Volume 12

1 IN THE CRIMINAL DISTRICT COURT NO. 3
2 DALLAS COUNTY, TEXAS
3
4
5
6 THE STATE OF TEXAS } NO. F-96-39973-J
7 VS: } & A-96-253
8 DARLIE LYNN ROUTIER } Kerr Co. Number
9
10
11
12
13 STATEMENT OF FACTS
14 JURY VOIR DIRE
15 INDIVIDUAL JURORS HEARING
16 VOL. 12 OF VOLS.
17 October 28, 1996
18 Monday
19
20
21
22
23
24
25

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 126

1 C A P T I O N
2
3
4 BE IT REMEMBERED THAT, on Monday, the 28th day of
5 October, 1996, in the Criminal District Court Number 3 of
6 Dallas County, Texas, the above-styled cause came on for
7 a hearing before the Hon. Mark Tolle, Judge of the
8 Criminal District Court No. 3, of Dallas County, Texas,
9 without a jury, and the proceedings were held, in open
10 court, in the City of Kerrville, Kerr County Courthouse,
11 Kerr County, Texas, and the proceedings were had as
12 follows:
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 127

1 A P P E A R A N C E S
2
3
4 HON. JOHN VANCE
5 Criminal District Attorney
6 Dallas County, Texas
7
8 BY: HON. TOBY SHOOK
9 Assistant District Attorney
10 Dallas County, Texas
11
12 AND:
13 HON. JOHN GRAU
14 Assistant District Attorney
15 Dallas County, Texas
16
17 AND:
18 HON. SHERRI WALLACE
19 Assistant District Attorney
20 Dallas County, Texas
21
22 APPEARING FOR THE STATE OF TEXAS
23
24
25

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 128

1 HON. DOUGLAS D. MULDER
2 Attorney at Law
3 2650 Maxus Energy Tower
4 717 N. Harwood
5 Dallas, TX 75201
6
7 AND: HON. CURTIS GLOVER
8 Attorney at Law
9 2650 Maxus Energy Tower
10 717 N. Harwood
11 Dallas, TX 75201
12
13 AND: HON. RICHARD C. MOSTY
14 Attorney at Law
15 Wallace, Mosty, Machann, Jackson & Williams
16 820 Main Street, Suite 200
17 Kerrville, TX 78028
18
19 AND: HON. S. PRESTON DOUGLASS, JR.
20 Attorney at Law
21 Wallace, Mosty, Machann, Jackson & Williams
22 820 Main Street, Suite 200
23 Kerrville, TX 78028
24
25

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 129

1 AND: HON. JOHN HAGLER
2 Attorney at Law

3 901 Main Street, Suite 3601
4 Dallas, TX 75202
5 ALL ATTORNEYS REPRESENTING THE
6 DEFENDANT: DARLIE ROUTIER
7 MR. HAGLER HANDLING THE APPEAL
8
9 AND: HON. ALBERT D. PATILLO, III
10 Attorney at Law
11 820 Main Street, Suite 211
12 Kerrville, TX 78028
13 APPEARING FOR: Witness-
14 Detective Jimmy Patterson
15 only on one date in trial
16
17 AND: HON. STEVEN J. PICKELL
18 Attorney at Law
19 620 Earl Garrett Street
20 Kerrville, TX 78028
21 APPEARING FOR: Witness
22 Officer Chris Frosch
23 only on one date in trial
24
25

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 130

1 P R O C E E D I N G S
2
3 October 28th, 1996
4 Monday
5 9:30 a.m.
6
7 (Whereupon, the following
8 proceedings were held in
9 open court, in the presence
10 and hearing of the
11 defendant, being
12 represented by her attorneys
13 and the representatives of
14 the State of Texas, but
15 outside the presence of the
16 jury panel, as follows:)
17
18 THE COURT: We are back on the record
19 in the Darlie Routier matter. Let the record reflect all
20 the parties at trial are present. And these proceedings
21 are being held in the Kerr County Courthouse. And this
22 is October the 28th, of 1996. We're beginning the
23 individual voir dire in picking the jury. The first --
24 MR. TOBY SHOOK: Judge, could we get
25 you to rule on the record about -- we had a discussion

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 131

1 with Mr. Parks in your chambers, if we could get you to
2 rule on the record, the defendant was not there, about
3 the lesser included offense.
4 THE COURT: The ruling is this: There
5 is no lesser included offense in the charge against Mrs.
6 Routier. The State will either prove capital murder or
7 nothing. Because this offense is capital murder because
8 of the fact that the decedent is under 6 years of age.
9 That being the case it's either going to be a finding of
10 guilty of capital murder or a finding of not guilty, or
11 maybe a hung jury. But, I mean, there is no lesser
12 included offense. So we won't be voir diring on
13 probation or anything like that.
14 MR. TOBY SHOOK: Well, I think we
15 talked about, Judge, the motions for cause on that
16 ground.
17 THE COURT: There are no motions,
18 we're not going to get into any of that. There are no
19 motions for cause.
20 MR. TOBY SHOOK: Right. We discussed
21 that, I think, we talked about it, if you want to use a
22 peremptory challenge for that.
23 THE COURT: If that can be used, but
24 there is no challenge for cause on that. That's the
25 rule. There is no challenge for cause.

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 132

1 MR. RICHARD MOSTY: But we're not
2 prohibited from talking about it.
3 THE COURT: Oh, you can talk about it.
4 But there's no challenge for cause on it. I mean, no
5 need to challenge. All right. Is that enough?
6 All right. Is everybody ready for the
7 first juror?
8 MR. RICHARD MOSTY: Your Honor, there
9 is one other thing that we talked about here --
10 THE COURT: Yes.
11 MR. RICHARD MOSTY: What counsel and I
12 talked about originally was, if the State hits
13 something -- because there are a few people in here who
14 are quacks, and -- or if they have some disqualification,
15 with the Court's permission, we may just let them pass on
16 that subject and we may just say, thank you very much.
17 And we agree to challenge for cause or perhaps
18 rehabilitate them if we can, and then go back to whatever
19 else you want.
20 THE COURT: That is absolutely fine.
21 That's fine. Bring in the first prospective juror.
22 If you will have a seat right here,
23 sir, and please state your name for the record.
24 THE PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Stephon David
25 Sloan.

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 133

1 THE COURT: And that is Juror Number
2 2. All right. And just to be on the safe side, if you
3 will raise your right hand again.
4 Do you solemnly swear or affirm to
5 true answers make to all questions propounded to you
6 concerning your qualifications as a juror in this room or
7 in any courtroom or room you may be sent, so help you
8 God?
9 THE PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I do.
10 THE COURT: Thank you.
11 (Whereupon, the prospective
12 juror was duly sworn by the
13 Court to true answers make
14 to the questions propounded,
15 concerning qualifications, after
16 which time, the proceedings were
17 resumed as follows:)
18
19 Whereupon,
20
21 STEPHON DAVID SLOAN,
22
23 was called as a prospective juror, for the purpose of
24 voir dire, having been first duly sworn by the Court to
25 speak the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 134

1 truth, testified in open court, as follows:
2
3 VOIR DIRE EXAMINATION
4
5 BY MR. TOBY SHOOK:
6 Q. Mr. Sloan, my name is Toby Shook. I
7 am an Assistant District Attorney in Dallas, Texas. I am
8 one of the prosecutors assigned to the case. This is
9 Sherri Wallace behind me, she is also an Assistant
10 District Attorney. And I am going to be asking you some
11 questions this morning.
12 I want to emphasize that there are not
13 any right or wrong answers to any of these questions. We
14 just want your true opinions on these questions.
15 It's not a test of good citizenship or
16 anything like that. We're going to go over various
17 aspects of the law, how you feel about various aspects of
18 the law. You don't have to agree with us at all. This
19 is not a test of good citizenship or anything like that.
20 We just want to find out your honest opinions on some
21 issues to see if you can follow the law on certain areas;
22 okay?
23 A. Okay.
24 Q. I don't think -- you put down that you
25 haven't ever served on a jury before, have you?

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 135

1 A. No, sir.
2 Q. Okay. Usually jury selection is a
3 little bit different. We usually have everyone out in
4 the courtroom in one big bunch and talk to everyone in a
5 group and ask a few individual questions. But since this
6 is a capital murder case in which the State is seeking
7 the death penalty, we have this individual voir dire
8 where we talk to each juror.
9 It can be a little intimidating
10 sometimes. I know jurors sometimes feel like they're on
11 trial because they are up on the witness stand, but we
12 don't want you to feel that way at all. This gives us an
13 opportunity to talk to you for a while, and then the
14 defense will have an opportunity to talk to you for a
15 while. All right?
16 A. Sure.
17 Q. I see on your questionnaire, I believe
18 that you are a forklift driver; is that right?
19 A. No, sir. I am on the nursing staff at
20 La Hacienda Treatment Center.
21 Q. Okay. How long have you been there?
22 A. Altogether 14 years. I took a leave
23 of absence in '94.
24 Q. Okay. What was that leave of absence
25 about?

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 136

1 A. I moved to Mississippi.
2 Q. Okay.
3 A. Where I was born and raised.
4 Q. Okay. So you were born and raised in
5 Mississippi, and then you came --
6 A. I have been in Texas about 15 years.
7 Q. Okay. And what do you do at the
8 treatment center?
9 A. Admit patients into the detox unit, do
10 assessments, search their luggage.
11 Q. Okay.
12 A. Take their vital signs.
13 Q. Okay. And you have been there off and
14 on for about 14 years?
15 A. I was there for 12 years, and then I
16 have been back almost two years.
17 Q. Okay. You know we put on our
18 questionnaire, that there's some personal questions that
19 just stay right here, and one of them was a question
20 about have you had any counselling at all? Any type
21 of --
22 A. Yes, sir, I have been treated twice
23 for alcoholism.
24 Q. Okay. And, when was the last time you
25 were in treatment?

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 137

1 A. 1984.
2 Q. Okay. So it's been?
3 A. I have been sober since then.
4 Q. Okay. It's been a long time then?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. Okay. As far as the trial goes, Judge
7 Tolle told you that the trial will begin on January 6.
8 A. Uh-huh. (Witness nodding head
9 affirmatively.)
10 Q. And Judge Tolle's schedule usually, I
11 don't think it will change for this trial, it's 9:00 in
12 the morning about so, until about 5:00 in the afternoon.
13 And he goes pretty steady throughout the day with certain
14 breaks.
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. We can't give you an exact time on how
17 long the trial will take. We're looking at about two
18 weeks, probably three weeks at the most; more like two
19 weeks. Would that interfere with your schedule at that
20 time at all?
21 A. I work nights.
22 Q. Okay. So that is not going to
23 interfere with your schedule?
24 A. And I told them I have to be here.
25 Q. They understand?

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 138

1 A. Oh, yes.
2 Q. Okay. Mr. Sloan, let me get into
3 then, kind of the heart of the matter. Obviously, you
4 have been told that we can't get into the facts of the
5 case at all, but you know this is a capital murder case.
6 It's one in which the State is actively seeking the death
7 penalty in this case. So we want to explore each juror's
8 feelings about the death penalty.
9 A. For me, you know, you never really
10 think about the death penalty until it happens to you or
11 to your family. So, you know, this lady, if she is not
12 guilty, she has -- they have to prove to me that she is
13 guilty before I say -- I would rather let somebody guilty
14 go before I sentence somebody for the death penalty.
15 Q. Okay. So, as the law in general, are
16 you in favor of the death penalty?
17 A. But if she is proven guilty, she needs
18 to face the consequences.
19 Q. Okay. So you are in favor of the
20 death penalty as a law?
21 A. Well, that is what is wrong with this
22 country now. Nobody wants to take responsibility for
23 their actions.
24 Q. Okay. Have you given the death
25 penalty much thought before you were called down, and

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 139

1 told that you could be on a death penalty case?
2 A. No, I have thought about it since I
3 have been summoned to be on the jury.
4 Q. Tell us a little bit about your
5 thoughts. What's gone through your mind?
6 A. Well, is it right or is it wrong?
7 Q. You have just been debating with
8 yourself, more or less, kind of weighing both sides of
9 the issue?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. And tell us what you have come up
12 with.
13 A. Well, let me put myself in her place
14 for a minute. The death penalty, you know, if you kill
15 somebody by lethal injection, that is not really facing
16 the consequences. Locking them up in prison for the rest
17 of their life, then they face consequences.
18 Q. So you think the death penalty might
19 almost be --
20 A. That is just a way out.
21 Q. The easy way out?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. Okay. Do you think that life
24 imprisonment would be more appropriate a punishment?
25 A. Uh-huh. (Witness nodding head

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 140

1 affirmatively.)
2 Q. Okay.
3 A. Prison ain't no place to be.
4 Q. Okay. Anything else come to mind when
5 you were discussing with yourself whether the death
6 penalty is right or wrong? Did you come up with anything
7 else?
8 A. No.
9 Q. Okay. Have you ever -- what types of
10 crimes do you think might be appropriate for the death
11 penalty?
12
13 MR. RICHARD MOSTY: Your Honor, I am
14 going to object to that unless counsel gives some
15 definition of what the law allows in that regard.
16 THE COURT: Yes, I will sustain that.
17 Well, you might give a little more information.
18 MR. TOBY SHOOK: Judge, I am just
19 trying to get his personal feelings about how he feels
20 about the death penalty. I'm not trying to tie him down
21 to any facts.
22 THE COURT: Okay. Well, go ahead with
23 it then.
24
25 BY MR. TOBY SHOOK:

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 141

1 Q. Is there anything that comes to mind
2 as far as the types of crimes you think are appropriate
3 for the death penalty?
4 A. Well, I guess murder is about the
5 worst thing you can do; isn't it?
6 Q. Right.
7 A. That is a violent crime.
8 Q. Is there any certain types of murder,
9 or do you just think --
10 A. Well, that would be number one, I
11 guess.
12 Q. Okay. Let me ask you: On your
13 questionnaire, we had you fill out this long 13 page
14 questionnaire, and on the second page we asked, "Are you
15 in favor of the death penalty," and on that day you
16 checked off "no." Do you remember that?
17 A. Yes, because I should have wrote,
18 unsure on that.
19 Q. Okay. And why were you unsure on that
20 day?
21 A. Because I hadn't even thought about
22 it. You hear about people, you know, getting sentenced
23 to death, and, you know, you just don't think about it.
24 Q. Okay.
25 A. Until it involves you, yourself.

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 142

1 Q. Okay. And we also, on that day, it
2 may not have been fair to ask you on that day, we had
3 certain categories we had you check off, you had circled
4 Number 3. And I'll read it for you because I'm sure you
5 don't remember how you answered some of the questions.
6 "Although I don't believe the death penalty ever ought to
7 be invoked, as long as the law provides for it, I can
8 assess it under the proper set of circumstances."
9 A. Read that again.
10 Q. "Although I do not believe the death
11 penalty ever ought to be invoked, as long as the law
12 provides for it, I can assess it under the proper set of
13 circumstances."
14 Is that how you feel about it, or have
15 you changed your mind on that issue?
16 A. Well, why not, I guess.
17 Q. I'm sorry?
18 A. I guess so.
19 Q. Okay. You see, what I am getting down
20 to is, obviously, the core issue here is the State is
21 actively seeking the death penalty.
22 A. Okay.
23 Q. We're going to be going for that. The
24 defense over here, they are good lawyers and they are
25 going to be fighting us every inch of the way. So, it's

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 143

1 going to be a very contested issue. And we need to know
2 if there are jurors that can have an open mind to both
3 sides, and let me give you kind of a preview.
4 What happens in a capital murder case,
5 is it's divided into two parts. There is the
6 guilt/innocence stage where we have to prove our
7 indictment beyond a reasonable doubt, whether they are
8 guilty of the crime itself. If we do that, we move to
9 the punishment phase, which you can then hear additional
10 evidence. You might hear background evidence. You may
11 not hear any additional evidence. But at the close of
12 that you will be asked to answer these questions.
13 We may go over those in more detail in
14 a minute. But basically, question number 1, we have
15 to -- the State has to prove there is a probability that
16 the defendant would commit criminal acts of violence,
17 they would be a danger to society in the future. If you
18 put it another way, they would be a future danger to
19 society.
20 The second question that comes up, is
21 whether there is any mitigating evidence. Any evidence
22 that the jurors feel that despite them being guilty of
23 the crime, and being a danger, they feel that a life
24 sentence should be imposed, rather than the death
25 sentence. But if you answered "yes" to that first

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 144

1 question, and "no" to the second question, Judge Tolle
2 would have no discretion in this matter, he would
3 sentence the defendant to death.
4 If it's answered any other way, it's
5 an automatic life sentence, you see. It's one of the
6 two, once you have found someone guilty. It's going to
7 be a life sentence or a death sentence. All depending on
8 how the jurors answered these questions. Of course, if
9 it's a "yes" and a "no" in a death sentence, the
10 execution is death by lethal injection. Have you read
11 about that at all in the State of Texas?
12 A. No, I haven't read about it, but I
13 have seen it on the news.
14 Q. You have seen it on the news? Okay.
15 A. I read in the paper about it.
16 Q. You know full well then that it is
17 something that actually does occur in the State of Texas?
18 A. Oh, yes.
19 Q. The procedures are that if a person is
20 sentenced to death they are housed obviously down in
21 Huntsville, but at sometime in the future, given an
22 actual death date, and on that date they are moved to a
23 special unit, given time with family and friends, maybe a
24 minister, but after 6 p.m., the guards will take them
25 from the room, and they are taken to a special chamber

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 145

1 where there are witnesses, they are put on a gurney,
2 needles put in their arms, and they are injected with a
3 substance that causes their heart to stop. I think
4 there's been over 100 death penalties.
5 And that is our goal in this case. We
6 need to know if you can actually sit on a case of this
7 kind and listen to the evidence, and if we prove the
8 case, take pen in hand, and give those answers that would
9 result in Mrs. Routier's death.
10 Would you be able to do that? Is this
11 the type of case you could sit on? Or is this just not
12 your cup of tea?
13
14 MR. RICHARD MOSTY: I am going to
15 object to that question because he mixed in two things.
16 One, he talked about Mrs. Routier --
17 THE COURT: I'll sustain it.
18 MR. RICHARD MOSTY: -- and then he
19 said --
20 THE COURT: All right. I'll sustain
21 it. Just because he has an objection to the death
22 penalty, that does not disqualify him.
23
24 BY MR. TOBY SHOOK:
25 Q. Well, is this the type of case you

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 146

1 could sit on, that could result in someone's death?
2 A. (Witness shakes head.)
3 Q. Okay. And tell us why.
4
5 THE COURT REPORTER: What was that
6 reply?
7
8 BY MR. TOBY SHOOK:
9 Q. If I could get you to -- you shook
10 your head negatively, didn't you? You mean no? Was your
11 answer no?
12 A. Yes. No. (Witness nodding head
13 affirmatively.)
14
15 THE COURT: Okay. Wait a minute. We
16 can't take down head shakes or nods, you know, or uh-huhs
17 or huh-uhs.
18 THE PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes, sir, I
19 understand.
20 THE COURT: Just answer, and go ahead
21 and elaborate if you like.
22 THE PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Well, no, sir,
23 I don't want to be responsible for someone dying.
24
25 BY MR. TOBY SHOOK:

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 147

1 Q. Okay. And that is fine. Like I said,
2 we just want your honest answers to our questions, and I
3 appreciate your honesty on that. You just don't want to
4 take that type of responsibility?
5 A. Uh-huh. (Witness nodding head
6 affirmatively.)
7 Q. You don't want that weighing on your
8 conscience, that kind of thing?
9 A. Uh-huh. (Witness nodding head
10 affirmatively.)
11 Q. Okay. Again, it's fine to feel that
12 way, Mr. Sloan. That is what we're looking for is your
13 honest answers. If this were a case that just involved
14 prison time, like a burglary case --
15 A. Yes, but you lock somebody up in
16 prison from now on, don't you think they are going to
17 face it? They are going to have to deal with reality.
18 And when you die, when you are dead, you are dead and you
19 can't face nothing.
20 Q. Sure. And I'm not here to argue with
21 you. I just want to explore your feelings, so it's clear
22 to everyone what they are. Even though you feel that
23 prison time is more punishment, still you don't want the
24 responsibility of deciding whether someone dies or not;
25 is that right?

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 148

1 A. Yes. I don't have any problems
2 sentencing anybody to life in prison.
3 Q. Right.
4 A. But I just don't want --
5 Q. Okay. It is that person that --
6 A. I believe that is God's decision.
7 Q. I'm sorry?
8 A. I believe that's God's decision.
9 Q. Okay. Do you feel strongly about
10 that, Mr. Sloan?
11 A. Oh, yes.
12 Q. And have you thought about that a lot
13 since we had you come down here last Monday and fill out
14 the questionnaire?
15 A. Uh-huh. (Witness nodding head
16 affirmatively.)
17 Q. Have you discussed it with anyone
18 else?
19 A. Huh-uh. (Witness shaking head
20 negatively.)
21 Q. These have been just inner thoughts?
22 A. Uh-huh. (Witness nodding head
23 affirmatively.)
24 Q. Okay. Would you feel that that is a
25 strong conviction on your part now about how you feel

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 149

1 about not wanting to be responsible for someone's death?
2 A. Uh-huh. (Witness nodding head
3 affirmatively.) Yes, sir.
4 Q. Okay. Do you feel you would change
5 your mind on that in way, or is your mind made up about
6 that? You don't want to be responsible for someone's
7 death?
8 A. Yes, sir.
9 Q. It's not something you take lightly,
10 is it?
11 A. No, sir.
12 Q. Okay. And if this was a case, another
13 type of case, where it just involved prison time you
14 wouldn't have a problem sentencing someone to prison?
15 A. No, sir.
16 Q. It's just the fact that this is -- the
17 ultimate punishment here is death, and if you answer
18 those questions a certain way, the defendant could be
19 sentenced to death, and that is what your objection is to
20 sitting and making that type of decision is; is that
21 right?
22 A. Uh-huh. (Witness nodding head
23 affirmatively.) You know if you all have all the proof
24 and the facts within a reasonable doubt, then she --
25 somebody is going to have to face the consequences.

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 150

1 Q. Right. But you don't want to be the
2 one that has to make that decision?
3 A. Of death?
4 Q. Right.
5 A. No, sir. Life in prison, yes.
6 Q. Life in prison, that is not an issue
7 for you, you could do that?
8 A. Life in prison with no parole, yes, I
9 have no problem with that.
10 Q. Okay. But I want to concentrate on
11 the death issue, that is where your objection is and your
12 problem comes in, right?
13 A. That's right.
14 Q. Now you understand, and like you said,
15 this is a strong conviction on your part; is that right?
16 A. Yes, sir.
17 Q. It's something you have thought about
18 and you feel strongly about?
19 A. Yes, sir.
20 Q. Okay. You understand how our
21 situation works here: You don't actually write death or
22 life in prison in. We have to prove, first of all, this
23 first question, can be a continuing danger.
24
25 THE COURT: Maybe Mr. Sloan would want

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 151

1 to read those.
2 MR. TOBY SHOOK: Yes, sir.
3 THE COURT: Maybe you would want to
4 stand up and read those if you could?
5 MR. TOBY SHOOK: Yeah. All right.
6 THE COURT: Step over there. That's
7 fine. Take your time.
8 THE PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I can see
9 here.
10 MR. TOBY SHOOK: In fact, why don't I
11 just read the first question aloud and if you will go
12 along with me.
13 THE PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Okay.
14
15 BY MR. TOBY SHOOK:
16 Q. First question: "Do you find from the
17 evidence beyond a reasonable doubt that there is the
18 probability that the defendant would commit criminal acts
19 of violence that would constitute a continuing threat to
20 society?"
21 You know we actually have to prove
22 there would be a continuing danger. The second
23 question, -- if we get a "yes" to that, then you move on
24 to this second question. That is what we call the
25 mitigation issue.

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 152

1 "Taking into consideration all of the
2 evidence, including the circumstances of the offense, the
3 defendant's character and the background, the personal
4 moral culpability of the defendant, is there a sufficient
5 mitigating circumstance or circumstances to warrant that
6 the sentence of life imprisonment, rather than a death
7 sentence be imposed."
8 That is a real long question. We
9 didn't think it up ourselves, the legislature did that.
10 But basically, it has the jurors look at all the
11 evidence, and if they find anything where they think,
12 well, a life sentence should be imposed rather than a
13 death sentence, they would answer it that way.
14 And thus, spare the defendant the death penalty. It's a
15 way for the jurors -- it's kind of a safety net.
16 Mitigating evidence can be whatever
17 you feel it is. Go ahead and have a seat.
18 Are you telling us, Mr. Sloan, that
19 because of your personal feelings about not being able to
20 take responsibility for putting someone to death, or
21 answering questions that would actually lead to their
22 execution, that this is just not the type of case you
23 could sit on and make that particular decision?
24 A. Sentence her to what?
25 Q. To death.

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 153

1 A. To death? Well, I probably could, but
2 I still wouldn't change my mind on it. I don't think.
3 Q. You wouldn't change your mind on what?
4 A. To sentence her to the death penalty,
5 to lethal injection.
6 Q. You still have your objections to
7 doing that?
8 A. Uh-huh. (Witness nodding head
9 affirmatively.) It just isn't right though, to take
10 somebody's life.
11 Q. Okay. And that is fine that you feel
12 that way. But, I get some concern when then all of a
13 sudden you say, I probably could.
14 You see, there is all different --
15 everyone comes in here with a different opinion and each
16 one is fine on its own. And you have told me clearly
17 several times that you don't feel that you have the right
18 to sit there and judge someone so that they might be
19 executed. That you don't have the right to do that, and
20 you don't want to take that responsibility. And then --
21 but then you just said you probably could.
22 A. Well, I could sentence her to --
23 sentence somebody to life in prison.
24 Q. Sure.
25 A. I have no problem with that at all.

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 154

1 Q. Okay. Well, I think that we are all
2 clear on that. It's the death issue you have a problem
3 with.
4 A. It's the death issue. I'm not going
5 to sentence nobody.
6 Q. You are just not going to sentence
7 someone to death?
8 A. No.
9 Q. That is just how you personally feel?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. And it's a strong conviction on your
12 part?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. Okay. Again, that's fine. I know I
15 have been over this with you. I don't mean to beat a
16 dead horse, but we need everything to be clear to Judge
17 Tolle and clear on the record about how you feel.
18 So you are never going to answer these
19 questions in a way that would actually result in her
20 death. Life in prison, that's fine. But resulting where
21 she would -- Judge Tolle would have to sentence her to
22 death, you couldn't do that; is that right?
23 A. No.
24 Q. You just couldn't take that type of
25 responsibility yourself?

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 155

1 A. No.
2 Q. And you are sure about that?
3 A. Uh-huh. (Witness nodding head
4 affirmatively.) Positive.
5 Q. Okay. It's not something you would
6 change your mind on lightly; is that right?
7 A. No, sir.
8 Q. Okay. And you could never -- and I
9 know I just want to make it clear, answer the questions,
10 you understand that you don't write life or death, but
11 you can never answer the questions with a yes and a no
12 answer so that it would cause Judge Tolle to sentence the
13 defendant to death?
14 A. Yes, sir.
15 Q. Okay. All right.
16
17 MR. TOBY SHOOK: Judge, why don't we
18 stop there for a moment and let Mr. Mosty -- maybe he
19 wants to ask you some questions.
20
21 VOIR DIRE EXAMINATION
22
23 BY MR. RICHARD MOSTY:
24 Q. Mr. Sloan, how are you this morning?
25 A. Fine.

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 156

1 Q. Did you come in from La Hacienda this
2 morning?
3 A. No, sir, I work nights. I come in
4 from Pipe Creek Parkway.
5 Q. Okay. I thought you might not be able
6 to get here from La Hacienda this morning.
7 A. No, sir.
8 Q. My name is Richard Mosty, and I am
9 representing Darlie Routier who is seated behind me here.
10 And this is Preston Douglass, who is my partner. And I
11 want to visit with you a little bit about some of what
12 you have testified to, and told us about this morning.
13 And let me be candid with you, I sort
14 of have mixed -- I am hearing mixed things from you, in
15 my judgment, of what you are saying.
16 Let me first say this: I don't think
17 anybody wants the responsibility of being here. I don't
18 think there is any juror ever who has sat on any case who
19 wants the responsibility of sitting on a case that may
20 result in a death penalty. That, people -- I have just
21 never seen anybody stand up and say that is what they
22 want to do. It's a terrific responsibility. But in a
23 lot of ways it's no different than a lot of
24 responsibilities that we have as citizens.
25 We have a responsibility to follow the

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 157

1 law. We have a responsibility to defend our country when
2 we are called upon to do that. Those are the
3 responsibilities that go with the constitutional rights
4 that we have.
5 So, what I want to explore, is those
6 responsibilities. And, what I heard you say, and you
7 tell me if I am not right, but I heard you say was, that
8 you don't have a problem with the death penalty, you just
9 don't want to be -- you don't want to be placed in that
10 very difficult position.
11 A. You're right. I don't have a problem
12 with it, as long as it don't concern me.
13 Q. Okay. Well, you don't have any
14 objection to the law, or to the death penalty law as
15 such?
16 A. No, sir.
17 Q. All right. And let me first say that
18 the death penalty only ever even applies in a very small
19 number of circumstances. And that is, where there is a
20 murder of police officer, or a multiple murder, or a
21 murder committed during the course of some other felony.
22 So there is a very limited range and they are all murder
23 cases in which the death penalty is even possible. And,
24 you don't have any objections to that I take it?
25 A. No, sir.

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 158

1 Q. To that limitation?
2 A. No, sir.
3 Q. The procedure is that if you find a
4 defendant guilty, and that is the first big if, you never
5 even talk about this unless you find the defendant guilty
6 of capital murder, then you go and you answer these
7 questions. And the questions that you have to deal with
8 is, can you, can you answer those questions based upon
9 the evidence that is presented to you, knowing your
10 reservations about your responsibility, but can you take
11 an oath to answer those two special issues that are on
12 the board truthfully and honestly, based upon the
13 evidence?
14 A. Well, if she is locked up -- number
15 one, if she is locked up for life, if someone is locked
16 up for life, they can't --
17
18 THE COURT: That wasn't the question.
19 Please listen to the question and answer the question.
20
21 BY MR. RICHARD MOSTY:
22 Q. Okay. We won't -- just focus on these
23 two questions, because that is what I am asking you, and
24 that is what Judge Tolle is eventually going to ask any
25 juror. And I don't want to talk about this case, but in

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 159

1 any case in which there is a capital murder defendant
2 that is found guilty, that is what Judge Tolle or
3 whomever the Judge is going to be, is going to say, "You,
4 the jury, need to go out and answer these special issues.
5 Follow the law, and base your decision upon the evidence
6 that is presented to you." Can you do that?
7 A. Yes, sir.
8 Q. And knowing that the result may be one
9 that you have a very difficult time with?
10 A. Yes, sir.
11 Q. Knowing that the result could be the
12 death penalty, nonetheless, you could honestly and
13 truthfully answer those questions?
14 A. I would just have to deal with it.
15 Q. Okay. And again, nobody wants to.
16 And, you might not be picked on this jury, but that is,
17 you know, that is one of the awesome responsibilities
18 that comes with being a citizen of the United States.
19 And you could, even though you don't like it, you could
20 get up and do that task honestly and truthfully?
21 A. Yes, sir.
22 Q. Thank you.
23
24 THE COURT: Either side have anything
25 else?

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 160

1 MR. TOBY SHOOK: I would like to ask
2 some more questions, Your Honor.
3 THE COURT: All right. You have used
4 18 minutes.
5 MR. TOBY SHOOK: Thank you, Judge.
6 THE COURT: Thank you.
7
8 FURTHER VOIR DIRE EXAMINATION
9
10 BY MR. TOBY SHOOK:
11 Q. We don't mean to beat you down with
12 the same type questions.
13 A. It's okay. It's all right.
14 Q. But obviously --
15 A. I'm not in a hurry.
16 Q. But you know the way that lawyers are,
17 we can ask -- we can ask questions from here until the
18 world ends. We love to ask questions, talk to people,
19 and we can phrase things differently and get different
20 answers a lot of times.
21 But what I want to get down to again
22 are your honest opinions. Because, Mr. Mosty has asked
23 you, can you answer these questions honestly based on the
24 evidence.
25 And then you have also given me

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 161

1 answers where, I think, one of your answers was, you
2 said, "We just don't have the right to take someone's
3 life." You didn't have any problem with fashioning a
4 sentence or giving a sentence of life in prison, but as
5 far as the death penalty is concerned, we just don't have
6 that right.
7 You told me several times that you had
8 a strong conviction, and you thought about it and you
9 just can't sit on a death-penalty-type case, and answer
10 questions in a way that would result in a defendant's
11 death. Life imprisonment is no problem, but if it's the
12 death, you couldn't do that.
13 You told me that you couldn't answer
14 those questions that way. You told me that was a strong
15 conviction on your part. Have you changed your mind in
16 any way, or do you still feel that way?
17 A. Well, I need to answer you, don't I?
18
19 THE COURT: Well, it would be very
20 helpful.
21 THE PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes.
22
23 BY MR. TOBY SHOOK:
24 Q. Do you still feel that way?
25 A. Yes.

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 162

1 Q. Okay. The life imprisonment issue,
2 you could do that to someone?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. It is just sentencing someone to
5 death, you could never do that personally. You don't
6 feel you have that right?
7
8 MR. RICHARD MOSTY: Well, Your Honor,
9 again, I think that is an unfair question, because he
10 does not sentence them.
11 THE COURT: Well, I'll sustain the
12 objection. He answered the question, we understand that.
13 THE PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Well, you
14 never think about this until you are in it.
15
16 BY MR. TOBY SHOOK:
17 Q. Sure.
18 A. If it was my brother or my mother,
19 yeah, I could do it.
20 Q. Sure. I understand, but you couldn't
21 be on a jury though where your mother or brother were the
22 victim.
23 A. Well, no.
24 Q. Obviously. We wouldn't expect you to
25 want to do it.

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 163

1
2 MR. TOBY SHOOK: Defense counsel might
3 lose their bar card if that happened.
4 THE COURT: Yes, well -- with a
5 brother-in-law maybe.
6
7 BY MR. TOBY SHOOK:
8 Q. Yeah, brother-in-law, maybe.
9 A. Mother-in-law.
10 Q. Yes, well, the defense might want you
11 on the jury if it was your mother-in-law. But when it
12 gets down to it, I mean, you feel very strongly about
13 that, just the way you talked about it before; is that
14 right?
15 A. Uh-huh. (Witness nodding head
16 affirmatively.)
17 Q. Okay. And that is all we are looking
18 for, is your honest opinions. You know, I have talked to
19 a lot of jurors on these type of cases, and sometimes we
20 get jurors that feel so strongly, they are so strongly
21 for the death penalty, they think it's appropriate in all
22 cases. They can't wait to get on the jury, and they will
23 honestly tell us, "I don't care what your evidence is,
24 I'm going to answer those questions in a way that is
25 going to get them dead."

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 164

1 Obviously that is not fair either,
2 especially not fair to the defense, because they are
3 entitled --
4 A. Well, that is just the way some people
5 think, though.
6 Q. Yes. They are entitled to honest
7 jurors who can answer these questions and aren't
8 pre-bound. But in the same way, the State is entitled to
9 jurors who could fairly assess that. Some people can and
10 some people can't. And I think what you have told me
11 before, is that life imprisonment, that is not problem;
12 it's answering these questions the way that result in the
13 defendant's death is what you have a problem with and you
14 cannot do; is that right?
15 A. Yes, sir.
16 Q. Okay. It's not a question of what
17 evidence we have to prove this case, to prove that she is
18 a future danger or whatever, you just, that doesn't
19 matter, it's the fact --
20
21 MR. RICHARD MOSTY: Your Honor, I want
22 to object to the reference to she.
23 THE COURT: Sustained.
24
25 BY MR. TOBY SHOOK:

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 165

1 Q. Okay. It's not a question of what
2 type of evidence we have to prove question Number 1,
3 right? It's the fact, the bottom line is, that you don't
4 feel that you have the right to answer that question in
5 the way that would result in her death; is that right?
6 A. Yes, sir.
7 Q. Okay. And it's just something you
8 could do. It's not a question of what we prove to you,
9 it's just something you feel strongly about; is that
10 right?
11 A. Yes, sir.
12 Q. And so, no matter how much evidence I
13 put on on that question or the second question, you are
14 just not going to be able to answer the questions in a
15 way that would result in her death?
16 A. Yes, sir.
17 Q. Is that right?
18 A. Yes, sir.
19 Q. You feel strongly about that?
20 A. Yes, sir.
21 Q. Life imprisonment, that is fine, but
22 you are not going to be able to forget about how you feel
23 about the death penalty, are you?
24 A. No, sir.
25 Q. I mean, you feel pretty strongly about

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 166

1 those things, don't you?
2 A. Yes, sir.
3 Q. Okay. And that is just something to
4 be honest about, and you are just being honest with us
5 about it, is that right?
6 A. Yes, sir, I'm totally honest.
7 Q. Okay.
8
9 MR. TOBY SHOOK: Again Judge, we will
10 pass the juror.
11 MR. RICHARD MOSTY: May we approach
12 the bench, Your Honor?
13 THE COURT: Yes.
14
15 (Whereupon, a short
16 Discussion was held
17 Off the record, after
18 Which time the
19 Proceedings were resumed
20 As follows:)
21
22 BY MR. TOBY SHOOK:
23 Q. Well, let me talk about question
24 Number 1 again, just for a moment. "Do you find from the
25 evidence beyond a reasonable doubt that there is a

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 167

1 probability that the defendant would commit criminal acts
2 of violence that would constitute a continuing threat to
3 society."
4 That is something we would have to
5 prove to you in the punishment stage. That there is that
6 probability would exist. Do you understand where that
7 question is trying to ask you to predict the future?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. That they would be a continuing threat
10 to society?
11 A. Well, you mean that somebody may kill
12 somebody else?
13 Q. Well, it doesn't actually say kill
14 someone else. Some people feel that way, but just be a
15 continuing threat to society.
16 A. They might commit another crime?
17 Q. Right. That is something that we have
18 to prove, that question. Do you think that you could
19 answer a question like that based on the evidence?
20 A. Yes, sir.
21 Q. You think you could predict the future
22 that way based on the evidence?
23 A. Yes, sir.
24 Q. Okay. What comes to mind when you
25 think about criminal acts of violence? What does that

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 168

1 mean to you?
2 A. Criminal acts? What do I think?
3 Q. Yes.
4 A. Why do people do such things?
5 Q. We --
6
7 THE COURT: Will you please listen to
8 Mr. Shook's questions?
9
10 BY MR. TOBY SHOOK:
11 Q. We have to prove -- and you are not
12 going to get definitions of what these words are. It is
13 going to be up to you. One of the things we have to
14 prove is that there is a probability the defendant would
15 commit criminal acts of violence. When we say criminal
16 acts of violence, what does that mean to you?
17 A. Murder, rape or child abuse.
18 Q. Okay. Let me ask you this personally:
19 What type of evidence would you like to hear? What would
20 be good for you to hear to make you be able to make a
21 decision like that?
22 A. What type of evidence would I like to
23 hear?
24 Q. Yes. On this first issue, where we
25 are trying to prove that the defendant would be a future

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 169

1 danger. Personally, what types of evidence would you
2 like be comfortable in hearing in order to make that
3 decision?
4 A. Is this this person's first offense?
5 Q. Okay.
6 A. Criminal offense.
7 Q. Okay. Anything else?
8 A. Were they in the right state of mind
9 when this happened?
10 Q. Okay. Let me go to one other area of
11 the questionnaire, Mr. Sloan. I don't mean to skip
12 around, but on page 3, you had answered, we have a
13 statement, in fact, let me just let you look at it. I
14 know you had -- may I approach the juror?
15
16 THE COURT: Oh, yes.
17 MR. TOBY SHOOK: Page 3. You see that
18 question there? If you could just read that for a
19 moment.
20 THE PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Okay.
21
22 BY MR. TOBY SHOOK:
23 Q. The statement we asked there is, "If a
24 person is accused of a capital murder, should she have to
25 prove her innocence?" And you put strongly agree.

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 170

1 A. Uh-huh. (Witness nodding head
2 affirmatively.)
3 Q. Okay. How do you feel about that? Do
4 you still feel that way?
5 A. Uh-huh. (Witness nodding head
6 affirmatively.)
7 Q. Tell us a little bit about that.
8 A. People are not accused for no reason.
9 I mean, y'all wouldn't have this person up here for no
10 reason, would you?
11 Q. Okay. Would you require the defendant
12 then to prove her innocence, or would you require a
13 criminal defendant to prove innocence, a person that is
14 charged with capital murder?
15 A. Yes, sir.
16 Q. Okay.
17 A. They have to prove it.
18 Q. Okay. You would want, I guess, these
19 lawyers to put on some type of evidence, that type of
20 thing?
21 A. Yes, sir.
22 Q. Okay. If they didn't put on any type
23 of evidence, would you then, after the State presented
24 it's case, would you find the defendant guilty because
25 they had not presented any evidence?

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 171

1 A. Of her being innocent?
2 Q. Right.
3 A. No, sir.
4 Q. Okay.
5 A. If they don't prove that she is
6 innocent, she is -- evidently she is guilty then, if they
7 can't prove that she is innocent.
8 Q. This is kind of how it works, though:
9 There are certain rules of law. The State, since we do
10 the charging, we have the burden of proof. We have to
11 prove the case beyond a reasonable doubt. And that
12 burden never shifts, it never goes over to the defense.
13 Do you understand?
14 A. Uh-huh. (Witness nodding head
15 affirmatively.)
16 Q. If we don't meet that burden, then the
17 jurors are obligated to find the defendant not guilty.
18 However, some jurors feel strongly
19 that, well, if you are excused of the crime, then you
20 should have to prove your innocence, through your lawyers
21 or whatever. However, the law doesn't require that at
22 all. It only requires the State to prove it. If we
23 don't prove it, then it's not guilty.
24 They are not obligated to put on
25 witnesses. They are not obligated to even ask questions

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 172

1 if they don't want to. So it's all up to whether the
2 State proves the case or not. Would you require the
3 defense though, from your own personal standpoint, to
4 prove the defendant's innocence?
5 A. Well, if it was me, I would want to
6 prove my innocence.
7
8 THE COURT: Please listen to the
9 question.
10
11 BY MR. TOBY SHOOK:
12 Q. Would you require the defense to prove
13 the defendant's innocence?
14 A. If you can't prove that, she is
15 guilty.
16 Q. If we put our case on, beyond a
17 reasonable doubt, if we finished putting on our evidence,
18 are you going to require the defense to prove her
19 innocence in any way?
20 A. No, sir.
21 Q. Okay. How do you feel about the
22 defendant's -- the Judge went over this -- the
23 defendant's right not to testify. Everyone has the
24 constitutional right. They can testify if they want to,
25 but if they don't want to, they are not required to by

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 173

1 law.
2 Some people can follow that rule of
3 law and other people feel strongly about, that they would
4 want the defendant to testify. They might find the
5 defendant -- they feel the defendant is guilty if they
6 didn't take the stand in their own defense. How do you