Volume 23

1 IN THE CRIMINAL DISTRICT COURT NO. 3
2 DALLAS COUNTY, TEXAS
3
4
5
6 THE STATE OF TEXAS } NO. F-96-39973-J
7 VS: } & A-96-253
8 DARLIE LYNN ROUTIER } Kerr Co. Number
9
10
11
12
13 STATEMENT OF FACTS
14 JURY VOIR DIRE
15 INDIVIDUAL JURORS HEARING
16 VOL. 23 OF VOLS.
17 November 13, 1996
18 Wednesday
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2674

1 C A P T I O N
2
3
4 BE IT REMEMBERED THAT, on Wednesday, the 13th day of
5 November, 1996, in the Criminal District Court Number 3
6 of Dallas County, Texas, the above-styled cause came on
7 for a hearing before the Hon. Mark Tolle, Judge of the
8 Criminal District Court No. 3, of Dallas County, Texas,
9 without a jury, and the proceedings were held, in open
10 court, in the City of Kerrville, Kerr County Courthouse,
11 Kerr County, Texas, and the proceedings were had as
12 follows:
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2675

1 A P P E A R A N C E S
2
3
4 HON. JOHN VANCE
5 Criminal District Attorney
6 Dallas County, Texas
7
8 BY: HON. TOBY L. SHOOK
9 Assistant District Attorney
10 Dallas County, Texas
11
12 AND:
13 HON. JOHN GRAU
14 Assistant District Attorney
15 Dallas County, Texas
16
17 AND:
18 HON. SHERRI WALLACE
19 Assistant District Attorney
20 Dallas County, Texas
21
22 APPEARING FOR THE STATE OF TEXAS
23
24
25
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2676

1 ADDITIONAL APPEARANCES:
2
3 HON. DOUGLAS D. MULDER
4 Attorney at Law
5 2650 Maxus Energy Tower
6 717 N. Harwood
7 Dallas, TX 75201
8
9 AND: HON. CURTIS GLOVER
10 Attorney at Law
11 2650 Maxus Energy Tower
12 717 N. Harwood
13 Dallas, TX 75201
14
15 AND: HON. RICHARD C. MOSTY
16 Attorney at Law
17 Wallace, Mosty, Machann, Jackson & Williams
18 820 Main Street, Suite 200
19 Kerrville, TX 78028
20
21 AND: HON. S. PRESTON DOUGLASS, JR.
22 Attorney at Law
23 Wallace, Mosty, Machann, Jackson & Williams
24 820 Main Street, Suite 200
25 Kerrville, TX 78028
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2677

1
2 AND: HON. JOHN HAGLER
3 Attorney at Law
4 901 Main Street, Suite 3601
5 Dallas, TX 75202
6 ALL ATTORNEYS REPRESENTING THE
7 DEFENDANT: DARLIE ROUTIER
8 MR. HAGLER HANDLING THE APPEAL
9 AND:
10 HON. ALBERT D. PATILLO, III
11 Attorney at Law
12 820 Main Street, Suite 211
13 Kerrville, TX 78028
14 APPEARING FOR: Witness-
15 Detective Jimmy Patterson
16 only on one date in trial
17 AND:
18 HON. STEVEN J. PICKELL
19 Attorney at Law
20 620 Earl Garrett Street
21 Kerrville, TX 78028
22 APPEARING FOR: Witness
23 Officer Chris Frosch
24 only on one date in trial
25
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2678

1 P R O C E E D I N G S
2
3 November 13th, 1996
4 Wednesday
5 8:30 a.m.
6
7 (Whereupon, the following
8 proceedings were held in
9 open court, in the presence
10 and hearing of the
11 defendant, being
12 represented by her attorneys
13 and the representatives of
14 the State of Texas,
15 as follows:)
16
17 THE COURT: All right. Are you ready?
18 MR. S. PRESTON DOUGLASS, JR: Yes,
19 sir.
20 MR. TOBY L. SHOOK: Yes, sir, we're
21 ready.
22 THE COURT: All right. Bring in the
23 first juror. Mr. Cecil McGehee, M-C-G-E-H-E-E; is that
24 correct, sir?
25 THE PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes, sir.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2679

1 THE COURT: Will you raise your right
2 hand, please, sir.
3 Do you solemnly swear or affirm that
4 you will true answers make to all questions propounded to
5 you concerning your qualifications as a juror, so help
6 you God?
7
8 (Whereupon, the prospective
9 juror was duly sworn by the
10 Court to true answers make
11 to the questions propounded,
12 concerning qualifications, after
13 which time, the proceedings were
14 resumed as follows:)
15
16 THE PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes, sir.
17 THE COURT: Thank you, sir. I
18 understand you are a very popular man. You not only got
19 a summons the last time, but on the new panel coming up,
20 you have another summons.
21 THE PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I have a new
22 summons.
23 THE COURT: They want you. Seriously,
24 you can just ignore the one coming up. You are a
25 potential juror -- still a potential juror in the Darlie
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2680

1 Routier matter.
2 Mrs. Routier is the young lady sitting
3 there next to her attorney, Mr. Preston Douglass.
4 The State is represented by two
5 Assistant District Attorneys from Dallas County, Toby
6 Shook and Sherri Wallace.
7 Mr. Douglass will be joined shortly by
8 Curtis Glover, another attorney from Dallas. But both
9 sides want to ask you some questions.
10 There are no wrong answers, there
11 won't be a test. We just have to know how you feel about
12 being a juror in this case.
13 So, who will go for the State? Ms.
14 Wallace.
15
16
17 Whereupon,
18
19 CECIL RAY MCGEHEE,
20
21 was called as a prospective juror, for the purpose of
22 voir dire, having been first duly sworn by the Court to
23 speak the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the
24 true, testified in open court, as follows:
25
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2681

1 VOIR DIRE EXAMINATION
2
3 BY MS. SHERRI WALLACE:
4 Q. Good morning. How are you?
5 A. Fine.
6 Q. Thanks for coming in. I want to thank
7 you for taking the time to come in, it sounds like you
8 have a tight schedule with your truck driving.
9 A. Yes, ma'am.
10 Q. So, we really appreciate it. Also, we
11 want to thank you for the time you took to fill out your
12 questionnaire. It has been really helpful to us and this
13 process may seem like it might take a while, but it would
14 take longer if you didn't take the time to do that. So,
15 thank you ahead of time.
16 Before we get started, do you have any
17 questions for me?
18 A. No, ma'am.
19 Q. Okay. Do you know either of the local
20 lawyers, either the gentlemen that's here today, Preston
21 Douglass or Richard Mosty who was introduced a few weeks
22 ago?
23 A. Well, I just don't know Richard Mosty
24 personally, but I know of him.
25 Q. You know the name?
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2682

1 A. Yes.
2 Q. Anything about that that would affect
3 you as a juror in this case?
4 A. No, ma'am.
5 Q. Okay. And you didn't know any of the
6 people from Dallas, did you?
7 A. No, ma'am.
8
9 THE COURT: This is Mr. Glover.
10 MR. CURTIS GLOVER: Good morning.
11 THE PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Good morning.
12
13 BY MS. SHERRI WALLACE:
14 Q. He is one of the Dallas defense
15 attorneys. Mr. McGehee, am I saying your name right?
16 A. McGehee.
17 Q. Okay. In your questionnaire it said
18 your route took you through the Dallas area. That you
19 have read -- that you have heard extensively about this
20 case?
21 A. Yes, ma'am.
22 Q. And this case has received a lot of
23 press and a lot of publicity. And that really, frankly,
24 the reason we're here in Kerrville is to try to get away
25 from some of that.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter

2683

1 Having heard about the case does not
2 disqualify you as a juror, but having already made your
3 mind up would disqualify you as a juror. There is a real
4 good reason why we need jurors that will wait to hear the
5 evidence in the courtroom, and it came up a couple of
6 weeks ago. Do you remember Richard Jewell, that fellow
7 that was accused of bombing the Olympics?
8 A. I heard about it.
9 Q. Heard about -- security guard. He
10 called it in. And in the press pretty much he was tried
11 and convicted and then hung out to dry. And then two
12 weeks ago, I think, the FBI came out and said, "Oh, well,
13 we don't have any evidence against him."
14 You know, he was never charged and he
15 never went to court but his life is pretty much destroyed
16 or his reputation is from all of the negative press that
17 he received.
18 So, it's cases like that that make it
19 so important that this rule of law is followed. What I
20 need to know from you if your opinion -- well, have you
21 formed an opinion?
22 A. Well, yes. I have formed an opinion,
23 but I'm not saying it couldn't be changed in court.
24 Q. Okay. Here is kind of the legal
25 question I have to ask you: If your opinion affects your
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2684

1 verdict, or would affect your verdict, you can't sit as a
2 juror. If it would not affect your verdict, you can sit
3 as a juror. So, would your opinion affect your verdict
4 in this case?
5 A. I think so.
6 Q. Okay. Fair enough. Thank you, sir.
7
8 THE COURT: Is your mind open to
9 hearing new testimony? You have not totally made your
10 mind up now, have you?
11 THE PROSPECTIVE JUROR: No, sir.
12 THE COURT: In other words, if the
13 State doesn't prove their case, you could find the
14 defendant not guilty; if they prove the case, you could
15 find the defendant guilty; is that correct?
16 THE PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes, sir.
17 THE COURT: Okay. Fine.
18 MR. S. PRESTON DOUGLASS, JR: Your
19 Honor, I would go ahead and submit Mr. McGehee. I think
20 he said pretty clearly --
21 THE COURT: Well, he said two things.
22 It was not said the proper way. He said his mind was
23 open, then he said he could change. So, I think -- is
24 your mind open or not?
25 THE PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes, sir, it
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2685

1 is still open.
2 THE COURT: All right.
3 MR. S. PRESTON DOUGLASS, JR: But,
4 also in fairness to Mr. McGehee in response to her
5 question said would it influence you when you deliberate
6 and might have an effect on your verdict. He answered
7 very honestly that he thought it would.
8 THE COURT: Well, yes, he has not
9 heard anything. That's beside the -- is that why you
10 said that?
11 THE PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes, sir.
12 THE COURT: I think that is a very
13 fair answer. I am going to hold -- if you could just
14 keep -- you might want to, let's go through the whole
15 thing and get him either qualified or not qualified.
16
17 BY MS. SHERRI WALLACE:
18 Q. Mr. McGehee, as long as you can
19 promise the Court, you have to promise the Court that
20 your opinion will not affect your verdict. Can you
21 follow that law?
22 A. Yes, ma'am.
23 Q. Okay. Fair enough.
24
25 MR. S. PRESTON DOUGLASS, JR: Let me
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2686

1 just -- I hate to interrupt. I would assume, Your Honor,
2 that my motion to submit for cause is denied.
3 THE COURT: Oh, yes, that is denied.
4 That's right.
5
6 BY MS. SHERRI WALLACE:
7 Q. I want to talk to you a little bit, if
8 I could, about how you feel about the death penalty. It
9 says here that you're in favor of it. And I will read
10 what you wrote, it's been a while since you have written
11 it. It says: "I believe if proven guilty for a murder,
12 you should be executed for that crime committed."
13 Can you tell me a little bit about why
14 you are in favor of the death penalty?
15 A. Well, I just feel like if you take
16 someone's life intentionally that you should be punished
17 for it. And our jails are overcrowded now with death row
18 people who, you know, have been sentenced. That are not
19 meeting their sentence.
20 Q. Okay. Have you always been in favor
21 of the death penalty or has this evolved, something that
22 you --
23 A. Well, I think I have kind of always
24 been for it all along.
25 Q. Okay. Here in Texas not all murders
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2687

1 qualify for the death penalty. You have to have a murder
2 plus something else, if you will. Murder of a police
3 officer in the line of duty or of a fireman or a prison
4 guard; murder of more than one person; murder of a --
5 murder for hire, in other words, I hired somebody to go
6 kill somebody, I would be eligible for the death penalty
7 and so would the person I hired that killed for money; or
8 a murder in the course of another felony.
9 If you went over here to the Circle K
10 and robbed the attendant and then killed him, that would
11 be a crime that would be eligible for the death penalty;
12 or rape or kidnapping or murder in the course of those
13 types of crimes; or a murder of a child under the age of
14 six, which is, of course, the indictment that is on trial
15 here.
16 Do you have any quarrel with that
17 list? Would you add to it or change it if you were in
18 charge?
19 A. No.
20 Q. Okay. Does it sound like a pretty
21 fair lineup to you, crimes that should be eligible for
22 the death penalty?
23 A. Yes, ma'am.
24 Q. Okay. The second thing I want to talk
25 to you a little bit about is being eligible for the death
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2688

1 penalty and receiving a death sentence is two different
2 things. It's not automatic. We have to first convince
3 you beyond a reasonable doubt that a capital murder has
4 occurred. Okay?
5 If we fail to meet that burden, it's a
6 not guilty, and everybody goes home. But if the jury
7 believes the defendant is guilty beyond a reasonable
8 doubt, we go to the second phase of the trial, and that
9 is called the punishment phase.
10 Were you on a jury before?
11 A. No, ma'am.
12 Q. Okay. This is true in all types of
13 cases, criminal cases, not just capital murders. There
14 is the first phase, and the second phase is called the
15 punishment phase. And different types of evidence can
16 come in, more evidence. It may be that you hear more
17 evidence, it may not.
18 A lot of these questions I'm going to
19 ask you are real hard because I can't go into the facts,
20 I'm not allowed to talk about this case, so we have to
21 just talk in hypotheticals. Okay?
22 But it may be that you hear more
23 evidence, and you may not. But whether or not you do,
24 you still have to look at the evidence again, a second
25 time, and decide if the defendant is worthy of a death
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2689

1 sentence.
2 Let me stop right here and tell you
3 that woman down here at the end of table in the print
4 outfit, it is our goal and our desire to see that she is
5 executed. We believe we have the type of case and the
6 quality of evidence to do that.
7 Would you have any problem in
8 participating in that process, if we proved the case to
9 you?
10 A. Yes, I think I would.
11 Q. I'm sorry?
12 A. Yeah.
13 Q. You would? Can you tell me a little
14 bit about that?
15 A. Well, I just hate -- I would hate to
16 be the one to say --
17 Q. Okay. Do you have a religious or
18 moral reason or is it just something that would make you
19 uncomfortable?
20 A. It is just something that would make
21 me uncomfortable.
22 Q. Okay. Let me ask you, Mr. McGehee,
23 well, an example I heard said was, you know, let's say
24 you are in Dallas or San Antonio, one of the big cities,
25 and you see those tall skyscrapers, and you see those
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2690

1 people that are up there on the 9Oth floor cleaning the
2 windows, and I can look up there and say, "Well, I think
3 that is a good idea. Somebody needs to do it. And I
4 appreciate that there is somebody that will do it, but I
5 could not do that job."
6 Is that how you feel about the death
7 penalty?
8 A. Yes, ma'am.
9 Q. Okay. So, while you believe in it,
10 you wouldn't be able to carry out such a sentence
11 yourself; is that right?
12 A. No, ma'am.
13 Q. And is that regardless of the evidence
14 that we brought to you?
15 A. Yeah.
16 Q. I have got to go a little further with
17 you.
18 A. Okay.
19 Q. I'm sorry.
20 A. That's fine.
21
22 THE COURT: So, the bottom line is,
23 you couldn't be a fair juror in this case. Is that what
24 you are saying?
25 THE PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes, sir.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2691

1 THE COURT: Mr. Douglass, do you have
2 a motion for the Court?
3 MR. S. PRESTON DOUGLASS, JR: I would
4 resubmit the previous one, and also --
5 THE COURT: The Court having
6 reconsidered your motion, grants it. Is that
7 satisfactory?
8 MR. S. PRESTON DOUGLASS, JR: Thank
9 you.
10 THE COURT: Thank you, very much, sir.
11 You may step down. Sir, if you could not discuss this
12 with anybody until the trial is over, it will be in late
13 January. Then you can talk or not talk as you see fit.
14 I do have a gag order in effect, I can impose monetary
15 sanctions or jail time. I am not threatening you, I just
16 have to tell you that.
17 THE PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Okay.
18 THE COURT: Where do you drive all the
19 time?
20 THE PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Mainly in
21 Texas.
22 THE COURT: In Texas.
23 THE PROSPECTIVE JUROR: All over
24 Texas.
25 THE COURT: Well, good for you. Thank
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2692

1 you for coming in. And listen, ignore the summons for
2 next time, you don't have to come back.
3 THE PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Okay.
4 THE COURT: We appreciate it. All
5 right. Thank you very much. Let's bring them in. And
6 your name, ma'am?
7 THE PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Ardie
8 Garrison.
9 THE COURT: All right. This is number
10 247, number 81 on our list. And your name is Ardie,
11 A-R-D-I-E, Garrison, G-A-R-R-I-S-O-N; is that correct,
12 ma'am?
13 THE PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes, sir.
14 THE COURT: If you will raise your
15 right hand, please, ma'am.
16 Do you solemnly swear or affirm that
17 you will true answers make to all questions propounded to
18 you concerning your qualifications as a juror, so help
19 you God?
20 THE PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I do.
21
22 (Whereupon, the prospective
23 juror was duly sworn by the
24 Court to true answers make
25 to the questions propounded,
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2693

1 concerning qualifications, after
2 which time, the proceedings were
3 resumed as follows:)
4
5 THE COURT: Thank you. Ma'am, you
6 have been called to be a potential witness (sic) in the
7 Darlie Routier matter.
8 Mrs. Routier is the defendant, she is
9 the young lady sitting to your far right up here.
10 Next to her attorneys, Curtis Glover
11 from Dallas, and Preston Douglass who is from Kerrville.
12 The State is represented by two
13 Assistant District Attorneys from Dallas, Toby Shook and
14 Sherri Wallace. Both sides are going to ask you
15 something. Mr. Shook is going to ask you some questions,
16 and Mr. Douglass will.
17 And there are no wrong answers, no
18 test or anything. Please answer forthright and as
19 briefly as you can. If you could say yes or no, not
20 uh-huh or huh-uh, Ms. Halsey is taking all of this down
21 and can't take that down.
22 THE PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Okay.
23 THE COURT: All right, Mr. Shook.
24
25
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2694

1 Whereupon,
2
3 ARDIE FRANCIS GARRISON,
4
5 was called as a prospective juror, for the purpose of
6 voir dire, having been first duly sworn by the Court to
7 speak the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the
8 true, testified in open court, as follows:
9
10 VOIR DIRE EXAMINATION
11
12 BY MR. TOBY L. SHOOK:
13 Q. Again, Mrs. Garrison, my name is Toby
14 Shook, I am one of the prosecutors on the case, and I
15 will be asking you questions on behalf of the State.
16 A. Okay.
17 Q. If you have any questions of us at any
18 time, feel free to go ahead and ask. Okay?
19 A. Okay.
20 Q. I'll go over a little bit of your
21 background information that was here on your
22 questionnaire, then we will talk a little bit about the
23 law. I understand that you have seen or heard something
24 about the case on TV; is that right?
25 A. Uh-huh. (Witness nodding head
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2695

1 affirmatively.)
2
3 THE COURT: Is that a yes?
4 THE PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes, I'm
5 sorry.
6
7 BY MR. TOBY L. SHOOK:
8 Q. Tell me what you have heard on TV.
9 A. Really just about the main --
10
11 THE COURT REPORTER: Excuse me, I
12 can't hear what you are saying, ma'am.
13 THE COURT: If you could just slide
14 right up there and speak into that mike.
15 Now, your voice is going to resonate,
16 but don't get upset about that.
17 THE PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Okay. Mainly
18 just that supposedly she killed her two kids while her
19 husband was upstairs and that is about it.
20 And about the sock at the neighbor's
21 house or something like that.
22 I'm not really sure I have it. I
23 really don't know.
24
25
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2696

1 MR. TOBY L. SHOOK:
2 Q. And you heard that on TV; is that
3 right?
4 A. Uh-huh. (Witness nodding head
5 affirmatively.)
6
7 THE COURT: Is that a yes?
8 THE PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes.
9 THE COURT: Thank you, ma'am.
10
11 BY MR. TOBY L. SHOOK:
12 Q. Did you form any opinions at all in
13 regards to what you heard?
14 A. No.
15 Q. Okay. Now, I understand that you were
16 born in, I guess, it's McAllen, Texas?
17 A. Yes, sir.
18 Q. And you have lived in various Texas
19 towns?
20 A. Yes, sir.
21 Q. And how long have you lived in
22 Kerrville now?
23 A. About two and a half years.
24 Q. What brought you to Kerrville?
25 A. My parents decided to retire here, so
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2697

1 I came up with them.
2 Q. Okay. And now you work as a cashier
3 at Albertsons?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. How long have you been working there?
6 A. Almost three months.
7 Q. Okay. What were you doing before
8 that?
9 A. Nothing, just staying home with my
10 daughter.
11 Q. Okay. Well, do you live at home with
12 your parents?
13 A. No, I have my own home.
14 Q. Does your daughter live with you?
15 A. Uh-huh. (Witness nodding head
16 affirmatively.)
17 Q. Okay.
18
19 THE COURT: Is that a yes?
20 THE PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes.
21 THE COURT: Thank you.
22
23 BY MR. TOBY L. SHOOK:
24 Q. Let me ask you this then: What are
25 your hours at Albertsons?
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2698

1 A. Usually 7:00 a.m. to 4:00 p.m. or
2 sometimes 10:00 to 7:00.
3 Q. Okay. Judge Tolle has scheduled the
4 start of this trial for January 6th. Okay?
5 A. Uh-huh. (Witness nodding head
6 affirmatively.)
7 Q. And we think it will last about two
8 weeks, maybe three, but probably two. It goes from 9:00
9 in the morning until 5:00 in the afternoon, then you can
10 go home, unless you are in deliberations, then you might
11 be sequestered. All right?
12 I don't know what your situation is on
13 caring for your child, but you didn't take your
14 exemption. So, what we need to know, what I want to get
15 out of the way before I get any further is: If you were
16 placed on a jury for that two week period, are you going
17 to be able to, with your job and taking care of your
18 child, are you going to be able to concentrate on the
19 case, or is that going to be a problem?
20 A. No, that is no problem.
21 Q. Okay. So you have adequate
22 supervision?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. And you can work around your schedule.
25 Okay. Now, I want to -- you have never been on a jury
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2699

1 before; is that right?
2 A. Right.
3 Q. Let me ask you: Is it Arthur
4 Garrison? That is your father, right?
5 A. Right.
6 Q. Had a felony back in 1983 or '84?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. Tell me a little bit about that. What
9 type?
10 A. Well, I had to ask my mom about it
11 because I really didn't know. She said it was for armed
12 robbery.
13 Q. Okay. Do you know what happened on
14 it?
15 A. He was found guilty and they gave him
16 10 years probation, and he stayed in jail for about 10
17 months and that was it.
18 Q. Okay. How old were you when that
19 happened?
20 A. Well, I was young. I was about six or
21 seven.
22 Q. Okay. Does he ever talk about that?
23 A. No, not really.
24 Q. Anything like that?
25 A. Huh-uh. (Witness shaking head
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2700

1 negatively.)
2 Q. Do you think that would affect you in
3 any way?
4 A. No, I don't think so.
5 Q. Okay. Do you feel that he was -- from
6 what you know about it or what little you know about the
7 case, do you think he was treated fairly by the criminal
8 justice system?
9 A. Yeah. Yeah, he was.
10 Q. Okay. Let me ask you then: You know
11 from coming down on the voir dire, the big panel, that
12 the State is seeking the death penalty in this case?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. So we want to talk to every juror
15 about their personal feelings about the death penalty.
16 Are you in favor of the death penalty as a law?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. Okay. Tell me why.
19 A. Well, I just feel that if somebody
20 wants to commit a crime, kill somebody or murder
21 somebody, that the same thing should be done to them.
22 Q. Okay. Have you always felt that way?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. Have you ever followed any cases in
25 the news? Any big murder cases that you thought should
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2701

1 be death penalty cases or actually were death penalty
2 cases?
3 A. No.
4 Q. Have you -- do you just think then it
5 should be done just because, as a just punishment for
6 some killings; is that right?
7 A. If they did it, yes.
8 Q. Okay. If it's proven?
9 A. Right.
10 Q. Okay. In Texas, there's only certain
11 types of murder cases that call for the death penalty.
12 We have a lot of murder cases that you can get life in
13 prison, but you can't get the death penalty.
14 You have to have an intentional
15 killing plus some other aggravating fact, something else,
16 like murder during the course of a robbery.
17 A guy goes into 7-Eleven and shoots
18 the clerk during a robbery; or someone comes in and
19 breaks in your home; someone who murders someone during
20 the course of a rape or kidnapping; those type of
21 offenses.
22 A. Uh-huh. (Witness nodding head
23 affirmatively.)
24 Q. A mass murderer, or a serial killer,
25 you know, that falls in the category; murder of a police
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2702

1 officer while he is on duty.
2 A. Uh-huh. (Witness nodding head
3 affirmatively.)
4 Q. And murder of a child under the age of
5 six. In fact, you could take a moment to read that
6 indictment which is in front of you. You see that
7 typewritten portion? Read that to yourself.
8 A. Okay.
9 Q. That sets out the intentional killing
10 of a child under the age of six. What I want to know,
11 and obviously, I can't ask you what your verdict in this
12 case would be because you have not heard any witnesses,
13 but is that the type of case you think would be
14 appropriate for the death penalty under the proper facts
15 and circumstances?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. In Texas the way our system is set up
18 is the trial is divided into two parts. In the first
19 part we have to prove that case to you beyond a
20 reasonable doubt. If we don't do that, everybody goes
21 home. If we do do that, obviously, we go to the second
22 part of the trial.
23 In the second part of the trial you
24 might hear additional evidence, maybe about the
25 defendant's background. You may not. At the close of
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2703

1 that evidence you get these questions: This first
2 question you get is a "yes" or "no" question. It
3 basically asks: Is the defendant going to be a
4 continuing danger to society?
5 The second question is what we call
6 the mitigation question. It asks the jurors to review
7 all the evidence. They decide if there is some evidence
8 where they think a life sentence should be imposed rather
9 than a death sentence. If they don't see it, they answer
10 it "no."
11 But if you answer "yes" to the first
12 question and "no" to the second question, the Judge in
13 this case, he has no discretion, he would sentence the
14 defendant to death. If you answer them any other way,
15 it's a life sentence.
16 Those are the two alternatives, death
17 or life. Is that clear to you?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. You don't write in death or life, but
20 that's how the Judge sentences according to those
21 answers. In Texas the method of execution is by lethal
22 injection. Were you aware of that?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. Okay. The procedures in this case if
25 there was a "yes" or "no" and the Judge did sentence the
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2704

1 defendant, would call for this, someday, somewhere down
2 the line, the Judge would actually issue what's called a
3 death warrant in the case, with an execution date.
4 And on that day, actually the day
5 before the defendant would be moved to the Walls Unit in
6 Huntsville, Texas, placed in a special cell, would be
7 given time to maybe talk with family, friends, a
8 minister.
9 But at 6:00 p.m., guards would come to
10 that cell and take the defendant away. Probably, you may
11 have read about it or heard about it. They strap you
12 down to a gurney, there's witnesses there, needles are
13 put in, the death warrant is read, there's a chance for a
14 last statement, the poisons are then injected, and it
15 happens pretty quickly, about ten minutes, the heart and
16 lungs are stopped.
17 That is the method that would happen
18 in this case, it happens in every case. Some states have
19 the death penalty and they never invoke it. Texas, as
20 you are probably well aware, does. There have been over
21 100 executions in the State of Texas.
22 What I need to know is this: If you
23 could listen to the evidence and if we prove our case,
24 prove these questions to you, that they should be
25 answered "yes" and "no," can you actually take pen in
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2705

1 hand and write those answers out knowing that the
2 defendant would be executed in the manner I described?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. Okay. If we proved it?
5 A. Right.
6 Q. Okay. Also, let me talk to you about
7 this: You see this first question? It asks: "Do you
8 find from the evidence beyond a reasonable doubt that
9 there is a probability that the defendant would commit
10 criminal acts of violence that would constitute a
11 continuing threat to society?" That is the first
12 question we have to get a "yes" on.
13 Ask the jurors to make a prediction
14 that the defendant is going to be a danger. Do you see
15 that? You might get additional evidence in the
16 punishment phase. Obviously, you have had heard all
17 about the murder itself. Okay?
18 You might get additional evidence
19 about the defendant's background, if they have been in
20 prison before, or had a criminal history, you would hear
21 that. Vice versa, they may have never been in trouble in
22 their lives. Okay?
23 The law doesn't require that someone
24 be convicted or have a long criminal history before they
25 are tried for capital murder, intend to get the death
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2706

1 penalty. You may have a situation where they have been
2 good or haven't gotten into any trouble and then they go
3 out and commit capital murder.
4 So, you only have the facts of the
5 case itself to answer question number 1.
6 Again, I can't preview the facts for
7 you. I can't commit you to any facts. But what I need
8 to know is: Do you think that you could answer question
9 number 1 based on the facts of the case alone? Based on
10 the murder itself?
11 Would that give you enough information
12 to answer question number 1 "yes"?
13 A. No.
14 Q. Okay. And why not?
15 A. Well, you mean just the facts that I
16 know right now?
17 Q. Well, you don't know any facts right
18 now.
19 A. Just the --
20
21 THE COURT: Mr. Shook is referring to
22 after the trial is over.
23 THE PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Oh, okay.
24
25
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2707

1 BY MR. TOBY L. SHOOK:
2 Q. Yeah, what I'm referring to is if,
3 what you have to assume is this: You have already found
4 the defendant guilty. Okay?
5 A. Uh-huh. (Witness nodding head
6 affirmatively.)
7 Q. Of the killing. So you would have
8 already heard all of the facts surrounding the offense
9 itself.
10 A. Uh-huh. (Witness nodding head
11 affirmatively.)
12 Q. The murder. But you may not get any
13 more information, maybe they have done nothing else wrong
14 in their life. So you have already found them guilty
15 beyond a reasonable doubt, and now we're looking at this
16 punishment phase.
17 So, I can't get into what facts you
18 might know, but you have to assume at least that you have
19 found the defendant guilty of capital murder. Okay?
20 A. Okay.
21 Q. What I need to know is: If that might
22 be the only fact you know about the defendant, the facts
23 surrounding the murder itself.
24 A. And if I -- so say that I found her
25 guilty. Is that what you are saying?
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2708

1 Q. Uh-huh. (Attorney nodding head
2 affirmatively.)
3 A. After the trial is over?
4 Q. Well, the trial is still going to be
5 going on.
6 A. Okay.
7 Q. It's not going to be over. The first
8 part of the trial --
9 A. You are asking me if I would think she
10 would be a threat to society?
11 Q. Well, I'm asking you if you think that
12 it's possible for you to answer -- yeah. To say she is a
13 threat to society just based on the murder itself.
14 A. No, I don't think so.
15 Q. You would have to know something more?
16 A. Probably, yeah.
17 Q. Would you require -- does that mean
18 you would require a criminal history or something like
19 that?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. Okay. So, and like I said, there is
22 no right or wrong answers. Would you want a criminal
23 history or some type of other -- you know, a prison
24 sentence or something like that something in their
25 background before you could answer "yes"?
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2709

1 A. Yes.
2 Q. Okay. If they had no criminal
3 history, you couldn't do that, you couldn't answer it
4 yes?
5 A. No.
6 Q. Okay. So, you would want some type
7 of, I guess, kind of track record for prison?
8 A. Well, not just prison, just
9 background, I guess.
10 Q. Okay. Something more than just the
11 murder itself?
12 A. Right.
13 Q. Okay. Let me go into a couple of
14 other things the Judge talked about. The defendant has a
15 presumption of innocence when we start out the trial.
16 Okay?
17 The fact that the defendant has been
18 indicted, the Judge told you is no evidence --
19 A. Uh-huh. (Witness nodding head
20 affirmatively.)
21 Q. -- of guilt, or been arrested, or
22 anything like that. Some people feel that way and some
23 people say, "When there is smoke, there is fire." How do
24 you feel about that?
25 A. Well, I believe she is innocent until
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2710

1 whatever we decide, the jury.
2 Q. So, you could follow that rule of law?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. The presumption of innocence. Also,
5 the Judge explained to you about the Fifth Amendment, the
6 defendant has a right not to testify.
7 A. Right.
8 Q. And if she chooses not to testify, you
9 can't hold that against her?
10 A. Right.
11 Q. Could you follow that rule of law?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. Okay. The Judge also told you that
14 the State has the burden of proof. You have to prove to
15 this case beyond a reasonable doubt.
16 A. Right.
17 Q. Okay. The defense is under no
18 obligation to prove anything to you. Okay? They don't
19 have to prove her innocence. Can you follow that rule of
20 law?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. Also, you would get an instruction
23 about the parole laws in this case. You may have heard
24 about our parole laws, early release. However, the Judge
25 will tell you that you can't consider that for any reason
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2711

1 in your deliberations. Could you do that?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. Okay. Is there any other reason you
4 can think -- any other information we need to know about
5 you as far as making a decision on you? Anything
6 important in your background?
7 A. I don't think so.
8 Q. Okay.
9
10 MR. TOBY L. SHOOK: That's all we have
11 then, Judge.
12 THE COURT: Mr. Glover.
13
14 VOIR DIRE EXAMINATION
15
16 BY MR. CURTIS GLOVER:
17 Q. Ms. Garrison, just a few comments to
18 you. I am going to go over some things that you have
19 already heard and they have talked with you about. As
20 Darlie Routier sits there right now, she is presumed to
21 be innocent.
22 A. Right.
23 Q. You have heard nothing, nobody has
24 heard anything. There simply has been an indictment
25 returned there. That was returned by a Grand Jury in
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2712

1 Dallas. That is a group of people that meet in secret,
2 and it's conducted by the district attorney. They can
3 hear from whomever they want to. They can hear 60
4 seconds worth of something read off of a paper. They can
5 read the newspaper and return an indictment if that is
6 what they want to do. Nobody knows what they did. It's
7 all done in secret.
8 People can be indicted and never even
9 know that they are even being investigated.
10 So, can you see the insignificance of
11 that document that is before you?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. It's merely a charging instrument, it
14 just says those words. It tells the district attorney
15 what he is going to have to prove in order to have her
16 found guilty. It informs her of what she is charged
17 with, and what she is going to have to answer to.
18 Can you see the importance of
19 presuming her to be innocent?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. Likewise, in connection with that
22 presumption of innocence, the law says that the burden of
23 proving this case is right over there.
24 Now, you understand what the burden of
25 proof means? It means they have brought the charge, they
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2713

1 made the accusation, they have to prove it. Does that
2 seem fair to you?
3 A. Right.
4 Q. That burden of proof never ever shifts
5 to this side of the room. It never comes to this table.
6 Darlie Routier does not have to do anything. She can sit
7 here silent throughout this entire trial and if she opted
8 to do that Judge Tolle would tell you that you are not to
9 consider that as any evidence at all against her, you are
10 not to consider it, talk about it, to do anything about
11 it.
12 In fact, if you go back to the jury
13 room and your other fellow jurors start talking about
14 what, "Well, I would have liked to have heard this, that,
15 or the other." It would be your job to say, "Judge Tolle
16 has told us we're not to consider that at all."
17 You know a lot of people are puzzled
18 about that rule. It is the presumption of innocence that
19 kind of protects her, it is her Fifth Amendment
20 privilege.
21 That is a rule in the Constitution
22 that says that she is presumed to be innocent, she has no
23 burden to prove anything and in that connection she may
24 sit silent throughout the entire affair.
25 Some people will say, "Well, shoot. I
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2714

1 think she ought to get up there and tell her side of it."
2 How do you feel about that?
3 A. That is her right. If she doesn't
4 want to talk about it, well that is up to her. I would
5 like to hear it, but maybe not.
6 Q. There may be nothing to talk about.
7 A. Right.
8 Q. There may be nothing to talk about.
9 Just think about the fact that that indictment is there
10 and you have read something in the newspaper, it may be
11 all phony-baloney.
12 A. Right.
13 Q. And just assume for the moment that in
14 God in His Heaven knows that she is innocent, there's
15 nothing she can do, all she can do is sit there silent
16 and shrug her shoulders.
17 That is the rule. No burden is on her
18 at all. Do you believe that?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. Okay. Can you follow it?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. Would you have any trouble judging the
23 credibility of witnesses that might testify in this case?
24 For example, if, judging the credibility means you
25 determine, the jury and you, if you are on the jury, you
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2715

1 determine who is telling the truth and who isn't. You
2 can disbelieve everything a witness says, you can believe
3 part of it, or you can believe all of it.
4 That is your job as a juror, to
5 believe or not believe what the witnesses say. To judge
6 those witnesses and tell whether or not they are telling
7 the truth. Can you do that?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. If a police officer should testify and
10 a non-police officer should testify and they testify
11 virtually to the same thing, but they have diametrically
12 or completely opposite notions about what happened in
13 that regard.
14 And you say, "Well, you know, I have
15 got to believe one or the other of them, because it's
16 critical to this entire case."
17 Would you have a tendency to believe a
18 police officer, simply because he is a police officer?
19 A. No. I hope I could believe a police
20 officer.
21 Q. You would hope that you could?
22 A. Yeah.
23 Q. Well, my question to you is: If you
24 had two witnesses and you didn't know which one to
25 believe and you wanted to give credibility to both of
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2716

1 them, but you had to make a choice, would you choose the
2 policeman just simply because he was a policeman?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. In other words, you would give some
5 credibility to him just simply because he was a police
6 officer? In other words, you're saying that policemen
7 never lie?
8 A. No, I'm not saying that.
9 Q. Well, that is kind of the way I heard
10 it.
11 A. Well, I would have to hear what they
12 have to say first.
13 Q. Well, I understand that. But I'm just
14 giving this to you as kind of a theoretical matter. You
15 know, if Jesus Christ was on one side testifying and a
16 police officer was on the other side testifying, would
17 you have a tendency to say, "I'm going to believe the
18 police officer --"
19 A. No.
20 Q. "-- simply because he is the
21 policeman"?
22 A. No.
23 Q. Can you see the point I am making
24 here?
25 A. Yes, I can.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2717

1 Q. In other words, you don't give
2 credibility to somebody's testimony simply because they
3 wear a uniform or they have a status or a title in our
4 society. You understand that?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. What is your answer? Are you going to
7 believe a cop just because he is a cop?
8 A. No.
9 Q. Can you be fair in this case?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. What have you heard about it, Ms.
12 Garrison?
13 A. Just what I have heard on the news
14 about this woman killing her two children in her Dallas
15 home.
16 Q. Do you believe everything you hear on
17 the radio?
18 A. No.
19 Q. You have had experience where what you
20 heard was not the truth at all?
21 A. Right.
22 Q. Just like the guy that was arrested
23 down in Georgia for bombing somebody; I believe his name
24 was Jewell. The FBI arrested him and investigated him
25 for months on end and then announced that he was
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2718

1 completely innocent after they destroyed his reputation.
2 Do you recall that?
3 A. No, I don't.
4 Q. You didn't read about that?
5 A. No.
6 Q. During the Olympics down there.
7 A. Oh, yeah. Okay.
8 Q. You read about him, that big, fat,
9 red-faced fellow on television?
10 A. Right.
11 Q. So, you know that accusations can be
12 brought against people that are false?
13 A. Oh, yes.
14 Q. Any reason why you can't be fair in
15 this case?
16 A. No.
17
18 MR. CURTIS GLOVER: I believe that's
19 all we have. Thank you, Judge.
20 THE COURT: All right. Thank you,
21 sir.
22 You may step outside briefly please.
23 Don't run away, ma'am, we're going to call you back here
24 in a minute.
25 THE PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Okay.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2719

1
2 (Whereupon, the prospective
3 juror was excused from the
4 room, and the following
5 proceedings were held,
6 outside of her presence
7 as follows:)
8
9 THE COURT: All right. The Court will
10 note into the record that Mr. Keith Birdsong does not
11 even come near the size of Mr. Richard Jewell.
12 MR. TOBY L. SHOOK: The State will
13 exercise a peremptory.
14 THE COURT: All right. Thank you.
15 Will you have Ms. Garrison come in here, please.
16
17 (Whereupon, the prospective
18 juror returned to the
19 room and the proceedings
20 were resumed as follows:)
21
22 THE COURT: Ma'am, we want to thank
23 you for your attendance, but your further attendance will
24 not be required.
25 THE PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Okay.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2720

1 THE COURT: You will be excused.
2 THE PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Okay.
3 THE COURT: Now, the trial isn't over
4 yet, it won't be over until probably the first part of
5 February. If you could not talk about anything going on
6 here today, it would be most appreciated.
7 THE PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Okay.
8 THE COURT: We have a gag order in
9 effect, I can impose monetary or jail time sanctions. I
10 am not threatening you, I just have to tell you that. We
11 have to try this case in the courtroom and not outside.
12 And I know people will be coming down asking you, "What
13 happened down there today?" Just tell them they asked
14 you some questions and you were excused, that's all you
15 need to do.
16 THE PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Okay.
17 THE COURT: When the trial is all over
18 you may talk or not talk as you see fit, it's strictly up
19 to you.
20 Thank you so much for coming. We
21 appreciate it.
22 THE PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Uh-huh.
23 (Witness nodding head affirmatively.)
24 THE COURT: Okay. All right. Who is
25 next? No one is next? That's it?
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2721

1 MS. SHERRI WALLACE: We have one
2 coming in at 9:00.
3 THE COURT: Two down, six to go.
4 MS. SHERRI WALLACE: Mr. Salzman is
5 coming at 9:00 and Mr. Hurt is out of town. His wife
6 didn't give him the message.
7 THE CLERK: We have got a Mr. Henry
8 Salzman.
9 THE COURT: All right. Let's bring
10 them in.
11 MR. S. PRESTON DOUGLASS, JR: What is
12 going to happen now? What are we doing today?
13 THE COURT: Pardon me?
14 MR. S. PRESTON DOUGLASS, JR: Are we
15 doing Lewis Hurt today?
16 THE COURT: We're supposed to have
17 eight coming in today.
18
19 (Whereupon, a short
20 recess was taken,
21 after which time,
22 the proceedings were
23 resumed on the record,
24 in the presence and
25 hearing of the defendant
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
2722

1 as follows:)
2
3 THE COURT: All right. This is Henry
4 Salzman, S-A-L-Z-M-A-N; is that the correct spelling,
5 sir?
6 THE PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes, sir.
7 THE COURT: Number 254 on the jury
8 list, number 83 on our list.
9 Raise your right hand, please.
10 Do you solemnly swear or affirm that
11 you will true answers make to all questions propounded to
12 you concerning your qualifications as a juror, so help
13 you God?
14
15 (Whereupon, the prospective
16 juror was duly sworn by the
17 Court to true answers make
18 to the questions propounded,
19 concerning qualifications, after
20 which time, the proceedings were
21 resumed as follows:)
22
23 THE PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes, sir.
24