were some
12 stains near the sign. The two that I collected were
13 actually on the cement near the sign.
14 Q. Okay. Again, about what time of the
15 afternoon is it that you test this area of the garage and
16 find a positive result for blood?
17 A. It was shortly after we got there, so
18 it would have been around 12:30.
19 Q. When it tested positive, the blood, in
20 that portion of the garage, did you take samples to be
21 analyzed later on?
22 A. Yes, sir, I did.
23 Q. Was anyone with you when you tested
24 those areas that turned out to be positive for blood?
25 A. Yes, sir. Mr. Linch was with me, and
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2708

1 I believe also Mr. Cron was in the room.
2 Q. James Cron?
3 A. Yes, sir.
4 Q. The area that you have just told us
5 about where you took the samples, were there any other
6 areas in the garage where you found blood?
7 A. Other than the spots on the

8 posterboard, like I said, that had the drinks and popcorn
9 for sale. And the two that I collected from the actual
10 cement floor, I didn't see any other stains.
11 Q. Okay. Now, let me ask you whether or
12 not on that date you had occasion to go to the kitchen
13 sink area?
14 A. Yes, sir.
15 Q. Did you have an opportunity to look at
16 the sink?
17 A. Yes, sir, I did.
18 Q. And can you describe the appearance of
19 the sink when you first looked at it on June 6th?
20 A. At first glance, just looking at the
21 kitchen sink, the front of the sink had a tremendous
22 amount of blood on it. And the actual basins appeared to
23 be clear. But on closer inspection, there was about
24 seven stains that we could visually see, that appeared to
25 be -- they were dried but they appeared to be like washed
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2709

1 out blood, like someone had washed their hands or somehow
2 blood had mixed with water in the sink and had actually
3 dried in little spots in the sink.
4
5 (Whereupon, the following
6 mentioned items were
7 marked for
8 identification only
9 after which time the
10 proceedings were
11 resumed on the record
12 in open court, as
13 follows:)
14
15 BY MR. GREG DAVIS:
16 Q. If you would, look at State's Exhibit
17 109-A and 109-B. Tell me whether or not these
18 photographs truly and accurately depict the sink area as
19 it appeared on June 6th of 1996?
20 A. It seems there was a little more blood
21 on top, I believe that might have been collected, but
22 that is a pretty close representation.
23 Q. Okay.
24
25 MR. GREG DAVIS: Your Honor, at this
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2710

1 time, we'll offer State's Exhibits 109-A and 109-B.
2 MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY: No objection.
3 THE COURT: State's Exhibits 109-A and
4 B are admitted.
5
6 (Whereupon, the items
7 Heretofore mentioned
8 Were received in evidence
9 As State's Exhibit Nos. 109-A
10 and 109-B for all purposes,
11 After which time, the
12 Proceedings were resumed
13 As follows:)
14
15 BY MR. GREG DAVIS:
16 Q. Do we see blood near the kitchen sink
17 here in 109-B?
18 A. Yes, sir. There was also a stain on
19 the bottom of the left-hand handle of the cabinet.
20 Q. Okay. And first of all, let me just
21 ask you, if my pen is now pointing at an obvious area of
22 blood here?
23 A. Yes, that is correct.
24 Q. And did you find any evidence of blood
25 actually running down the cabinets there in front of the
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2711

1 sink?
2 A. Yes, there was.
3 Q. And those are also evident, are they
4 not, in the photographs as kind of red streaks?
5 A. Yes, sir.
6 Q. And, you were also talking about a
7 handle to one of the cabinets; is that right?
8 A. Yes, sir, the left handle to pull out
9 the cabinet. There is a stain on the bottom of the
10 handle.
11 Q. Okay. On the bottom portion?
12 A. Yes, sir, where it would not have been
13 dripped down, it would have been transferred somehow to
14 the bottom of it.
15 Q. How about the right handle?
16 A. No, sir, that was negative. I didn't
17 see any stains on that.
18 Q. Okay. So am I now pointing at the
19 portion, the bottom portion of the left knob where you
20 found evidence of blood?
21 A. Yes, sir.
22 Q. And again, what type of blood stain
23 did this appear to be?
24 A. It was more -- it was not dripped down
25 from above. It was somehow transferred to the bottom of
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2712

1 the handle.
2 Q. The stain that you were looking at
3 there, would it be consistent with an individual with

4 blood on her hand reaching down and pulling that knob in
5 order to open that cabinet door?
6 A. Yes, sir.
7 Q. Okay. Now, you had said that the
8 inside portion of the sink had a washed out appearance;
9 is that correct?
10 A. Yes, sir.
11 Q. All right. Did you ever have an
12 opportunity to open the cabinet doors there underneath
13 the sink to look inside?
14 A. Yes, sir, I did.
15
16
17 (Whereupon, the following
18 mentioned item was
19 marked for
20 identification only

21 after which time the
22 proceedings were
23 resumed on the record
24 in open court, as
25 follows:)
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2713

1
2 BY MR. GREG DAVIS:
3 Q. If you would, please look at State's
4 Exhibit 109-C. Does this photograph truly and accurately
5 depict the items that were underneath the kitchen sink
6 when you viewed it on June 6th, 1996?
7 A. Yes, sir, as best as I can recall it.
8 I just remember there was a lot of cleaning products
9 underneath.
10
11 MR. GREG DAVIS: Your Honor, at this
12 time be will offer 109-C.
13 MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY: No objection.
14 THE COURT: State's Exhibit 109-C is
15 admitted.
16
17 (Whereupon, the above

18 mentioned item was
19 received in evidence
20 as State's Exhibit
21 No. 109-C,

22 for all purposes, after
23 which time, the

24 proceedings were
25 resumed on the record,
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2714

1 in open court,
2 as follows:)
3
4 BY MR. GREG DAVIS:
5 Q. Again, as we look at this photograph,
6 do we see cleaning agents underneath the sink in the
7 cabinet area?
8 A. Yes, sir.
9 Q. When you opened the cabinet door there
10 to look inside underneath the sink, did you see anything
11 else, Miss Long, that caught your attention?
12 A. There was also a slight streak on the
13 inside of the cabinet door, towards the bottom. So it
14 would have been on this edge, the left-hand cabinet door,
15 there was a very small streak, presumptive tests for
16 blood was positive on that.
17 Q. Let me ask you, I'm pointing at an
18 area of the photograph now, 109-C. Do you recognize what
19 I am pointing at?
20 A. Yes, sir.
21 Q. What is that?
22 A. It appears to be a streak of blood,
23 which would have corresponded to when the cabinet was
24 actually shut.
25 Q. All right. The streak of blood that I
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2715

1 am pointing at, was that visible with the cabinet door
2 closed?
3 A. No, sir, it was not.
4 Q. This is something that you saw only
5 after you opened up the cabinet door; is that right?
6 A. Yes, sir.
7 Q. Okay. Now, when you looked in the
8 sink itself, could you see any visible blood inside?

9 A. Yes, I could.
10 Q. Okay. And describe the blood that you
11 could actually see.
12 A. Again, there were several stains.
13 Most of them were -- the ones that I saw were on the
14 left-hand basin, and they appeared to have a washed out
15 appearance.
16 Q. How about the faucet on the sink, was
17 there any visible blood there?
18 A. No, there was not.
19 Q. Okay. Did you test the sink area for
20 possible blood?
21 A. Yes, sir, and also the handle.
22 Q. All right. Let's talk about the sink
23 itself. First of all, what did you do in order to test
24 for blood?
25 A. We have a presumptive test for blood
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2716

1 that we use in the field and also in our office. It's a
2 simple color change reaction test.
3 What we do is, anytime we see a stain,
4 is we take a sterile damp swab and we swab the area, and
5 then we add chemicals to the swab, and if there is a
6 color change reaction, then it is positive presumptively
7 for blood.
8 Q. Okay. Did you get any positive
9 reactions inside the sink?
10 A. Yes, sir, I did.
11 Q. All right. Now, let's talk about the
12 faucet where you had seen no visible blood. Did you test
13 that also?
14 A. Yes, sir, I did.
15 Q. And what kind of reaction did you get
16 when you tested the faucet?
17 A. The handle was positive.
18 Q. Positive for blood?
19 A. Yes, sir.
20
21 THE COURT: You might speak into the
22 microphone a little bit better, because the last two
23 jurors are having a tough time hearing you.
24 THE WITNESS: All right.
25 THE COURT: Go ahead.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2717

1
2 BY MR. GREG DAVIS:
3 Q. After you had had the positive
4 reactions for blood at the sink, did you then take blood
5 samples from the sink?
6 A. Yes, sir. I selected some of the
7 better stains and collected those.
8 Q. So, as I understand it then, on June
9 6th, did you collect blood samples from the garage floor?
10 A. Yes, sir.
11 Q. And did you also collect blood samples
12 from the kitchen sink and also the faucet of the sink?
13 A. Yes, sir, that's correct.
14 Q. Were there any other blood samples
15 that you collected out there on June 6th, 1996?
16 A. I also collected a sample from the
17 front of the formica in front of the sink.
18 Q. Okay.
19 A. Very strong, obvious stain.
20 Q. Okay. So you had the garage floor,
21 the kitchen sink and then the area of the formica right
22 in front of the sink, right?
23 A. Yes, sir, that's correct.
24 Q. Now, let me take you forward to June
25 11, 1996. And ask you whether or not you went back out
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2718

1 to 5801 Eagle with Charles Linch?
2 A. Yes, sir, I did.
3 Q. And on that date, did you test any
4 areas outside the house for possible blood?
5 A. Yes, sir, I did.
6 Q. What areas did you test?
7 A. I tested the gate, the outside gate, I
8 tested the latch that was on the fence and also the latch
9 portion on the gate.
10 Q. Okay. What were the results?

11 A. They were all negative for the
12 presumptive test of blood.
13 Q. On June 11th, did you collect any
14 blood samples?
15 A. Yes, sir, I did.
16 Q. All right. And can you tell us what
17 blood samples that you obtained out there on June 11th?
18 A. I collected three from the carpet.
19 Q. Would this be in the family room?

20 A. Yes, sir.
21 Q. So you had three from the carpet in
22 the family room?
23 A. Yes, sir.
24 Q. Okay.
25 A. One from a chair, it appears.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2719

1 Q. Is that a chair in the family room
2 again?
3 A. Yes, sir.
4 Q. Okay.
5 A. Some samples from the wall and also
6 the brass plate on the wall leading into the kitchen.

7 Q. Okay. Now this wall, would this have
8 been a wall, a section of the wall close to the switch
9 plate in the kitchen area?

10 A. Yes, sir.
11 Q. And you also got the switch plate
12 itself; is that right?
13 A. Yes, sir, I collected a sample off the
14 switch plate.
15 Q. Okay.
16 A. And then also, took one sample from
17 one couch in the family room, and also three samples from
18 another couch in the family room.
19 Q. All right. Now, the couch where you
20 took the one sample, is that the couch closest to the

21 windows facing the back yard?
22 A. Yes, sir.

23 Q. Okay. The other three, would they be
24 from the couch that is nearest to the kitchen area?
25 A. Yes, sir, that's correct.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2720

1 Q. I have got -- did you take a total of
2 10 blood samples then?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. Did you do anything else out there on
5 June 11th, besides take blood samples and test the gate
6 and latch for possible blood?
7 A. No, sir.
8 Q. Since June 11th, 1996, have you been
9 back out to 5801 Eagle Drive?
10 A. No, I have not.
11 Q. Let me ask you, whether or not since
12 June 6th, 1996, whether or not you have received certain
13 blood and other evidence for analysis?

14 A. Yes, sir, I have.
15 Q. First of all, have you obtained the
16 blood of the defendant in this case, Darlie Routier?

17 A. Yes, sir, we drew blood samples from
18 Darlie Routier.
19 Q. Okay. Do you recognize her as the
20 lady over here with the jacket over her dress?
21 A. Yes, sir, I do.
22
23 MR. GREG DAVIS: Your Honor, at this
24 time we will have the record reflect this witness is
25 referring to the defendant, please.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2721

1 THE COURT: Yes, sir.
2
3 BY MR. GREG DAVIS:
4 Q. Did you actually obtain the blood
5 sample yourself?
6 A. No, I witnessed the blood drawn.
7 Carolyn Van Winkle actually drew the blood. She is our
8 DNA analyst.
9 Q. Okay. Was the blood sample of Darin
10 Routier also obtained?
11 A. Yes, sir.
12 Q. And from the medical examiners, did
13 you obtain blood samples of Damon Christian Routier and
14 Devon Rush Routier?
15 A. Yes, we did.
16 Q. Okay. Now, in your lab there in
17 Dallas, have you analyzed certain pieces of evidence to
18 determine whether or not there is human blood on that
19 item?
20 A. Yes, sir.

21 Q. First, let me refer you to -- this is
22 going to be State's Exhibit 42-A, it's a window. And I
23 believe your records will reflect this as your item
24 number 1, correct?
25 A. Well --
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2722

1 Q. I'm sorry, it's number 47. This would
2 be your item 47.
3 A. Yes, sir.
4 Q. Okay. Did you, in fact, test this
5 window for evidence of human blood?
6 A. Yes, sir, I did.
7 Q. Okay. Can you tell the members of the
8 jury, what sort of test that you did on this window?
9 A. What I did was, I went through,
10 there's several -- there's numerous, tiny little spots on
11 top of the window, and also on the window ledge.
12 What I did was, I went through and I
13 tested all of those spots for the presumptive test, a
14 presumptive test for blood. What we then did, was I
15 collected the spots that were positive.
16 Q. Okay. So let me ask you then: Can we
17 see some of these spots? Are they about the size of a
18 pinhead, is that pretty accurate?
19 A. Yes, sir.
20 Q. Okay. Along the top of the window and
21 also on the ledge of the window, right?
22 A. Yes, sir.
23 Q. Okay. Did they test positive for
24 blood?
25 A. Yes, sir, some of them did.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2723

1 Q. Okay. Now, once you had the test back
2 as positive for blood, did you then attempt to determine
3 whether or not it was human blood or not?
4 A. Yes, sir, I did.
5 Q. Okay. And did you do an additional
6 test to do that?
7 A. Yes, sir, I did.
8 Q. And, was this human blood on the
9 window?
10 A. It came back that it was not human
11 blood.
12 Q. Okay.
13 A. And there was also four stains on the
14 actual window glass.
15 Q. All right.
16 A. I believe those have been circled.
17 Q. Based on your experience, do you have
18 an opinion as to whether or not the blood that you found
19 here on the window, and the window ledge would be
20 consistent with blood dropped by an insect?
21 A. Yes, sir. We have had this experience
22 with cars. When you are driving, and you manage to get
23 bugs on your windshield, we get the same kind of
24 reactions.
25 Q. Okay. Any human blood found on this
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2724

1 window, State's Exhibit 42-A?
2 A. No, sir, there was not.
3 Q. Did you also receive a window screen
4 along with State's Exhibit 42-A?
5 A. Yes, sir, I did.
6 Q. Okay. Did that come to you from the
7 Rowlett Police Department, also?
8 A. Yes, sir.
9 Q. Was it torn at the time that you
10 examined it? Do you remember it being torn?
11 A. Yes, sir, it was.
12 Q. Was it your understanding that that
13 window screen had been on this window at one time?
14 A. Yes, sir.
15 Q. Did you also test that window screen
16 for evidence of blood and human blood?
17 A. Yes, sir. What I did was I took a --
18 I put it under the microscope and looked at the
19 individual where it had been cut or torn. I didn't see
20 any presumptive -- anything that I would consider blood.
21 And then I went back. And I swabbed
22 it and it was, at the tear, it was negative for blood. I
23 then tested the whole screen for the presence of blood.
24 There was one very, very, small spot on one side of the
25 screen that would be very similar in appearance to the
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2725

1 stains that we found on the window.
2 Q. Okay. So, along the cut of the
3 window, did you find any evidence of any sort of blood?
4 A. No, sir.
5 Q. And on the screen itself, did you find
6 evidence of blood, but not human blood?
7 A. On the actual frame of the screen, I
8 had a presumptive test positive for blood. It was such a
9 small stain, there was no further testing that I could
10 do.
11 Q. Okay. Was its size and appearance
12 consistent with what you had seen here on the window?
13 A. Yes, sir.
14 Q. All right. Miss Long, let me show you
15 State's Exhibit 21 and 22. I believe these will be your
16 items, 123 and 124. Do you recognize these two items?
17 A. Yes, sir, I do.
18 Q. Okay. Did you also receive these two
19 items for testing?
20 A. Yes, sir.
21 Q. All right. In your testing, did you
22 find any evidence of blood on either State's Exhibits 21
23 or 22?
24 A. No, sir, I did not.
25 Q. Now, throughout your testing, did you
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2726

1 receive other items that came to you from 5801 Eagle
2 Drive?
3 A. Yes, sir.
4 Q. Okay. Let me direct your attention
5 here to State's Exhibit 93. And I believe this will be
6 your item number 69; is that right?
7 A. Yes, sir, that's correct.

8 Q. Okay. On State's Exhibit No. 93, did
9 you test that for blood?
10 A. Yes, sir, I did.
11 Q. Did it come back positive?
12 A. Yes, sir.
13 Q. And did you take blood samples from
14 State's Exhibit No. 93?
15 A. Yes, sir, I did.
16 Q. Was there also a multi-colored
17 comforter that arrived at your office?
18 A. Yes, sir.
19 Q. And I believe, is that your item
20 number 18?
21 A. Yes, sir.
22 Q. If you will look at State's Exhibit
23 No. 70, does this appear to be the same comforter that
24 you tested at your lab?
25 A. Yes, sir, it does.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter

2727

1 Q. Okay. Did you also obtain a blood
2 sample from State's Exhibit No. 70?
3 A. Yes, sir, I collected three stained
4 portions, and also one unstained portion.
5 Q. Okay. Let me show you what has been
6 marked as State's Exhibit No. 82. I believe this will be
7 your item number 31. Do you recognize that?
8 A. Yes, sir, I do.
9 Q. Okay. Did you obtain a sample from
10 the handprint itself on State's Exhibit No. 82?
11 A. Yes, sir, I cut out this portion right
12 here, I just cut some of the carpet fibers off the top.
13 Q. If you will look at State's Exhibit

14 No. 23?
15 A. Okay.
16 Q. And I believe that would be your item
17 number 25? Is that correct?

18 A. Yes, sir.
19 Q. Okay. Did you also obtain blood
20 samples from State's Exhibit No. 23?
21 A. Yes, sir, I cut five stains from
22 those.
23 Q. Okay. And if you will, please look at
24 State's Exhibit No. 86. I believe this will be your item
25 number 70. This rug, do you recall whether or not you
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2728

1 obtained blood samples from that rug also?
2 A. Yes, sir, I cut six stain marks from
3 the rug.
4 Q. Okay. And Miss Long, let me show you
5 the two items that have been marked as State's Exhibits
6 64 and 65, I believe they are your item number 28, two
7 towels. And ask you whether or not you obtained blood
8 samples from each of those two towels?
9 A. Yes, sir, I did.
10 Q. Okay. Miss Long, if you will look at
11 State's Exhibit No. 66, I believe this will be your item
12 number 30, a white towel, a rag. Did you obtain a blood
13 sample from that item?
14 A. Yes, sir, I did.
15 Q. If you will, please look at State's
16 Exhibit No. 60, a sock, and I believe that will be your
17 item number 27. Did you obtain a blood sample from
18 State's Exhibit No. 60?
19 A. Yes, sir, I cut two stains from this
20 sock.
21 Q. If you will please look at State's

22 Exhibit No. 39, a baseball cap. I believe this will be
23 your item number 68. Did you obtain a blood sample from
24 this item?
25 A. Yes, sir, I cut three stains from
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2729

1 this and also one unstained portion.
2 Q. Okay. And State's Exhibit No. 71-A
3 and 71-B, two Reebok tennis shoes. And I believe these
4 will be your items 103. Do you recall taking blood
5 samples from each of these shoes?
6 A. Yes, sir.
7 Q. And I'll ask you to look at State's

8 Exhibit No. 62. I believe this will be your item number
9 26. Do you recall taking a blood sample from that item
10 also?
11 A. Yes, sir, I do. I actually cut two
12 samples from that blanket.
13 Q. Okay. State's Exhibit No. 61, a green
14 blanket, your item number 21. Do you recall taking a
15 blood sample from this item also?
16 A. Yes, sir.
17 Q. Okay. State's Exhibit No. 67. I
18 believe this will be your item number 2, do you recall
19 taking blood samples from this?
20 A. Yes, sir, I do.
21 Q. Okay. In addition to this, did a
22 white rag also come to you for blood analysis?
23 A. Yes, sir.
24 Q. State's Exhibit No. 66. Let me have
25 you look at that.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2730

1 A. Yes, sir.
2 Q. Do you recognize that?
3 A. Yes, sir.
4 Q. Okay. Did you also take a blood
5 sample from that?
6 A. Yes, sir, from this corner right here.
7
8 MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY: Mr. Davis, I
9 missed the SWIFS number.
10 MR. GREG DAVIS: This is State's
11 Exhibit No. 66.
12 MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY: What is the
13 SWIFS number?
14 MR. GREG DAVIS: The SWIFS number is
15 number 30.
16 THE COURT: All right.
17 MR. DOUGLAS MULDER: That is a white
18 rag.
19 MR. GREG DAVIS: Is that already done?
20 Okay. What I am looking for right now is State's Exhibit
21 No. 63, which is another -- another rag, a plaid rag.
22
23 BY MR. GREG DAVIS:
24 Q. While we're looking for that, Miss
25 Long, let me ask you if some additional items came to you
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2731

1 from the medical examiner's office in the cases of Damon
2 and Devon Routier?
3 A. Yes, sir.
4 Q. Okay. With regards to Damon Routier,
5 did a black T-shirt come to you for analysis there?
6 A. Yes, sir.
7 Q. Did that come from Dr.
8 Townsend-Parchman?
9 A. Yes, sir, it did.
10 Q. Now, with regards to Devon Routier,
11 did you receive from Dr. Joni McClain the following

12 items: A pillow, a pillow case, a gray and black
13 blanket, and some shorts?
14 A. Yes, sir. I did. And also, a
15 transport sheet and the autopsy reports.
16 Q. And, with regard to the items that
17 came to you from Dr. McClain, if you can see State's

18 Exhibit 11-C, do you see a gray and black blanket here in
19 State's Exhibit 11-C?
20 A. Yes, sir.
21 Q. Does that appear to be the same
22 blanket that accompanied the other items regarding Devon
23 Routier from Dr. McClain?
24 A. Yes, sir.
25 Q. Was there also a pillow and a pillow
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2732

1 case?
2 A. Yes, sir, but by the time I got them,
3 I believe they were separated. It was just -- there's a
4 pillow and a pillow case.
5 Q. Okay. Let me ask you to look at the
6 pillow here in State's Exhibit 11-F, the Power Ranger
7 pillow. Does that appear to be the, I guess, it's

8 actually going to be the pillow case portion of the
9 pillow that came from Dr. McClain?

10 A. Yes, sir, it did.
11 Q. And the accompanying pillow, was that
12 along with the pillow case, correct?
13 A. Yes, sir.
14 Q. And you also indicated that Dr.
15 McClain sent over to you certain shorts, were they Power
16 Ranger shorts as seen here in State's Exhibit 11-E?
17 A. Yes, sir, they were.
18 Q. Okay. I think we have found State's
19 Exhibit No. 63, I believe it will be your item number 29.
20 And let me ask you again, whether or not you took any
21 blood samples from State's Exhibit No. 63?
22 A. It's a wash cloth. Yes, sir, I did.
23 Q. Okay. And that is your item number
24 29, right?
25 A. Yes, sir, that's correct.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2733

1 Q. Miss Long, let me show you a T-shirt,
2 that's State's Exhibit No. 25, and I believe your item
3 number 24. Do you recognize this item also?
4 A. Yes, sir, I do.
5 Q. Okay. Did you take certain blood
6 samples from State's Exhibit No. 25?

7 A. Yes, sir, I did.
8
9 (Whereupon, the above
10 mentioned items were
11 marked for
12 identification only
13 as State's Exhibits
14 Nos. 110-A, B and C,
15 after which time the
16 proceedings were
17 resumed on the record
18 in open court, as
19 follows:)
20
21 BY MR. GREG DAVIS:

22 Q. Miss Long, I want to step back for
23 just a moment before we talk about these items. Have you
24 look at the photographs that have been marked as State's
25 Exhibit 110-A, 110-B and 110-C. Do you recognize these
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2734

1 photographs to be true and accurate depictions of the
2 kitchen sink there at Eagle as they appeared on June 6th,
3 1996?
4 A. Yes, sir.
5
6 MR. GREG DAVIS: Your Honor, at this
7 time, we will offer State's Exhibits 110-A, 110-B and
8 110-C.
9 MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY: No objection.
10 THE COURT: State's Exhibits 110-A,
11 110-B and 110-C are admitted.
12
13 (Whereupon, the items
14 Heretofore mentioned
15 Were received in evidence
16 As State's Exhibit Nos. 110-A,
17 110-B, and 110-C, for all purposes,
18 After which time, the
19 Proceedings were resumed
20 As follows:)
21 BY MR. GREG DAVIS:
22 Q. As the jury looks at these, will we
23 see some writing inside the sink?
24 A. Yes, sir.
25 Q. Is that writing that you placed there?
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2735

1 A. Yes, sir.
2 Q. And what is that to indicate?
3 A. Those were the positive -- the spots
4 that I found that were positive for blood.
5 Q. Okay. And when you mark a side, do
6 you label it as a T-1 or a T-2?
7 A. When I am going to collect something,
8 I label it as, I give it a "T" number, that is a test
9 area number. I didn't collect all the stains from the
10 sink. There are some that have just been marked with a
11 plus sign. That's just to indicate to me, and in future
12 photographs, that those areas were positive.
13 Q. Okay. Miss Long, let me show you

14 State's Exhibit No. 122. And, if you will, as we go
15 through this diagram, does this appear to be a floor plan
16 of a part of the house out there at 5801 Eagle Drive?
17 A. Yes, sir, it does.
18 Q. Okay. As we look in the utility
19 portion of this house, at the portion representing the
20 baseball cap, do you see two samples there?
21 A. Yes, sir.
22 Q. Okay. Do they accurately reflect the
23 fact that you took at least two samples from that
24 baseball cap?
25 A. Yes, sir.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2736

1 Q. All right. Do you see the kitchen
2 sink?
3 A. Yes, sir.
4 Q. All right. Do you see some T-numbers
5 here, actually, 9-T-7, 9-T-6, 9-T-4, 9-T-8? Do they

6 reflect samples that you took from the kitchen sink?
7 A. Yes, sir, they do.
8 Q. Okay. Similarly, are there numbers,
9 reflecting accurately, samples that you took from the
10 item 70, the rug sitting in front of the kitchen sink?
11 A. Yes, sir.

12 Q. Okay. And those are all designated as
13 70 and then with a T-number; is that right?
14 A. Yes, sir.
15 Q. Okay. We have a representation of a
16 vacuum cleaner. Are there samples noted as 69 and then
17 with a T-number, and do they accurately reflect samples
18 that you took from the vacuum cleaner?
19 A. Yes, sir, they do.
20 Q. Are there two samples over here on the
21 wall close to the switch plate labeled as 55 and 56? And
22 do they accurately reflect samples that you took from
23 that portion of the wall?
24 A. Yes, sir, they do.
25 Q. Okay. Looking in the family room, the
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2737

1 area as you come in the hall and to the left, do we have
2 a representation of an individual there, Damon Routier?
3 And do we have samples listed, 25-T-3
4 and 25-T-5, as well as 13-T-1, and do they represent
5 samples that you took from his clothing?

6 A. That would be with the child facing --
7 with the face down?
8 Q. Yes.
9 A. Yes, sir, that's correct.
10 Q. Okay. Do we also see the couch that
11 is closest to the kitchen, and do we have three samples,
12 52, 53 and 54? Do they represent samples that you took
13 from the couch?
14 A. Yes, sir, they do.
15 Q. Over by the chair, do we have two
16 samples listed as 50 and 49, and do they represent
17 samples that you took from the carpet near that chair?
18 A. Yes, sir, they do.
19 Q. Moving across here to the child
20 representing Devon Routier, do we have a sample of 3-T-2,
21 that represents accurately a sample that you took from
22 the gray and black blanket?
23 A. Yes, sir.
24 Q. Do we have the shorts as 3-T-6?
25 A. Yes, sir.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2738

1 Q. Two samples that you took from the
2 pillow and the pillow case, the Power Ranger item, are
3 they listed as 3-T-1 and 3-T-4?
4 A. Yes, sir.

5 Q. And these accurately reflect samples
6 that you took from this area; is that right?
7 A. Yes, sir.
8 Q. Do we have a sample 57, close to the
9 coffee table on the carpet, does that accurately reflect
10 the sample that you took in that part of the house, too?
11 A. Yes, sir.

12 Q. Moving over here to the green blanket,
13 do we have a sample 21-T-1 that represents the sample
14 that you took from that area?

15 A. Yes, sir.
16 Q. Do we have a blue blanket with the
17 sample of 26-T-2, and does that accurately reflect a
18 sample that you took from that item?
19 A. Yes, sir.

20 Q. Do we have another item, 31-T-3, that
21 represents the sample that you took from the bloody palm
22 print?
23 A. Yes, sir.
24 Q. Do we have an item 58 that represents
25 a sample that you took from the couch, closest to the
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2739

1 windows, facing the back yard?
2 A. I'm sorry on the 31?
3 Q. Yes.
4 A. I actually collected T-1.
5 Q. Okay.
6 A. So T-3 would have been cut later by
7 the DNA analysts.
8 Q. All right. Is 31-T-3, is going to be
9 a sample actually taken by the DNA people later on?
10 A. Yes, sir.
11 Q. 31-T-1, would it be in that same area
12 shown on the diagram?
13 A. Yes, sir.
14 Q. Let's make sure you have got that.
15 A. Yes, sir.
16 Q. Miss Long, with regards to the T-shirt
17 down here in front of me, State's Exhibit No. 25, how
18 many times did you take samples from the T-shirt?
19 A. Twice.
20 Q. All right. The first time that you
21 took samples, how many blood samples did you take?
22 A. I took seven.
23 Q. All right. And would you have labeled
24 those T-1 through T-7?
25 A. Yes, sir.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2740

1 Q. All right. Do you recall when you
2 took those samples?
3 A. Actually, those were done on June the
4 24th, 1996.
5 Q. Okay. And when you took the samples,
6 is it necessary to actually cut cloth out of the T-shirt
7 in order to get those samples?
8 A. On that shirt, yes, it was. Unless
9 there was some portion that was -- the blood was actually
10 caked on and we could take flakes off, but in that
11 instance, we actually cut cloth out of the actual shirt.
12 Q. All right. And as you would take a

13 sample, I see a hole here that has a T-1 next to it, is
14 that the way that you would indicate where you had taken
15 sample?
16 A. Yes, sir.
17 Q. Okay. And that would be true for T-1
18 through T-7; is that right?

19 A. Yes, sir.
20 Q. Now, when is the second time that you
21 took samples from the T-shirt?
22 A. It actually spanned over two days;
23 September 12th and September the 13th, 1996.
24 Q. All right. And again, would these now
25 be T-8 through T-15?
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2741

1 A. Yes, sir.
2 Q. And again, did you indicate those, I
3 see a hole here that has a T-9, again, would you indicate
4 your samples the same way that you did the first time?
5 A. Yes, sir.
6 Q. Miss Long, if you would please look at
7 the photographs that I have had marked as State's Exhibit
8 120 and 121. Do you recognize State's Exhibit 120 to be
9 a photograph from the front of the T shirt, State's
10 Exhibit No. 25?
11 A. Yes, sir.
12 Q. And do you recognize State's Exhibit
13 121 to be a photograph of the back portion of State's

14 Exhibit No. 25?
15 A. Yes, sir.
16 Q. All right. On these two photographs,
17 have we indicated where you took your T samples, T-1
18 through 15?
19 A. Yes, sir.
20 Q. Okay. And the locations that we have
21 shown here on these photographs, do they accurately
22 reflect where you took those samples from?
23 A. Yes, sir.
24 Q. Now, Miss Long, in addition to the

25 samples that you took from the T-shirt, State's Exhibit
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2742

1 No. 25 -- let me ask you whether or not you have ever met
2 an individual by the name of Terry Labor?
3 A. Yes, sir, briefly.
4 Q. Okay. And would you tell the members
5 of the jury when and where you met him?
6 A. I met him at our laboratory in Dallas
7 on August the 23rd, 1996.
8 Q. All right. And did he come to the lab
9 with anyone?
10 A. Yes, sir, he came with two of his
11 colleagues.
12 Q. Who were they?
13 A. I'm not sure of the gentlemen's names.
14 I didn't really meet them.
15 Q. Bart Epstein?
16 A. That was one of them.
17 Q. Okay. Any lawyers with him?

18 A. No, sir, not to the best of my
19 knowledge.
20 Q. Okay. When Mr. Labor came there, did
21 he inform you that he had been employed by the attorneys
22 representing Darlie Routier?

23 A. Yes, sir.
24 Q. And, when he came to your lab there in
25 August of 1996, did he, in fact, take samples also from
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2743

1 this T-shirt?
2 A. Yes, sir, he did.
3 Q. All right. And when Mr. Labor took
4 those samples, did he also mark where he had taken them?
5 A. Yes, sir, he did. I believe he used
6 A, an alphabetical numbering system.
7 Q. Okay. For instance, let me -- I'm

8 just looking here at the left sleeve. Do you see a large
9 hole with the letter F and then, the initials, it appears
10 TLL?
11 A. Yes, sir.
12 Q. Is that the way that he sampled and
13 the way that he actually documented which samples that he
14 had taken?
15 A. Yes, sir.
16 Q. Do you remember how many samples that
17 Mr. Labor took on behalf of Mrs. Routier?
18 A. I believe he took six.
19 Q. Did he take that --
20 A. He took -- I'm sorry -- he took seven.
21 Q. He took seven samples?
22 A. Yes, sir, A through G.
23 Q. Was that done out there at your
24 laboratory in Dallas?
25 A. Yes, sir, it was.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2744

1 Q. While he was out there, did you have
2 any conversations with Mr. Labor or watch him, what he
3 was doing?
4 A. I kind of watched what he was doing,
5 but I didn't really have any conversation with him.
6 Q. Now, let me ask you, prior to
7 testifying today, have you and I discussed what you did
8 in this case?
9 A. Yes, sir.
10 Q. Did we have conversations while we

11 were still in Dallas about what you had done with regards
12 to these items in front of us?
13 A. Yes, sir.
14 Q. All right. And let me ask you whether
15 or not you have spoken with any of the gentlemen here at
16 the other table, either Mr. Mosty, Mr. Mulder, Mr.
17 Hagler, Mr. Glover or Mr. Douglass here?
18 Have you spoken with any of them?
19 A. Yes, sir, I have.
20 Q. Okay. When did you meet with these
21 people?
22 A. It was on New Year's Eve, 1996.
23 Q. All right. Who did you meet with?
24 A. Mr. Mulder and Mr. Mosty and their
25 investigator.
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2745

1 Q. Okay. Is that Mr. Harrell here in the
2 corner?
3 A. Yes, sir.
4 Q. And, do you recall how long that
5 meeting took place?
6 A. It was approximately two hours. I had
7 to leave early.
8 Q. Okay. Who else was present at that
9 meeting?
10 A. Charles Linch.
11 Q. And during that meeting, did Mr. Mosty
12 or Mr. Mulder ask questions of you and Mr. Linch?
13 A. Yes, sir, they did.
14 Q. Okay. And did you provide information
15 to them?
16 A. Yes, sir.
17 Q. Did you supply them with any notes
18 that you had generated in this case?

19 A. Yes, sir, I did.
20 Q. Mr. Linch, did he do the same?
21 A. I'm not really sure if Charlie gave
22 them any copies of notes, but I believe he was open to
23 that.
24 Q. Okay. So you spoke with them New
25 Year's Eve and you were there for the meeting about two
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2746

1 hours, right?
2 A. Yes, sir, that's correct.
3 Q. Was the meeting still going on when
4 you left?
5 A. Yes, sir.
6
7 MR. GREG DAVIS: Your Honor, at this
8 time I will pass the witness for cross examination. And,
9 prior to her testimony, Miss Long has made a copy of all
10 of her notes. And I am giving those to Mr. Mosty at this
11 time. They should be complete.
12 MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY: May I have a
13 few moments, your Honor?
14 THE COURT: You may.
15 MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY: Is this my
16 copy?
17 MR. GREG DAVIS: Yes, sir.
18
19
20
21 CROSS EXAMINATION
22
23 BY MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY:
24 Q. Miss Long, the notes that you gave me,
25 these are a lot more than the ones that we talked about
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2747

1 on the 31st, is it not?
2 A. Yes, sir, it is.
3 Q. That was just about one specific --
4 A. Yes, sir.
5 Q. Two pages, if I remember right.
6 A. Yes, sir.
7 Q. In addition to these notes, have you
8 written any reports?
9 A. Yes, sir, I have.
10 Q. And what are those dated?
11 A. I have one dated September the 19th,
12 1996; September the 10th, 1996; and January the 6th,
13 1997.
14 Q. May I see those? I don't think I have
15 ever seen those. You don't happen to have an extra copy,
16 do you?
17
18 MR. GREG DAVIS: Let's see. I think I
19 have got one.
20 THE WITNESS: I have an extra copy of
21 the last one.
22 MR. GREG DAVIS: The one on January
23 6th?
24 THE WITNESS: Yes.
25 MR. GREG DAVIS: Okay. Here is the
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2748

1 January 6th.
2 MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY: I have seen
3 that one. I know I've got that one.
4 THE WITNESS: These are the other two.
5 MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY: All right. May
6 I get Mr. Douglass to maybe go make a copy of these?
7 THE COURT: Oh, yes.
8 THE WITNESS: I might have copies with
9 me. I do have copies.
10 MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY: These are not
11 the originals that you gave me, are they?
12 THE WITNESS: Those are the originals.
13 MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY: How about we
14 switch?
15 THE WITNESS: Okay.
16
17 BY MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY:
18 Q. All right. Miss Long, I -- because of
19 how some of these things are labeled, I'm a little
20 confused on some of it. I want to try to clarify that
21 with you.
22 A. Okay.
23 Q. How many total rags did you analyze?
24 A. Well --
25 Q. It seems like sometimes they are
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2749

1 referred to it as rags, sometimes as wash cloths.
2 A. Actually, there appears to be 10 of
3 the smaller towels, wash-cloth-type kitchen towels.
4 Q. Okay. Combining all of that, towels,
5 rags, wash cloths, whatever they are, there are 10 of
6 them?
7 A. There were also some other large type
8 beach towels that I analyzed.
9 Q. Okay. Ten rags or wash cloths, and
10 how many beach towels?
11 A. Seven that were actually submitted to
12 the laboratory.
13 Q. Now, when you create a number, let's
14 take a rag, for instance. You put that in a number under
15 your system as just 1 through whatever?
16 A. I'm sorry. I don't understand the
17 question.
18 Q. Well, we were referring a lot to your
19 item number 1, which is a different State's Exhibit
20 Number. How do you at SWIFS number? And let's just talk
21 about those things that you were involved in.
22 A. Each case that we have is assigned an
23 FL number, it could be a 90 or whatever year it is, the
24 last two numbers of the year. And the P number to
25 indicate that it belongs in the physical evidence
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2750

1 division, then it gets a one thousand number.
2 Q. Okay.
3 A. From there, our evidence registrar
4 then assigns individual numbers, starting from one to
5 each item that is submitted. We get items from the
6 medical examiner's office, we also get items from the
7 police department.

8 In this case, I actually went out and
9 collected my own items. So there were several different
10 agencies submitting items. She just went down the list
11 and went 1 through, I believe, a hundred and twenty-four
12 or so, and assigned each item its own number.
13 Q. In consecutive order?
14 A. Yes, sir.
15 Q. How do you do the blood sampling?

16 A. What type of blood sampling? Dried
17 samples from the scene, or --
18 Q. Yes, samples from the scene, or
19 objects at the scene?
20 A. Each of those was given its own
21 number.
22 Q. Okay. And that begins with a 1, 2, 3?
23 A. Right. Everything, from the medical
24 examiner or from the police departments or from myself
25 were each given a number in chronological order, 1
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2751

1 through 100 and something.
2 Q. For instance, how do you do the Ts? I
3 mean, there are two Ts, three -- what is the T?
4 A. The T is test area.
5 Q. Okay.
6 A. Usually, with each item, say there is
7 a number 12 or number 13 was a T-shirt. The T-shirt

8 itself was number 13. However, each stain that I cut
9 from the shirt was assigned its own number. A test area
10 is the stain -- with actual stain on it.
11 On some instances there were items

12 that didn't have any blood on them. You know, there
13 would be one part that was bloody and one part that

14 wasn't. I tried to collect a part that isn't bloody and
15 a part that is bloody, in case there is some kind of dye
16 reaction or something, where we have a substrate control,
17 which is just a part of the item that is not stained.

18 Q. So, if I have got, for instance, T-1
19 through 4, that's going to tell me that you took four
20 samples off of that item?
21 A. Yes, sir, that's correct.
22 Q. But does that tell me whether or not
23 they had blood on them or not?
24 A. No, sir.
25 Q. Then you have to go to the remainder
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2752

1 of your report or your test to identify which did and
2 which didn't?
3 A. Yes, sir, that's correct.
4 Q. Now, and I noted that when you took
5 that picture of the sink, at that point, had you wrote
6 (sic) on that sink?
7 A. Yes, sir, I did.

8 Q. Okay. And, did you put your initials
9 on there?
10 A. No, sir, I did not.
11 Q. Okay. But did you photograph it then?
12 A. I did not photograph it. An officer
13 from the Rowlett Police Department did.
14 Q. Okay. But that was to document what
15 you had done for future reference?
16 A. Yes, sir, because my notes are just my
17 own notes, kind of an artist rendering thing, they are
18 not exact. The photograph depicts much more accurately
19 what was actually there.
20 Q. And in that Exhibit, I think it was
21 No. 110, you were really just focusing in on those areas,
22 the photographer was just focusing in on those areas that
23 you had picked out?
24 A. Yes, sir. I had actually tested the
25 sink, indicated the positive areas, then I called him
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2753

1 over and asked him to photograph it.
2 Q. And by that time, you were actually
3 looking inside the sink bowl itself?
4 A. Yes, sir, as closely as possible.
5 Q. Okay. And you indicated that there
6 was blood mixed with water in that sink area?

7 A. It was diluted out blood.
8 Q. And from your training you can tell
9 that?
10 A. Yes, sir.
11 Q. And, it would have been consistent
12 with someone running -- after there had been some blood

13 in that sink, of wetting a wash towel or running water or
14 something, so that water then spills into the sink area
15 where the blood already was?
16 A. Or, you could be wringing out a rag,
17 or you could be washing blood off of your hands. Or like
18 -- yes, sir.
19 Q. Anyway, there is blood there, then
20 water comes out of the sink and whatever activity you are
21 doing is then going to create that diluted blood?
22 A. Yes, sir, that's correct.
23 Q. Okay. And, the streaked area that you
24 described, did that appear to be something that had run
25 down and dripped inside?
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2754

1 A. No, sir, it did not.
2 Q. Okay.
3 A. You could not -- it was not detectable
4 without opening the door of the cabinet.
5 Q. All right. When you set about to
6 sample an item, how do you choose that? How do you say,
7 "I'm going to take one sample, or two," or, I think the

8 most -- I remember you saying was six, maybe, or in that
9 neighborhood?
10 A. I believe on the Victoria's Secret
11 nightshirt, I actually collected almost 15 stains.
12 Q. Over two different times?
13 A. Yes, sir.
14 Q. Okay. But how does -- how do you go
15 about that? For instance, you're out at the scene and

16 there is this bloody footprint in the garage. How do you
17 go about deciding what to collect?
18 A. I wouldn't have exactly called it a
19 bloody footprint. It was a transfer stain. Because it
20 was in the garage, that seemed to be an important area at
21 that time, the alleged perpetrator would have left
22 through the garage, according to the victim's story.
23 If there was any blood in the garage,
24 that would have been important at that time.
25 Q. Well, I don't mean to quibble with
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2755

1 whether or not it is a footprint or whatever it is, it is
2 a bloody area. Can we with agree on that?
3 A. Yes, sir.
4 Q. All right. How did you choose how to
5 take a blood sample out -- out of what part of that
6 bloody area? How do you make that decision?
7 A. There was actually two stains that I
8 collected in the garage. I collected them because they
9 were in the garage. It was an important area at that
10 time, because the victim's story stated that the
11 perpetrator had left through that area.
12 Q. You and I are not clicking. We're --
13 I'm saying, -- and then let me get off the -- let me go
14 somewhere else.
15 Let me go to -- you are down at the
16 Dallas County Courthouse and someone has been shot out in
17 front and you see a bloody spot, and a smudge, and a
18 footprint and, you know, areas of blood?
19 A. If it was --
20 Q. And they say to you, "We would like
21 for you to sample that."
22 How do you go about that process,
23 saying, "I'm going to take a sample from here or there or
24 yonder." How do you go about that process?
25 A. It's a matter of putting together the
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2756

1 story. Was there a suspect that was injured or possibly
2 injured? Is the area where the blood is, is it open to
3 the elements?
4 Q. I'll take care of that for you.
5 A. Okay.
6 Q. There is a bloody spot and I am the

7 investigator. No, no, there is a bloody area, more or
8 less, as big as this sheet. And I am the investigator
9 and I say, "I would like for you, Miss Long, to sample
10 that." You don't take the whole thing?
11 A. It would kind of be impractical.

12 Q. Not impossible, but it would be
13 laborious.
14 A. Correct.
15 Q. But how do you do that off of that
16 sheet? Would you just pick the most bloody spot, or the
17 cleanest spot, or how would you make that choice?
18 A. If it's one large consistent stain,
19 you would take a portion of the stain.
20 Q. For instance, a part of this is --
21 it's maybe sort of smeared, and part of it appears
22 undisturbed, and part of it has more blood. Would you --
23 what part of that would you take?
24 A. It's something that you would have to
25 see. You are expecting me to visualize something that
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2757

1 only you can see. I'm having trouble seeing what is in
2 your mind.
3 Q. Actually, I don't see it either.
4 Well, as an example, the -- you got one of these back.
5 Did you get these in these bags?
6 A. Yes, sir.
7 Q. When you got them? Did they have
8 evidence tags on them?
9 A. Most of them were sealed containers,
10 yes, sir.
11 Q. Did they have like a stapled Rowlett
12 P.D. evidence tag on them?
13 A. I believe most of them did.
14 Q. Okay. But those have somehow gotten
15 set aside somewhere?
16 A. I would assume so. I don't know if
17 Rowlett keeps them or where they have gone since my
18 examination of the items.
19 Q. Did one of the rags you tested, did it
20 come in two rags in one bag?
21 A. Yes, sir.
22 Q. And as a serologist, you don't like
23 that, do you?
24 A. In a perfect world, that wouldn't be
25 appropriate.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2758

1 Q. Because that can affect the integrity
2 of what you observe and the sampling you take?
3 A. I'm not quite sure about that.
4 Q. Well, you get one bloody item in a bag
5 with another, blood that was on one can end up on the
6 other?
7 A. Yes, sir, but I took samples from both
8 items.
9 Q. Well, I understand that. I'm just
10 talking about the transferring of blood.
11 A. If there had been a foreign blood type
12 on one, you know, if there is one blood type on one and
13 another blood type on the other and they mix together,
14 the DNA analyst would be able to pick up both blood
15 types.
16 Q. Okay. And I don't quarrel with that,
17 but that DNA analyst wouldn't be able to say, "Was it
18 originally on that one, or is it originally on that one?"
19 A. That's correct.
20 Q. They can't make that determination,
21 can they?
22 A. If the items were wet when they were
23 co-mingled.
24 Q. And if there is a single spot of blood
25 of one individual and it happens to get transferred on to
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2759

1 the other, the DNA analyst can never say, other than it's
2 blood there. They can't say whether it got there before
3 they were thrown together or after?
4 A. That's correct.
5 Q. Can't find my two rags, but I did have
6 one. Okay. Here is a rag from the scene which is
7 State's Exhibit 87.
8 Now, did you take some samplings from
9 this?
10 A. Yes, sir, I did.
11 Q. Okay. Now, how then does one go about
12 doing that? Making the choice: "I'm going to cut out
13 this spot, but I am not going to cut out that one"?
14 A. This item appeared to be folded when
15 it was submitted to the laboratory. You can see here,

16 the stain that I cut is also consistent with the stain
17 that -- it appears that it has bled through.
18 Q. That is actually a transfer through
19 from one side to another; is that correct?
20 A. Yes, sir. Therefore, I only cut the
21 one stain.
22 Q. Okay.
23 A. I cut the --
24 Q. Let me go over that point with you
25 right now. You are saying that because it appeared
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2760

1 that -- do you assume that -- or was the side that is up
2 now the bloodiest?
3 A. Yes, sir.
4 Q. In your opinion? More bloodier than
5 the other?
6 A. Yes, sir.
7 Q. Okay. And is that more bloody spot

8 was sitting in this manner, would then that blood seep
9 through to the other side?
10 A. Yes, sir, if it was bloody enough.
11 Q. Well, and this one appears that it
12 was, doesn't it?
13 A. Yes, sir.
14 Q. I mean that was your judgment?
15 A. Yes, sir.

16 Q. So you can see that hole, and there is
17 actually blood that has soaked through to the other side
18 of this rag?
19 A. Yes, sir, that is the way it appeared
20 to be.
21 Q. So you made a choice to take, what,
22 the more bloody spot?
23 A. Yes, sir.
24 Q. And then, this other one farther down
25 has blood, and it also appears to have soaked through,
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2761

1 does it not?
2 A. Yes, sir.
3 Q. And why and how would you go about --
4 I'm not really trying to say, "How did you pick this
5 one?" But how, in general, do you look for that? Do you
6 look for a more bloody spot?
7 A. It's the better stain to -- in case,
8 let's say, I needed to do serological analysis on it, if
9 the DNA analysts needed to do DNA analysis on it, if a
10 defense expert wanted to do DNA analysis on it, or a
11 serological analysis, what I try to do is collect enough
12 so that everybody has enough.
13 Q. So you really, in that instance, you
14 are looking for a large spot?
15 A. If -- since the large spot was there,
16 I cut it.
17 Q. Okay. And, these that are over on the
18 other side, you -- those are the ones that you did, that
19 you would think would be -- that you didn't want to take?
20 A. Actually -- there was a line across
21 here, where it appeared to have been folded. So it could
22 have been folded like this at some point. And this stain
23 right here may have been a transfer from that stain.
24 Q. Okay.
25 A. It's only speculation.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2762

1 Q. Okay. So you just have to look at
2 that and make those judgments, this one might be a good
3 one to take?
4 A. Yes, sir.
5 Q. Because of it's size?
6 A. Yes, sir.
7 Q. Or it's cleanliness or whatever?

8 A. And also, if it's a stain with no
9 other stains intermingling with it, we try to get

10 discrete stains, so that we get clear blood types.
11 Q. Okay. Now, you sort of folded this
12 towel up in a manner that some of the stains seemed to
13 match, correct?
14 A. Yes, sir.
15 Q. And, so, if this were collected and
16 preserved in that method, of how it was found, for
17 instance?
18 A. In what method?

19 Q. Well, if it appears that -- if it were
20 found like this, these blood stains appear consistent and
21 they were collected in a manner, the person that
22 collected it could prevent this from staining another
23 part, could they not?
24 A. Unless it was -- because it appears
25 that it was bled on while it was folded down that one
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2763

1 line.
2 Q. Okay. Down this line here?
3 A. It goes all the way. It could have
4 been like this, or it could have possibly been like this.
5 Q. Okay. So when it's collected, the
6 position it's in and when it is collected can be
7 important, can't it?
8 A. I would assume in some instances it
9 could be.
10 Q. For instance, if it were like this
11 when I found it and I picked it up and I did like this, I
12 could make a transfer of blood from one side to the
13 other?
14 A. If the item was still wet.
15 Q. Right. Right. I'm assuming that the
16 item is still wet.
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. And, of course, you conclude that when
19 you take that hole and it's soaked through to the other
20 side, that is wet blood soaking through, isn't it?
21 A. Yes, sir.
22 Q. So the method in which that is picked
23 up and then placed in a bag, or how it's kept, can affect
24 the integrity of what you see later?
25 A. In some instances.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2764

1 Q. That would be true, for instance, of a
2 shirt if you got it, and you rumpled it up and threw it
3 in a bag, and then blood from the shirt soaked through
4 the shirt itself and down to the bottom of the bag. That
5 can affect the integrity of what you see later on in the
6 laboratories?
7 A. Yes, of the actual staining patterns.
8 Q. Right.
9 A. Not of the actual evidence itself.
10 Q. Yeah. It's still going to be blood,
11 but the integrity of where it was at certain times is now
12 compromised?
13 A. Yes, sir.
14 Q. So the location then becomes suspect,
15 even though you can still say that is blood, and you can
16 do whatever.
17 You can hand it on to the DNA people
18 and they can type it. The location of that blood is
19 compromised?
20 A. In stains that would soak through,
21 yes, right.
22 Q. That being wet, you know, a wet object
23 that is thrown in a bag, for instance?
24 A. Yes, and they basically have to be
25 very, very wet.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2765

1 Q. Well, for instance, this shirt that
2 the State has had you identify, did you look at the
3 bottom of that bag? Mrs. Routier's shirt; that bag that
4 Mrs. Routier's shirt was thrown in?
5 A. Yes, sir.
6 Q. There's blood in the bottom of that
7 bag, isn't there?
8 A. Yes, sir.
9 Q. And that would be consistent with me
10 taking that shirt and throwing it in there, and then that
11 shirt soaking through itself, dripping blood on to the
12 bottom of the bag?
13 A. If -- or if the most bloody portion
14 was actually exposed to the bottom of the bag.
15 Q. It could be either way, couldn't it?
16 A. Yes, sir.
17 Q. It could be that it's just soaking
18 through itself, the bloodiest part is put in on top, and
19 it soaks all the way through to the bottom of the bag?
20 A. That could have happened, yes, sir.
21 Q. And you can see blood that has soaked
22 off of this shirt on to the bottom of that bag, can't
23 you?
24 A. Yes, sir.
25 Q. So it's fair to say that the integrity
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2766

1 of the locations of the blood spot on this shirt have
2 been compromised?
3 A. I wouldn't necessarily say that.
4 Q. Well, of course, you wouldn't
5 necessarily say it, but it's certainly possible, isn't
6 it?
7 A. It could have been possible, but as I
8 said, if the most soaked portion was directly on the
9 bottom of the bag, that could have been how the bottom of
10 the bag got wet.
11 Q. Okay. I'll accept that as your theory
12 that the bloodiest part was put in first. Okay. I'll
13 accept that.
14 Now, will you also accept my theory

15 that perhaps the bloodiest part was put in on top and
16 that it went through that way?
17 A. I didn't really see any soaking

18 through stains, but again, I'm not a blood spatter
19 expert.
20 Q. Well, you see the stains on the
21 bottom, don't you?
22 A. Yes, sir, on the bottom of the bag.
23 Q. So the fact of the matter is it could
24 be the way you suggest, and it could be the way I
25 suggest.
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2767

1 A. Yes, sir.
2 Q. And we will never know, will we?
3 A. No, sir, we won't.
4 Q. Now, the blood that you identified on
5 the window screen?
6 A. Yes, sir.
7 Q. Now, did I understand that you draw
8 no -- other than that being blood, you draw no
9 conclusions from it?
10 A. Yes, sir. It was actually on the
11 frame of the window screen.
12 Q. I'm going to apologize if I am

13 skipping around, because this is my notes as I am
14 rambling, so stop me if we are not together. I'm going
15 to move back to talking about rugs.
16 You told me how many rags you tested,
17 you've told me how many towels you have tested. How many
18 rugs did you test?
19 A. Are you talking about actual throw
20 rugs, or sections of carpet?
21 Q. No, I don't want to talk about carpet.
22 Let's separate rugs for now. And we can cover carpet
23 too, if you like. You did two sections of carpet, didn't
24 you?
25 A. Yes, sir.
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2768

1 Q. I'm clear on that one.
2 A. Two large sections, yes, sir.
3 Q. Two large sections?
4 A. Yes, sir. I also cut fibers from the
5 rug, from the actual carpet.
6 Q. Okay. The -- now, let's talk about

7 throw rugs. How many throw rugs were delivered to you?
8 A. I believe I tested two.
9 Q. Two. And in your notes, how did you
10 describe those? What did you number them and how did you
11 describe them?
12 A. I got a number 70 rug.
13 Q. Okay. That is -- is that your number?
14 A. That is, yes, that is SWIFS number 70.
15 Q. Okay. And how did you describe that
16 rug in your notes?
17 A. It's a floral rug. It measures 27
18 inches by 45 inches. The tag reads, 100 percent cotton,
19 handwoven rug, style, Kennsington. It had a green and
20 mauve floral pattern in the center with a green,
21 checkered border.
22 Q. Is that State's Exhibit 68?
23 A. Yes. It's our item number 70.
24 Q. Okay. Does your item number 70 show
25 on there?
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1 A. Yes, sir.
2 Q. So, item number 70 is State's Exhibit
3 No. 68?
4 A. Yes, sir.
5 Q. What other rugs did you test?
6 A. I tested a throw rug. It was SWIFS
7 Exhibit Number 1O1.
8 Q. Okay. And how was that rug described?
9 A. It was basically a green throw rug
10 with fringe on both ends. It measured about 42 inches by
11 approximately 29 inches.
12
13 MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY: Is that in
14 evidence?
15 MR. GREG DAVIS: Number 104? Yes.
16 MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY: Is 104 the
17 SWIFS number?
18 THE WITNESS: The SWIFS number was
19 101.
20 MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY: 101.
21 MR. GREG DAVIS: I don't think that is
22 in evidence, Richard. I don't recall putting it in
23 evidence.
24 MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY: Okay.
25
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2770

1 BY MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY:
2 Q. Mr. Davis informs me that he doesn't
3 think that that SWIFS 101 is in evidence. But it is a
4 green throw rug?
5 A. Yes, sir.

6 Q. Did you take any samples off that one?
7 A. Yes, sir, I did.
8 Q. How many?
9 A. I collected six samples.
10 Q. Those would then be numbered 101-T?
11 A. T-1 through T-6.
12 Q. 1 through 6?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. Okay. Did you test those for blood?
15 A. Yes, sir, I did.
16 Q. And was any of that or all of that
17 positive?
18 A. Yes, sir, they were.
19 Q. All?
20 A. All six.
21 Q. Did you test any other rugs?
22 A. No, sir, I don't recall testing any
23 other rugs.
24 Q. Two rugs. And so I am clear, a total
25 of two rugs, being one that was floral, and one, was it,
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2771

1 tell me that was solid?
2 A. Yes, sir, it was.
3 Q. And that is no other rugs that you
4 tested?
5 A. No, sir.
6 Q. And were any other rugs delivered to
7 you?
8 A. No, sir.
9 Q. Have you tested everything that was
10 delivered to you for blood, or after visually observing
11 it, obviously?
12 A. No, sir, I have not.
13 Q. Okay.
14 A. There were some water samples

15 collected at the scene, and some plumbing that was
16 collected at the scene, that I did not test.
17 Q. They delivered you the kitchen sink,
18 literally, didn't they?
19 A. I did the kitchen sink myself at the
20 scene, so I didn't get the kitchen sink, but we did get
21 quite a bit of plumbing and water samples.
22 Q. And you did not do bloo