Volume 10

1 IN THE CRIMINAL DISTRICT COURT NO. 3
2 DALLAS COUNTY, TEXAS
3
4
5
6 THE STATE OF TEXAS } NO. F-96-39973-J
7 VS: } & A-96-253
8 DARLIE LYNN ROUTIER } Kerr Co. Number
9
10
11
12
13 STATEMENT OF FACTS
14 JURY VOIR DIRE
15 QUALIFICATION HEARING
16 VOL. 10 OF 53 VOLS.
17 October 21, 1996
18 Monday
19
20
21
22
23
24
25

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 1

1 C A P T I O N
2
3
4 BE IT REMEMBERED THAT, on Monday, the 21st day of
5 October, 1996, in the Criminal District Court Number 3 of
6 Dallas County, Texas, the above-styled cause came on for
7 a hearing before the Hon. Mark Tolle, Judge of the
8 Criminal District Court No. 3, of Dallas County, Texas,
9 without a jury, and the proceedings were held, in open
10 court, in the City of Kerrville, Kerr County Courthouse,
11 Kerr County, Texas, and the proceedings were had as
12 follows:
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 2

1 A P P E A R A N C E S
2
3
4 HON. JOHN VANCE
5 Criminal District Attorney
6 Dallas County, Texas
7
8 BY: HON. GREG DAVIS
9 Assistant District Attorney
10 Dallas County, Texas
11
12 AND:
13 HON. TOBY SHOOK
14 Assistant District Attorney
15 Dallas County, Texas
16
17 AND:
18 HON. SHERRI WALLACE
19 Assistant District Attorney
20 Dallas County, Texas
21
22 APPEARING FOR THE STATE OF TEXAS
23
24
25

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 3

1 ADDITIONAL APPEARANCES:
2
3 HON. DOUGLAS PARKS
4 Attorney at Law
5 Dallas County, Texas
6
7 AND:
8 HON. WAYNE HUFF
9 Attorney at Law
10 Dallas County, Texas
11
12 Appearing for the Defendant
13 For the purpose of the trial
14 AND:
15
16 HON. BLAKE WITHROW
17 Attorney at Law
18 Dallas County, Texas
19
20 APPEARING FOR THE DEFENDANT
21 for the purpose of the appeal
22
23
24
25

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 4

1 ADDITIONAL APPEARANCES:
2 HON. DOUGLAS D. MULDER
3 Attorney at Law
4 2650 Maxus Energy Tower
5 717 N. Harwood
6 Dallas, TX 75201
7
8 AND: HON. CURTIS GLOVER
9 Attorney at Law
10 2650 Maxus Energy Tower
11 717 N. Harwood
12 Dallas, TX 75201
13
14 AND: HON. RICHARD C. MOSTY
15 Attorney at Law
16 Wallace, Mosty, Machann, Jackson & Williams
17 820 Main Street, Suite 200
18 Kerrville, TX 78028
19
20 AND: HON. S. PRESTON DOUGLASS, JR.
21 Attorney at Law
22 Wallace, Mosty, Machann, Jackson & Williams
23 820 Main Street, Suite 200
24 Kerrville, TX 78028
25

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 5

1 AND: HON. JOHN HAGLER
2 Attorney at Law
3 901 Main Street, Suite 3601
4 Dallas, TX 75202
5
6 ALL ATTORNEYS REPRESENTING THE
7 DEFENDANT: DARLIE ROUTIER
8 MR. HAGLER HANDLING THE APPEAL
9 AND:
10 HON. ALBERT D. PATILLO, III
11 Attorney at Law
12 820 Main Street, Suite 211
13 Kerrville, TX 78028
14 APPEARING FOR: Witness-
15 Detective Jimmy Patterson
16
17 AND:
18 HON. STEVEN J. PICKELL
19 Attorney at Law
20 620 Earl Garrett Street
21 Kerrville, TX 78028
22 APPEARING FOR: Witness
23 Officer Chris Frosch
24
25

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 6

1 P R O C E E D I N G S
2
3 October 21st 1996
4 Monday
5 9:30 a.m.
6
7 (Whereupon, the following
8 proceedings were held in
9 Open court, in the presence
10 And hearing of the
11 Defendant, being
12 Represented by her attorneys
13 and the representatives of
14 The State of Texas, but
15 Outside the presence of the
16 jury panel, as follows:)
17
18
19 THE COURT: All right. On the record
20 in Causes in Dallas County F-96-39972, which is now Kerr
21 County Cause A-96252 and Dallas County F-96-39973, which
22 is now Kerr County Cause A-96253, both styled the State
23 of Texas versus Darlie Lynn Routier, who is present in
24 court, with her attorneys Mr. Doug Parks and Wayne Huff.
25 The State being represented by Mr.

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 7

1 Greg Davis, and Mr. Toby Shook and Ms. Sherri Wallace.
2 And the purposes of this hearing today we have before the
3 Court a Motion for Substitution of Counsel filed by Mr.
4 Douglas Mulder. And so, it is your motion Mr. Mulder.
5 Go ahead, please.
6 MR. DOUGLAS MULDER: Judge, I have
7 filed the motion and I would ask the Court to rule on it.
8 The motion speaks for itself.
9 THE COURT: The motion states that
10 Mrs. Routier -- you have been retained by the defendant
11 in connection with this cause; is that correct?
12 MR. DOUGLAS MULDER: By the
13 defendant's family.
14 THE COURT: Well, I understand that
15 you have been retained to represent Mrs. Routier in this
16 case?
17 MR. DOUGLAS MULDER: Yes, sir, with
18 your permission.
19 THE COURT: And you will represent her
20 for all purposes?
21 MR. DOUGLAS MULDER: For all trial
22 purposes.
23 THE COURT: I understand, for all
24 trial purposes.
25 You are prepared to come into the

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 8

1 trial right now, with no delays or anything like that; is
2 that correct?
3 MR. DOUGLAS MULDER: Judge, no
4 foreseeable delays.
5 THE COURT: We understand what you are
6 saying. In other words, we're picking a jury, we're
7 starting our jury selection today, so you are prepared to
8 go forward with that; is that correct?
9 MR. DOUGLAS MULDER: Yes, sir, at this
10 time we are.
11 THE COURT: All right.
12 MR. DOUGLAS MULDER: I understand the
13 actual jury selection is to begin the 28th.
14 THE COURT: Well, this is orientation,
15 you will have to be here for that. Do you understand
16 that?
17 MR. DOUGLAS MULDER: Yes, I am here.
18 THE COURT: If you are not here, we
19 will have Mr. Curtis Glover, Mr. Richard Mosty, or Mr.
20 Preston Douglass, Jr. One of those attorneys will be
21 here representing Mrs. Routier.
22 MR. DOUGLAS MULDER: Yes, sir, one
23 will be here at all times.
24 THE COURT: Okay. That is all we're
25 saying.

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 9

1 All right. Do you in any way -- so
2 your arrangement as a consultant with Ms. Kee is
3 terminated; is that correct?
4 MR. DOUGLAS D. MULDER: Well, I think
5 it's expanded, Judge.
6 THE COURT: All right. But you are --
7 I understand what you are saying, but you are going to
8 represent Mrs. Routier for all purposes?
9 MR. DOUGLAS D. MULDER: Yes, sir, for
10 the trial.
11 THE COURT: All right. Well, let me
12 ask the defendant, Mrs. Routier, you must state whom you
13 want to be your counsel. Have you had a chance to
14 discuss that?
15 THE DEFENDANT: Yes, I have.
16 THE COURT: All right. Do you want
17 Mr. Parks and Mr. Huff to remain as your counsel, or do
18 you want Mr. Mulder to come in as your counsel?
19 THE DEFENDANT: I have decided that
20 Mr. Mulder is to represent me.
21 THE COURT: All right. If there is
22 any potential conflict with Mr. Mulder representing you
23 and being a consultant to Ms. Kee, do you waive any
24 potential conflict that might exist?
25 THE DEFENDANT: I'm not sure if I

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 10

1 understand.
2 MR. DOUGLAS D. MULDER: He wants to
3 know if you give up any claim to a conflict, in so far as
4 I represent your mother as a consultant.
5 THE DEFENDANT: No, there is no
6 conflict.
7 THE COURT: So, you will waive any
8 conflict that might exist; is that correct?
9 THE DEFENDANT: Yes, sir.
10 THE COURT: You want Mr. Mulder to
11 come into the case right now; is that correct?
12 THE DEFENDANT: Yes, sir.
13 THE COURT: All right. Does the
14 defense have anything?
15 MR. DOUGLAS PARKS: Nothing.
16 MR. WAYNE HUFF: No, sir. Not at all,
17 Your Honor.
18 THE COURT: All right. Now, you are
19 stating unequivocally, ma'am, you want Mr. Mulder to
20 represent you in this trial for all purposes, from here
21 on, without -- with the other attorneys he has with him.
22 THE DEFENDANT: Yes, sir.
23 THE COURT: All right. Well, the
24 Motion for Substitution of Counsel will be granted and we
25 will proceed right now.

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 11

1 May I see both sides up here just a
2 minute here. Who is going to stay?
3 Off the record.
4 (Whereupon, a short
5 Discussion was held
6 Off the record, after
7 Which time the
8 Proceedings were resumed
9 As follows:)
10 MR. DOUGLAS PARKS: May we be excused,
11 Your Honor?
12 THE COURT: Yes, you may. All right.
13 That is fine. Is that satisfactory?
14 MR. DOUGLAS PARKS: Sure.
15 MR. WAYNE HUFF: Yes, sir, sure.
16 THE COURT: All right. And, Mrs.
17 Routier, one last thing. I also appointed Mr. Blake
18 Withrow to represent you for appellate matters. Do you
19 wish him to be discharged too; is that correct?
20 THE DEFENDANT: Yes, sir.
21 THE COURT: All right. Fine. All
22 right. That is fine. All right.
23 (Whereupon, a short
24 Discussion was held
25 Off the record, after

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 12

1 Which time the
2 Proceedings were resumed
3 As follows:)
4 THE COURT: All right. Well, what is
5 going to happen now is, we're waiting for the jury to
6 come in from downstairs and we will get them up here.
7 When they get here we will orient them, everyone is
8 welcome to stay, but if we load this room up with people,
9 that might be possibly a little crowded.
10 So, that is where we are.
11 All right. But what is going to
12 happen this morning is this: They are merely going to be
13 oriented and told what jurors do, and then they are going
14 to be brought back and we will start next Monday for
15 individual examination of each juror.
16 MR. RICHARD MOSTY: Your Honor, is
17 there a questionnaire?
18 THE COURT: There is a questionnaire,
19 we will give them today. We have two of you that are
20 more familiar with this procedure down here than I am,
21 but we have two sections of jurors coming in today. They
22 will get juror questionnaires filled out, and Ms. Uecker
23 has informed me they will get them done today.
24 MR. RICHARD MOSTY: Then she will
25 reshuffle them.

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 13

1 THE COURT: Right. And then, with
2 regards to any kind of excuses or anything, we will rule
3 on them at the time.
4 All right.
5 (Whereupon, a short
6 Discussion was held
7 Off record, after which
8 Proceedings were resumed
9 As follows:)
10 THE COURT: Why don't we go ahead and
11 arraign her at this time.
12 Let's go on the record in the Darlie Lynn
13 Routier matter. These proceedings are being held outside
14 the presence of any potential jurors. All of the parties
15 in the trial are present.
16 Cause F-96-39973, Dallas County which is
17 Kerr County number A-96-253, styled The State of Texas
18 versus Darlie Lynn Routier in which you are charged with
19 the offense of capital murder. The penalty range being
20 life confinement in the state penitentiary or death by
21 lethal injection depending on which set of the
22 circumstances the jury might find to be true in this
23 case.
24 Do you understand what you are charged with
25 and the possible penalty ranges in this case?

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 14

1 THE DEFENDANT: Yes, sir.
2 THE COURT: If you would be kind enough to
3 read the indictment, Mr. Shook.
4 MR. TOBY SHOOK: Yes, sir.
5 MR. DOUGLAS MULDER: We would, Your Honor,
6 waive formal reading of the indictment.
7 THE COURT: Well, I understand, but we want
8 to go ahead and read it to make sure we are all on the
9 same track.
10 MR. DOUGLAS MULDER: Yes, sir.
11 MR. TOBY SHOOK: True bill of indictment,
12 "In the name and by the authority of the State of Texas,
13 the Grand Jury of Dallas County, State of Texas, duly
14 organized at the January term, A.D. 1996, in the 194th
15 Judicial District Court of Dallas County, in said court
16 at said term, do present that one Darlie Lynn Routier --"
17 is that your name?
18 THE DEFENDANT: Yes, sir.
19 MR. TOBY SHOOK: "The defendant, on or about
20 the 6th day of June, A.D. 1996, in the County of Dallas
21 in said State, did unlawfully, intentionally and
22 knowingly cause the death of Damon Christian Routier, an
23 individual, hereinafter called deceased, by stabbing said
24 Damon Christian Routier with a knife, and the deceased
25 was at the time of the offense under six years of age,

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 15

1 against the peace and dignity of the State." Signed by
2 John Vance, Criminal District Attorney of Dallas County,
3 Texas, and by the foreman of the grand jury.
4 THE COURT: To the indictment, Mr. Mulder,
5 how does your client plead?
6 MR. DOUGLAS MULDER: Not guilty.
7 THE COURT: Fine. All right. We will start
8 bringing the jury in for orientation.
9
10 (Whereupon, a short recess
11 was taken, after which, the
12 proceedings were resumed in
13 the presence of the defendant
14 and her attorneys as follows:)
15
16 THE COURT: All right. This is back
17 on the record after the arraignment of Darlie Lynn
18 Routier. We are waiting on the jury panel to be brought
19 into the courtroom.
20 What I intend to do is this: Tell the
21 jurors why we're here, tell them something about the
22 case, and read the indictment and make sure they
23 understand why they are here, and tell them about the
24 things that I have to tell them about, tell them about
25 reasonable doubt, presumption of innocence, and burden of

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 16

1 proof.
2 MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY: When you do
3 them in Dallas, do you qualify the panel, and then send
4 the panel to the courtroom?
5 THE COURT: Yes.
6 MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY: The defendant
7 is not present when you qualify the panel?
8 THE COURT: Oh, yes.
9 MR. GREG DAVIS: Oh, yes.
10 THE COURT: All right. But what we're
11 doing is, I will swear them in, but we will just go right
12 down the list here and I will introduce everybody here,
13 and then the last thing I will do is take up the
14 exemptions and the qualifications and tell them the
15 difference, and we have -- most of them have already been
16 weeded out, so we should not have too many of those.
17 But I will just go through what I have
18 to tell them.
19 MR. DOUGLAS MULDER: Are you going to
20 tell them the timeframe of the case?
21 THE COURT: Oh, yes, I'll tell them
22 all that, sure.
23 MR. DOUGLAS MULDER: What about not
24 introducing the defendant?
25 THE COURT: I will have her stand up.

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 17

1 I have already told them, Mr. Mulder,
2 I don't think this will be a significant thing, what
3 color hair the defendant has. I really don't -- but at
4 any rate, that is what we're going to be doing.
5 MR. DOUGLAS MULDER: Well, Judge, you
6 told me you would see to it that she --
7 THE COURT: Well, I didn't tell you I
8 would do it, I said I would not object to it. I said
9 whatever the Sheriff can do to get her hair fixed with is
10 fine with me. Whenever they can do it is fine with me.
11 MR. DOUGLAS MULDER: I didn't mean
12 that you would do it yourself.
13 THE COURT: Well, believe me, I know
14 that.
15 MR. DOUGLAS MULDER: Yes, sir.
16 THE COURT: Nor would I order anyone
17 to do it. Whatever they call that business, if they want
18 to get it done, is fine with me.
19 All right. I will sign the Order.
20 MR. DOUGLAS MULDER: Who is to prepare
21 the order, Your Honor?
22 THE COURT: I have no idea. Whoever
23 wants to prepare it, may prepare it. I will sign it, and
24 whatever we call it, they will get it done.
25 MR. DOUGLAS MULDER: I will call it --

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 18

1 I will call it the Order to Prepare Hair.
2 THE COURT: Well, my daughter calls it
3 getting her roots dyed.
4 MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY: All right. Is
5 this in the 198th or 216th?
6 THE COURT: This is the 216th.
7 MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY: All right.
8 THE COURT: All right. Let's put this
9 on the record.
10 I am informing all members of the
11 defense team that you are under the gag order, and that
12 will include Mr. Mulder, who I know will abide by this
13 order, and I know Mr. Glover will, and I know Mr. Mosty
14 and Mr. Douglass will as well.
15 MR. DOUGLAS MULDER: Yes, sir.
16 MR. RICHARD MOSTY: Yes, sir.
17 MR. PRESTON DOUGLASS: Yes, sir.
18 THE COURT: All right. So, let's all
19 observe the gag order.
20 MR. DOUGLAS D. MULDER: Yes, sir.
21 THE COURT: All right. Let's bring
22 the jury in.
23 (Whereupon, the jury
24 panel was seated
25 in the courtroom, and

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 19

1 the proceedings were
2 resumed on the record,
3 in the presence of the
4 defendant, and in open
5 court, as follows:)
6 THE COURT: All right. Let's go on
7 the record.
8 Good morning, ladies and gentlemen,
9 and welcome to the Kerr County Courthouse. You have been
10 called here today as prospective jurors in a capital
11 murder case transferred here from Dallas County on a
12 change of venue.
13 My name is Mark Tolle, I am a district
14 judge in Dallas sitting by assignment in this case.
15 You are going to be asked some
16 questions today, so the first thing I am going to do is
17 ask you to raise your right hand and swear you in.
18
19 (Whereupon, the jury panel
20 was sworn to true answers
21 give to questions propounded
22 to them, after which the
23 proceedings were resumed
24 on the record as follows:)
25

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 20

1 THE COURT: Do you and each of you
2 solemnly swear or affirm that you will true answers make
3 to all questions propounded to you concerning your
4 qualifications as jurors in this courtroom, or any
5 courtroom, or room to which you may be sent, so help you
6 God?
7 THE JURORS: I do.
8 THE COURT: All right. Thank you.
9 You may be seated.
10 Did everybody turn in their jury
11 questionnaires?
12 THE JURORS: Yes.
13 THE COURT: All right. Good. Fine.
14 Thank you.
15 Did anybody not turn in their
16 questionnaire?
17 Okay. We got one more down there. If
18 you will hold up your hand, Officer Zumwalt will get it
19 from you.
20 DEPUTY ZUMWALT: All right.
21 THE COURT: Okay. The name of today's
22 case is the State of Texas versus Darlie Lynn Routier,
23 that is spelled: D-A-R-L-I-E, L-Y-N-N, R-O-U-T-I-E-R.
24 Will you stand up please, Mrs. Routier.
25 This is Darlie Lynn Routier, the

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 21

1 defendant in today's case, the citizen accused, the
2 individual who is on trial. Thank you very much, ma'am,
3 you may be seated.
4 Let me introduce the other
5 participants in today's proceedings: The State of Texas
6 is represented by Greg Davis, Mr. Toby Shook and Ms.
7 Sherri Wallace.
8 They are assistant district attorneys
9 from the Dallas County District Attorney's Office. They
10 will be representing the State of Texas in this case.
11 The defense was represented by Mr.
12 Douglas Parks and Mr. Wayne Huff and Mr. Blake Withrow,
13 but at the defense's request they have been substituted
14 this morning, and the lawyers representing Mrs. Routier
15 now are, Mr. Douglas Mulder; Mr. Curtis Glover, Mr.
16 Richard Mosty, Mr. Preston Douglass and Mr. John Hagler.
17 Mr. Hagler is not present at the
18 present time, but he will be joining us later in this
19 case.
20 You are going to see some bailiffs in
21 the courtroom: Ms. Jan Biggerstaff right there; Mr.
22 Keith Birdsong and Mr. Marion Biggerstaff in the back.
23 They are deputy sheriff's from Dallas County and they
24 will be the bailiffs for this trial. Those of you
25 selected to serve on this jury will be under their care

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 22

1 during this trial.
2 The young lady in the front is Mrs.
3 Sandra Halsey. She is my official court reporter, so we
4 will ask you to raise your voice so we can hear
5 everything you are saying, if we should ask you some
6 questions.
7 And, of course, we all know Ms. Uecker
8 on my left who is the District Clerk and, Carrie Whitt
9 from the District Clerk's office.
10 All right. Darlie Lynn Routier is
11 charged with the offense of capital murder. The penalty
12 range for capital murder depends upon what set of
13 circumstances the jury might find to be true.
14 If the jury finds one set of
15 circumstances to be true, the penalty range would be life
16 confinement in the state penitentiary. If the jury finds
17 a second set of circumstances to be true, the penalty
18 range will be death by lethal injection. The State in
19 this case is seeking the death penalty.
20 Now, the true bill of indictment in
21 this case reads as follows: "In the name and by the
22 authority of the State of Texas, the Grand Jury of Dallas
23 County, State of Texas, duly organized at the January
24 term, A.D. 1996, of the 194th Judicial District Court of
25 Dallas County, in said court, at said term, do present

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 23

1 that one Darlie Lynn Routier, the defendant, on or about
2 the 6th day of June of 1996, in the County of Dallas and
3 said state, did unlawfully, then and there, intentionally
4 and knowingly cause the death of Damon Christian Routier,
5 an individual, hereinafter called the deceased, by
6 stabbing the said Damon Christian Routier with a knife,
7 and the deceased was, at the time of the offense, under
8 six years of age. Against the peace and dignity of the
9 State."
10 And that is signed by John Vance,
11 Criminal District Attorney of Dallas County, Texas and
12 Ray Paul, Sr., the foreman of the Grand Jury.
13 Now, when a trial starts, the Code of
14 Criminal Procedure requires that the trial judge tell the
15 prospective jury as to what the defendant is charged
16 with, and the possible penalty range in the case. That
17 is in no way to infer any guilt or imply any guilt on the
18 part of Mrs. Routier as she sits there right now.
19 As she sits there now, she is presumed
20 to be innocent, not guilty. That is a presumption which
21 attaches to any defendant in an American courtroom. If
22 we were to take the first 12 of you ladies and gentlemen
23 and put you in the jury box over there, and I asked the
24 State if they had any testimony or evidence and they
25 said, "No, sir, we don't." And I asked the defense what

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 24

1 they had and they said, "We don't have anything either,
2 Judge."
3 Then if we asked you how you would
4 vote, you have to vote not guilty, because you have not
5 heard anything, and presumption of innocence alone is
6 sufficient to acquit a defendant.
7 Now, we call that the presumption of
8 innocence. A presumption which may be removed by the
9 State introducing evidence. We call that the burden of
10 proof. The burden of proof in Texas is beyond a
11 reasonable doubt. It is always on the State and never
12 shifts to the defendant. I repeat, the burden of proof
13 is always on the State and never shifts to the defendant.
14 Reasonable doubt means, that is a
15 doubt based on common sense, after careful, impartial
16 consideration of all of the evidence in the case. It is
17 the kind of doubt that would make a reasonable person
18 hesitate to act in the most important of his own affairs.
19 Proof of reasonable doubt must be
20 proof of such a convincing character that you would rely
21 to act upon it without hesitation. The prosecutor has
22 the burden of proving each and every element charged in
23 the indictment, beyond a reasonable doubt. They are not
24 required to prove the allegations beyond all doubt, but
25 their proof must exclude all reasonable doubt concerning

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 25

1 the defendant's guilt.
2 Now, as I said, the burden of proof
3 never shifts to the defendant. For our purpose now --
4 you will get a detailed definition of the other
5 terminology later on in our proceedings. But for our
6 purposes now, you must state that you will listen to the
7 testimony and review the evidence, and if you feel that
8 the State has proven its case, then you will be able to
9 find the defendant guilty; and if you find that they
10 haven't proven the case, then you will find the defendant
11 not guilty.
12 If you find the defendant not guilty,
13 everyone goes home. If you find the defendant guilty,
14 then it's incumbent upon you to set the punishment
15 somewhere within the range provided for by law, which I
16 have just explained to you.
17 Now, trials in Texas have two phases,
18 a guilt or innocence phase and a punishment phase, if
19 necessary. We're in the jury selection portion of the
20 guilt or innocence phase.
21 What is going to happen this morning
22 is, I am going to ask you some questions, and then you
23 are going to be asked to fill out a questionnaire. And
24 as soon as you fill out the questionnaire, you will be
25 able to leave. Then you will be called up individually

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 26

1 to come in and set a time for the attorneys to ask
2 individual questions of you, in this particular case, to
3 see your qualifications as jurors, and whether you will
4 be selected as one or not.
5 Now, the first thing I'm going to ask
6 is: Does anybody in this courtroom know anybody here?
7 Does anybody? Well, I mean, I assume we are going to see
8 the two attorneys from Kerrville. Well, let's get on the
9 people from Dallas first. Does anybody know the original
10 attorneys for Mrs. Routier, Mr. Douglas Parks, Mr. Wayne
11 Huff or Mr. Blake Withrow?
12 Let the record reflect that no hands
13 were raised. Does anybody know Mr. Douglas Mulder or Mr.
14 Curtis Glover from Dallas, the defense attorneys for Mrs.
15 Routier now? And now, we will ask for Mr. Richard Mosty
16 and Mr. Preston Douglass. I assume we will have a lot of
17 hands. How many know these two gentlemen?
18 All right. Thank you. Let the record
19 reflect that several hands were raised.
20 All right. Very well. And nobody --
21 I am not acquainted with anybody here. Nobody knows me
22 or Ms. Halsey or any of our bailiffs, or anyone like
23 that? Does anybody know any of the State's attorneys
24 from Dallas?
25 Let the record reflect that no hands

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 27

1 were raised. Anybody know Mr. John Hagler, who is an
2 attorney for the defense and may be coming down here
3 later?
4 Let the record reflect that no hands
5 were raised.
6 So, the only hands raised were on Mr.
7 Mosty and Mr. Douglass, the two local attorneys.
8 Is there anything about that
9 knowledge, about knowing Mr. Mosty or Mr. Douglass, which
10 you think would make you an unfair juror in any way?
11 Let the record reflect that no hands
12 were raised.
13 Now, there are certain things that I
14 have to speak to you about. We have gone over the
15 presumption of innocence, and that is that this defendant
16 is presumed innocent and is not guilty until proven
17 guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.
18 We have gone over the burden of proof.
19 The burden of proof in Texas is beyond a reasonable
20 doubt. And it never shifts -- and the fact is that it
21 never shifts from the State to the defense. All Mrs.
22 Routier has to do is show up when this trial starts, and
23 she has done that.
24 The next thing we have to do, is
25 that -- is that Mrs. Routier has been indicted by a

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 28

1 Dallas County jury. I have already read that to you.
2 You are going to receive an instruction that the
3 indictment is no evidence of guilt. Why is a grand jury
4 indictment no evidence of guilt?
5 In Dallas County, the grand jury in
6 Dallas County issues right at twenty-five thousand felony
7 indictments a year. Any one of us sitting in this
8 courtroom, any one of us can be indicted by a Grand Jury,
9 state or federal, and perhaps never know that we are
10 under investigation. How many were not aware of that?
11 Yes?
12 All right.
13 We may know when we are under
14 investigation and want to tell our story to the grand
15 jury. The grand jury does not have to listen to us.
16 We may tell our story to the grand
17 jury, and the grand jury says there is nothing to it. We
18 will throw that out. We call it a no bill.
19 Is that the end of the case? Not
20 necessarily. It may be taken back to another grand jury
21 and then an indictment issued at that time.
22 Grand jury indictments are neutral.
23 All they do is tell the State what they have to prove and
24 tell the defendant what the defense is charged with.
25 Grand jury -- if grand jury

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 29

1 indictments were evidence of anything, we wouldn't need
2 the system, so I am instructing you that a grand jury
3 indictment is no evidence of guilt.
4 The next thing we want to talk about
5 is opinion testimony. May I see a show of hands in here
6 about how many of you have heard of this case?
7 All right.
8
9 (Whereupon, several hands
10 were raised in open court.)
11
12
13 THE COURT: All right. Is there
14 anyone here who has formed an opinion as to the guilt or
15 innocence of this defendant as a result of what they have
16 heard?
17 All right. Well let's go -- we can't
18 get them all at one time. All right. So, if we could
19 start in the first row, anybody there?
20 All right. If you can, if you have
21 done that we can save time this morning. If you would
22 just note that individually in the questionnaire when you
23 fill them out.
24 Can I see a show of those hands that
25 they have an opinion? Okay. Of you ladies and

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 30

1 gentlemen, if you will just note that on your
2 questionnaire when you fill that out. Fair enough.
3 Okay. That will save some time this
4 morning. Is that satisfactory with both sides?
5 MR. GREG DAVIS: Yes, sir
6 MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY: Yes, sir.
7 THE COURT: All right.
8 Now, I want to talk a minute about the
9 defendant's Fifth Amendment right. Let's go back to high
10 school civics. We have the Constitution of the United
11 States. The first ten amendments are the Bill of Rights.
12 The Fifth Amendment states that no defendant in an
13 American courtroom can be required to be a witness
14 against himself or herself.
15 In other words, Mrs. Routier may or
16 may not testify in this case. That is not just her
17 right, that is all of our rights, if we were sitting
18 where she is.
19 The State has done the accusing and
20 the State has to do the proving. I have no earthly idea
21 what Mrs. Routier will do. If she elects to testify, or
22 if she wants to testify no one can stop her. If she
23 elects not to testify, no one can make her. If she
24 testifies, she is to be considered like any other
25 witness. What is her demeanor on the witness stand?

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 31

1 Does it look like she is telling the truth? What does
2 she have to gain or lose by testifying the way she is
3 testifying? Because as a juror, you can believe all of
4 what one witness says, part of what a second witness
5 says, and none of what a third witness says.
6 Some people still say that, they say,
7 well, I know if I were charged with capital murder, I
8 would get up and say something. Well, that is fine.
9 That is a right that you have, and you can if you want
10 to. But she does not have to, and she may or may not, I
11 don't know. But the important thing is, you cannot hold
12 it against her for any reason whatsoever, if she elects
13 not to testify.
14 Now, some people may hold it against
15 her if she elects not to testify. Can I see a show of
16 hands of anybody who would hold it against her if she
17 elects not to testify? No hands were raised. If you
18 would, please note that on your questionnaire also.
19 Now, the timeframe of this case is
20 this: We're starting the jury selection next Monday.
21 You will be given an individual time to appear. And if
22 you will be on time, we will be here on time and we will
23 get you out as soon as possible.
24 When the jury is selected, we
25 anticipate the trial itself starting on the first Monday

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 32

1 in January, which I believe is -- the first full Monday
2 is -- which I believe is January 6th, whatever it is. I
3 think my calendar is right, and I think that I remember
4 that date correctly.
5 January 6th. It will be tried at that
6 time. So, if you have some place to go over Christmas
7 and you are selected as jurors, you will get to go. If
8 you want to see the ballgames or anything, just so you
9 are back in time for January 6th. We are happy to do it,
10 no problem there.
11 Now, we're going to go over some
12 qualifications and exemptions. Now, the qualifications
13 and exemptions work like this: Exemptions are what you
14 may claim if you want to. If you are disqualified, you
15 cannot sit for any reason whatsoever. Because, if you
16 are disqualified, that simply means that you are -- you
17 don't sit. If you are disqualified from sitting, and you
18 somehow get on the jury, then that requires the entire
19 case to be done all over again.
20 Now, we don't want that to happen.
21 So, to be a qualified juror, you must be at least 18
22 years of age. Is there anybody here that is not 18 years
23 old? No hands were raised.
24 You must be a citizen of Kerr County.
25 Anybody who does not live in Kerr County? Let the record

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 33

1 reflect that no hands were raised before.
2 You must be a United States citizen.
3 Any prospective jurors here who is not a United States
4 citizen?
5 Your name please, sir?
6 THE JUROR: Saul Ramos.
7 THE COURT: Saul Ramos. That is
8 R-A-M-O-S; is that correct?
9 THE JUROR: Yes.
10 THE DISTRICT CLERK: He is juror
11 number 222.
12 THE COURT: Thank you. All right.
13 You are a citizen of --
14 THE JUROR: Mexico
15 THE COURT: Mexico?
16 THE JUROR: Yes.
17 THE COURT: All right. Thank you.
18 All right.
19 Thank you, sir. That will excuse you.
20 Now, the man on the back row? Your
21 name, sir?
22 THE JUROR: Rosalio.
23 THE DISTRICT CLERK: Juror number 313.
24 THE COURT: R-O-S-A-L-I-O, and last
25 name is, S-A-R-I-N-A-N-A-S.

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 34

1 You are a citizen of --
2 THE JUROR: Mexico.
3 THE COURT: All right. All right.
4 Way in the back I think I saw a hand. Please project
5 your voice so we can all hear you.
6 THE JUROR: Yes, V-I-L-A-V-O-N-G.
7 THE COURT: That is your name, your
8 last name?
9 THE JUROR: First name.
10 THE COURT: What is your last name,
11 sir?
12 THE JUROR: K-I-K-H-A-M-S-O-U-K.
13 THE COURT: K-I-K --
14 THE JUROR: K-I-K-H-A-M-S-O-U-K.
15 THE COURT: You are from what country?
16 THE DISTRICT CLERK: If he has his
17 card -- what is that number? You have your number on
18 your juror card there.
19 THE JUROR: Number 204.
20 THE COURT: All right. Juror number
21 204. Thank you.
22 All right. Anybody else who is not a
23 citizen?
24 Thank you, sir. You may be seated.
25 Now, the next question usually gets

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 35

1 some chuckles. You must be of sound mind and good moral
2 character. Anybody want to raise your hand on that one?
3 Either one? Either one? We take sound minds first and
4 moral characters later.
5 All right. Thank you very much. No
6 hands were raised on that one.
7 All right. You must be able to read
8 and write. That does not mean you have to have a Ph.D.
9 in English literature, it simply means that you have read
10 your summons to get here, and can sign your name, you can
11 read and write for our purposes. Anybody here who is not
12 able to read or write? Let the record reflect that no
13 hands were raised.
14 Now, you must not have served more
15 than five days in a county court jury during this last
16 three months, or in a district court during the last six
17 months. Is there anybody here who would fall under that
18 disqualification?
19 Let the record reflect that no hands
20 were raised.
21 You must never have been convicted of
22 a felony. A felony is an offense which is punishable by
23 imprisonment in the state penitentiary as opposed to a
24 misdemeanor which gets jail time. Is there anybody who
25 has been convicted of a felony?

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 36

1 All right. Let's go up here. First
2 name, sir?
3 THE JUROR: Daniel Wolfe.
4 THE COURT: Daniel Wolfe.
5 THE JUROR: Yes, sir.
6 THE COURT: You are juror number 214.
7 All right. Thank you, sir.
8 All right, the next one. We will
9 start -- I saw a hand right here. Yes, ma'am.
10 THE JUROR: Juror 99, Delgadillo.
11 THE COURT: All right.
12 Thank you, ma'am. I saw a hand way
13 back in the back. Yes, sir. Can you give us your name?
14 THE JUROR: Yes, sir, I have been
15 convicted of a felony; Homero.
16 THE COURT: Your last name?
17 THE JUROR: Caldarone.
18 THE COURT: Would you spell that,
19 please, sir?
20 THE JUROR: C-A-L-D-A-R-O-N-E, and the
21 first name is Homero.
22 THE COURT: All right.
23 THE JUROR: I am number 190.
24 THE COURT: All right. Thank you,
25 sir.

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 37

1 All right. All right. That is number
2 99, Ms. Delgadillo; and number 214, Mr. Wolfe; and number
3 190, Mr. Caldarone.
4 All right. You must not be under
5 legal accusation at the current time for any theft or
6 felony. Anybody here under any legal accusation of theft
7 or felony at the current time? Let the record reflect
8 that no hands were raised.
9 That takes care of disqualifications.
10 Now, exemptions work this way: You
11 may claim an exemption if you want to, you don't have to
12 do it. We're going to go over exemptions now,
13 You may claim an exemption if you are
14 over 65 years of age. I always ask people not to do that
15 because you have the kind of life experience that is
16 necessary to try cases like this, that we're going to be
17 trying, and we urge you to stay on. None the less, you
18 may claim an exemption if you are over 65 years of age.
19 Is there anybody here who is over 65 years of age?
20 All right. Sir, do you wish to claim
21 an exemption?
22 THE JUROR: No.
23 THE COURT: Was there another hand
24 there?
25 THE JUROR: Yes, but no, no.

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 38

1 THE COURT: All right. You sir?
2 THE JUROR: No.
3 THE COURT: All right. All right.
4 Thank you. We have three ladies and gentlemen who are
5 over 65 and neither of them wish to claim their
6 exemption. Thank you, sir.
7 Now, you may claim an exemption if you
8 have custody of a child under ten years of age and must
9 leave the child without adequate care. Is there anybody
10 who falls in that category?
11 THE JUROR: This is kind of -- I am
12 due to deliver December 27th.
13 THE COURT: Well, you are almost
14 there. Your name, ma'am?
15 THE JUROR: Lori Werckle.
16 THE COURT: Would you spell that,
17 please?
18 THE JUROR: W-E-R-C-K-L-E.
19 THE DISTRICT CLERK: Number 41.
20 THE COURT: W-E-R-C-K-L-E.
21 Delivery, 12-27. We will take that up
22 when we're through with this proceeding. Fair enough?
23 THE JUROR: Sure.
24 THE COURT: All right. Anybody else?
25 All right. Okay. The one in the middle right there.

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 39

1 Speak up. Can you stand up please, ma'am?
2 THE JUROR: My name is Daryl Schladoer
3 and I have a ten year old son, and I don't have anyone to
4 watch him in the afternoon.
5 THE COURT: We will take that up with
6 you in a few minutes then. All right. And, the hand
7 right over here?
8 THE JUROR: I have got a handicapped,
9 hearing-impaired child.
10 THE COURT: What is your name?
11 THE JUROR: Angela Valenzuela.
12 THE COURT: Okay.
13 THE DISTRICT CLERK: That was number
14 114.
15 THE COURT: And the last but not least
16 back there.
17 THE JUROR: I am number 129 and I have
18 a little five and a ten year old that I have no care for
19 them after three o'clock.
20 THE COURT: All right. Your name?
21 THE JUROR: Yes, sir, Monica Valdez
22 Martin.
23 THE COURT: All right. Thank you.
24 Anybody else?
25 All right. If you are a high school

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 40

1 student or attending college you may claim an exemption.
2 Any high school students? Anybody? No hands were
3 raised. Anybody attending college? No hands were
4 raised.
5 If you are an officer or employee of a
6 branch of the legislature or State government. Let the
7 record reflect that no hands were raised.
8 You are primary caretaker of an
9 invalid.
10 Your name, ma'am?
11 THE JUROR: Connie Vasquez.
12 THE COURT: V-A-S-Q-U-E-Z?
13 THE JUROR: Correct.
14 THE COURT: Connie Vasquez. What is
15 your number, ma'am?
16 THE JUROR: Number 20.
17 THE COURT: All right. I will call
18 those up later.
19 All right. That takes care of
20 qualifications and exemptions. Let me make sure we have
21 covered everything. All right. Either side want
22 anything else covered?
23 MR. TOBY SHOOK: Not at this time,
24 Judge.
25 THE COURT: Do you want anything else

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 41

1 covered?
2 MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY: No, sir.
3 THE COURT: All right. Kerr County
4 is -- we're happy to be down here. You are much more
5 advanced than Dallas County. I have received a note not
6 to let anyone leave unless you get paid.
7 All right. The questionnaires, of
8 course, will be filed out first.
9 What is going to happen now is, I'm
10 going to have Ms. -- I'll have those jurors, the ones
11 that had exemptions and disqualifications, all of those
12 who answered affirmatively to the questions, if they will
13 come forward so we can talk about that individually,
14 and -- well, let's make a line over here at my right.
15 Now, we will give you some
16 questionnaires. I believe they are ready to hand out
17 now. Also, those of you who finish with your
18 questionnaires, you may go ahead and leave. Just be sure
19 to collect your money on the way out, is that right?
20 THE DISTRICT CLERK: Yes, sir.
21 THE COURT: Anybody else want to talk
22 about excuses? All right. Everybody does. Yes. All
23 right. Here is the thing, I cannot excuse anybody for
24 work, and I tell them this in Dallas all the time too,
25 but everybody still comes up.

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 42

1 So, if you have a work excuse, please
2 save yourself to last because unfortunately I cannot
3 excuse you for work. If you are going to be on a trip, I
4 think we will have ample time to work around that. I
5 don't see any problem with that. But we're happy to talk
6 to each one if they want to talk about that.
7 MR. RICHARD MOSTY: Judge, if they
8 have a conviction, they can note that on their
9 questionnaire.
10 THE COURT: If anyone has a
11 conviction, then you can note that on your questionnaire.
12 It will save a lot of time.
13 In fact, we can do all these others on
14 the questionnaires, too. All right. Why don't we do it
15 this way: To save everybody time, if everyone, including
16 jurors Werckle, Schladoer, and Valenzuela, and Vasquez
17 (sic) will merely note that on their questionnaire, they
18 can be taken up individually at that time, and it's going
19 to facilitate matters and I think it will move on a lot
20 quicker. And Ms. Werkle, you are okay until December,
21 right?
22 THE JUROR: Yes, sir, as far as I
23 know.
24 THE COURT: All right. Good. All
25 right. We're happy to hear that.

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 43

1 If you will note that on your
2 questionnaire, I think that you might want to let them
3 know about that.
4 Now, work excuses are not going to
5 fly. We cannot excuse anybody because they have to work.
6 I am very sorry about that. That is just the law, and I
7 cannot do it. Anybody else from either side?
8 All right. We have two -- I am going
9 to talk now to the people who have a child under ten
10 years of age.
11 THE JUROR: Yes, sir.
12 THE COURT: Anyone that wants to be
13 excused. All right. Ms. Martin. What was your name,
14 sir?
15 THE JUROR: Lynn Baxter.
16 THE COURT: All right.
17 THE JUROR: I have no one to leave my
18 child with.
19 THE COURT: All day?
20 THE JUROR: Not after five o'clock.
21 THE COURT: All right. All right.
22 Five o'clock is okay.
23 All right. There is a lady in the
24 back row who says she doesn't have any supervision for
25 her children. All right. Somebody says something in the

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 44

1 back row? This is for no supervision for a child under
2 ten years of age.
3 MR. RICHARD MOSTY: Juror number 20,
4 Ms. Connie Vasquez.
5 THE JUROR: Yes.
6 THE COURT: And you say that you --
7 your problem is that you have children or an invalid now?
8 THE JUROR: I have a note.
9 THE COURT: Well, just note that on
10 your questionnaire, ma'am, and we can handle that then,
11 please.
12 THE JUROR: All right.
13 THE COURT: All right. Ms. Martin,
14 you have children under ten, also?
15 THE JUROR: Yes, I have a five and ten
16 and a 23 year old.
17 THE COURT: All right.
18 THE JUROR: Yes, Martin. I have a
19 five and a ten year old.
20 THE COURT: All right.
21 THE JUROR: No one after five o'clock
22 to watch them.
23 THE COURT: All right.
24 THE JUROR: They would be left alone
25 about an hour.

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 45

1 THE COURT: Well, if you will note
2 that on your questionnaire also.
3 All right. Normally we are gone by
4 five o'clock, so you won't have any problems about that.
5 All right. Anything else from either
6 side? Have we covered everything? One lady is up with
7 her hand up.
8 THE JUROR: Yes. What about medical?
9 THE COURT: If you will note that on
10 your questionnaire, we're happy to do that, too.
11 We have never really had any problem,
12 but if you are scheduled for surgery or something like
13 that, we're certainly cognizant of that fact.
14 THE JUROR: All right.
15 THE COURT: All right. Let me make
16 sure I have it all done.
17 All right. Good news. If you get a
18 parking ticket around the courthouse today, and you are a
19 juror, Ms. Uecker says that if you will be kind enough to
20 bring the ticket to her, and let her know if you are a
21 juror. Only if you are juror, that counts for today when
22 you are down here.
23 MR. GREG DAVIS: If you could explain,
24 Judge, when they finish it, we will have piles for the
25 numbers. So, we will have a table out there with the

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 46

1 number 1 through 50 or whatever they may be.
2 THE COURT: When you finish your
3 questionnaires, there will be a table outside that you
4 can put your questionnaire in.
5 MR. GREG DAVIS: Yes, sir. And if
6 they will note that they need to put their juror number
7 in the upper right hand corner, please.
8 THE COURT: All right. If you will
9 put your juror number in the upper right hand corner on
10 the questionnaire form. All right. Anything else?
11 MR. GREG DAVIS: No, sir.
12 THE COURT: All right. That about
13 covers it. And if you will just hand the questionnaires
14 out.
15 MR. GREG DAVIS: Yes, sir. Ms.
16 Wallace is going to go to the back, I think they are
17 ready for the questionnaires.
18 THE COURT: All right. Ms. Wallace
19 will get the questionnaires and bring them out, so if you
20 will take some time to file them out now that will be
21 fine, and we appreciate your patience in doing this.
22 MR. TOBY SHOOK: Judge, you might
23 explain to them that the information they put in there is
24 not going to be released.
25 THE COURT: Oh, yes. The information

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 47

1 you put in this questionnaire is confidential and will
2 not be released to the press, and the questionnaires, in
3 due course, will be destroyed.
4 All right. Anything else?
5 MR. GREG DAVIS: No, sir.
6 THE COURT: All right. The following
7 jurors will be excused for non citizenship. That is an
8 absolute disqualification. Mr. Saul Ramos, and Rosalio
9 Sarinanas, and Vilavong Kikhamsouk.
10 All right. You ladies and gentlemen
11 may leave.
12
13 (Whereupon, a short