Volume 14

1 IN THE CRIMINAL DISTRICT COURT NO. 3
2 DALLAS COUNTY, TEXAS
3
4
5
6 THE STATE OF TEXAS } NO. F-96-39973-J
7 VS: } & A-96-253
8 DARLIE LYNN ROUTIER } Kerr Co. Number
9
10
11
12
13 STATEMENT OF FACTS
14 JURY VOIR DIRE
15 INDIVIDUAL JURORS HEARING
16 VOL. 14 OF VOLS.
17 October 30, 1996
18 Wednesday
19
20
21
22
23
24
25

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 663

1 C A P T I O N
2
3
4 BE IT REMEMBERED THAT, on Wednesday, the 30th day of
5 October, 1996, in the Criminal District Court Number 3 of
6 Dallas County, Texas, the above-styled cause came on for
7 a hearing before the Hon. Mark Tolle, Judge of the
8 Criminal District Court No. 3, of Dallas County, Texas,
9 without a jury, and the proceedings were held, in open
10 court, in the City of Kerrville, Kerr County Courthouse,
11 Kerr County, Texas, and the proceedings were had as
12 follows:
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 664

1 A P P E A R A N C E S
2
3 HON. JOHN VANCE
4 Criminal District Attorney
5 Dallas County, Texas
6
7 BY: HON. GREG DAVIS
8 Assistant District Attorney
9 Dallas County, Texas
10
11 AND: HON. TOBY SHOOK
12 Assistant District Attorney
13 Dallas County, Texas
14
15 AND: HON. JOHN GRAU
16 Assistant District Attorney
17 Dallas County, Texas
18
19 AND: HON. SHERRI WALLACE
20 Assistant District Attorney
21 Dallas County, Texas
22
23 APPEARING FOR THE STATE OF TEXAS
24
25

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 665

1 HON. DOUGLAS D. MULDER
2 Attorney at Law
3 2650 Maxus Energy Tower
4 717 N. Harwood
5 Dallas, TX 75201
6
7 AND: HON. CURTIS GLOVER
8 Attorney at Law
9 2650 Maxus Energy Tower
10 717 N. Harwood

11 Dallas, TX 75201
12
13 AND: HON. RICHARD C. MOSTY
14 Attorney at Law
15 Wallace, Mosty, Machann, Jackson & Williams
16 820 Main Street, Suite 200
17 Kerrville, TX 78028
18
19 AND: HON. S. PRESTON DOUGLASS, JR.
20 Attorney at Law
21 Wallace, Mosty, Machann, Jackson & Williams
22 820 Main Street, Suite 200
23 Kerrville, TX 78028
24
25
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666

1 AND: HON. JOHN HAGLER
2 Attorney at Law

3 901 Main Street, Suite 3601
4 Dallas, TX 75202
5 ALL ATTORNEYS REPRESENTING THE
6 DEFENDANT: DARLIE ROUTIER
7 MR. HAGLER HANDLING THE APPEAL
8 AND:
9 HON. ALBERT D. PATILLO, III
10 Attorney at Law
11 820 Main Street, Suite 211
12 Kerrville, TX 78028
13 APPEARING FOR: Witness-
14 Detective Jimmy Patterson

15 only on one date in trial
16 AND:
17 HON. STEVEN J. PICKELL
18 Attorney at Law
19 620 Earl Garrett Street
20 Kerrville, TX 78028
21 APPEARING FOR: Witness

22 Officer Chris Frosch
23 only on one date in trial
24
25
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667

1 P R O C E E D I N G S
2
3 October 30th, 1996
4 Wednesday
5 8:30 a.m.
6
7 (Whereupon, the following
8 proceedings were held in

9 open court, in the presence
10 and hearing of the

11 defendant, being
12 represented by her attorneys
13 and the representatives of
14 the State of Texas,
15 as follows:)
16

17 THE COURT: All right. We're back on
18 the record in the Darlie Routier matter.
19 Let the record reflect that today is
20 October 30th, 1996, Wednesday, and we are continuing the
21 individual voir dire for prospective jurors.
22 And on the stand now, is Mr. Fred L.
23 Richardson.
24 Is that your name, sir?
25 THE PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes, sir.
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1 THE COURT: If you will raise your
2 right hand, please.
3 Do you solemnly swear or affirm you
4 will true answers make concerning your qualifications as
5 a juror to all the questions propounded to you in this
6 room or in any room or court to which you may be sent, so
7 help you God?
8 THE PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes, sir.
9
10 (Whereupon, the prospective

11 juror was duly sworn by the
12 Court to true answers make
13 to the questions propounded,

14 concerning qualifications, after
15 which time, the proceedings were
16 resumed as follows:)
17
18 THE COURT: Thank you. We have for
19 the State, Mr. Greg Davis.
20 MR. GREG DAVIS: Good morning.

21 THE PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Good morning.
22 THE COURT: Mr. Toby Shook.
23 MR. TOBY SHOOK: Good morning.
24 THE PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Good morning.
25 THE COURT: Ms. Sherri Wallace.
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1 MS. SHERRI WALLACE: Hi.
2 THE PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Hi.
3 THE COURT: For the defense, Mr. Doug
4 Mulder.
5 MR. DOUGLAS MULDER: Good morning.
6 THE PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Good morning.
7 THE COURT: Mr. Richard Mosty.
8 MR. RICHARD MOSTY: Good morning.
9 THE PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Hello.
10 THE COURT: Mr. Preston Douglass.
11 MR. PRESTON DOUGLASS: Good morning.
12 THE PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Good morning.
13 THE COURT: And the defendant is Mrs.
14 Darlie Routier there in the herringbone jacket.

15 Go ahead, please, Mr. Davis.
16 MR. GREG DAVIS: May it please the
17 Court?
18
19 Whereupon,
20
21 FRED LEE RICHARDSON,
22
23 was called as a prospective juror, for the purpose of
24 voir dire, having been first duly sworn by the Court to
25 speak the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the
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670

1 true, testified in open court, as follows:
2
3 VOIR DIRE EXAMINATION
4
5 BY MR. GREG DAVIS:
6 Q. Good morning, Mr. Richardson. How are
7 you?
8 A. Doing fine.
9 Q. Mr. Richardson, as the Judge has told
10 you, my name is Greg Davis, along with Mr. Shook and Ms.
11 Wallace, we represent the State of Texas in this case.
12 I'm going to be given about 30 or 45 minutes to talk with
13 you this morning.
14 During that time I am going to talk to
15 you about three general areas. I'm going to talk to you
16 about some of the answers that you have given to us on

17 your questionnaire.
18 I am going to talk to you about the
19 death penalty, and also, about some of the general laws
20 that apply in all criminal cases here in the State of
21 Texas.
22 Before I do, again, let me make our

23 position very clear. The State of Texas in this case is
24 actively seeking the death penalty. That means that we
25 want, and we fully expect that at the conclusion of the
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671

1 evidence in this case, that the young lady seated down
2 here at my far left, Darlie Lynn Routier, will be found

3 guilty of capital murder. That she will be sentenced to
4 die, and at some day in the future, she will be executed.
5 That is our goal in this case. That is what we want to
6 see happen at the conclusion of this case.
7 Now, obviously, she has five very fine
8 attorneys who oppose that position. That is why we're
9 picking a jury down here in Kerrville.
10 But at the conclusion of this case, we
11 will stand before you, and we are going to ask you to
12 answer special issues one and two, "yes" and "no," that
13 being the combination that requires Judge Tolle to impose
14 a sentence of death. That is what we're going to do at
15 the end of this case.
16 Now, if that occurs, and if Judge
17 Tolle does sentence Mrs. Routier to death, let me, just
18 briefly, tell you what is going to transpire, because I
19 think you have a right to know, if you are going to sit
20 on this jury.
21 If that occurs, then at some date in
22 the future, Mrs. Routier will be transferred to the Ellis
23 I Unit, she will be transferred to Huntsville. On the
24 date affixed for her death, she will be taken to the
25 Walls Unit where the death chamber is and she will be
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672

1 taken there no matter what she is saying or doing.
2 She may be professing her innocence.
3 She may be claiming that all twelve jurors down in
4 Kerrville, Judge Tolle, and the State of Texas, have all
5 conspired against her. She may be naming another person
6 as the true killer in this case. She may be praying.
7 She may be asking for forgiveness, but no matter what she
8 is doing, she is going to be taken to that death chamber.
9 And once there, if we were to look

10 inside it this morning, we would see a gurney with very
11 large, thick, leather straps attached to it. And the

12 guards will take her to that gurney, and they will place
13 her on that gurney, and they will strap her down, until
14 she is motionless and defenseless on that gurney.

15 Again, that is going to occur no
16 matter what is being said or done.
17 Now, beside that gurney will be a bag
18 suspended above her with a tube and a needle leading
19 down, and that bag contains poison.
20 Prison personnel will take that needle
21 and they will place it into her arm, and a guard or
22 personnel there in the prison system, will then open the
23 valve and allow that poison to course through that tube
24 into that needle and into her arm.
25 And when that happens, any number of
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673

1 things may happen. Her eyes might roll back in her head,
2 she may gurgle, she may grow short of breath. But within
3 15 minutes, Darlie Lynn Routier is going to lay there
4 dead on that gurney.
5 And, I guess, for lack of any better
6 description, she will have been put to death much like we
7 put a dog to death here in Texas. And her loved ones,
8 her family, her friends will be then allowed to take her
9 body for burial.
10 Now, there are a lot of people that

11 come down here, and I have talked to a lot of them, and
12 they tell me, "Well, you know, I am really in favor of
13 the death penalty, in the abstract. I think it's
14 something that we need. Something that is good, it is
15 necessary for this State."
16 But if you will look at Mrs. Routier,
17 she is not abstract. She is a human being just like you
18 and me. And I can assure you, the last thing she wants
19 is to die on that gurney.
20 Now, let me just ask you, Mr.

21 Richardson, is this something that you feel you could do?
22 Or is this something that you feel, that after you have
23 taken a look at the situation and thought about it, you
24 feel like you would rather us pass to the next juror?
25 Because if you say that, I will do the same thing to you
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674

1 that I say to everyone else. I respect your honesty.
2 Because I have had a number of people say that to me in
3 the past.
4 How do you feel about participating in
5 this case?
6 A. I don't have any problem.
7 Q. Okay. You were laughing as I was
8 talking about some portions of that. Why were you
9 laughing about my description of that? What did you find
10 humorous about that?
11 A. I don't remember.
12 Q. You indicated that you knew one of the
13 three court-appointed attorneys: Mr. Withrow, Parks, or
14 Mr. Huff. Which one of those individuals do you know?
15 A. I beg your pardon?
16 Q. Okay. All right. I'm sorry. Instead
17 of a "yes," that is actually a "no." You didn't know any
18 of the court-appointed attorneys previously, did you?
19 A. No.
20 Q. Okay. You had indicated on your

21 questionnaire that you thought that there were some
22 crimes which called for the death penalty, "Solely

23 because of their facts and circumstances, regardless of
24 whether or not the guilty person has committed prior
25 violent acts." And you indicated "yes"; is that right?
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1 A. That is correct.
2 Q. Can you give me an idea of what types
3 of offenses that you are thinking of? What examples come
4 to your mind?
5 A. Murder.
6 Q. Sir?
7 A. Violent murder.
8 Q. Okay. And any particular set of
9 circumstances?
10 A. It seems like to me most of the people
11 that I have seen through the media in the last few years
12 that have received the death penalty, it seemed like they
13 deserved it.
14 Q. Okay. Did you follow the Susan Smith
15 case in South Carolina?

16 A. Yes.
17 Q. All right. What were your feelings
18 about that case?
19 A. It -- from a professional standpoint,
20 it seemed very reasonable to me. That that type of
21 personality could commit that kind of crime.
22 Q. All right. And when you talk about
23 that type of personality, what are you talking about?

24 A. Somebody that is -- appeared to me to
25 be very narcissistic and self-centered and concerned
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1 about their own interest.
2 Q. All right. How about the outcome in
3 that case?
4
5 MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY: Your Honor, I
6 don't think it is appropriate to be asking about the
7 outcome and what this person feels about the outcome of
8 another case.
9 THE COURT: Well, overruled. I will
10 let him go ahead. Go ahead.
11
12 BY MR. GREG DAVIS:
13 Q. What did you think about the outcome,
14 the life sentence that was imposed on Susan Smith as
15 opposed to the death penalty?
16 A. I think that was probably -- it is six
17 of one, half dozen of the other. Without knowing Susan
18 Smith, or knowing whether she had any remorse or any
19 guilt about it, if she did have remorse and guilt about
20 it, it could be worse than death.
21 Q. Okay. Let me ask you, also, you had
22 indicated that you have been a victim of a crime; is that
23 correct?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. All right. Can you give me just some
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677

1 of the details there? You, personally? Or someone that
2 you know?
3 A. Theft and burglary.
4 Q. All right.
5 A. Nothing violent.
6 Q. Okay. Tell me a little bit about your
7 son's case where you indicated he was on probation out of
8 Bexar County for burglary of a habitation?
9 A. That's right.
10 Q. All right. When did that occur?
11 A. When he was 17.
12 Q. All right. And how long ago was that?
13 A. He is 26 now.
14 Q. Okay. How did you feel about the way
15 he was treated in that case?
16 A. I felt very badly about it.
17 Q. All right.
18 A. He cooperated totally with the
19 Sheriff's Department, went down and talked to them. Made
20 restitution as far as the things that he and the other
21 two boys took, they took everything back.
22 Two years later -- he was no-billed -- Steve
23 Hill, big in Bexar County, attorney, and they issued a
24 warrant. At the time he was living in New Mexico, and
25 was trying to go to school, and was holding down a job.
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1 They picked him up and threw him in jail.
2 We brought him back to Texas. He
3 wanted to continue school and he needed to continue his
4 job, so he pleaded no contest and accepted a plea
5 bargain.
6 Q. How did that leave you feeling about
7 the criminal justice system?

8 A. It sucked.
9 Q. Feelings changed about the criminal
10 justice system?
11 A. Not much.
12 Q. Okay. How about law enforcement, the
13 district attorney, Sheriff's department; same feeling?
14 A. Seems to me that most of our people
15 involved in law enforcement and prosecuting cases are

16 real black and white, that they are adversarial. And,
17 oftentimes, I feel like we need to be protected from the
18 protectors.
19 Q. Well, you know, I am part of that
20 criminal justice system, and I am part of the people that
21 make up law enforcement. Just bluntly, do you think I
22 suck? Or do you think that we suck in this case?
23 A. Well, I think that you were elected,
24 and I think that we have a vote and that we can unelect
25 you. But knowing you personally, no, I don't.
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1
2 THE COURT: Well, actually the three
3 district attorneys here are appointed, they are Assistant
4 District Attorneys. The Dallas County District Attorney
5 is elected.
6 In Texas, it's the County Attorney, or
7 the District Attorney, which is a sole-elected official,
8 and then the assistants are merely appointed by him.
9 None of these ladies and gentlemen are
10 elected officials.
11
12 BY MR. GREG DAVIS:
13 Q. You know, I noted, and I listened, you
14 know, and one thing I always tell people, there are not
15 any right or wrong answers. I mean, everybody has had

16 different experiences. I am sure that you have had that
17 with clients and other people that you have worked with.
18 And your perspective is certainly valid just as mine is
19 from my viewpoint about the criminal justice system.

20 But, I guess, it gets down to this:
21 We're looking for people who can come in here with a
22 clean slate, more or less. I mean, that is what both
23 sides deserve.
24 We're looking for people who, maybe

25 their life experiences have been such that when they come
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680

1 in here, they can look at us and they don't have any
2 preconceived ideas about what we stand for, what we are
3 doing. And the same thing for the defense over here. We
4 don't want somebody that comes in with a life experience
5 where they are suspect to what these individuals over
6 here are doing, too.
7 And that is the way this system is
8 supposed to work. And, frankly, not everybody can come
9 in here and say that is the case. Not everybody is
10 qualified to sit on this jury because of their
11 experiences.
12 And I just need to ask you, because of
13 the experience that you have had with your son's case,

14 which was, obviously, a very strong experience for you:
15 Do you feel like, in this case, that you might be

16 somewhat biased against the State in this case?
17 A. I don't know how I could not have
18 emotion and feelings about my past experiences.
19 Q. Is it going to be very difficult or
20 impossible for you to put those feelings aside?

21 A. No, sir, it's not going to be
22 impossible to do that.
23 Q. Well, are those feelings -- do you
24 think that those feelings are going to play a part in
25 your perception of police officers, for instance?
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1 Because we're going to have a number of police officers
2 testify in this case.
3 A. They would certainly play a part, yes.
4 Q. All right. And, in what way would
5 they play a part?
6 A. (No response.)
7 Q. Do you feel like that you might start
8 a police officer a little bit behind another witness?
9 A. Probably.
10 Q. Just the way that you judge him?
11 A. Probably.
12 Q. Do you think it might be a little bit
13 more difficult for him to convince you that he is telling
14 you the truth, as opposed to, say a civilian off the
15 street who is not part of law enforcement?
16
17 MR. DOUGLAS MULDER: Judge, I think he
18 ought to tell the juror first, that they are to judge --
19 the law requires that they judge all witnesses by the
20 same standard.
21 MR. GREG DAVIS: Judge, I am going to
22 object to this.
23 THE COURT: All right. Both you
24 gentlemen just sit down. Thank you.
25 MR. GREG DAVIS: Yes, sir.
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1 THE COURT: Ask your questions, and
2 then you will get to ask your questions, Mr. Mulder. We
3 got 45 minutes a side.
4
5 BY MR. GREG DAVIS:
6 Q. Go ahead, if you would. If you would
7 answer that question.
8 A. I think, if I were to be on the jury,
9 that I would work real hard to be objective, but I don't
10 think that I could make my feelings go away, and I don't
11 think that I could make my biases go away. They are a
12 part of who I am.
13 Q. Okay. And that is regardless of
14 whether -- as Mr. Mulder was stating, the law requires
15 jurors to put their biases aside. The law requires that
16 they judge all witnesses the same. But, frankly, there
17 are people who come down here and say, "I just simply

18 can't do that." That happens. Is that what you are
19 saying to me?
20 A. I'm saying that I would attempt to
21 follow the law to the best of my ability.
22 Q. All right. But you are also --
23 A. But it is also like asking me to not
24 think about an elephant.
25 Q. Right. You would try, but in all
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1 honesty, you are telling me that you think you would have
2 a very difficult time doing that in this case?
3 A. It's a part of me, yes. It is a
4 strong part of me. My feelings are very strong.
5 Q. Okay. And those are feelings that, as
6 I understand it, would go to your ability to listen to
7 police or other members of law enforcement, and it would
8 make it difficult for you to judge their testimony like

9 you would a member who is not a member of law
10 enforcement; is that right?
11 A. I think my feelings probably extend
12 even wider than that, even toward all government.
13 Q. Okay. So, that if, for instance, in
14 this case, something I might say, I mean, as a part of
15 law enforcement or as a part of government, if you will,
16 an argument that we may make on this side of the table,
17 as opposed to an argument that you may hear from the

18 defense attorneys who are not a part of government, do
19 you think that your feelings may color the way that you
20 listen to us, as opposed to the way that you listen to
21 the defense attorneys?
22 A. Well, they are affecting my feelings
23 right now as I am having this conversation with you.

24 Q. Okay. And what kind of feelings is
25 this engendering in you?
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1 A. Well, I feel put on the spot and I
2 feel defensive.
3 Q. Do you think then that because both
4 sides are going to be arguing, we are going to be saying
5 things during this trial, do you think that those
6 feelings then might affect the way that you would filter
7 out what we would say to you?
8 A. Yes, sir, I do.
9 Q. And do you think that you might be
10 less likely, because of your feelings, to accept what we
11 say to you in the case, as opposed to what the defense
12 attorneys might say to you in the case?
13 A. As I have stated, I will try to be
14 fair and objective, irregardless of my feelings.
15 Q. And what I'm trying to get at is your
16 feelings, you know. Do you think that your feelings
17 might affect you to the point where if I say something,
18 let's say I say something is white, and the other side
19 says something is black, just to kind of give you a

20 concrete example here, do you think because of your
21 feelings and your experiences, that you might be a little
22 bit less likely to believe that something is white as
23 opposed to something being back?
24
25 MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY: Your Honor, I'm
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685

1 going to object to that because neither the Assistant
2 District Attorney or any of the defense lawyers are going
3 to testify in this case. They are not going to judge our
4 credibility. Now, he is going to be --
5 THE COURT: I understand. I
6 understand what you are saying, and I'll certainly take

7 it into consideration. But he just asked him a generic
8 question. Go ahead, answer the question.
9 THE PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes, sir, I

10 think there is certainly a possibility of that happening.
11
12 BY MR. GREG DAVIS:
13 Q. And, Mr. Richardson, I know that on

14 the questionnaire we asked you certain questions as to
15 whether you strongly agreed or strongly disagreed, and
16 one of them that you -- one of them that we asked you to
17 answer was: "I trust the criminal justice system in the
18 State of Texas." And that went from, strongly agree to
19 agree to disagree to strongly disagree, and don't know.
20 And you circled strongly disagree. Do you still feel

21 that same way?
22 A. Which question was that?
23 Q. That was the one: "I trust the
24 criminal justice system in the State of Texas?"
25 A. And I said I strongly disagree?
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686

1 Q. Yes, sir.
2 A. That is true.
3 Q. You had indicated, also, that you had
4 heard certain things about the case. And you were nice
5 enough to tell us that you -- radio in Dallas; TV,
6 Dallas, San Antonio; newspapers, Dallas, San Antonio and

7 Kerrville. Can you tell me what you have heard about the
8 case?
9 A. Well, I travel to Dallas quite often,
10 and to Fort Worth. And I stay up there and I am an avid
11 newspaper reader, and I listen to the radio, mostly news,
12 not music. And what I have heard, primarily, is negative
13 about the defendant.
14 Q. Okay. And what opinions, if any, have
15 you formed because of what you read in the newspaper or
16 heard on radio or seen on television?
17 A. From what all they have put in the
18 media, you would think that she was guilty.
19 Q. Okay. And is that what you think, as
20 a result of what you have heard and seen in the media?

21 A. Well, I don't have an opinion at this
22 point in time, but from what I have heard, the

23 information I have heard, has all been negative.
24 Q. Anything in particular that stands
25 out, that you feel is particularly negative?
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1 A. They talked about the evidence of
2 there being dust on a windowsill; and not being footsteps
3 in the flower bed or in the back yard where there could

4 have been places for an intruder to have made footsteps;
5 they talked about the lack of evidence to support her
6 story about an intruder.
7 Q. If you would, if you would look at
8 question number 1 up here, and if you would just read
9 that to yourself, as well as question number 2, and let
10 me know when you have finished.
11 A. Okay.
12 Q. Okay. Question number 1, you can see
13 that we are talking about the future there, trying to

14 predict the future behavior or actions of the defendant
15 there. And let me just ask you, some of these words, how
16 you look at them, how you define them: Probability; what
17 does that mean to you in the context of question number
18 1, Mr. Richardson?
19 A. Probability is a statistical guess, I
20 would assume.
21 Q. If I had --
22 A. Toward something.
23 Q. If I had a scale of zero to 100, with
24 zero being the slightest chance ever of something
25 occurring, 100 being absolute certainty. On that scale,
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688

1 where would you place probability in the context of
2 question number 1?
3 A. Above 50 percent, 50 percent would be
4 chance.
5 Q. How about society, how do you look at
6 society?
7 A. Like the blind man trying to describe
8 an elephant, it's got many components.
9 Q. Okay. Is it everybody to you, or are
10 there some people that are excluded as part of society?
11 A. No, society means everybody.
12 Q. Okay. When you look at special issue
13 number 1, you have to understand that you have already

14 found this individual, in order to get to question number
15 1 in this case, you will have already found that the
16 defendant intentionally took the life of a child younger
17 than six years of age. Okay, that is already a given.
18 You have already found that to be true beyond a
19 reasonable doubt.
20 Now, when you look at special issue
21 number 1, there is some people that when they get to that
22 they say, "Well, if I have already found someone
23 intentionally killed a child younger than six years of
24 age, when I get to question number 1, that is going to be
25 'yes.' Anybody that would do that, in my mind, would
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1 constitute a continuing threat to society." Do you see
2 what I mean?
3 How do you look at question number 1?
4 A. Well, a continuing threat either would
5 reflect a pattern of behavior or it would reflect the
6 violent nature of someone's character, that their
7 potential for violence is very high.
8 Q. Okay. Is there going to be anything
9 that you would require to be shown to you before you
10 could answer question number 1 "yes"?
11 A. Certainly evidence in regards to the
12 defendant's character and personality.
13 Q. Okay. Like what?
14 A. Like whether they are a person that
15 doesn't have much of a conscience, or a person that is so
16 self-centered and narcissistic that they don't care about
17 other people. That they only care about themselves.
18 That they will use any means to obtain a goal.
19 Q. All right. If you don't have that
20 evidence, if that is not shown to you, do you feel like
21 you could answer question number 1?
22 A. Well, you see, I balance it between
23 probability of continuing to be a threat versus an
24 impulsive act. If it was an impulsive act or a
25 spontaneous act of passion versus a premeditated, thought
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1 out, or whether it was done while someone was in a mental
2 state of not knowing what they were doing. Those were
3 the things that I would look on both sides.
4 Q. All right. So, if you are shown
5 premeditation, for instance, if you are shown some sort

6 of a mental state that shows you that this is something
7 other than an impulsive act, do I understand you to say,
8 if that is shown to you, then you can answer question
9 number 1?
10
11 MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY: Your Honor,
12 that is asking impermissably for a commitment from this
13 juror as what they will or will not do.
14 THE COURT: Sustain the objection.
15 Let's move on.
16 MR. GREG DAVIS: I'm sorry. What I'm
17 trying to do, is I'm trying to determine whether this

18 juror will require the State to show certain, specific
19 things in order to --
20 THE COURT: Just ask him that.
21 MR. GREG DAVIS: Yes, sir.
22
23 BY MR. GREG DAVIS:
24 Q. Let me just rephrase that and ask
25 you --
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1
2 THE COURT: Just rephrase it.
3 MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY: Your Honor,
4 I'll object to that because he has already been asked and
5 the witness (sic) went through and gave a little litany
6 of things that might weigh on his --
7 THE COURT: All right. I am aware of
8 that, I'll let him ask one more time. Go ahead. Let's

9 move on.
10
11 BY MR. GREG DAVIS:
12 Q. Mr. Richardson, let me just ask you:
13 What things will you require the State of Texas to show
14 you in order for you to answer question number 1 "yes"?
15
16 MR. DOUGLAS MULDER: Judge, that is
17 not proper. That is an attempt to pledge the venireman.

18 He can't ask him what he would require, totally improper.
19 THE COURT: Why don't you rephrase it?
20 Let's rephrase it.
21
22 BY MR. GREG DAVIS:
23 Q. Mr. Richardson, will you require the
24 State of Texas to show you any particular thing on
25 question number 1 before you can answer "yes"? And if
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1 so, what will that be?
2
3 MR. DOUGLAS MULDER: Judge, the
4 question is in English and it speaks for itself, he will
5 require them to prove it beyond a reasonable doubt.
6 THE COURT: I sustain the objection.
7 I sustain the objection.
8
9 BY MR. GREG DAVIS:
10 Q. Mr. Richardson, do you think that

11 question number 1 could be answered? There are some
12 people that think it can't be answered.
13 A. Yes, sir, I think it can be answered.
14 Q. Do you think it can be answered beyond
15 a reasonable doubt?
16 A. Yes, sir.
17 Q. Okay. And what types of things -- are
18 you going to require anything?
19
20 MR. DOUGLAS MULDER: Judge, he is

21 going to require them to prove it beyond a reasonable
22 doubt.
23 THE COURT: Well, I think he is

24 phrasing the question correctly. Are you going to
25 require them to prove anything beyond a reasonable doubt?
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1 He is not asking what he is going to require. Go ahead.
2
3 BY MR. GREG DAVIS:
4 Q. Are you going to require the State of
5 Texas to prove anything, specifically, before you can
6 answer that question beyond a reasonable doubt?
7 A. Prove that the question is true.
8 Q. What do you mean "true"?
9 A. That the person is a continuing threat
10 to society.
11 Q. When you look at question number 1,
12 after finding the defendant guilty of capital murder, the
13 law says you are supposed to start that presuming it to
14 be a 100 percent "no." Do you think that you will be
15 able to do that in this case?
16 A. I'm sorry. Would you repeat the
17 question?
18 Q. The law requires you to start your --
19 look at question number 1 --
20
21 MR. DOUGLAS MULDER: Judge, that is an
22 improper statement of law. There is no such law, and no
23 such requirement.
24 THE COURT: Overruled. Go ahead. It
25 is all right. Go ahead. Ask that question.
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1 MR. DOUGLAS MULDER: Are you saying
2 that the law requires him to start at zero? Or assume
3 that it is untrue?
4 THE COURT: He has phrased the

5 question correctly. I don't think he is asking that. Go
6 ahead.
7
8 BY MR. GREG DAVIS:
9 Q. The law says that when you look at
10 question number 1, when you begin your deliberations, you
11 are to presume that to be "no," 100 percent "no." And

12 I'm asking you: Can you do that? Or are you going to
13 feel like that should be -- that you are going to be
14 leaning toward a "yes" answer on question number 1,

15 because you have found this defendant guilty of killing a
16 child younger than six years of age?
17 A. I don't see much difference in regards
18 to age.
19 Q. Okay.
20 A. To determine that factor.
21 Q. Okay. Well, just leave aside the
22 issue of age then. How are you going to be looking at
23 question number 1 when you start your deliberations, when
24 you start looking at question number 1? Are you going to
25 be at 100 percent "no"? Is it going to be somewhere in
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1 the middle? I'm just trying to figure out how you are
2 going to look at question number 1 after you have found a
3 defendant guilty of capital murder.
4
5 MR. DOUGLAS MULDER: Judge, this whole
6 thing begs the question. The issue is clear, the way
7 it's written. And is the Court going to charge in
8 accordance with what the --
9 THE COURT: The Court is going to
10 write the Charge appropriately to what the evidence and
11 testimony requires. But I think Mr. Davis is asking this
12 question in a correct manner concerning question number
13 1. Let's go ahead.
14 THE PROSPECTIVE JUROR: If I have
15 found the defendant guilty?
16
17 BY MR. GREG DAVIS:
18 Q. Yes, sir.
19 A. Then I would presuppose that there is
20 a bias toward the continuing threat. If you can do it
21 once, then you can do it again.
22 Q. Okay.
23 A. If you had never done it, then the
24 odds of you doing it would be less.
25 Q. So, if you found someone guilty of
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1 capital murder, you are going to have that same
2 presupposition or bias toward a continuing threat to
3 society; is that right?
4 A. That's correct.
5 Q. Let's look at question number 2. You
6 see there is no burden of proof on question number 2. It
7 is a different type of question. There is a burden on
8 number 1, but there is not a burden on either side on
9 question number 2.
10 Now, some people have told us that if
11 they find someone guilty of capital murder, and if they
12 have found that that person would constitute a continuing
13 threat to society -- so you would have to have done both
14 of those before you get down to question number 2. Some
15 folks have told us, "No problem, I could still answer
16 question number 2 'yes,' change death to life."
17 Some people have told us, "No, I
18 cannot do that. I would have a moral or a conscientious
19 problem doing that. If guilty, and I think they are
20 going to be a threat to society in the future, I am not
21 going to be able to say 'yes' to question number 2,
22 knowing that that is going to change a death sentence to
23 a life sentence."
24 Your feelings about question number 2?
25 A. It depends upon what the mitigating
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1 circumstances are, or the circumstances that warrant a
2 life imprisonment. I'm not clear in my mind right now
3 what those would be.

4 Q. Okay. Well, there is no laundry list.
5 It's basically whatever a juror wants them to be. You
6 see, though, it has to be sufficient. That is a key word
7 there. Is there a sufficient mitigating circumstance?
8 Not is there a mitigating circumstance, but is it
9 sufficient to rise to such a level to change a death
10 sentence to a life sentence. See what I mean?
11 A. Uh-huh. (Witness nodding head
12 affirmatively.)
13 Q. So that is what the law really
14 contemplates that you do. You take a look at every fact
15 and circumstance in the case, decide whether it is
16 sufficient, change death to life, and then you answer
17 that question accordingly. Do you feel like you could do
18 that?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. I need to ask you a couple of other
21 questions regarding information that you have given on
22 your questionnaire, if you don't mind.
23 You had indicated that you had a "yes"
24 answer to having undergone counseling or treatment for
25 emotional or psychiatric behavior or substance abuse
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1 programs; and you had a "yes" answer, I believe. Can you
2 just tell me a little bit about that?
3 A. I am a psychotherapist.
4 Q. Uh-huh. (Witness nodding head
5 affirmatively.)
6 A. And, as a part of the process of being
7 a psychotherapist, you are in therapy.
8 Q. All right. Okay. You had also
9 indicated, "I am a recovering substance abuser."
10 A. That's correct.
11 Q. All right. Can you give me some
12 details there?
13 A. I came home from Viet Nam with a
14 substance abuse problem.
15 Q. All right. And underwent counseling
16 for that?
17 A. No, sir. I never underwent counseling
18 for it. I started going to Alcoholics Anonymous.
19 Q. How do you think that our personal
20 freedoms have been controlled or taken away?
21 A. Too much government.
22 Q. Any examples, any particular things?
23 I mean, I may agree with a lot of what you are saying
24 here. I mean, I think there is way too much government
25 too. But anything that stands out in your mind?
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1 A. It seems to me that in the last few
2 years that most people are guilty until proven innocent.
3 And that is the main problem that I have with the justice
4 system, is that people are having to prove that they are
5 innocent, and they are assumed guilty. I see that in
6 state agencies, such as Child Protective Services. I see
7 it in the legal system, civil cases and criminal cases.
8 Oftentimes people are tried in the media.
9 Q. You know there has been lot of press
10 on this case?
11 A. There sure has.
12 Q. Do you feel like that that may be the
13 case here too?
14 A. Uh-huh. (Witness nodding head
15 affirmatively.) I mean I heard one article -- or read
16 one article where they were polling people in the
17 defendant's hometown. And people were offering their
18 opinion about whether they thought she was guilty or not.
19 So it's a public opinion poll on whether she is guilty or
20 not, which I think is inappropriate.
21 Q. In this case then you feel like Mrs.
22 Routier is -- do you think that she is in a position
23 where she is going to have to prove her innocence?
24 A. I certainly do.
25 Q. Do you think that is unfair to her?
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1 A. Yes.
2 Q. You had indicated that you had trouble
3 getting the police to come to crime scenes on occasions.
4 Are those to the burglary and thefts that you have
5 suffered?
6 A. That's correct.
7 Q. Did they actually come to the scene at
8 some point?
9 A. No, sir.
10 Q. And how recently was that?
11 A. Well, here in Kerrville, we did get
12 them to come to a crime scene. In Houston, we could not
13 get them to come, that was about 10 years ago.
14 Q. Mr. Richardson, my time is about up
15 with you.
16
17 THE COURT: You have seven -- eight
18 minutes left.
19
20 BY MR. GREG DAVIS:
21 Q. And I want to tell you, I don't envy
22 you sitting up there and facing a bunch of lawyers this
23 early in the morning, and having to talk about your
24 personal life. I wouldn't want to do it either. But I
25 appreciate the fact that you have tried to answer my
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1 questions.
2 You have been responsive to me, and I
3 think you have been honest with me, and I appreciate

4 that. I always respect people's opinions, even if I
5 disagree with them. So I appreciate you talking to me.
6 Is there anything that maybe I have

7 not gone over that you think that we need to go over? Is
8 there something I said to you that didn't make sense? I
9 spoke nearly 40 minutes. I bet you there is at least one
10 thing I said that didn't make sense. But is there
11 anything that you feel like we need to talk about before
12 I pass you to Mr. Mulder so he can question you a little
13 bit?
14 A. No, sir.
15 Q. All right. I thank you.
16
17 THE COURT: Thank you, Mr. Davis.
18 Who will speak for the defense? Mr.
19 Mulder?
20 MR. DOUGLAS MULDER: Yes, sir.
21 THE COURT: All right.
22
23 VOIR DIRE EXAMINATION
24
25 BY MR. DOUGLAS D. MULDER:
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1 Q. Mr. Richardson, I just need to visit
2 with you a little bit, and discuss with you a few rather

3 fundamental principles of law, and make sure we're on the
4 same wave length. And I am not going to hopefully waste
5 your time.
6 The Judge will tell you that the true
7 bill of indictment is simply the pleading and paper by
8 which the defendant is brought into this particular
9 Court. It is absolutely no evidence of her guilt. You
10 can appreciate that?
11 A. Yes, sir.
12 Q. Okay. It simply advises her of the

13 charges against her, so that she can prepare a defense.
14 Just as it informs you as a juror of what the State must
15 prove beyond all reasonable doubt. Fair enough?
16 A. Yes, sir.
17 Q. The law says that the burden of proof
18 is on the State to establish the guilt of the accused.
19 Another way of saying, whoever does the accusing, has to
20 do the proving. Does that make sense to you?
21 A. Yes.

22 Q. The law says that the yardstick or the
23 standard by which their proof is gauged or measured is
24 beyond all reasonable doubt. You can appreciate that?
25 A. Yes, sir.
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1 Q. The law says that if you, as jurors,
2 have a reasonable doubt, you must resolve that doubt in
3 favor of the accused. That makes sense to you?
4 A. Yes, sir.

5 Q. It doesn't make any difference whether
6 there is one doubt or 10 doubts or 21 doubts or 101
7 doubts. All doubts must be resolved in favor of the
8 accused. You can do that?
9 A. Yes, sir.
10 Q. The law says that at this stage of the
11 proceedings that Darlie Routier is presumed to be
12 innocent. Okay?
13 A. Yes, sir.
14 Q. I'm really not so much -- you know,

15 oftentimes it's difficult to walk into a courtroom and
16 not say to yourself, look at the defendant and say to
17 yourself, "I wonder what he has done. Or I wonder what
18 she has done." I mean, it's only natural, you see the
19 Jugde here, you see the prosecutors here, the defense

20 lawyers here. And I'm not so concerned, really, I guess,
21 with you presuming that she is -- or a juror in the
22 abstract, presuming that she is innocent; so much as I am
23 concerned with the fact that they might presume her
24 guilty.
25 What I want to do is start out -- I
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1 don't need a head start. I just want to start out even.
2 I don't want anybody coming to court presuming that she
3 has done something, presuming that she is guilty. So,
4 like I said, we don't need a head start, we just want to
5 start out even. You don't have any problem with that?
6 A. No, sir.
7 Q. With respect to the procedure, the
8 State goes first because they have the burden of proof.
9 If I had my druthers, I would prefer to go first. I

10 think first impressions are mighty important. It will
11 take discipline on your part to, you know, kind of, not
12 make up your mind until we get a chance at bat. Fair
13 enough?
14 A. Yes, sir.
15 Q. You can do that?
16 A. Yes, sir.
17 Q. As a juror, it will be your duty and

18 your responsibility to determine what the facts are. The
19 jury is the sole and exclusive judge of the facts proved,
20 the credibility of the witnesses, and the weight that you
21 want to assign to the testimony of each witness. In
22 other words, you can embrace and believe 100 percent of
23 what one witness tells you; and absolutely nothing of
24 what another one tells you. You can appreciate that?
25 A. Yes, sir.
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1 Q. The facts are what you say they are.
2 Let me give you an example, and I'm going to go to the
3 extreme to make my point. Okay?
4 A. Okay.
5 Q. Let's just assume, for example, that

6 you are sitting on a jury down in Austin, over in Austin.
7 And let's say it's a federal -- let's say it's a bank
8 robbery case. And that you are sitting there on the
9 jury, and a witness comes in and testifies that they were
10 there on the town square at high noon, and their
11 attention was attracted to the bank by a gunshot. And
12 they looked over there and saw someone coming out of the
13 bank, and they had a sack of money in one hand, and they
14 had a gun in the other hand, and they had a mask on. And
15 they left the bank and they got into a black stretch

16 limousine and headed south toward San Antonio. Okay?
17 A. Yes, sir.
18 Q. Suppose the next witness takes the
19 stand and swears to tell the truth and says that, "I,
20 too, was in town square. And I heard a gunshot and my
21 attention was attracted to the bank. And I looked over

22 there and I saw a man coming out of the bank, and he had
23 a sack of money in one hand, and he had a gun in the
24 other hand. He had a mask on and he got on a white horse
25 and headed north toward Dallas."
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1 And that creates in your mind and in
2 the minds of the other jurors a reasonable doubt as to
3 the method of escape. Perhaps, maybe it goes to
4 identification. Okay?

5 But you have a reasonable doubt as to
6 whether it was a white horse headed north toward Dallas,
7 or it was a black stretch limousine headed south toward
8 San Antonio. If it benefits the defendant to resolve

9 that doubt and say that it was a black stretch limousine,
10 you would do that. You see? Then it is a black stretch
11 limousine from then on.
12 You see, as a juror, your power and

13 authority is really awesome. Now, if the Judge -- the
14 Judge is the judge of the law. You don't have to know
15 any law to serve on a jury, and probably a whole heck of

16 a lot better off if you don't know a lot of law. Because
17 he will give you all the law that is a applicable to the
18 particular case in a written charge, and you will have
19 that law to go back and it will govern your
20 deliberations.
21 But, if the Judge makes a mistake with
22 respect to the law, we can appeal to a higher court and
23 get it corrected. But there is no appeal on the facts.
24 You see?
25 A. Yes, sir.
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1 Q. That is one reason that the benefit of
2 the doubt goes to the defendant, because there is no
3 appeal on the facts. I mean, from that point forward,
4 it's either a white horse headed north, or a black
5 stretch limousine headed south, and no changing it. You
6 can't wish it away or wash it away. Fair enough?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. You are telling us that if you have
9 reasonable doubts, you can resolve those doubts in favor
10 of the defendant. It doesn't make any difference whether
11 it is 1 or 21 or 101; is that right?
12 A. Yes, sir.
13 Q. Okay. You would, Mr. Richardson, do
14 your dead-level best to be fair?
15 A. Yes, sir.
16
17 MR. DOUGLAS MULDER: I believe that's
18 all we have. Thank you.
19 THE COURT: All right. You stated

20 earlier some reservations about the way your son was
21 treated.
22 THE PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes, sir.