Volume 5

1 IN THE CRIMINAL DISTRICT COURT NO. 3
2 DALLAS COUNTY, TEXAS
3
4
5
6 THE STATE OF TEXAS }
7 VS: } NO. F-96-39972-J
8 DARLIE LYNN ROUTIER } & F-96-39973-J 9
10
11
12
13 STATEMENT OF FACTS
14 MOTION HEARING
15 TO HOLD DEFENDANT WITHOUT BOND
16 VOL. 5 OF 53 VOLS.
17 August 27, 1996
18 Tuesday
19
20
21
22
23
24
25

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 263

1 C A P T I O N
2
3
4 BE IT REMEMBERED THAT, on Tuesday, the 27th day of
5 August, 1996, in the Criminal District Court Number 3 of
6 Dallas County, Texas, the above-styled cause came on for a
7 hearing before the Hon. Paul Banner, Judge Presiding, and
8 sitting for the Hon. Mark Tolle, Judge of the Criminal
9 District Court No. 3, of Dallas County, Texas, without a
10 jury, and the proceedings were resumed, in open court, as
11 follows:
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 264

1 A P P E A R A N C E S
2
3
4 HON. JOHN VANCE,
5 Criminal District Attorney
6 Dallas County, Texas
7
8 BY: HON. GREG DAVIS
9 Assistant District Attorney
10 Dallas County, Texas
11
12 AND:
13 HON. JOHN GRAU
14 Assistant District Attorney
15 Dallas County, Texas
16
17 AND:
18 HON. SHERRI WALLACE
19 Assistant District Attorney
20 Dallas County, Texas
21
22 APPEARING FOR THE STATE OF TEXAS
23
24
25

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 265

1
2 ADDITIONAL APPEARANCES:
3
4 HON. DOUGLAS PARKS
5 Attorney at Law
6 Dallas County, Texas
7
8 AND:
9 HON. WAYNE HUFF
10 Attorney at Law
11 Dallas County, Texas
12
13 Appearing for the Defendant
14 For the purpose of the trial
15 AND:
16
17 HON. BLAKE WITHROW
18 Attorney at Law
19 Dallas County, Texas
20
21 APPEARING FOR THE DEFENDANT
22 for the purpose of the appeal
23
24
25

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 266

1 P R O C E E D I N G S
2
3 August 27th, 1996
4 Tuesday
5 9:30 a.m.
6
7 (Whereupon, the following
8 proceedings were held in
9 Open court, in the presence
10 And hearing of the
11 Defendant, being
12 represented by her attorneys
13 and the representatives of
14 The State of Texas, but
15 without the presence of a
16 jury, as follows:)
17
18
19 THE COURT: Okay. Back on the record
20 now. All counsel and the defendant are present. This is
21 the second day of testimony in regard to F-96-39972 and
22 73. Are both sides ready to resume?
23 MR. GREG DAVIS: Yes, your Honor.
24 Ms. Wallace has gone back to get Jimmy Patterson. He is
25 back there in the work room.

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 267

1 THE COURT: Okay.
2 MR. GREG DAVIS: And while we are
3 waiting for Detective Patterson; yesterday, Counsel
4 inquired about an offense report that was purportedly
5 prepared by Detective Patterson. I have looked through my
6 records as has Detective Patterson. We can not find an
7 offense report that was actually prepared by him.
8 He has this morning given me certain
9 reports that he did prepare. One is entitled
10 investigative supplement interviews, and I am tendering
11 that 3-page document to Counsel at this time.
12 He has also tendered to me several
13 pages of personal notes. And I am now tendering those to
14 Counsel, and he has also indicated that he has now given
15 me two additional documents entitled "telephone
16 memorandum" that he prepared, and I am now tendering those
17 to Counsel, and those are the reports that he has
18 prepared.
19 THE COURT: All right.
20 MR. WAYNE HUFF: Judge, I'm going to
21 need to go through these. I can proceed with some more
22 questions now.
23 THE COURT: Why don't you do that, then
24 we will take a break when you need one.
25 MR. WAYNE HUFF: That will be fine.

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 268

1 I'm prepared to proceed.
2 THE COURT: Thank you. Go ahead.
3
4
5 Whereupon,
6
7 DETECTIVE JIMMY PATTERSON,
8
9 Resumed the witness stand as a witness for the State of
10 Texas, having been previously duly sworn by the Court, to
11 speak the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the
12 truth, was examined and testified further in open court,
13 as follows:
14
15
16 CROSS EXAMINATION (Resumed)
17
18 BY MR. WAYNE HUFF:
19 Q. Detective Patterson, I believe
20 yesterday we had reached the point where you had taken
21 Mrs. Routier's written statement, and that we had gotten
22 through the procedure for your having done that, and you
23 again met with her on June the 10th; is that correct?
24 A. Yes, sir, I believe that is right, yes,
25 sir.

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 269

1 Q. Did you ask that she came in -- that
2 she come in?
3 A. I'm not sure if we called and asked her
4 to come in or not.
5 Q. All right. Let me turn your attention
6 to the top page of your investigative summary, page 4, and
7 ask you if she was requested to come in?
8 A. Yes, sir, she was.
9 Q. And she did come in?
10 A. Yes, sir.
11 Q. Did she have her husband with her?
12 A. Yes, sir.
13 Q. Were they both interviewed or just her?
14 A. Both of them.
15 Q. All right. Who interviewed her
16 husband?
17 A. Detective Frosch.
18 Q. Okay. And you interviewed Mrs.
19 Routier; is that correct?
20 A. Yes, sir.
21 Q. You asked her to draw a diagram; is
22 that correct?
23 A. Yes, sir.
24 Q. Where is that diagram?
25 A. It's in the report.

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 270

1 Q. In this report?
2 A. No -- is that the affidavit?
3 Q. No. Is it in the affidavit for arrest
4 warrant?
5 A. Yes, sir.
6 Q. Okay. Is that what is referred to as
7 Exhibit A?
8 A. Yes, sir.
9
10 MR. WAYNE HUFF: Your Honor, our copy
11 of the affidavit for arrest warrant never had that exhibit
12 on it. We would ask that we be provided with that.
13 MR. GREG DAVIS: If I could approach
14 the witness for just a moment, your Honor?
15 THE COURT: You may.
16
17
18 VOIR DIRE EXAMINATION
19
20 BY MR. GREG DAVIS:
21 Q. Detective Patterson, I am now showing
22 you a document, and -- if you will, please mark that as
23 State's Exhibit D.
24
25 (Whereupon, the above

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 271

1 mentioned item was
2 marked for
3 identification only,
4 as State's Exhibit D,
5 after which time the
6 proceedings were
7 resumed on the record
8 in open court, as
9 follows:)
10
11 BY MR. GREG DAVIS:
12 Q. Is that, in fact, the diagram that she
13 drew for you on June the 10th, 1996?
14 A. Yes, sir.
15 Q. And that is the document that was
16 attached to the affidavit as Exhibit A; is that correct?
17 A. Yes, sir.
18
19 MR. GREG DAVIS: Your Honor, at this
20 time we will offer State's Exhibit D and tender that to
21 Counsel.
22 MR. WAYNE HUFF: Thank you.
23
24
25

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 272

1 CROSS EXAMINATION (Resumed)
2
3 BY MR. WAYNE HUFF:
4 Q. Is this a copy of the diagram that she
5 drew for you?
6 A. Yes, sir.
7 Q. Is it a true and accurate copy of the
8 original?
9 A. Yes, sir.
10
11 MR. WAYNE HUFF: Your Honor, we will
12 offer this for purposes of this hearing.
13 MR. GREG DAVIS: No objection.
14 THE COURT: Received.
15
16
17 (Whereupon, the above
18 mentioned item was
19 received in evidence
20 as State's Exhibit D,
21 for all purposes, after
22 which time, the
23 proceedings were
24 resumed as follows:)
25

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 273

1 BY MR. WAYNE HUFF:
2 Q. Was there a reason that you wanted Mrs.
3 Routier to draw you a diagram, Officer?
4 A. Yes, sir.
5 Q. What was that reason?
6 A. I just wanted her to show us exactly
7 where she was laying on the couch, where the suspect she
8 said was standing, the route that he took to the kitchen
9 or through the kitchen to the utility room.
10 Q. All right. And she did all that for
11 you did she?
12 A. Yes, sir.
13
14 MR. WAYNE HUFF: May I approach the
15 witness, your Honor?
16 THE COURT: Yes, sir.
17
18 BY MR. WAYNE HUFF:
19 Q. I'm showing you State's Exhibit D; is
20 that "X" the location where she said the suspect was?
21 A. Yes, sir.
22 Q. Okay. Which couch did she say that she
23 was on?
24 A. This couch right here.
25 Q. And, where was her head?

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 274

1 A. In this direction here. (Indicating on
2 diagram.)
3 Q. All right. So her head was down near
4 the TV; is that correct?
5 A. Yes, sir.
6 Q. All right. What route did she say the
7 suspect took as he left?
8 A. That he came between the couch and the
9 coffee table this way, and then, this little table top
10 that you call an island, he was on the east side of it,
11 and then went into the utility room.
12 Q. All right. Take this red pen and draw
13 the route that she told you the suspect took, if you
14 would.
15 A. Okay. (Witness complies.)
16 Q. All right. In other words, she said
17 that he went around the couch, around the island, and back
18 out the utility room; is that correct?
19 A. Yes, sir.
20 Q. All right. And past this wine rack
21 here, where the wine glasses were; is that correct?
22 A. Yes, sir.
23 Q. One of the wine glasses you later found
24 was broken; is that right?
25 A. Yes, sir.

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 275

1 Q. All right. Did you ask her any other
2 questions on June 10th, other than to draw a diagram?
3 A. No, sir, not that I can remember.
4 Q. All right. Did you ask her any
5 questions about when she saw the knife?
6 A. Well, I'm sure I did.
7 Q. What did she tell you?
8 A. Well, again she tells me that it was on
9 the floor in the utility room.
10 Q. Okay. Did she tell you when she saw
11 it?
12 A. When she followed the suspect towards
13 the utility room, she saw it on the floor.
14 Q. Okay. Did she tell you when she saw
15 it?
16 A. Well, when she got to the utility room.
17 Q. All right. Well actually, isn't it
18 part of your report that she told you she saw it across
19 the island?
20 A. Yes, sir.
21 Q. In fact, you went out and checked that
22 out; is that correct?
23 A. Yes, sir.
24 Q. And she -- did you ever confront her
25 with the fact that you couldn't see the knife over the

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 276

1 island?
2 A. No, sir, she came back at a later date
3 and said that -- matter of fact, I think she even called
4 in and said something to Sergeant Lamar Evans about that
5 she didn't see the knife over the island, that she had to
6 get to the utility room before she saw the knife.
7 Q. Okay. So, she called back the next day
8 and told you she was mistaken about that; is that correct?
9 A. I'm not sure if it was the next day.
10 Q. All right. Well, let me see if this
11 will refresh your memory.
12
13 (Showing document to
14 witness.)
15
16 A. Okay. Yes, sir, it was the next day.
17 Q. All right. Is there anything about
18 that, that troubled you? Was that one of the things that
19 you called an inconsistency?
20 A. Yes, sir.
21 Q. Why is that?
22 A. Well, when she first told me that she
23 saw the knife from the light switch, I couldn't see the
24 knife from the light switch, then she changed it to where
25 she saw the knife on the floor, from standing about mid

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 277

1 way of that island.
2 Q. All right. Well, in between the time
3 she told you she saw it over the island, and she called
4 Sergeant Evans, she had not been back out to the house,
5 had she?
6 A. No, sir.
7 Q. So she would have had no way of knowing
8 whether that was wrong or not; is that right?
9 A. Well, I'm not sure I understand your
10 question.
11 Q. Well, she called you back the next day,
12 without having gone out to the scene personally, and told
13 you that she had made a mistake; is that right?
14 A. Yes, sir.
15 Q. So she gave you a supplemental report;
16 is that right?
17 A. Yes, sir.
18 Q. Sort of like Officer Waddell gave you a
19 supplemental report; is that right?
20
21 MR. GREG DAVIS: I'm going to object to
22 that, it calls for conclusions on the part of this witness
23 concerning what Officer Waddell did.
24 THE COURT: Sustained.
25

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 278

1 BY MR. WAYNE HUFF:
2 Q. Well, let me just ask you this,
3 Detective Patterson, is it quite often that police
4 officers have to go back and correct mistakes in their
5 reports, and supplement their reports?
6
7 MR. GREG DAVIS: I'm going to object to
8 that, it's not relevant as to what officers do in other
9 cases concerning supplemental reports. Again, trying to
10 compare what this woman did to an officer's report, I
11 think is improper and it's irrelevant here.
12 MR. WAYNE HUFF: Well, your Honor, the
13 police are saying that it's okay for a trained
14 professional to supplement his report, but when a suspect
15 supplements a report, then there is something suspicious
16 about it.
17 MR. GREG DAVIS: Well, this isn't a
18 supplemental report. This is two inconsistent stories
19 given on two days, back to back, and I would hardly call
20 that a supplement to give a contradictory story to a
21 police officer. So, again, I think that the comparison
22 again, and calling this a supplemental report is improper
23 to begin with.
24 THE COURT: Overruled.
25 BY MR. WAYNE HUFF:

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 279

1 Q. But she basically did the same thing
2 Officer Waddell did, didn't she?
3 A. What is that?
4 Q. She changed her mind about what she
5 told you.
6
7 MR. GREG DAVIS: I'm going to object to
8 that. That is an improper characterization of what
9 Officer Waddell did. He didn't change his mind about what
10 he saw, and I'm going to object to that comparison.
11 THE COURT: Try again.
12
13 BY MR. WAYNE HUFF:
14 Q. Well, Officer, let's move on to
15 something else. Suffice it to say, before she called
16 Sergeant Evans back, you didn't confront her and say,
17 "Well, I can't see over that island into the other room."
18 Did you?
19 A. No, sir, I did not.
20 Q. All right. Now, she came in
21 voluntarily on June the 8th; is that right?
22 A. Yes, sir.
23 Q. She and her husband both; is that
24 right?
25 A. Yes, sir.

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 280

1 Q. She came in without legal counsel; is
2 that correct?
3
4 MR. GREG DAVIS: I'm going to object.
5 That has been asked and answered I think two or three
6 times now, as to when she came in on June the 8th, prior
7 to this date, so we're going back over old ground at this
8 point.
9 THE COURT: Sustained.
10
11 BY MR. WAYNE HUFF:
12 Q. Well, did she come in with or without
13 legal counsel?
14
15 MR. GREG DAVIS: I'm going to object
16 again. That has been asked and answered. He said that
17 they came in together by themselves alone.
18
19 BY MR. WAYNE HUFF:
20 Q. All right, let's move on to something
21 else, Officer.
22 Now, at the end of your report you
23 summarized your conclusions, Officer, one of them is:
24 "Darlie mentions she is a light sleeper. This is one
25 reason why she was staying downstairs and not upstairs."

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 281

1
2 MR. GREG DAVIS: I'm going to object to
3 him reading from a document that is not in evidence again.
4 And I'm going to object to offering the document, if he
5 does offer it because again, it's hearsay and it is
6 improper impeachment at this time.
7 THE COURT: Go ahead, sir.
8 MR. WAYNE HUFF: I'll do it this way,
9 Judge.
10
11 BY MR. WAYNE HUFF:
12 Q. Did Darlie tell you she was a light
13 sleeper?
14 A. Yes, sir.
15 Q. Did she tell you that was why she was
16 staying downstairs?
17 A. Yes, sir.
18 Q. And you thought that was strange,
19 because she didn't hear her children being killed; is that
20 correct?
21 A. Yes, sir.
22 Q. Had Mrs. Routier taken any medication
23 that evening before she went to sleep?
24 A. Not that I'm aware of.
25 Q. Did you ask?

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 282

1 A. Not that I recall.
2 Q. You never asked Mrs. Routier if she
3 ever took any medication that night before she went to
4 sleep?
5 A. I don't remember asking her.
6 Q. Was the TV on?
7 A. I was told the TV was on by one of the
8 officers.
9 Q. Okay. Was the sound on?
10 A. The sound was on when I went in there
11 that morning.
12 Q. Loud, soft, medium?
13 A. I don't -- I'm not sure.
14 Q. Did you ask Mrs. Routier if the sound
15 was on that night?
16 A. No, sir.
17 Q. That wasn't important to you?
18 A. No, sir.
19 Q. What other sounds might have been in
20 the room?
21 A. No, sir.
22 Q. You didn't figure that into your
23 equation?
24 A. No, sir.
25 Q. Now, the next one is, you found it

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 283

1 unusual that she said in one story that she was
2 struggling with the suspect on the couch, and then in
3 another story that she was not struggling with the
4 suspect, and saw him at the foot of the couch; is that
5 right?
6 A. Yes, sir.
7 Q. When did she tell you that she was
8 struggling with the suspect?
9 A. The first time I met with her.
10 Q. In the hospital?
11 A. Yes, sir.
12 Q. When she was under -- had just gotten
13 out of surgery; is that right?
14 A. Yes, sir.
15 Q. Is that the only time she told you
16 that?
17 A. I'm not sure.
18 Q. All right. You also found it strange
19 that there was not any evidence of blood on the couch
20 where she says her head was located when her throat was
21 cut?
22 A. Yes, sir.
23 Q. Was there any blood on that couch at
24 all?
25 A. Yes, sir.

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 284

1 Q. Where?
2 A. Towards the -- what I would call the
3 north end of the couch where her feet were.
4 Q. All right. Was her head on a pillow?
5 A. Yes, sir.
6 Q. Did you-all retrieve the pillow?
7 A. Yes, sir.
8 Q. Was there blood on the pillow?
9 A. I honestly can't say right now, I did
10 not look at my notes to see. I don't think that there
11 was, but I'm not sure.
12 Q. There is nothing in this report about a
13 pillow, is there?
14 A. I have not read that report in the
15 last -- well, over a month, I don't remember.
16 Q. Now you can't remember whether you
17 checked the pillow out or not?
18 A. I know that we had taken several
19 pillows, and I'm just not sure on that pillow.
20 Q. Describe the pillow that she had her
21 head on?
22 A. Well, most of the pillows were like
23 sofa pillows where they were just small and square, and
24 this was a bed-sized pillow, and it had a maroon pillow
25 case on it.

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 285

1 Q. Okay. Was that the only bed-sized
2 pillow downstairs?
3 A. Yes, sir.
4 Q. All right. Let's see. At one point
5 you say that she told you she saw the knife when the
6 suspect dropped the knife in the utility room?
7 A. Correct.
8 Q. When did she tell you that?
9 A. I'm not sure which conversation it was
10 when she told me that.
11 Q. Well, was it in a written statement?
12 A. In her written statement?
13 Q. Yes, sir.
14 A. I have not reviewed her written
15 statement, so I don't remember.
16 Q. She has consistently told you she found
17 the knife in the utility room; is that correct?
18 A. Yes, sir.
19 Q. So you know that she went into the
20 utility room; is that correct?
21 A. Well, I know she told me that.
22 Q. Well, there was blood in there too,
23 wasn't there?
24 A. Yes, sir.
25 Q. You say it is inconsistent with the

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 286

1 physical evidence when Darlie says the knife was on the
2 utility room floor; is that right?
3 A. Could you repeat that?
4 Q. You indicate that it is inconsistent,
5 and one of the things you took into account, it is
6 inconsistent that the knife was on the floor in the
7 utility room; is that correct?
8 A. Well, that it's inconsistent that the
9 knife was found on the utility floor?
10 Q. You said there was no evidence that it
11 was ever on the floor?
12 A. Right. Yes, sir, that is correct.
13 Q. Was there blood on the utility floor?
14 A. It looks like drops of blood.
15 Q. Who told you that it looked like drops
16 of blood?
17 A. Well, I saw, personally I saw drops of
18 blood, and Sergeant Nabors, and James Cron.
19 Q. All right. Did they say the knife was
20 never on the utility room floor?
21 A. Yes, sir.
22 Q. All right. How much blood did the
23 knife have on it, at the time that it was laid on the
24 utility floor?
25 A. Well, I don't believe that it was ever

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 287

1 laid on the utility floor.
2 Q. How much blood was on the knife when
3 you saw it on the counter?
4 A. It looked like quite a bit of blood.
5 Q. Well, how much had dripped on to the
6 counter?
7 A. Well, I can't tell you in measurements.
8 I mean, you can tell that that knife was laying on that
9 table top.
10 Q. Okay. You mean on the counter?
11 A. On the counter top, yes, sir.
12 Q. And it laid there for quite a while,
13 didn't it?
14 A. Yes, sir.
15 Q. All right. The evidence would seem to
16 suggest that it only laid on the utility room floor for
17 just minutes, if it was there at all; is that right?
18 A. Well, I don't believe it was ever
19 there.
20 Q. Okay. Well, if it was there, according
21 to her statement, it was there for a very brief period of
22 time; would that be correct?
23 A. Yes, sir.
24 Q. You indicated one of the things that
25 you took into consideration is that Mrs. Routier never

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 288

1 mentioned being on the west side of the island, between
2 the island and the sink; is that something you took into
3 account?
4 A. Yes, sir.
5 Q. Did you ever ask her if she was in that
6 location?
7 A. Well, I didn't ask her in a way that,
8 "Were you on that side?" But I did ask her -- can I look
9 at that?
10 Q. Sure.
11 A. Because when she got through drawing
12 this out, I asked her several times, "Did anyone ever go
13 on the west side, between the island and the sink? Did
14 anyone ever go that side, towards the utility room? Did
15 anyone ever come back this way, between the island and the
16 sink to get back into this room?" And she told me no.
17 Q. When did you ask her that?
18 A. When she got through doing this
19 drawing.
20 Q. All right. Did you ever ask her, "Did
21 you go near the sink?"
22 A. I didn't ask her if she went near the
23 sink, I asked her if she or anyone had ever -- either went
24 this way, or went -- or came back this way.
25 Q. Well, anyone, did you ask her if she

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 289

1 did?
2 A. Yes, I said, "Did you or anyone."
3 Q. All right. So you are saying now, that
4 you specifically asked her if she ever went over where the
5 sink was?
6 A. I didn't mention the sink.
7 Q. All right. You asked her if she ever
8 went into the utility room from that direction?
9 A. Yes, sir.
10 Q. And you say that she told you no?
11 A. Right.
12 Q. Did you ever ask her if she was
13 standing at the sink?
14 A. No, sir.
15 Q. You knew there was blood at the sink?
16 A. Yes, sir.
17 Q. But you never inquired of that?
18 A. No, sir.
19 Q. Were there some bloody towels seized?
20 A. Yes, sir.
21 Q. Did you ask her where those came from?
22 A. No, sir.
23 Q. Is there a drawer in the kitchen where
24 towels are kept?
25 A. Yes, sir.

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 290

1 Q. Where is it located?
2 A. This part right here, yes, this part
3 right here. I mean, it's kind of a lower part, and then
4 there is a higher part right there, and then there's some
5 drawers right in here. (Witness indicating on diagram.)
6 Q. Which drawer has the towels?
7 A. I believe there was a set of 3 drawers
8 there, and it was the middle one.
9 Q. Did that drawer have blood on it?
10 A. I'm not sure without looking at the
11 pictures.
12 Q. Where are the footprints that you
13 talked about leading from the kitchen to the den?
14 A. Right in here. (Witness indicating on
15 diagram.)
16 Q. All right.
17 A. This island was actually a little more
18 over here, but it is right in here.
19 Q. All right. So the footprints are in
20 front of that drawer?
21 A. Yes, sir.
22 Q. And you say there are no footprints
23 going back into the utility room?
24 A. No, sir.
25 Q. But there was blood back there, isn't

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 291

1 there?
2 A. There are drops of blood, yes, sir.
3 Q. So someone who was bleeding was back
4 there, right?
5 A. Yes, sir.
6 Q. You indicate in here that a security
7 light is activated when someone is in the back yard?
8 A. Yes, sir.
9 Q. Did y'all check that out?
10 A. Sergeant Nabors and -- yes, sir,
11 Sergeant Nabors did.
12 Q. And you say that security light turns
13 on for how long?
14 A. I don't remember.
15 Q. Why don't you take a look at your
16 report?
17 A. It indicates 18 minutes.
18 Q. All right. How was that security light
19 triggered? Is it a motion detector?
20 A. Yes, sir.
21 Q. Who first told you that the security
22 light was not on when the police officers arrived?
23 A. Sergeant Matt Walling.
24 Q. Okay. When did he arrive at the scene?
25 A. Four or five minutes after the call was

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 292

1 made.
2 Q. All right. Do you know the method they
3 used to test how the security light comes on?
4 A. No, sir.
5 Q. You indicate that the injuries to Mrs.
6 Routier are not consistent with the children's injuries;
7 is that correct?
8 A. Yes, sir.
9 Q. She was stabbed, wasn't she?
10 A. Yes, sir.
11 Q. She was cut, wasn't she?
12 A. Yes, sir.
13 Q. Do you believe that a person struggling
14 with an assailant might receive different injuries than
15 someone who is not?
16 A. I honestly can't say.
17 Q. Darlie's injuries were not life
18 threatening. They were not life threatening at all?
19 A. I don't believe so, no, sir.
20 Q. You mean if they were left untreated,
21 she would not have bled to death?
22 A. I'm not sure.
23 Q. There was blood found underneath the
24 broken glass in the kitchen where Darlie says the suspect
25 ran or walked through. There were not any cuts on the

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 293

1 bottom of her feet; is that what you are saying?
2 A. Yes, sir.
3 Q. Where were -- I want you to put little
4 "X's" in there where all the glass fragments were.
5 A. Well, I wouldn't be able to show where
6 all the glass fragments were.
7 Q. There were hundreds of them, weren't
8 there?
9 A. There was a bunch, yes, sir.
10 Q. Well, can you show us where the largest
11 glass fragments were?
12 A. Well, you know, if I was looking at a
13 picture, I could show you where there was a bigger piece.
14 Q. Okay. Let me show you what's been
15 marked as State's Exhibit No. 13, and I'll ask if you can
16 identify that?
17 A. Yes, sir.
18 Q. Is that part of the kitchen floor, next
19 to the wine rack?
20 A. Yes, sir.
21 Q. Does the largest part of the glass
22 fragments appear there?
23 A. Yes, sir.
24 Q. And would that be here?
25 A. Yes, sir.

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 294

1 Q. Are there any other glass fragments
2 there?
3 A. Yes, sir.
4 Q. Where?
5 A. All over the floor, all in this area.
6 Q. All in that particular area?
7 A. Yes, sir.
8 Q. Are there any of the glass fragments in
9 State's Exhibit 14?
10 A. I know that they are in this area right
11 in here, and I'm not sure how far it goes back here,
12 because this picture right here, is showing more where
13 this vacuum cleaner was.
14 Q. Okay. You can't see any there; is that
15 correct?
16 A. Well, no. No, sir, I can't.
17 Q. All right. Now, you know that at least
18 two police officers walked over this kitchen floor to go
19 back and check out the garage, don't you?
20 A. Yes, sir.
21 Q. You know the paramedics were in the
22 house; is that correct?
23 A. Yes, sir.
24 Q. Do you know if they were in the kitchen
25 or not?

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 295

1 A. No, sir.
2 Q. You didn't ask them?
3 A. I don't recall anyone -- any of the
4 paramedics going into the kitchen.
5 Q. Well, you weren't there, were you?
6 A. No, sir.
7 Q. And you didn't ask them, did you?
8 A. No, sir.
9 Q. And it wasn't in the report, was it?
10 A. No, sir.
11 Q. So you really don't know whether the
12 position of the glass changed from the time it was broken,
13 until the time the physical evidence people arrived, do
14 you?
15 A. No, sir.
16 Q. You are not saying that every time you
17 step on a piece of glass with bare feet you are going to
18 cut your foot, are you?
19 A. No, sir.
20 Q. Let's see. On June the 18th, when did
21 you decide to get an arrest warrant for Mrs. Routier?
22 A. I believe we got the arrest warrant on
23 June the 18th.
24 Q. When was the decision made to get the
25 arrest warrant?

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 296

1 A. June the 18th.
2 Q. All right. In the morning?
3 A. Yes, sir.
4 Q. All right. Was this as a result of a
5 meeting or a conference with you and other detectives?
6 A. Yes, sir.
7 Q. Who was involved in that conference?
8 A. Sergeant Evans and Detective Frosch.
9 Q. So y'all went down and got an arrest
10 warrant from Judge Warder; is that correct?
11 A. Yes, sir.
12 Q. And you called up Mrs. Routier and her
13 husband, and asked them to come in and be interviewed yet
14 again; is that correct?
15 A. Yes, sir.
16 Q. And they came in once again; is that
17 correct?
18 A. Yes, sir.
19 Q. When was Mrs. Routier advised that she
20 was -- that you had a warrant for her arrest?
21 A. Approximately 9:00 o'clock that June
22 18th.
23 Q. What time did she come in?
24 A. I don't remember the time, I want to
25 say it was around 7:00 o'clock.

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 297

1 Q. Let me ask you if that refreshes your
2 memory? (Showing witness document.)
3 A. Yes, sir.
4 Q. Okay. What time was it?
5 A. 6:50 P.M.
6 Q. All right. Who read her her rights?
7 A. I did.
8 Q. Who interviewed her?
9 A. Bill Parker.
10 Q. Is he a Rowlett police officer?
11 A. No, sir.
12 Q. Why was he called in to interview her?
13 A. He is a retired Dallas police officer.
14 Q. Why specifically was he called in to
15 interview her?
16 A. He had worked homicide cases for about
17 11 years.
18 Q. All right. Did you feel like you
19 needed someone else at this point to interview Mrs.
20 Routier?
21 A. Yes, sir.
22 Q. So she allowed herself to be
23 interviewed by yet another person, until she was advised
24 that she was under arrest? Is that correct?
25 A. Yes, sir, that's correct.

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 298

1 Q. And then, and only then, did she ask
2 for a lawyer; is that correct?
3 A. Yes, sir.
4 Q. Officer, are you sure that it's Mr.
5 Parker that interviewed her and not you?
6 A. No, Mr. Parker interviewed her.
7 Q. Were you there?
8 A. During his interview?
9 Q. Yes, sir.
10 A. No, sir. Well, I was there, but I
11 mean, I was not in the interview room.
12 Q. Where were you?
13 A. Outside the interview room.
14 Q. Were you listening?
15 A. No, sir.
16 Q. Well, why did you put in your report
17 that: "I read Darlie her Miranda rights before conducting
18 an interview with her"?
19 A. Well, it says that I read Darlie her
20 Miranda rights before conducting an interview with her,
21 yes, sir.
22 Q. What part of that report says that Mr.
23 Parker conducted an interview with her?
24 A. It doesn't.
25 Q. But that is what happened, isn't it?

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 299

1 A. Yes, sir.
2 Q. You indicate, Officer, that you all had
3 a Garland K-9 come out there to smell around outside of
4 the house; is that right?
5 A. Yes, sir.
6 Q. You indicate -- was there something
7 unusual about what that resulted in?
8 A. Yes, sir.
9 Q. What was that?
10 A. According to the officer that handles
11 the K-9, there wasn't any disturbance around that area of
12 the window.
13 Q. Well, what do you mean there was no
14 disturbance?
15 A. Well, that it didn't appear that
16 anybody had been out there. That there had been anybody
17 moving around in the grass.
18 Q. Was that the dog's opinion or the
19 officer's opinion?
20 A. The officer's.
21 Q. Was that based on the dog not picking
22 up a scent?
23 A. Yes, sir.
24 Q. All right. Well, does that mean that
25 there was no one out in that back yard in the last 24

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 300

1 hours, or 6 hours, or --
2 A. No, sir, because there was two officers
3 that had searched back there.
4 Q. All right. I guess the dog didn't pick
5 up their scent either; is that what you are saying?
6 A. Well, the dog didn't pick up on any
7 disturbance where it led from that back yard.
8 Q. All right. Well, the dogs pick up on
9 smell, not disturbances, don't they?
10 A. Well, I'm not sure how that K-9 works.
11 Q. Okay. Well, there was a sign of a
12 small disturbance, I mean, the screen was cut, wasn't it,
13 by someone?
14 A. Yes, sir.
15 Q. So we know someone was out there; is
16 that right?
17 A. Yes, sir.
18 Q. What kind of sign of a disturbance were
19 you looking for out there?
20 A. Footprints.
21 Q. And you didn't find any of those?
22 A. No, sir.
23 Q. Was the ground wet? Was it muddy?
24 A. No, sir.
25 Q. Is it possible to get to that window

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 301

1 where the screen was cut without stepping on grass or bare
2 ground?
3 A. Yes, sir.
4 Q. How would you do that?
5 A. Well, you can stay on the concrete.
6 Q. Well, in fact, the concrete extends
7 right up to that window, doesn't it?
8 A. Yes, sir.
9 Q. All right. Now, as a result of all
10 this, you went down and got an arrest warrant for Mrs.
11 Routier and that was executed that same night; is that
12 correct?
13 A. Yes, sir.
14 Q. Okay. You saw the window with the cut
15 screen before it was removed?
16 A. Yes, sir.
17 Q. In your opinion, could someone have
18 gone in and out of that window, was it possible for a
19 human being to get in through that window through the
20 screen?
21 A. Yes, sir.
22 Q. Was it possible for them to do that
23 without disturbing the windowsill, or any of the dust, or
24 anything that was on it?
25 A. Well, anything is possible, but I don't

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 302

1 think they could have.
2 Q. Well, was there mulch under the window
3 bed, or under the windowsill?
4 A. I would have to look at the picture.
5 Q. Okay.
6
7 (Attorney showing.
8 picture to the witness.)
9
10 A. No, sir.
11 Q. Mulch on the flowerbeds? Was there
12 mulch on the flowerbeds?
13 A. Yes, sir.
14 Q. Was it necessary to go over that mulch
15 to get to that window?
16 A. No, sir.
17 Q. So the fact that the mulch wasn't
18 disturbed would be really of no significance at all, would
19 it?
20 A. No, sir.
21 Q. Well, if that is true, why did you talk
22 about it in your affidavit for arrest warrant, Officer?
23 A. Well, we indicated that it didn't look
24 like anybody had walked through it.
25 Q. Is it true, Officer, that there was

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 303

1 blood extending all the way from in the kitchen to back
2 where the utility room was?
3 A. Yes, sir.
4 Q. There was blood in front of the wine
5 rack; is that right?
6 A. Yes, sir.
7 Q. There was blood all along here; is that
8 correct?
9 A. Yes, sir.
10 Q. Was there blood on the other side of
11 the island?
12 A. Yes, sir.
13 Q. So it's your conclusion that anyone
14 walking through that area would have left a footprint?
15 A. Well, no more blood than what was on
16 that side of the island, on the west side of the island,
17 there might not have been any footprints, no.
18 Q. What are you referring to as the west
19 side of the island?
20 A. Well, this is the west side of the
21 island here. (Indicating on diagram.) And there is just
22 some drops of blood going this way.
23 Q. Well, were those blood drops disturbed
24 in any way?
25 A. No, sir.

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 304

1 Q. Would it be your opinion that someone
2 that would walk back there, would disturb the blood?
3 A. Yes, sir.
4 Q. You were aware --
5 A. Well, I mean, they wouldn't have --
6 well, no, sir.
7 Q. You are aware that two police officers
8 walked back there?
9 A. Yes, sir.
10 Q. Did they appear to have disturbed the
11 blood?
12 A. No, sir.
13 Q. Did they leave any footprints?
14 A. No, sir.
15 Q. You know that both of them were in the
16 living room where there was copious blood on the carpet.
17 A. Yes, sir.
18 Q. Did they leave any footprints anywhere
19 in the house?
20 A. Well, you could see some footprint
21 markings in the carpet.
22 Q. They didn't leave any in the kitchen,
23 did they?
24 A. No, sir.
25 Q. All right.

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 305

1
2 MR. WAYNE HUFF: Your Honor could we
3 approach the bench for a moment?
4 THE COURT: Sure.
5
6 (Whereupon, a short
7 Discussion was held
8 Off the record, after
9 Which time the
10 Proceedings were resumed
11 As follows:)
12
13 THE COURT: All right. We're going to
14 recess. We will start back at 10:30, probably about 10:32
15 or 10:33 when we will actually get started.
16 You may step down.
17
18 (Whereupon, a short
19 Recess was taken,
20 After which time,
21 The proceedings were
22 Resumed on the record,
23 In the presence and
24 Hearing of the defendant
25 as follows:)

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 306

1
2 THE COURT: All right, Mr. Huff, have
3 you had enough time to look at those documents?
4 MR. WAYNE HUFF: I think so, your
5 Honor.
6 THE COURT: All right. Let's resume.
7 MR. WAYNE HUFF: Would you mark these
8 please.
9
10 (Whereupon, the above
11 mentioned item was
12 marked for
13 identification only as
14 Defendant's Exhibits 4
15 through 8, after which
16 time the proceedings were
17 resumed on the record
18 in open court, as
19 follows:)
20
21 THE COURT: All right. You can go
22 ahead, Mr. Huff.
23
24 BY MR. WAYNE HUFF:
25 Q. Officer, we have been referring to the

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 307

1 east side of the island and the west side of the island.
2 Would you just put an "E" and a "W," just so we will know
3 what we're talking about here.
4 A. Okay. (Witness complies.)
5 Q. So, the west side is at the top and the
6 east side is at the bottom of this sheet of paper; is that
7 correct?
8 A. Yes, sir.
9 Q. Officer, I asked to you bring some
10 handwritten notes down to court today. Let me show you
11 Defendant's Exhibit No. 6 and ask if you can identify
12 that?
13 A. Yes, sir.
14 Q. All right. Are those the handwritten
15 notes that you brought?
16 A. Yes, sir.
17 Q. Are those the only handwritten notes
18 that you have in this case?
19 A. Well --
20 Q. Or that you wrote in this case?
21 A. Yes, sir.
22 Q. Okay.
23 A. And then those two.
24 Q. And the telephone memorandum, I have
25 marked as separate exhibits, Defendant's Exhibits 7 and 8.

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 308

1 Are these the only telephone memorandum you made as a
2 result of this case?
3 A. Yes, sir.
4 Q. Defendant's Exhibit No. 5, what is
5 Defendant's Exhibit No. 5?
6 A. It's a supplement that I started.
7 Q. Okay. That you didn't complete?
8 A. Right.
9 Q. Okay. It's page -- it's marked page 1
10 of -- and then that's blank, and then page 2 of blank, and
11 then the third page doesn't appear to be marked?
12 A. Right.
13 Q. There are no other pages to this
14 document?
15 A. No, sir.
16 Q. It's just that you didn't finish it?
17 A. Right.
18 Q. And Defendant's Exhibit 4 is your
19 prosecution report; is that correct?
20 A. Yes, sir.
21 Q. Okay. And it's 5 pages long; is that
22 right?
23 A. Yes, sir.
24 Q. All right.
25

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 309

1 MR. WAYNE HUFF: Your Honor, for record
2 purpose only, we are going to offer Defendant's Exhibits
3 6, 7, 8, 5 and 4.
4 MR. GREG DAVIS: No objection.
5 THE COURT: Received.
6
7 (Whereupon, the items
8 Heretofore mentioned
9 Were received in evidence as
10 Defendant's Exhibits No. 4 through 8
11 For record purposes only,
12 After which time, the
13 Proceedings were resumed
14 As follows:
15
16
17 BY MR. WAYNE HUFF:
18 Q. Did you have occasion -- and I need to
19 take you back now, Officer, to the hospital -- did you
20 have an occasion to talk to a nurse there by the name of
21 Theresa Marie Powers?
22 A. Yes, sir.
23 Q. Did you personally interview her?
24 A. No, sir, not at that time.
25 Q. Did you interview her later?

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 310

1 A. Yes, sir.
2 Q. Did she give you an affidavit?
3 A. Yes, sir.
4 Q. What did she tell you?
5
6 MR. GREG DAVIS: I'm going to object to
7 that as being hearsay.
8 MR. WAYNE HUFF: Well, your Honor, this
9 is the investigating officer. Hearsay is admissible at
10 this hearing.
11 MR. GREG DAVIS: No, it's not. What
12 rule says that hearsay is admissible in this hearing?
13 THE COURT: Will you --
14 MR. GREG DAVIS: I don't know of any
15 rule that says --
16 THE COURT: Excuse me, quiet please.
17 I'm sorry. Go ahead.
18 MR. GREG DAVIS: I'm sorry. I'm
19 unaware of any rule of evidence that says that this
20 hearing allows hearsay. Unless Counsel can cite that rule
21 for me, I don't know of it.
22 MR. WAYNE HUFF: Well, your Honor, the
23 Courts -- case law specifically says that the Court is
24 entitled to rely upon, for its ruling, not only evidence
25 that comes in, that might come in at trial, even evidence

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 311

1 that may not be admissible at trial. And this particular
2 Officer I would remind the Court, is an investigating
3 officer, and I believe that I am entitled to cross examine
4 him about his opinions.
5 MR. GREG DAVIS: Well, if there is case
6 law to that effect, and I have not seen that case law, but
7 it would sound to me as though it's within the sound
8 discretion of this Court as to whether we're going to
9 venture off into tangents of hearsay, which will take us
10 well into tomorrow, or whether we're going to confine this
11 to the established rules of evidence here.
12 MR. WAYNE HUFF: Well, Judge, if she
13 didn't have anything important to say, he can just tell us
14 that, and we will move on.
15 MR. GREG DAVIS: Well, no, we couldn't
16 do that, because we know what is going to happen here with
17 this line of questioning, history has told us that won't
18 happen.
19 THE COURT: Well, if you have the
20 authority I will be glad to look at it, otherwise, I'm
21 going to --
22 MR. WAYNE HUFF: Oh, I'll just move on,
23 your Honor.
24 THE COURT: Thank you.
25

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 312

1 BY MR. WAYNE HUFF:
2 Q. You did take an affidavit from her
3 later; is that right?
4 A. Yes, sir.
5 Q. Okay. At the hospital that night, did
6 you question someone about some insurance policies?
7 A. No, not that I remember at the
8 hospital.
9 Q. Okay. When is the first time you
10 questioned someone about that?
11 A. That is going to be sometime after we
12 found the insurance policies at the house.
13 Q. Where did you find those, please?
14 A. In the living area.
15 Q. Where in the living area?
16 A. Next to the couch that Darlie Routier
17 was laying on.
18 Q. All right. Which couch was that?
19 A. It was right here, there was a stack of
20 papers, insurance policies.
21 Q. Were there any other papers there other
22 than the insurance policies?
23 A. Yes, sir.
24 Q. What?
25 A. Some cat records, social security

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 313

1 records, birth certificates, marriage license.
2 Q. A lot of personal papers just scattered
3 out there?
4 A. Yes, sir.
5 Q. Okay. Now, did you find any insurance
6 policies on either of the two children?
7 A. I'm not sure -- no, I don't remember
8 finding any policies, no.
9 Q. Well, let me just make it clear what
10 I'm talking about. You had indicated, at some point, that
11 on Darin there was seven hundred thousand dollars in life
12 insurance policies?
13 A. Yes, sir.
14 Q. What was the source of that
15 information?
16 A. Darlie told me about the insurance on
17 him.
18 Q. When did she tell you that?
19 A. During one of the interviews.
20 Q. Okay. Did it turn out that there was
21 that much insurance on him?
22 A. No, but we found some policies, but I'm
23 not sure of the amount.
24 Q. Okay. How about policies on Mrs.
25 Routier? Were there any insurance policies on her?

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 314

1 A. Yes, sir.
2 Q. Okay. Did you personally review them?
3 A. No, sir.
4 Q. How much were they for?
5 A. I believe she told me -- I believe she
6 told me she had -- there was two different insurance
7 policies on Darin and two different policies on Darlie,
8 and the children had two different policies each, except
9 for Drake, he didn't have any.
10 Q. How much insurance was on the children?
11 A. Five thousand dollars each.
12 Q. Okay. And on Darlie, you still don't
13 know for sure?
14 A. Well, I want to say there was one like
15 for a hundred and fifty thousand dollars, and one for a
16 hundred thousand.
17 Q. Okay. I'm going to turn -- direct your
18 attention to page 3 of Defendant's Exhibit 6. What date
19 do you recall making those entries in your personal notes?
20 A. I didn't put a date on this sheet.
21 Q. Can you tell from the context of it,
22 when they were probably made, or not?
23 A. Well, sometime during one of the
24 interviews.
25 Q. All right. But you cannot tell which

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 315

1 interview?
2 A. I'm not sure, without going back and
3 looking it over real good.
4 Q. Okay. The first two pages appear to be
5 made on June the 6th; is that right?
6 A. Yes, sir.
7 Q. Okay. And then the next page is not
8 dated?
9 A. No, sir.
10 Q. So you don't know when that was made?
11 A. Not without going back and reviewing
12 it.
13 Q. Okay. Page 4 is not dated, page 5 is
14 not dated, page 6 is not dated, page 7 is not dated, page
15 8 is not dated, page 9 is not dated, page 10 is not dated,
16 page 11 is not dated, and page 12 is not dated?
17 A. Page 11 is.
18 Q. Oh, it was dated. I missed that. All
19 right. What date was that?
20 A. June 6th.
21 Q. All right. Now, are these pages in the
22 order that you made them?
23 A. No, sir.
24 Q. Okay. The list of people that you have
25 on the last page of this exhibit, when was that list

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 316

1 compiled?
2 A. I don't have the date. I don't
3 remember.
4 Q. All right. The numbers out beside each
5 one, what do those refer to?
6 A. Well, these are prescription bottles,
7 and I just took all the doctors' names and the dates off
8 of the prescription bottles.
9 Q. Okay. Did you ever interview any of
10 those doctors?
11 A. No, sir.
12 Q. Okay. You indicated to the Court
13 yesterday, that you, I believe found Mrs. Routier's
14 demeanor at the hospital unusual in hindsight, what about
15 Mr. Routier's demeanor?
16 A. Well, the first time I met him was at
17 the hospital, in this room, and at first I didn't think
18 that his demeanor was appropriate.
19 Q. Okay. Why?
20 A. Well, because of the way he was acting.
21 The first thing he asked, or said to me, when I first
22 walked in that room, was he talked about his wife's
23 breasts, and the size of them.
24 Q. All right. Okay. Did he say anything
25 else you thought was inappropriate?

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 317

1 A. Well, there were several times that --
2 he had been in that room for a long time and never one
3 time asked about the children.
4 Q. Okay.
5 A. And, there was times that he cried, and
6 there was times that he laughed.
7 Q. Okay. And you thought that was unusual
8 at the time?
9 A. Yes, sir.
10 Q. Well, is it fair to say then -- I mean,
11 later you determined that he was not involved; is that
12 correct?
13 A. That's correct.
14 Q. So, it would be fair to say that the
15 fact that someone acts a little differently than you
16 expect, doesn't mean they are guilty of anything, wouldn't
17 it?
18 A. No, sir.
19 Q. It wouldn't be correct?
20 A. Well, do what now?
21 Q. Well, the fact that someone acts
22 inappropriately, in your opinion, after the death of their
23 children, doesn't mean that they caused their death, does
24 it?
25 A. I'm not sure of the question you are

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 318

1 asking.
2 Q. Well, you indicated, did you not, that
3 Mr. Routier was acting as if nothing serious had happened
4 to his family; is that right?
5 A. Yes, sir.
6 Q. Okay. But you later determined that he
7 did not commit this offense, didn't you?
8 A. That's correct.
9 Q. So the fact that he was acting as if
10 nothing serious had happened to his family, doesn't make
11 him guilty, does it?
12 A. No, sir.
13 Q. All right. Officer, would you
14 recognize the 911 tape if you heard it?
15 A. Yes, sir.
16 Q. Now, specifically, I'm talking about
17 the 911 tape, that was made the night, or the early
18 morning hours of June 6th.
19 A. Yes, sir.
20 Q. You have listened to that tape?
21 A. Yes, sir.
22 Q. How was that tape compiled? Explain
23 the process to us, please?
24 A. Well, it's on a reel to reel tape, and
25 every 24 hours it's taken off, I believe it's at 12

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 319

1 midnight, but it's taken off, and a new one is put on, and
2 then it's placed in a container that is placed wherever
3 they put them.
4 Q. Did you make a copy of the 911 tape?
5 A. Yes, sir.
6 Q. Okay. Did you listen to the original
7 of the 911 tape as you were making a copy?
8 A. Yes, sir.
9 Q. Okay. So you could recognize if what I
10 am about to play is -- if it fairly and accurately depicts
11 the original; is that correct?
12 A. Yes, sir.
13 Q. Okay. I want you to listen closely,
14 because I'm going to ask you some questions afterward.
15
16 MR. WAYNE HUFF: Mark this for me,
17 please.
18
19 (Whereupon, the above
20 mentioned item was
21 marked for
22 identification only as
23 Defendant's Exhibit No. 9,
24 after which time the
25 proceedings were

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 320

1 resumed on the record
2 in open court, as
3 follows:)
4
5 MR. WAYNE HUFF: Let the record reflect
6 that I'm playing a tape, your Honor, for the purpose of
7 identification at this time.
8 THE COURT: Okay.
9
10
11 (Whereupon, the 911
12 tape was played in
13 open court, and the
14 following is a
15 transcript of the
16 tape, as best as
17 could be heard,
18 but is not a
19 verbatim transcript.
20 of the same.)
21
22 "911. What is your Emergency?"
23 (Inaudible.)
24 "Ma'am?"
25 "He just stabbed me and my children."

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 321

1 "What?"
2 "He just stabbed me and my children."
3 "Who did?"
4 "A man."
5 "Hang on, hang on."
6 "Please come. My baby's are dying, Oh
7 God, my babies are dying."
8 "This is 911 medical emergency, there
9 is a stabbing at 5801 Eagle Drive, Block 231, Eagle
10 Drive."
11 (Inaudible.)
12 "Ma'am, I need you to calm down and
13 talk to me."
14 (Inaudible.)
15 "Okay. 5801 Eagle?"
16 "Yes."
17 "Ma'am, ma'am. Listen. Listen to me.
18 I need you to listen to me."
19 "Oh, my God."
20 "Did you pick the radio up?"
21 "Yes."
22 "Oh, my God."
23 "Ma'am, I need you to talk to me."
24 "Oh, my God. Oh, my God."
25 (Inaudible.)

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 322

1 "Ma'am, I can't understand you. You
2 are going to have to slow down and calm down and talk to
3 me."
4 (Inaudible.)
5 "What is going on."
6 "My babies were sleeping downstairs and
7 they are dead. Oh, my God. Hold on, baby, hold on. Oh,
8 my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God."
9 (Inaudible.)
10 "Ma'am, is there anybody in the house
11 besides you and your children?"
12 "My husband, he was just came
13 downstairs. The baby is crying, they are dying, Oh, my
14 God, Oh, my God."
15 "Ma'am, listen to me, calm down, calm
16 down."
17 "5801 Eagle Drive."
18 "When are they going to be here?"
19 "Ma'am, they are on the way."
20 "Ma'am, how old are your boys?"
21 "What?"
22 "How old are your boys?"
23 "Oh, my God. Oh, my God."
24 "Is your name Darlie?"
25 "Yes."

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 323

1 "And your husband's name Darin?"
2 "Yes."
3 "Ma'am, you don't know who did this?"
4 (Inaudible.)
5 "They left a knife out there."
6 (Inaudible.)
7 "Ma'am, don't touch anything."
8 "I already picked it up."
9 "Ma'am, are you still out on Eagle?"
10 "Um-hum. I live on Eagle. Oh, my God.
11 Oh, my God, oh, my God, how could they do this?"
12 "Listen, ma'am, you need to let the
13 officers in the front door. Okay? Ma'am, you need to let
14 the police officers in the front door."
15 (Inaudible.)
16 "Okay, it's all right. It's okay."
17 (Inaudible.)
18 "Somebody just walked in here and did
19 it, Darin. Oh, my God. Oh, my God."
20 "Ma'am, is the police officer there?"
21 "Yes, he's here."
22 "Okay. Go talk to him. Okay? Go talk
23 to him. Okay?"
24 (End of tape.)
25

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 324

1 BY MR. WAYNE HUFF:
2 Q. Officer, let me -- you have just heard
3 State's (sic) Exhibit No. 9 the first portion of the 911
4 call played. Does that fairly and accurately depict the
5 911 call, the original?
6 A. Yes, sir.
7
8 MR. WAYNE HUFF: Your Honor, we will
9 offer Defendant's Exhibit No. 9, and ask that we be
10 allowed to substitute a copy.
11 MR. GREG DAVIS: No objection.
12 THE COURT: Received.
13
14 BY MR. WAYNE HUFF:
15 Q. Officer, did you ever listen to the 911
16 tape to determine if you could hear any glass breaking on
17 it?
18 A. I listened to that tape several times,
19 yes, sir.
20 Q. Did you ever here any glass breaking on
21 the tape?
22 A. Not that I remember.
23 Q. You just listened to it then, did you
24 hear it then?
25 A. No, sir.

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 325

1 Q. Okay. Just one other thing, Officer.
2 Did y'all take the glass -- all of the glass into custody
3 or into evidence?
4 A. We did take some, yes, sir.
5 Q. But not all?
6 A. No, sir.
7 Q. How long did y'all have the house to
8 work with?
9 A. About 11 days.
10 Q. And, you took a lot of things out of
11 the house, didn't you?
12 A. Yes, sir.
13 Q. Papers, notebooks, personal effects,
14 all sorts of things, didn't you?
15 A. Yes, sir.
16 Q. In fact, one thing you didn't take out
17 of house was the major piece of that broken glass; is that
18 correct?
19 A. (No response.)
20 Q. You didn't take into evidence the stem
21 piece of the glass that was broken, did you?
22 A. I would have to look at the evidence
23 tags.
24 Q. All right. Well, Mrs. Routier told you
25 that she thought that the person was wearing a black

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 326

1 baseball cap; is that right?
2 A. Yes, sir.
3 Q. Does that appear to be a black baseball
4 cap in the laundry room?
5 A. Yes, sir.
6 Q. After being in the house for 11 days,
7 you didn't take that into evidence either did you?
8 A. No, sir.
9 Q. In fact, the DA's office had to run an
10 evidentiary search warrant to go back and get that glass;
11 is that right?
12 A. To get the cap.
13 Q. To get the cap, I'm sorry.
14 A. Yes, sir.
15 Q. Were you present when that evidentiary
16 search warrant was executed?
17 A. Yes, sir.
18 Q. Was any other evidence gathered, other
19 than the baseball cap at that time?
20 A. No, sir.
21 Q. No further blood samples were taken?
22 A. No, sir.
23 Q. How long did you spend in the house?
24 A. Just a few minutes. All we did is, we
25 waited on a crime scene officer to arrive so we could

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 327

1 photograph the cap.
2 Q. All right.
3
4 MR. WAYNE HUFF: Pass the witness.
5
6
7 REDIRECT EXAMINATION
8
9 BY MR. GREG DAVIS:
10 Q. Detective Patterson -- may I approach,
11 your Honor?
12 THE COURT: Sure.
13
14 BY MR. GREG DAVIS:
15 Q. Detective Patterson, let me show you
16 State's Exhibit No. 18, do you recognize this as a
17 photograph that was taken of Darlie Routier at Baylor
18 Hospital on June 6th of 1996?
19 A. Yes, sir.
20 Q. And it shows some three cuts to three
21 of her fingers?
22 A. Yes, sir.
23 Q. Did you see those cuts when you went to
24 see her at Baylor Hospital?
25 A. Yes, sir.

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 328

1 Q. All right.
2
3 MR. GREG DAVIS: I'll offer State's
4 Exhibit No. 18.
5 MR. WAYNE HUFF: No objection.
6 THE COURT: Received.
7
8 (Whereupon, the items
9 Heretofore mentioned
10 Were received in evidence
11 As State's Exhibit No. 18,
12 For all purposes,
13 After which time, the
14 Proceedings were resumed
15 As follows:
16
17
18 BY MR. GREG DAVIS:
19 Q. Detective, if we can look at State's
20 Exhibit No. 15, you see a part of the counter top over
21 here, which would be -- as we are looking at the sink, to
22 the right side of the sink.
23 A. Yes, sir.
24 Q. Was there any visible blood?
25 A. No, sir.

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 329

1 Q. How about inside the sink, was there
2 any visible blood when you looked inside the sink?
3 A. There was a few drops.
4 Q. Okay. Now, did you participate in a
5 trip to the house, where this particular area of the
6 counter top was luminaled?
7 A. Yes, sir.
8 Q. And luminal is what?
9 A. Well, it's just a chemical substance
10 that is made up, that you can spray on a table top, or
11 spray on anything that shows blood.
12 Q. All right. And, when this particular
13 area of the counter top was luminaled, what were the
14 results?
15 A. It looked like somebody had wiped up
16 blood off of that counter top.
17 Q. Okay. Again, before you did the
18 luminal, there was no apparent blood on this surface, was
19 there?
20 A. That's correct.
21 Q. On that tape that was just played,
22 could you hear any water running in a sink?
23 A. No, sir.
24 Q. While that tape was being played, I
25 noticed that the defendant was crying quite heavily, and

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 330

1 how many meetings did you have with this defendant, prior
2 to her arrest?
3 A. Well, it was several.
4 Q. Did you ever see her cry like that?
5 A. I saw her act, I never saw any tears.
6 Q. Okay. Well, I saw tears today. I'm
7 asking you. Did you ever see a tear come out of her eyes
8 during any of the meetings that you had with her, prior to
9 her arrest?
10 A. No, sir.
11 Q. Detective, at some point did the
12 Rowlett Police Department obtain a copy of a videotape
13 that was shot by KXAS?
14 A. I'm sorry?
15 Q. Did the Rowlett Police Department ever
16 obtain a copy of a videotape that was done by KXAS, at a
17 cemetery, in Rockwall, Texas?
18 A. Yes, sir.
19
20 MR. GREG DAVIS: Mark this, please.
21
22 (Whereupon, the above
23 mentioned item was
24 marked for
25 identification only

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 331

1 as State's Exhibit No. 27,
2 after which time the
3 proceedings were
4 resumed on the record
5 in open court, as
6 follows:)
7
8
9 BY MR. GREG DAVIS:
10 Q. Detective Patterson, let me show you
11 State's Exhibit No. 27. Is this, in fact, the tape that
12 was provided to your department by KXAS?
13 A. Yes, sir.
14 Q. Have you had an opportunity to review
15 it?
16 A. No, sir, I have not.
17 Q. At the time that you saw Darin Routier
18 at Baylor Hospital on June the 6th of 1996, did you know
19 whether or not Darin Routier had discussed the deaths of
20 his two children with his wife, Darlie Routier?
21 A. No, sir.
22 Q. Did you know at that time, whether he
23 approved of their deaths or not?
24 A. No, sir.
25 Q. Did you know whether he had witnessed

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 332

1 their deaths?
2 A. No, sir.
3 Q. Did you know what he really knew about
4 these deaths?
5 A. Not at that time.
6 Q. You said he made some comment about his
7 wife's breasts, what exactly did he say?
8 A. I would have to review the notes to see
9 exactly what he said, but when I walked in there the first
10 thing he talked about was, how pretty she was, and she had
11 big breasts.
12 Q. How long were you with him?
13 A. In the hospital?
14 Q. Yes, sir.
15 A. Just a few minutes.
16 Q. Besides the one broken wine glass, were
17 there any other items in that house that were broken?
18 A. No, sir.
19 Q. All right.
20
21 MR. GREG DAVIS: Pass the witness.
22
23
24
25

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 333

1 RECROSS EXAMINATION
2
3 BY MR. WAYNE HUFF:
4 Q. Officer, did you take any fingernail
5 scrapings from Mrs. Routier?
6 A. Well, we checked -- I asked the crime
7 scene officer about it, and she doesn't have any
8 fingernails, or she didn't at that time.
9 Q. None at all?
10 A. No, we did not.
11 Q. You didn't even try?
12 A. She didn't have enough to try.
13 Q. Did you find out what caused the cuts
14 on her hand?
15 A. No, sir.
16 Q. Did you ask Mrs. Routier what caused
17 them?
18 A. Yes, sir.
19 Q. What did she tell you?
20 A. During one of the interviews she just
21 thought that maybe she had gotten the cuts by that knife.
22 Q. Okay. She didn't know either, in other
23 words?
24 A. No.
25 Q. She was guessing?

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 334

1 A. Yes, sir.
2 Q. Did you get any professional opinions
3 about that?
4 A. No, sir.
5 Q. There was no blood in the sink?
6 A. There was a few drops.
7 Q. Okay. There was blood to the -- and
8 luminal showed there had been blood to the right of the
9 sink; is that correct?
10 A. Yes, sir.
11 Q. Well, I guess your theory, Officer, is
12 that someone cleaned up the blood around the sink?
13 A. Yes, sir.
14 Q. And you are telling the Court, that
15 they cleaned up over here, everything in the sink?
16 A. Yes, sir.
17 Q. And left this?
18 A. Yes, sir.
19 Q. They just forgot about that little bit
20 of blood on the front of the sink; is that right?
21 A. I don't know if they forgot, or if they
22 just didn't notice it.
23 Q. You didn't have any trouble noticing
24 it, did you, Officer?
25 A. No, sir.

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 335

1 Q. By the way, not having any drops of
2 blood in the sink would also be consistent with the water
3 running; is that correct?
4 A. I'm not sure what you are asking.
5 Q. Well, if you turn the water on to get
6 rags wet, and there was not any blood visible, except for
7 luminal, that would be consistent with that, wouldn't it?
8 A. Well, I'm still not sure.
9 Q. Well, Officer, if you have a bloody
10 rag, and you've got in the sink to get it wet, and the
11 water is running, then the blood is going to run down the
12 sink; is that right?
13 A. Yes, sir.
14 Q. Okay. Or it is going to get on the
15 towel, one or the other; is that right?
16 A. Yes, sir.
17 Q. And if you put the towel up on the
18 counter, and there is no visible blood except from
19 luminal, that means that could also be consistent with a
20 towel being up there, maybe with water and blood on it; is
21 that right?
22 A. Well, I'm not sure what you are saying.
23 Q. Well, you understand the luminal
24 process?
25 A. Right.

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 336

1 Q. You don't claim to be an expert on
2 it --
3 A. No, sir.
4 Q. But you understand it?
5 A. Yes, sir.
6 Q. It shows up where blood may have been,
7 that is not visible to the naked eye; is that correct?
8 A. That's correct.
9 Q. Okay. So, if you have got a rag that
10 had blood, and some blood, and a lot of water on it, and
11 they put it somewhere, and you couldn't see it with the
12 naked eye, but you could see it with luminal, that would
13 also be consistent with placing a rag on a counter top; is
14 that correct?
15 A. Yes, sir.
16 Q. Was the luminal done -- when was the
17 luminal test done, Officer?
18 A. I don't remember the date.
19 Q. Well, it wasn't the first or second
20 day, was it?
21 A. No, sir.
22 Q. Officer, based on your investigation,
23 was it your opinion that this was just a spur of the
24 moment crime, or was this planned, or do you have an
25 opinion?

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 337

1 A. I have an opinion.
2 Q. What is your opinion?
3 A. I'm not saying that she planned it out
4 over weeks, but I think that she just didn't wake up and
5 it happened.
6 Q. So it was planned?
7 A. I think that at least by a few minutes.
8 Q. Not very well planned; is that what you
9 are saying?
10 A. Yes, sir.
11 Q. Okay.
12
13 MR. WAYNE HUFF: I believe that's all,
14 your Honor.
15 MR. GREG DAVIS: No further questions.
16 THE COURT: You may step down, Officer.
17 MR. GREG DAVIS: The State will call
18 Charles Linch.
19 THE COURT: Were you sworn earlier?
20 THE WITNESS: Yes, sir, I was.
21 THE COURT: Please have a seat.
22
23
24
25

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 338

1 Whereupon,
2
3 CHARLES LINCH,
4
5 was called as a witness, for the State of Texas, having
6 been first duly sworn by the Court to speak the truth, the
7 whole truth, and nothing but the truth, testified in open
8 court, as follows:
9
10
11 DIRECT EXAMINATION
12
13 BY MR. GREG DAVIS:
14 Q. Sir, would you please tell us your full
15 name?
16 A. My name is Charles Linch, L-I-N-C-H.
17 Q. Mr. Linch, how are you employed?
18 A. Currently employed as a trace evidence
19 analyst at the Institute of Forensic Sciences here in
20 Dallas.
21 Q. How long have you been employed in that
22 capacity?
23 A. I have been at the Institute, off and
24 on, for the last 16 years. I have been in trace evidence
25 for the last nine years.

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 339

1 Q. All right. Let me ask you, if you
2 would, to briefly detail your educational and professional
3 background, that allows to you hold your present position?
4 A. From 1983 until 1987 I was a field
5 agent at the Institute. I went to the scene of over 500
6 death scenes during those four years. One hundred and two
7 of those were homicides, one hundred and thirty-three were
8 suicides, and 82 were accidents, and another 18 were
9 unclassified.
10 I have a Bachelor of Science from the
11 University of Houston, I attended the FBI hair and fiber
12 school, the FBI Forensic and Serology school, and the FBI
13 DNA analysis school.
14 Q. Let me ask you, what training or
15 experience have you had in analyzing blood drops or blood
16 patterns at death scenes?
17 A. The forensic serology school offered
18 instruction by Special Agent Bob Spalding with the FBI.
19 Q. As part of your duties, do you also
20 make microscopic examinations and analysis of items, such
21 as hair?
22 A. Yes, I do.
23 MR. GREG DAVIS: May I approach, your
24 Honor?
25 THE COURT: Sure.

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 340

1 BY MR. GREG DAVIS:
2 Q. Did you have an opportunity, at some
3 point, Mr. Linch, to go out to 5801 Eagle Drive?
4 A. Yes, I did.
5 Q. Do you recall when you first went out
6 there?
7 A. It was about 12:30 on June the 6th.
8 Q. And, did you have an opportunity to
9 walk through the house and examine the house?
10 A. Yes, I did.
11 Q. Let me start first with the photograph
12 of the utility room there at 5801 Eagle Drive. Do you
13 recognize that photograph?
14 A. Yes, I do.
15 Q. And the blood droplets -- are there
16 blood droplets on the ground here?
17 A. Yes, there are.
18 Q. All right. First of all, let me ask
19 you whether there is any blood evidence here that would be
20 consistent with a knife having been -- a blood-soaked
21 knife having been dropped on the utility floor?
22 A. No, sir, there isn't.
23 Q. All right. And, what would you expect
24 to see, if a knife with blood on it, had, in fact, been
25 dropped on the floor of the utility room?

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 341

1 A. You would expect to see some kind of
2 spatter where the knife had hit, and then maybe some skid
3 to go with it, depending on how much velocity it had.
4 Q. Okay. Did you find any of that on the
5 floor of the utility room?
6 A. I did not.
7 Q. You talked about some velocity, if you
8 would, just generally, what is velocity with regards to
9 blood drops.
10 A. Well, the whole science or art of blood
11 spatter is based in the physical flight characteristics of
12 blood. That is, blood will have a specific appearance on
13 a specific surface, given a particular volume at a
14 particular speed. And so, the -- that is what the area of
15 blood spatter entails.
16 Q. All right. Well, for instance, if I am
17 standing here, and I am bleeding, and I drop straight down
18 on the floor, is that going to be a drop with no velocity
19 to it?
20 A. That is right, other than the
21 perpendicular component.
22 Q. All right. If I am bleeding, and I
23 walk across this courtroom, at some sort of speed, are you
24 going to expect to see some sort of velocity, or angle
25 change on the blood drops on the floor?

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 342

1 A. It would depend on how fast you are
2 walking, and if your arm was swinging or not, and the type
3 of vessel that was injured. If it was a split arterial
4 spurting, it would be different than just a subcutaneous
5 cut.
6 Q. All right. The blood drops here on the
7 utility room floor, do they evidence a velocity?
8 A. Well, there is no appreciable velocity,
9 another than just straight down.
10 Q. All right. What conclusion would you
11 draw from the fact that there is no velocity with the
12 blood drops that are in the utility room?
13 A. Well, a person is either walking very
14 slowly, or standing over the area where the blood drops
15 were produced.
16 Q. Okay. Did you find any blood in the
17 garage?
18 A. At the time of our visit, there was
19 what appeared to be some blood out by the freezer. I was
20 later informed that that had probably been tracked by the
21 police and the first responders. It was not seen earlier.
22 Q. Okay. Did you also have an opportunity
23 to observe the kitchen floor?
24 A. Yes, I did.
25 Q. If we could, if we could look at the

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 343

1 diagram here, that has been marked as Defendant's Exhibit
2 No. -- well, this is actually State's Exhibit No. D.
3 A. Okay.
4 Q. This being a diagram that includes the
5 kitchen. First of all, if we will look here on the east
6 side of the island in the kitchen, you see there is a red
7 line that extends from the -- basically what we have been
8 calling the kitchen, the bar there that separates the
9 kitchen from the living room, there is a line, a red line,
10 that goes from that point over toward the utility room,
11 can you describe the blood drops that you found in that
12 area, sir?
13 A. There was quite a bit of blood in that
14 area. On the floor, a large percentage of those blood
15 drops are very similar to the blood drops in the utility
16 room. They appeared to have just a downward component,
17 with no accompanying, horizontal velocity.
18 Q. All right. Let me ask you then, the
19 blood drops that you found on the east side of the island,
20 would they be consistent or inconsistent with an
21 individual running through that area who is bleeding or
22 either had a bloody object in his hand?
23 A. Inconsistent.
24 Q. The same type of blood drops that you
25 found in the utility room; is that right?

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 344

1 A. That's right.
2 Q. In that nature?
3 A. That's right, the blood was very sparse
4 on the east side of the island.
5 Q. Did you find any bloody footprints in
6 that area of the kitchen?
7 A. I recall the bloody footprints more
8 toward the kitchen sink area.
9 Q. All right. So, whatever footprints
10 that you found would have been on the west side of the
11 island; is that correct?
12 A. That's right, and headed toward the
13 den.
14 Q. Now, if we look at the diagram, and if
15 we can envision a line that goes from the utility room,
16 toward the kitchen sink, did you also find some blood
17 drops in that area of the kitchen?
18 A. In addition to that on the floor?
19 Q. No, sir, I'm talking about on the
20 kitchen floor, in the area of the kitchen floor, this
21 would be on the west side of the island, leading from the
22 utility room towards the kitchen sink. Were there also
23 some blood drops on that portion of the floor?
24 A. Yes, sir, there were.
25 Q. All right. And, did those blood drops

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 345

1 evidence velocity or not?
2 A. They did not. They had the same slow
3 motion type character to them.
4 Q. Would they be consistent or
5 inconsistent with someone having run who is bleeding or
6 either carrying a bloody object in that part of the
7 kitchen?
8 A. They could have been carrying a bloody
9 object, but they were not running.
10 Q. Now, if we can, if we can talk about
11 the portion of the kitchen that deals with the area right
12 here in front of the kitchen sink, extending back toward
13 the edge of the kitchen bar, toward the living room or the
14 den area. Were there blood drops there also?
15 A. Yes, sir.
16 Q. Let's talk about first, the amount of
17 blood on the floor. Was it the same amount of blood, or
18 less blood, or more blood than you had seen on the other
19 portions of the kitchen floor?
20 A. There was a greater smear amount of
21 blood in that area.
22 Q. Do you recall there being a throw rug
23 or an area rug right here in front of the kitchen sink?
24 A. I don't have a specific recollection of
25 it, no, sir.

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 346

1 Q. If we could, if we could look at
2 State's Exhibit 13 and 14, do you see a green flowery rug
3 here, depicted on both of those photographs?
4 A. Yes, I do. I later examined that rug
5 in the laboratory.
6 Q. Okay. Is that in fact, a rug that
7 would have been placed, pretty much in front of the
8 kitchen sink then?
9 A. I don't know.
10 Q. Okay. Let's take a look at the area
11 then. Again, leading from the sink toward the -- to the
12 kitchen bar, did you find bloody footprints in that
13 portion of the room, sir?
14 A. Yes, sir.
15 Q. And, were they going in any particular
16 direction or not?
17 A. They were headed -- leaving the kitchen
18 sink area, and toward the -- either the front door or the
19 den, but in that general direction, away from the kitchen
20 sink.
21 Q. All right. Did you find any bloody
22 footprints that led toward the sink, sir?
23 A. No, I didn't.
24 Q. All right. Would the bloody footprints
25 that you found be consistent or inconsistent with an

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 347

1 individual who is bleeding, pacing back and forth, between
2 this kitchen sink, toward the island or the end of this
3 kitchen bar, pacing repeatedly, in this area, would it be
4 consistent or inconsistent with what you found, with
5 regards to the footprints?
6 A. I think it would be inconsistent,
7 provided that each pace went back to the original blood
8 source that the foot is then tracking further. The
9 bloodiest footprint was the only one headed away from the
10 sink, there were no other significant bloody feet prints.
11 Q. Okay. But there were more than one
12 bloody footprint, was there not?
13 A. Yes, sir.
14 Q. Okay. In fact, on State's Exhibit No.
15 14, we can find several different bloody footprints
16 leading away from the kitchen sink; is that right?
17 A. That's right.
18 Q. But again, you found no bloody
19 footprints that would have led toward the kitchen sink; is
20 that right?
21 A. They are all leading away.
22 Q. Now, in that area, did you also find
23 some bloody footprints that were actually underneath
24 broken glass?
25 A. I don't recall that.

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 348

1 Q. Okay. If we could, if we could look
2 here on State's Exhibit No. 14, do you recall that we have
3 looked at this and we have found what appears to be a
4 piece of broken glass laying on top of one of the bloody
5 footprints?
6 A. Yes, sir.
7 Q. Okay. Looking at State's Exhibit No.
8 13 and 14, are they, in fact, showing the same area of
9 that kitchen?
10 A. Yes, they are. The animal food trays
11 on the floor and the trash can are both present in the
12 photograph for orientation.
13 Q. And when we look at State's Exhibit No.
14 13, really, the only difference is a little bit of the
15 angle is different, and also, we have a vacuum cleaner
16 that is down on the floor; is that right?
17 A. That's right.
18 Q. Did you find bloody footprints
19 underneath this vacuum cleaner that had been laid on the
20 floor?
21 A. There are bloody footprints under the
22 vacuum cleaner. The vacuum cleaner had been removed,
23 prior to my arrival.
24 Q. Okay.
25 A. But, with regard to these photographs,

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 349

1 where you can, in one, see the vacuum cleaner lying down,
2 and in another, the area that exhibits bloody footprints,
3 would be underneath the overturned vacuum cleaner.
4 Q. So, is it fair to say that we have
5 bloody footprints that are underneath this vacuum cleaner?
6 A. Yes, sir
7 Q. Do we also have broken glass that is
8 underneath this vacuum cleaner?
9 A. Yes, sir.
10 Q. Okay. Let me ask you also, with
11 regards to the portion of the kitchen, and this is going
12 to be in the area of the kitchen, roughly by the end of
13 the kitchen, the bar, do you recall there being a wine
14 rack also?
15 A. Yes, I do.
16 Q. Did you find -- well, let me just ask
17 you this: Was the blood evidence there consistent or
18 inconsistent with a struggle having occurred in that
19 portion of the kitchen, with an individual who had a knife
20 in his hand?
21 A. That is inconsistent. That is a fairly
22 small area, and a fairly unstable wine rack was in that
23 area.
24 Q. Did you find any cast-off blood, in
25 that portion of the kitchen?

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 350

1 A. No, sir.
2 Q. And, what would cast-off blood have
3 indicated to you, if you had found it there?
4 A. Well, cast-off is a term that is
5 referred to the type of pattern you see after a knife has
6 been bloodied, and it is in this type of motion. I didn't
7 see any of that.
8 Q. So, for instance, if you and I were
9 standing in that portion of the kitchen and I have a knife
10 with blood on the edges of it, and I am attempting to
11 fight you and you are struggling with me, and I am pulling
12 back with that knife in order to stab you, is that where
13 we will get the blood cast off from the blade of that
14 knife on to an object higher, perhaps on a wall?
15 A. That's right.
16 Q. Matter of fact, in this entire house,
17 did you find any blood that you would consider to be high
18 in elevation?
19 A. The highest blood present in the house
20 that I saw was at the light fixture that is near the wine
21 rack that we just talked about.
22 Q. Did that appear to be cast-off blood or
23 another type of blood?
24 A. It would be consistent with a bloody
25 hand going to the light switch.

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 351

1 Q. Now, if we can, if we can talk about --
2 let's talk about this kitchen sink for a moment. Did you
3 have an opportunity to observe the kitchen sink out there?
4 A. Yes, I did.
5 Q. Can you tell the Court what you found
6 when you examined that sink?
7 A. Well, the kitchen sink and the faucet
8 fixture is stainless steel material, and the stainless
9 steel had been cleaned of blood, including the faucet.
10 The faucet tested positive for the presumptive presence of
11 blood that wasn't visible, but was still picked up. So
12 that area had been cleaned.
13 Q. Okay. And again; exactly what are you
14 basing your opinion on that the kitchen sink was cleaned?
15 What do you mean by cleaned, first of all?
16 A. The double sinks themselves were devoid
17 of blood with the exception of some watered down, bloody
18 material that had dripped down.
19 The area in front of the sink and below
20 the sink had a significant amount of blood to it. That
21 blood, in my opinion, could not have occurred without
22 getting some into the sink. So, it's been cleaned.
23 And the second thing is that there was
24 luminal testing done, which showed a positive reaction,
25 again a presumptive test for blood at the right side of

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 352

1 this stainless steel sink. So, the sinks had been washed
2 of blood.
3 Q. Okay. So this family area here, did
4 you also have an opportunity to observe it?
5 A. Yes, I did.
6 Q. And was there a good amount of blood in
7 that family room?
8 A. There was blood consistent with two
9 children being stabbed, yes.
10 Q. Let's talk about this couch that is
11 going to be on -- actually let's call this the west couch.
12 Was there any cast-off blood on that west couch?
13 A. I didn't see any.
14 Q. What type of blood did you see on that
15 couch?
16 A. It was a very minimal amount of blood,
17 if any at all, it would be a transfer smear type.
18 Q. What do you mean by transfer smear?
19 A. The first object had been bloodied, and
20 then is rubbed against it, like an arm or a leg.
21 Q. Would that transfer smear have been
22 consistent with a five year old child being stabbed at the
23 far end of this couch, or near the far end of this couch,
24 closer to that big screen television, and then actually
25 travelling in some manner, either on his hands or knees,

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 353

1 or walking and rubbing up next to this couch, as he walks
2 towards the glass end table?
3 A. Sure, and there was an additional
4 finding that supports that.
5 Q. Okay. And, that additional finding is
6 what?
7 A. It was a child's bloody handprint in
8 the floor, near this couch, which it looked like a child
9 had supported himself or attempted to support himself with
10 the bloody hand.
11 Q. Did you find any bloody handprints,
12 small bloody handprints, on the couch itself?
13 A. I don't recall any.
14 Q. The blood that you found on this couch,
15 was it consistent or inconsistent with an individual
16 laying on her back, with her head on this portion of the
17 couch, closest to the big screen television, having been a
18 cut in the neck, having a puncture wound to the left side
19 of her neck, closer to her left shoulder, and having a
20 right arm cut on this couch, was it consistent or
21 inconsistent with that, in your opinion?
22 A. It would be inconsistent.
23 Q. Why do you say that?
24 A. From the amount of bleeding that I
25 observed in the kitchen and on Mrs. Routier's T-shirt,

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 354

1 there was substantial bleeding from her, and unless she
2 was attacked, and immediately, within a micro second, got
3 up from that area, there should be some blood left from
4 her injuries.
5 Q. Did you detect any bloody footprints
6 leading from this couch toward the kitchen area? Do you
7 recall those?
8 A. No, I don't.
9 Q. Okay. Now you said that you had been
10 out to five hundred death scenes, as part of your work as
11 a medical examiner's agent, correct?
12 A. That's right.
13 Q. And, have you received training in the
14 overall analysis of death scenes?
15 A. Prior to becoming a field agent, I was
16 an autopsy technician, but not really death scenes --
17 well, I had instructions from personnel out at the medical
18 examiner's office, prior to doing that activity, but there
19 was no off site training for that, no.
20 Q. Did you form an overall opinion about
21 the crime scene, as it appeared at 5801 Eagle Drive?
22 A. Yes, I did.
23 Q. And what opinion did you form?
24 A. It appeared staged or altered.
25 Q. Why do you say that?

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 355

1 A. From the appearance of the kitchen, the
2 blood was consistent with someone standing there and
3 bleeding at the kitchen sink, and the sink had been
4 cleaned up. All of the blood that I saw or observed is a
5 slow motion, nobody is in a hurry type dynamic.
6 The wounding of the children appeared
7 to be controlled and precise. And with the exception of
8 the youngest child, there was minimum movement of the
9 children after a precise attack.
10 The cut screen on the garage was
11 curious. Home intruders don't cut screens, they pull them
12 off the windows.
13 Q. Let me just stop you right there.
14 Let's talk about that window and that screen.
15 Looking at State's Exhibit No. 10, when
16 you are referring to the window and the screen, are you
17 referring to the window shown in State's Exhibit No. 10?
18 A. Yes, I am.
19 Q. Were the screen and the window itself
20 actually brought to you by the Rowlett Police Department?
21 A. Yes, they were.
22 Q. Have you had an opportunity to examine
23 both of those items, sir?
24 A. Yes, I have.
25 Q. With regards to the screen, did you

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 356

1 make a determination of whether the screen had been cut
2 from the inside or the outside, and the manner in which it
3 had been cut?
4 A. I have an opinion as to the manner in
5 which it was cut. From my observations, it could have
6 been cut either from the outside or the inside. If it
7 were cut from the outside, it goes in a motion, from
8 right, in a smooth cutting stroke to the left. The screen
9 had to be restabilized with the hand, and then you do the
10 downward vertical component of this T-shaped defect. If
11 it were done from the inside, the person starts from left
12 to right instead of right to left.
13 Q. Okay. Did you observe any blood on
14 that screen?
15 A. No, I didn't.
16 Q. Did you have an opportunity to look at
17 the windowsill here portrayed in State's Exhibit No. 10?
18 A. Yes, I did.
19 Q. Did anything catch your attention as
20 you looked at that windowsill?
21 A. Well, the entire component?
22 Q. Well, just looking at the windowsill,
23 was there anything still in this windowsill? Was there
24 any dirt or dust or anything that you can recall?
25 A. No. Maybe a fine layer of dust, but

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 357

1 that's all.
2 Q. Could you see any scuff marks or blood
3 or anything on this windowsill to indicate that someone
4 had recently gone through it?
5 A. No, there was a slight bend on the
6 lower frame of the window screen, but other than that, no.
7 Q. Looking at the window frame itself, was
8 that examined by yourself?
9 A. The window?
10 Q. Yes, sir, the window.
11 A. Yes, it was.
12 Q. Now, did the Rowlett Police Department
13 supply you with hair samples that came from the defendant,
14 Darlie Routier?
15 A. Yes, Mrs. Routier came to the Institute
16 and provided hair samples and blood.
17 Q. Did you find any hairs in the window
18 that were submitted to you by Rowlett?
19 A. When Rowlett first submitted the
20 window, and it came to the Institute, it was not examined
21 thoroughly. A decision was made to send it to the Dallas
22 Sheriff's Office for laser printing. It goes to the
23 Sheriff's physical evidence lab, then it is returned back
24 to my office for examination.
25 The initial request was to look for

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 358

1 scratches on the glass, and there were scratches, but you
2 couldn't do that with a kitchen knife. It would have to
3 be something else.
4 In addition, there was a hair found in
5 the left side of the window, within the window track.
6 Q. Okay. Did you compare the hair that
7 you found in the left track of that window to the head
8 hair that had been submitted to you by Darlie Routier?
9 A. Yes, I did.
10 Q. And what were the results of your
11 analysis?
12 A. The head hair from the window itself
13 had been forcibly removed, and it had the same microscopic
14 characteristics as Mrs. Routier.
15 Q. Were there any particular
16 characteristics that you looked to, to make that
17 comparison?
18 A. Well, there are a number of internal,
19 structural things that the microscopist looks at, in doing
20 side by side comparison. Her hair is treated or bleached,
21 and has some untreated root end components. So, all of
22 those things are taken into account.
23 Q. Okay. Did you compare the length of
24 her untreated -- the untreated portion of her hair, that
25 she submitted to you with the untreated portion of the

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 359

1 hair that you obtained from the window?
2 A. Yes, I did.
3 Q. What was the results?
4 A. The amount of untreated shaft on the
5 found hair was within the range of the amount of untreated
6 shaft, at the time of her visit to the Institute.
7 Q. It would be contemporaneous?
8 A. It could be.
9 Q. Looking now at State's Exhibit No. 9,
10 do you recognize the butcher block and the eight knives
11 that are shown in that photograph, sir?
12 A. Yes, sir, I do.
13 Q. Were they submitted to you for analysis
14 also?
15 A. Yes, they were.
16 Q. And, if you will, if you will briefly
17 tell the Court what you did with those knives?
18 A. An examination was made of each knife
19 handle and knife blade for any possible foreign or trace
20 material. And, looking at the butcher block, if you use
21 the numbering system of the lower knives, the number 1
22 knife which is present in the block was there, there is a
23 number 2 spot, that was empty. There is a number 3 spot,
24 that had a knife, and then the fourth knife that was on
25 the far left end was also present in the block.

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 360

1 On the top of this butcher block, there
2 are also five other knives that are sitting in their
3 respective places. And so, there is one knife missing
4 from this butcher block that holds nine knives.
5 Q. Okay. Looking at the knife portrayed
6 in State's Exhibit No. 8, did you try to determine, sir,
7 whether this particular knife would fit into the empty
8 slot shown on the butcher block, in State's Exhibit No. 9?
9 A. I didn't physically attempt it, but it
10 could.
11 Q. Okay. Now, let me just ask you, did
12 you find anything that you found to be unusual on any of
13 these particular knives that you later analyzed?
14 A. The knives from the butcher block, the
15 knife that I described as number 4 on the bottom far left
16 slot of the butcher block, there was obtained
17 microscopically some material from the serrated blade of
18 that knife.
19 This material consisted of rubbery,
20 dust residue, and a single glass rod. This glass rod
21 measured about 10 microns by 40 microns, and that would
22 be, about as half as thick as a thin, human hair, but this
23 glass rod was present on the blade of the knife.
24 Q. Did you compare that material that you
25 found on the blade on knife number 4, to the material that

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 361

1 makes up this window screen shown in State's Exhibit No.
2 10?
3 A. Yes, I did.
4 Q. And what were the results of your
5 comparison?
6 A. The screen cloth is composed of a PVC
7 or a poly vinyl chloride type material, or some derivative
8 thereof, a rubbery material, black. This rubbery material
9 encircles a core bundle of fiberglass rods, that the
10 fiberglass rods composing the screen are the same diameter
11 and general appearance as the single, glass rod fragment
12 from the knife blade.
13 In addition, upon test cutting, you can
14 obtain different thickness sections of the rubbery
15 material from the screen cloth, that appear
16 microscopically similar to the rubbery material -- or the
17 screen cloth rubbery material was microscopically similar
18 to the rubber dust particles from that number 4 knife.
19 Q. So, the bottom line, with regard to the
20 material that you found on knife number 4, what is your
21 conclusion about that material?
22 A. Knife number 4 could have cut the
23 screen.
24 Q. All right.
25

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 362

1 MR. GREG DAVIS: Pass the witness.
2
3
4 CROSS EXAMINATION
5
6 BY MR. DOUGLAS PARKS:
7 Q. Mr. Linch, you have testified regarding
8 blood spatter and analysis. Do you rely upon any
9 particular publications or authorities, in your expertise
10 in that area?
11 A. There are several folks who are
12 recognized in actually founding the science of blood
13 spattering interpretation. Herbert McDonald, Bob Spalding
14 is probably one of the first folks involved with the
15 science early on. Dr. Stone at the Institute, has been
16 involved with blood spatter analysis. And, that would be
17 about it.
18 Q. Are there publications that one could
19 go to, if he wanted to learn about blood spatter, without
20 going to work for a crime lab or something, a lay person
21 deciding he wants to learn a little something, where would
22 one go?
23 A. Yes, sir, there is a text by Herbert
24 McDonald on blood flight characteristics. Any forensic
25 science section of the library has -- any criminalistics

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 363

1 book would have a chapter on blood spatter, just about
2 any.
3 Q. About when was Dr. McDonald's book
4 written?
5 A. I don't know.
6 Q. During the course of your
7 investigation, both on the scene and at SWIFS, did you
8 have occasion to make notes and write reports and things
9 of that kind?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. Did you bring copies of that material
12 with you today?
13 A. I brought the originals.
14 Q. May I take a look at those?
15 A. Sure.
16 Q. While I am thinking about it, Mr.
17 Linch, have you undertaken to group or attempt to
18 recognize in some way whose blood was where, at that
19 scene?
20 A. That is an on-going process in our DNA
21 laboratory, and I have not been told any results, if they
22 have results.
23 Q. Okay. So, as we speak today, we don't
24 know right now, the blood that you have testified about,
25 whose is where?

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 364

1 A. I don't know, they might know.
2 Q. Who is they?
3 A. Caroline Van Winkle is doing the DNA
4 work.
5 Q. Out at SWIFS?
6 A. Yes, sir.
7 Q. Okay. Has she given you any indication
8 when she thought that that work would be completed?
9 A. No, sir, she has not.
10 Q. You went to the scene on June the 6th,
11 1996, at about 12:30 P.M.; is that correct?
12 A. That's right.
13 Q. Okay. And, about how long were you at
14 the scene, Mr. Linch?
15 A. We left about 3:30.
16 Q. And who went with you?
17 A. Kathryn Long, a forensic serologist at
18 the Institute.
19 Q. Did you take any samples yourself at
20 that time?
21 A. I didn't, now, Ms. Long took some
22 samples at my direction.
23 Q. Do you recall off the top of your head
24 where those samples were taken from?
25 A. Sure. She -- I initially asked her to

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 365

1 do presumptive testing in the different bathrooms. And,
2 as we worked our way through the house, she took blood
3 samples from inside this stainless steel sink, that I
4 testified that I thought was cleaned of blood. She did
5 presumptive testing on the water faucet, and that was
6 positive.
7 She took some sections out of various
8 areas of the carpet, in the den or living area.
9 Q. How did she do that?
10 A. With scissors, just cut the fiber
11 strands. On that visit, she took a sample from this light
12 switch, where the smeared blood was in the kitchen, and I
13 think she took maybe a total of 9 to 13 blood samples.
14 Q. Is it your plan to analyze all of
15 those?
16 A. Well, I'm not sure what requests have
17 been made by the State as to how many of what types to
18 analyze.
19 Q. Okay. All of that would have gone to
20 Caroline Van Winkle?
21 A. Yes, sir, that would be a question for
22 her.
23 Q. You indicated that you went out to the
24 utility room section?
25 A. Yes, sir.

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 366

1 Q. And you saw some drops of blood there
2 on the floor; is that correct?
3 A. That's right.
4 Q. Did you see a black baseball cap on the
5 floor?
6 A. The cap was not in the middle of the
7 floor, as indicated in this photograph. So, I didn't see
8 it at that time.
9 Q. But where was it, if you remember?
10 A. My understanding from the person who
11 recovered it, said that it was maybe like between a washer
12 and dryer, or not in an obvious area.
13 Q. Were you there when they recovered the
14 cap?
15 A. No.
16 Q. Any reason that you know of, why it
17 would have been moved to a central location to be
18 photographed?
19 A. I don't know.
20 Q. Were any blood samples taken off of the
21 cap?
22 A. I think there were, but again that
23 would be a question for serology, DNA.
24 Q. Okay. Now, did you see some blood, not
25 on the floor, in that utility room?

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 367

1 A. I believe there was some on the higher
2 up appliance-type materials.
3 Q. Okay. Washing machine, something like
4 that?
5 A. Yes, sir.
6 Q. Do you recall what type of -- was that
7 drops or smears or do you remember?
8 A. Well, I don't recall.
9 Q. What about on the door itself, going
10 into the utility room from the kitchen, do you recall
11 seeing any blood there?
12 A. Yes, sir, there was some -- a transfer
13 smear type on the inside surface, that also continued into
14 the part of the door that fits flush with the door facing.
15 Q. Okay. What about the door that leads
16 from the utility room into the garage, did you see any
17 blood on that door?
18 A. Well, that was the door I was just
19 talking about.
20 Q. That was the door you were referring
21 to?
22 A. Right.
23 Q. Okay. Did that blood smear on the door
24 leading into the garage also have at least a partial
25 bloody fingerprint?

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 368

1 A. I don't recall. I was leaving the
2 identification and characterization of fingerprints up to
3 the police personnel.
4 Q. You indicated that you proceeded into
5 the garage and saw some blood out there; is that correct?
6 A. That is right.
7 Q. Where was that?
8 A. There is -- as you come out of the
9 utility room and take a left towards the window, there is
10 a freezer. Down in that floor, there was some sort of
11 sign, plastic sign, maybe this big and there was some --
12 not a discernible blood footprint, but a light shadow of
13 transfer smeared type blood.
14 Q. Okay. Did it appear to be a footprint
15 transfer?
16 A. It could have come from a shoe.
17 Q. You indicated that you were advised
18 that it was probably left by a police officer?
19 A. I was advised that it was not seen
20 earlier.
21 Q. Who advised you of that?
22 A. Retired Lieutenant Jim Cron with --
23 Q. Okay. So, what we know is, there is
24 what appears to be, a part at least, of a bloody shoe
25 print in the garage there when you got there, but you

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 369

1 don't know --
2 A. Well, I don't know if it was a shoe or
3 bare foot or what, it was an indiscernible smudge of
4 blood.
5 Q. Okay. Were any samples taken of that,
6 as far as you know?
7 A. Yes, we took samples.
8 Q. And Caroline Van Winkle would have
9 those?
10 A. Kathy took it, and delivered it to
11 Carolyn Van Winkle.
12 Q. Okay. Any other blood out there in
13 that garage area that you saw?
14 A. No, sir.
15 Q. You testified, Mr. Linch, that you saw
16 nothing in the utility room that would have been
17 consistent with a blood-soaked knife having been dropped
18 in the utility area?
19 A. That's correct.
20 Q. Now, would it be fair to say that --
21 well, let me just ask you this, what is a blood-soaked
22 knife, in your estimation?
23 A. Well, it would be one like we got at
24 the Institute. It's literally coated with dried blood
25 when we got it.

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 370

1 Q. It was very bloody when you got it?
2 A. Yes, sir.
3 Q. Okay. If a knife is used to commit an
4 offense, a stabbing of this kind, and let's just assume
5 that an assailant stabbed -- did the things that you
6 understand happened in this house today, took a knife with
7 him through the kitchen and put it down on the floor,
8 would you expect to see signs of that necessarily?
9 A. Put it down on the floor?
10 Q. Yes, sir.
11 A. I would expect to see an outline of it.
12 Q. That would assume that the knife was
13 bloody?
14 A. Right, right.
15 Q. If the person had wiped the knife off,
16 of course, it would not necessarily leave any signs; is
17 that -- would that be fair to say?
18 A. Yes, sir, that's right.
19 Q. Whether it was laid down or dropped?
20 A. Yes, sir.
21 Q. Because whether or not you see signs of
22 a knife having been dropped, or put down, or placed at a
23 particular location, would depend more on the amount of
24 blood on the knife than it would anything else, would that
25 be fair to say?

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 371

1 A. Yes, sir.
2 Q. All right.
3
4 MR. DOUGLAS PARKS: Your Honor, Mr.
5 Huff whispers in my left ear that it is going to take us a
6 little while to go through these reports. Would this be
7 an appropriate time --
8 THE COURT: You mean to read the
9 documents you got about thirty minutes ago, or an hour
10 ago?
11 MR. DOUGLAS PARKS: Yes, sir.
12 MR. WAYNE HUFF: We just got these,
13 Judge. I'm a little faster reader than that, your Honor.
14 THE COURT: Oh, okay.
15 MR. DOUGLAS PARKS: I can ask him a few
16 other things, but I am just suggesting that I am not going
17 to be able to finish before we have to review that.
18 THE COURT: Well, we have already got
19 it interrupted now. Why don't we just recess until 1:30.
20 You may step down.
21
22 (Whereupon, a short
23 recess was taken,
24 after which time,
25 the proceedings were

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 372

1 resumed on the record,
2 in the presence and
3 hearing of the defendant
4 as follows:)
5
6 THE COURT: Let's go back on the
7 record. All right.
8 MR. DOUGLAS PARKS: I'm ready. May I
9 proceed?
10 THE COURT: Yes. This is resumption of
11 the hearing, the defendant and her counsel, and the
12 State's counsel are present.
13 All right, go ahead.
14 MR. DOUGLAS PARKS: Would you mark
15 these, please?
16
17 (Whereupon, the above
18 mentioned item was
19 marked for
20 identification only
21 as Defendant's Exhibits
22 No. 10, 11, 12 & 13,
23 after which time the
24 proceedings were
25 resumed on the record

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 373

1 in open court, as
2 follows:)
3
4
5 CROSS EXAMINATION (Resumed)
6
7 BY MR. DOUGLAS PARKS:
8 Q. Mr. Linch, let me show you what has
9 been marked as Defendant's Exhibits No. 10, 11, 12, and
10 13; are those the original of your reports and notes that
11 you furnished to me, prior to our lunch recess?
12 A. Yes, they are. Defendant's 10 is my
13 report of June the 28th, with accompanying notes.
14 Defendant's 11 is my original report with notes, dated
15 June 20th. Defendant's 12 is my report of June 17th with
16 the accompanying original notes. And Defendant's 13, is
17 my report of July 5th with the accompanying notes.
18
19 MR. DOUGLAS PARKS: Your Honor, at this
20 time, we would offer these into the record, for record
21 purposes only, with the understanding that copies will be
22 substituted.
23 MR. GREG DAVIS: No objection.
24 THE COURT: Received.
25

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 374

1 (Whereupon, the above
2 mentioned items were
3 received in evidence
4 for record purposes,
5 as Defendant's Exhibits
6 No. 10, 11, 12 & 13,
7 after which time, the
8 proceedings were
9 resumed as follows:)
10
11 BY MR. DOUGLAS PARKS:
12 Q. Mr. Linch, let's go back just a moment
13 to the bloody footprint in the garage, if I understood you
14 correctly, you were not able to tell whether that was made
15 by a barefoot or shoed foot?
16 A. Well, or even a foot. It's a smear
17 impression of blood.
18 Q. Was a photograph made of that?
19 A. I don't know.
20 Q. When you got there about 12:30 P.M. on
21 June 6th, what was the condition of the blood at the rest
22 of the scene, from the standpoint of, was it dried, or was
23 it not, or do you recall?
24 A. For the most part it was dried.
25 Q. Do you recall, a plastic runner that

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 375

1 came from the entryway area back through the hallway, into
2 the den area --
3 A. You are talking about the large
4 rectangle piece?
5 Q. Yes, sir.
6 A. Yes, sir, I do.
7 Q. And, as best you recall, was the blood
8 on that runner pretty much in a dried condition by that
9 time?
10 A. Pretty much, yes, sir.
11 Q. And in the kitchen?
12 A. Yes, sir, I don't know about the rug.
13 The rug may have still had some moist element to it, but
14 it was --
15 Q. Was the rug -- I'm sorry. Was the rug
16 in the den area still there when you were there on June
17 6th?
18 A. The rug in the den? Which one was
19 that?
20 Q. The carpet?
21 A. Oh, the white --
22 Q. Yes.
23 A. Yes, it was.
24 Q. Did you have occasion to do any
25 investigation of the blood and other trace evidence on

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 376

1 that carpet in that area?
2 A. The floor area had previously been
3 looked at for hairs, and we received those in the
4 laboratory. I did the tapings of the coffee table glass
5 in that area for hairs. Kathy Long, at my direction, did
6 take some blood samples from the carpet.
7 Q. Who do you understand took hair samples
8 before you got there?
9 A. It would either be David Mayne, or one
10 of his associates.
11 Q. David Mayne being the property person
12 at the Rowlett Police Department; is that correct?
13 A. He was working the crime scene when I
14 arrived.
15 Q. Okay. Aside from David Mayne, who do
16 you recall being at the crime scene when you and your
17 assistant arrived?
18 A. Detective Patterson, Lieutenant Jim
19 Cron, and there were several other Rowlett officers that I
20 don't know their names.
21 Q. Were they uniformed officers or plain
22 clothes?
23 A. There were at least two uniformed, yes,
24 sir.
25 Q. Do you know about how long Cron had

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 377

1 been there?
2 A. He told me he had been there since
3 early on.
4 Q. Okay. And, was he still there when you
5 left?
6 A. I don't recall.
7 Q. Okay.
8 A. I don't recall if he was or not.
9 Q. Okay. In the den area, where the boys
10 were found, besides blood and hair, did y'all collect any
11 other kind of evidence?
12 A. I asked -- or it was done, that a strip
13 of carpeting behind the couch, between the couch and the
14 glass doors to the back yard, was cut up and collected.
15 Q. Why was that?
16 A. There were what appeared to be some
17 foot impressions on it, bloody foot impressions.
18 Q. From a bare foot or a shoed foot?
19 A. I don't know.
20 Q. Were photographs made of that?
21 A. Yes, sir.
22 Q. Have you done any testing on that piece
23 of carpet since you had it cut out?
24 A. I have not, serology, or DNA may have.
25 Q. Is that in the kind of shape where you

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 378

1 will be able to determine whether it was made a bare foot
2 or a shoed foot?
3 A. These were not distinguishable
4 patterns. If it were a shoe, you couldn't include or
5 exclude shoes, in my opinion. I would -- the more I think
6 about it, I would have the opinion that it was a shoe,
7 more likely than a bare foot.
8 Q. Other than the clippings for blood that
9 you have talked about, was the handprint cut out, the
10 small handprint?
11 A. Yes, it was.
12 Q. Was that done at your direction?
13 A. No, sir.
14 Q. Okay. The handprint was cut out, or
15 the shoe print or the footprint, or that print behind the
16 couch was cut out. Anything else that you recall being
17 taken from the carpet there at the scene?
18 A. From the carpet itself?
19 Q. Yes.
20 A. Other than various blood samples, no,
21 sir.
22 Q. What about glass, did you observe any
23 glass on that carpet?
24 A. I didn't, no.
25 Q. Did you look for any glass on the

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 379

1 carpet?
2 A. I looked for anything that may be
3 there, and I don't recall glass being there. I was not
4 specifically looking for glass.
5 Q. Okay. Did you find any blood on the
6 wine rack?
7 A. I didn't, no.
8 Q. Do you know whether anyone else did?
9 A. No, I don't know.
10 Q. Any blood under the wine rack?
11 A. I don't know, I didn't look underneath
12 it.
13 Q. You have indicated that you found a
14 hair in the track where the -- if I understand you
15 correctly, the window is raised up and down, there in the
16 garage; is that correct?
17 A. That's right.
18 Q. Did you make any sort of investigation
19 of the window -- in that garage area, how many windows, on
20 the lower level, along that wall?
21 A. How many windows?
22 Q. Does that make sense? If you were to
23 go into the garage and raise the windows, how many windows
24 would you raise?
25 A. At least two, there may have been

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 380

1 three, I don't recall.
2 Q. Did you inspect the window, that was --
3 where the screen was not cut, to see whether or not it was
4 locked?
5 A. No, I didn't.
6 Q. If we assume, at this point Mr. Linch,
7 that a person -- the intruder came into the house, through
8 the screen, went into the house and stabbed these two
9 children and Mrs. Routier and made his escape back out
10 through the garage area, and back through the back window,
11 which way would you expect the flap on the window screen
12 to be?
13 A. It could be either way. In doing test
14 cuts on that screen next to it, this rubbery material and
15 the fiberglass that the screen cloth is made of is very
16 elastic. So, you may go through one way and have it
17 oscillate either way, and the way it ends up, is due to
18 physics beyond my control.
19 Q. If a person had done that, would there
20 necessarily have been blood on the windowsill, or on the
21 window?
22 A. Could somebody who had bloody clothing
23 get through there and not leave blood?
24 Q. Yes.
25 A. It may be possible.

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 381

1 Q. Is it possible to know how bloody a
2 person would even necessarily be, who did that?
3 A. Is it possible to know, having done
4 this wounding, how bloody that individual would be?
5 Q. Yes.
6 A. I would for sure expect bloody hands,
7 but beyond that would be speculation.
8 Q. With respect to going over a fence,
9 would you expect to necessarily find blood or scuff marks
10 on the fence, if a person went over a fence?
11 A. It may not be found. It may be so
12 slight that you did not find it.
13 Q. The hair that you found, that has the
14 same characteristics, I believe you testified as Mrs.
15 Routier's, that was found some period of time after the
16 screen was collected; is that correct?
17 A. The two screens were collected and the
18 window was collected and the hair was found after the
19 window had come to our laboratory, to the sheriff's
20 department, the physical evidence section, and back to our
21 laboratory. I was not necessarily looking for it, I was
22 lifting the window to look for, again scratch defects, as
23 was the original request, and then the hair was seen.
24 Q. Okay. You found some material inside
25 the butcher block; is that correct?

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 382

1 A. Kathryn Long removed some material from
2 inside the butcher block.
3 Q. Okay. The fiber or the fiberglass rod
4 that you found on the knife --
5 A. Right.
6 Q. Is there any way to know how long that
7 had been there?
8 A. No, sir.
9 Q. Are you presently aware, Mr. Linch, of
10 any other type of material that a substance such as that
11 might have come from, other than a window screen?
12 A. You are asking what other materials
13 contain fiberglass?
14 Q. Well, yes, fiberglass with this
15 rubberized, or whatever?
16 A. Well, I have looked at a number of
17 items that are made with fiberglass, and the only one
18 that -- it really wasn't even similar, but the fiberglass,
19 in conjunction with the rubbery residue, is the inclusion
20 or exclusion of these other items, and the diameter of the
21 glass rod. Some black electrical tape has fiberglass in
22 it, but the black sticky resin that accompanies that
23 fiberglass, would be different, and would be discernible
24 on a knife.
25 Q. Okay. With respect to the rate of

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 383

1 travel that a person would have to go, and -- I'm not
2 trying to be facetious, Mr. Linch, I know that you can't
3 tell us in miles per hour, but can you give us some idea
4 of how fast or slow a person, in your expectation, would
5 be moving to leave the blood drops that you observed at
6 the scene? Could it be a slow walk, a fast walk, or --
7 A. I would characterize it as a slow walk.
8 Q. Did you see any indication from the
9 blood evidence that you saw out there that day, that
10 anyone had run through the house while they were bleeding?
11 A. I'm sorry?
12 Q. Did you see any indication of anyone
13 having run through the house while they were bleeding?
14 A. The only drop that I saw with any
15 velocity, was on a wall heading toward the front door,
16 lower portion of the wall, to the right, as you are going
17 out the front door.
18 Q. Do you recall whether or not there was
19 any blood on the front steps of the house?
20 A. The front steps?
21 Q. Yes, sir.
22 A. I don't recall.
23 Q. Mr. Linch, you have indicated to us
24 that after having viewed this scene -- well, first, let me
25 ask you. You went out there on June the 6th. I believe

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 384

1 you indicated that was the first time you went out there.
2 How many other trips did you make?
3 A. I made one other.
4 Q. And about when was that?
5 A. That would have been about the time
6 that the crime scene was to be released. I don't recall
7 the exact date.
8 Q. Ten or 11 days later, or something like
9 that?
10 A. Sir?
11 Q. Ten or 11 days later, something like
12 that, would that be about right?
13 A. Probably. It would be in the notes.
14 Q. What did you do that time?
15 A. It was a final visit to look at other
16 items. We went out, specifically, we went out and looked
17 at the back gate area, where the latch was, and there was
18 some stained material that looked like blood, but was not
19 blood. And also, in the driveway there were some dropped
20 similar looking stained material that looked like blood,
21 but was not blood.
22 I went into the jaccuzi area, there in
23 the back. So, it was just a general re-walk through type
24 of visit.
25 Q. Did you take any other evidence that

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 385

1 day, that you recall?
2 A. Kathryn Long took additional blood
3 samples from the white carpet in the den.
4 Q. So that carpet was still there at that
5 time?
6 A. Yes, sir, it was.
7 Q. Do you know when it was moved?
8 A. No, sir, I don't.
9 Q. On that visit, in taking samples from
10 the carpet, do you recall having seen any glass on that
11 carpet area?
12 A. No, I don't.
13 Q. A couple of things, Mr. Linch, and I'll
14 be through.
15 With respect to the size of the
16 fiberglass sample that you took from the knife.
17 A. Yes, sir.
18 Q. You told us the dimensions of it, but
19 that doesn't much mean anything to me. Can you compare it
20 to the size of something?
21 A. Yes. I also testified that it is about
22 half as thick as a thin, human hair.
23 Q. About how long would it have been?
24 A. Four times that thickness.
25 Q. Okay.

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 386

1 A. So it's not really visible to the
2 unaided eye.
3 Q. Okay. You can see it with
4 magnification?
5 A. Only.
6 Q. Only.
7 A. Yes, sir.
8 Q. Okay. With respect to the area of the
9 sink, where you indicated that, in your opinion, that
10 there had been some clean up. How does the luminal
11 process work?
12 A. It works in a similar way that the
13 other presumptive blood testing works. It's that the iron
14 in hemoglobin is a very strong oxidizing agent, and if you
15 are able to cause the present iron to oxidize your reagent
16 chemical and get some type of reaction in the instance of
17 luminal, a fluorescence, not a fluorescence, but a
18 phosfluorescence, then any occult, or latent blood may be
19 visualized in darkness.
20 Q. Then, do you have to what, take an
21 infrared light or something?
22 A. No, sir, it is bright upon it's own.
23 Q. Okay. Were any photographs made of
24 that process, do you know?
25 A. I think there were.

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 387

1 Q. Do you know who did that?
2 A. I believe that was done with the
3 assistance of Richardson Police Department.
4 Q. Was that before you got there?
5 A. It was done in my absence.
6 Q. Okay.
7 A. It was done after my first visit.
8 Q. How much blood would there have had to
9 have been there before there would be a reaction to the
10 luminal?
11 A. You can't say. It's a very trace
12 amount.
13 Q. Okay. Will it react to anything other
14 than human blood?
15 A. Sure.
16 Q. What?
17 A. Copper will give a reaction, and that's
18 the main one. There's some other items that I don't
19 recall right offhand.
20 Q. Well, Mr. Linch, you have indicated to
21 us that after you had visited the scene, looked at it and
22 studied it, that it is your opinion that this scene had
23 been staged or altered; is that correct?
24 A. That's right.
25 Q. Based upon your examination, if you

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 388

1 would, please, tell us in light of that, what you believe
2 happened to be consistent with the scene as you found it
3 to be?
4 A. What do I believe the scenario was?
5 Q. Yes.
6
7 MR. GREG DAVIS: Well, you know, again,
8 I'll ask that the witness testify, if he is capable of
9 answering the question and feels qualified. If not, then
10 I would expect the witness to tell the Court that.
11 THE WITNESS: The -- in not only with
12 the scene, but in comparing body examination information
13 of the children and other things, it is consistent with
14 the older child being stabbed twice in the chest, at least
15 twice in the chest, in the den area, in the floor. The
16 younger child, it seems quite consistent with him
17 receiving possibly some injury in the floor, and righting
18 himself, and then coming around the couch, and either
19 collapsing on his own, or being attacked again, and
20 falling at that spot.
21 The sink area, it is clear that an
22 adult stood there, after either doing self wounding, or
23 after being wounded, and the blood being shed into the
24 sink, and down the front of the sink, into the floor.
25 After that -- and then at some point, the stainless steel

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 389

1 portion of sink is cleaned.
2 At the point when the blood is still
3 wet, the wounded person comes out of the sink area, at
4 least once. There is a wounded person walking from the
5 kitchen sink area to the door, leading into the garage.
6 The screen is consistent with having
7 been cut from the outside, with someone with an arm
8 stretch who can make a right to left, smooth,
9 uninterrupted stroke. If you cut that screen and you stop
10 at all, then you get significant jags. This is a very
11 smooth cut.
12 The screen is restabilized with the
13 left hand, a cut is made perpendicular, and the bottom of
14 that perpendicular cut, the rubberized material covering
15 these fiberglass bundles is significantly denuded. By
16 that I mean, there is more fiberglass bundle exposed, and
17 therefore, that would be consistent more with a serrated
18 knife than a straight edged knife.
19 And, the other view of the crime scene
20 is, there is obvious paramedic intervention and creation
21 of some artifact.
22
23 BY MR. DOUGLAS PARKS:
24 Q. Are you able to tell whether the
25 wounded person at the sink, who made at least one trip

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 390

1 away from the sink, was the same person, or could it have
2 been a different person who made the trip to the utility
3 room?
4 A. It was a barefooted person.
5 I'm sorry. I didn't understand your
6 question. The person with the bare feet, could it have
7 been the same or different going towards the door leaving
8 the blood?
9 Q. Yes.
10 A. It could be the same or different.
11 Q. Okay. But we know whoever it was
12 barefooted?
13 A. Sir?
14 Q. We know whoever it was, was barefooted?
15 A. Going toward the door to the garage?
16 Q. Yes.
17 A. No, I don't know that.
18 Q. Okay. Were you able to see any places
19 in the kitchen area, let's say between the island and the
20 wine rack, blood drops that appeared to you, to have been
21 stepped in by the time you got there?
22 A. I'm sorry, could you repeat that?
23 Q. The blood drops on the floor, between
24 the island in the kitchen, do you recall that?
25 A. Yes, sir.

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 391

1 Q. And the wine rack?
2 A. Right.
3 Q. Did you -- or, were you able to
4 determine whether anybody had stepped in any of that blood
5 before you got there?
6 A. When you view blood at a scene where
7 there has been police traffic, and paramedic traffic, you
8 always have that in the back of your mind. There is
9 always artifact creation. From what I saw, it didn't seem
10 to be significantly disturbed while wet. While dry, I
11 don't know.
12 Q. Okay. On the wine rack, Dr. Linch, did
13 you see any glass on that wine rack?
14 A. I'm not a doctor. But, did I see any
15 wine glasses on the rack?
16 Q. No, any glass on the wine rack? Broken
17 glass?
18 A. Oh, no, I didn't.
19 Q. Had the glass been removed before you
20 got there, or did you see the broken wine glass yourself?
21 A. There was glass fragments still in the
22 floor when I got there.
23 Q. Okay. What about the stem and base, do
24 you remember seeing that?
25 A. I don't recall if it was still there or

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 392

1 not.
2 Q. Okay.
3
4 MR. DOUGLAS PARKS: That's all I have,
5 your Honor.
6
7
8 REDIRECT EXAMINATION
9
10 BY MR. GREG DAVIS:
11 Q. Mr. Linch, just one question. About
12 the cap that was found in the utility room that was
13 submitted to you for analysis, did you find any hairs
14 inside the cap?
15 A. Yes, I did.
16 Q. And, were you submitted a head hair
17 from the body of Devon Routier?
18 A. Yes, sir.
19 Q. And, did you make a comparison between
20 the hair that you found inside of that baseball cap with a
21 head hair from Devon Routier?
22 A. Yes, I did.
23 Q. And, what was the result of your
24 comparison?
25 A. The hair was consistent with one of the

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 393

1 children, I can't remember which, you have my notes.
2 Q. So it's either consistent with Devon or
3 Damon Routier; is that correct?
4 A. That's right.
5
6 MR. GREG DAVIS: No further questions.
7 MR. DOUGLAS PARKS: Nothing further,
8 your Honor.
9 THE COURT: All right. You may step
10 down.
11 MR. DOUGLAS PARKS: We would agree that
12 Mr. Linch can be excused.
13 THE COURT: Thank you, sir.
14 MR. DOUGLAS PARKS: He has been here a
15 day and a half, Judge.
16 THE COURT: Thank you.
17 MR. GREG DAVIS: The State will call,
18 Darin Routier.
19
20
21
22
23
24
25

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 394

1 Whereupon,
2
3 DARIN ROUTIER,
4
5 was called as a witness, for the State of Texas, having
6 been first duly sworn by the Court to speak the truth, the
7 whole truth, and nothing but the truth, testified in open
8 court, as follows:
9
10
11 DIRECT EXAMINATION
12
13 BY MR. GREG DAVIS:
14 Q. Please state your name.
15 A. Darin Eugene Routier.
16 Q. Are you the same Darin Routier who has
17 testified previously in this case; is that right?
18 A. Yes, sir.
19 Q. Mr. Routier, let me ask you, on June
20 the 14th of 1996, did you and the defendant, Darlie
21 Routier, go to your sons' graves?
22 A. Once in the morning and once at night.
23 Q. All right. So you were there during
24 the afternoon of June the 14th; is that correct?
25 A. Yes, sir.

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 395

1 Q. While you were there was there a camera
2 man there from KXAS, Channel 5?
3 A. In the evening there was.
4 Q. Do you remember also, during that
5 period of time, that same cameraman actually videotaping a
6 portion of what was happening out there at the grave site?
7 A. Yes, sir.
8 Q. Did you and your wife, the defendant in
9 this case, actually give a videotaped interview to Joe
10 Munoz, of Channel 5? Do you remember that?
11 A. Yes, it was a -- kind of a small
12 interview, yeah.
13 Q. Okay.
14 A. We did speak to him for a minute.
15 Q. Mr. Routier, if I showed you a
16 videotape of those proceedings, could you tell me whether
17 this videotape truly and accurately depicts what happened
18 out there on June 14th? If you would, please look at the
19 videotape I'm showing to you now, please, sir.
20
21 (Whereupon, the video
22 taped interview
23 was played in open
24 court, and the
25 proceedings are

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 396

1 a non verbatim
2 transcript, of the
3 video as follows:)
4
5 (Inaudible.)
6
7 DARLIE ROUTIER: "We can't let -- you
8 know --" (Inaudible.)
9 THE COMMENTATOR: "The flag, I mean,
10 why? What was it?"
11 DARIN ROUTIER: "Well, the significance
12 of the flag is that on Memorial Day we were down the
13 street, and we were all leaving to go home, we had had a
14 barbecue with the family and swimming in the back yard and
15 stuff over at her mom's house, and I went to the front to
16 load up the truck, I mean, I opened up the back hatch and
17 there was two American flags in there. And, I said,
18 'Damon, where did you get these flags?'
19 "And he said, 'I got them down the
20 street.'
21 "And I said, 'Well, I saw those flags
22 when we drove up.' I said, 'Those don't belong to you.'
23 "And he said, 'I know.'
24 "And I said, 'Well, then you can take
25 them back.'

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 397

1 "Well, he had walked about two doors
2 down instead of four, and he said -- you know, I told him,
3 you need to take those back, because, I said, 'The police
4 are going to get you. You cannot steal stuff out of
5 somebody's yard.'
6 "And he said, 'Well, Daddy, I just
7 wanted them for my clubhouse.'
8 "And I said, 'Well, I'll buy you some,
9 I'll get you some. We will get you some for your
10 clubhouse, but I want you to take those back, because
11 those people are going to miss them.'
12 "So, that is what he did, but he just
13 went about two doors down and just stuck one of them in
14 the ground, and then he laid the other one on the grass,
15 because he was lazy, just like any typical kid. And I was
16 watching him, and I pointed my finger at him, and he knew
17 that if he was going to satisfy me he would have to put
18 them back exactly the way they were. So, that was the
19 story on the flags."
20 THE COMMENTATOR: "They were good
21 kids."
22 DARIN ROUTIER: "They were good kids
23 and we tried to teach them right. We didn't teach them
24 anything that -- we didn't teach them anybody was bad,
25 they still believed in other things that we are taught as

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 398

1 kids."
2 DARLIE ROUTIER: "They believed that
3 everything was equal. (Inaudible.) They did not see the
4 world clearly as adults have to see it. They saw it as,
5 'Okay, I'm just like you and you are just like me.'
6 "And that is really the way they were."
7 DARIN ROUTIER: "They never looked --
8 (inaudible) but they would try --"
9 DARLIE ROUTIER: "They were giving,
10 they were very giving."
11 DARIN ROUTIER: "Right. When the
12 Rowlett Needy Children's Fund started and we went to the
13 house at Christmas time, they were willing to go home --
14 they wanted to go home and they wanted to take all their
15 old toys and they wanted to take any toy, I mean, you
16 know, plus we bought new toys that were going to take up
17 there to them, and they just wanted to do that. I mean,
18 they were just giving type people. I mean, they learned
19 that from us, but we saw it through them."
20 THE COMMENTATOR: "Your sweetest memory
21 of these boys."
22 DARLIE ROUTIER: "I have got a lot of
23 sweet memories. I could talk to you for days and days and
24 days. You would have to come and spend a -- come and move
25 in. But, um --"

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 399

1 DARIN ROUTIER: "How about the --"
2 DARLIE ROUTIER: "No, we can't tell
3 them that."
4 DARIN ROUTIER: "Well, what about the
5 videotape?"
6 DARLIE ROUTIER: "The 'Home Alone
7 House' was a sweet story."
8 DARIN ROUTIER: "Yeah."
9 DARLIE ROUTIER: "When we first bought
10 this house -- this is so sad, because -- I mean it's sad
11 but it's sweet, because it is just the way they were.
12 But, when we bought this house, and we were having it
13 built, the movie 'Home Alone' had come out. And, they
14 just loved that movie. They thought it was, you know,
15 just the all time movie. And so, they kept calling our
16 house the 'Home Alone House.' And they kept telling
17 everybody, 'This is our Home Alone House, This is our Home
18 Alone House.'
19 "And, they said, 'Mommy, when we get in
20 the Home Alone House, we want to take a sled and go down
21 the stairs like he did in the Home Alone House.'
22 "And I mean, I was saying, 'Oh, no, you
23 can't do that, you can't do that.'
24 "And you know what, if they were here
25 now, I would let them do it."

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 400

1 DARIN ROUTIER: "Well, they would, to
2 an extent, they would get in a pillow, and they would sit
3 and drive a pillow, with the soft part on their rear end,
4 and then they would go, bump, bump, bump, all the way down
5 the stairs, until they would get to the bottom.
6 "It wasn't straight, it was at an angle,
7 the staircase."
8 "And our house was not as big as the one
9 in 'Home Alone,' but that was how they would describe it,
10 because of the fact they would -- that is how they would
11 describe it, because of the fact that they -- I mean, they
12 were little when they moved into that house. I mean, that
13 was three years ago. And, you know, when you are four
14 years old, and they recollect things, and we recollect
15 things, it was just a couple of weeks ago that we had
16 pulled the video camera out, and I finally got it working
17 again, and we were watching the videotapes of when they
18 were that little, and Damon could hardly talk. And you
19 know, Courtney has been a big part of their lives too,
20 because there have experienced Christmases and
21 Thanksgivings together. And I mean, we did that with all
22 of our friends and all of our family. I mean, all of our
23 friends are our family."
24 "Because when you are -- a lot of times
25 you come from another place, and you come to Dallas, the

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 401

1 friends that you have around you are your family away from
2 your real family."
3 THE COMMENTATOR: "Let me ask you. Why
4 the balloons? Why all of this now?"
5 DARLIE ROUTIER: "Well, because, even
6 though we are sad because Devon and Damon aren't here, we
7 try to hang on to what we can, to get us through these
8 times."
9 "And, if you knew Devon and Damon, you
10 would know that they are up in heaven, and they are up
11 there having the biggest birthday party that we could ever
12 imagine. And they would not want us to be down here being
13 sad, even though our hearts are breaking, I know that
14 Devon and Damon would want us to be happy. They wouldn't
15 want us to be crying, and they wouldn't want us to be --
16 well, not to -- not to be happy. They would want us to
17 celebrate as if we were with them, because in a way they
18 are with us, because they will always be with us, no
19 matter what we are doing, no matter what we are thinking,
20 they will always be a part of all of us. And not just
21 Darin and I, but they have touched a lot of people."
22 THE COMMENTATOR: "What do you think
23 about the man who did this?"
24 DARIN ROUTIER: "We won't get into
25 that."

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 402

1 THE COMMENTATOR: "No, I mean what do
2 you feel? Your emotion. What do you feel when you think
3 about what happened?"
4 DARLIE ROUTIER: "We get very sad. We
5 cry a lot. We get sick. We get very angry. We get very
6 angry because this person is still out there, and he is
7 doing whatever he wants to do, and we are just like in a
8 time warp. It's like we are walking in Limbo. We don't
9 know whether we are coming or going, you know. And he is
10 free. He is free to do whatever he wants. But I know
11 that he is not going to be free for long, and I feel
12 that -- I feel the, you know, the support, and the hard
13 work that these detectives and policemen are putting into
14 this is incredible. It's just, it's just beyond the call.
15 I mean --"
16 DARIN ROUTIER: "They are using some
17 high tech stuff on this investigation. Stuff that I
18 wouldn't believe, and hadn't even seen in the movies.
19 But, they are taking, absolutely no -- they are sparing no
20 expense. I mean, they are doing the most and the best job
21 that they possibly can. And --"
22 DARLIE ROUTIER: "They will find him."
23 DARIN ROUTIER: "They are going to find
24 him."
25 DARLIE ROUTIER: "They are going to

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 403

1 find him. We are having prayer groups everywhere.
2 Everybody is praying. I said God's hot line must be --
3 you know must be swamped, because everybody everywhere is
4 praying, and we can feel it."
5 (Inaudible.)
6 THE COMMENTATOR: "What do you remember
7 from that night?"
8 DARIN ROUTIER: "Fear."
9 DARLIE ROUTIER: "Fear and pain.
10 "But you know, even when I was -- what
11 had happened to me, I didn't feel anything because I was
12 in shock. But, I wasn't thinking about me. All I was
13 thinking about was trying to save the babies. I mean,
14 Darin and I tried to save the babies, but it was too late.
15 But we tried. We tried, and we have to live with that
16 forever."
17 DARIN ROUTIER: "We have to live with
18 what we saw, what we saw in their eyes."
19 DARLIE ROUTIER: "Nobody, nobody can
20 ever imagine."
21 DARIN ROUTIER: "It happened so fast
22 that not anybody could have done anything about trying to
23 save them any faster than what I could. I mean, you just
24 keep going over it, and you, what if it, and what if I had
25 done this, and what if I had done this, but if you have

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 404

1 never lived in fear, then you will never know --"
2 DARLIE ROUTIER: "You never think of
3 those things."
4 (Inaudible.)
5 DARLIE ROUTIER: "You know, people --"
6 DARIN ROUTIER: "We understand anger,
7 but we didn't teach it."
8 DARLIE ROUTIER: "No. People,
9 unfortunately in our world, gossip is the biggest evil in
10 the world, and unfortunately there is nothing you can do
11 to stop it. And, we are not going to make an issue out of
12 this, because anybody that knows us, knows how we were,
13 how we lived. You know, they know the story, and we don't
14 have to explain ourselves to anybody."
15 DARIN ROUTIER: "If they don't know us,
16 then it doesn't matter. They can't do anything to us.
17 They can't damage us any worse than what we are."
18 THE COMMENTATOR: "Bottom line, what
19 would you want to say to the person who did this?"
20 DARIN ROUTIER: "Hopefully we can get
21 into that when we catch him."
22 DARLIE ROUTIER: "I think he is a
23 coward. I think he is a coward because he went after
24 two -- he went after something that was so innocent, they
25 couldn't fight back, and then he tried to turn to me, but

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 405

1 he had to go to them first, and to me, that is such a
2 cowardness."
3 DARIN ROUTIER: "What kind of animal
4 goes after a weak sheep, that is asleep, is completely
5 lifeless, and attacks the weakest person in the room
6 first, to be able to get off on whatever he was thinking
7 that he was going to accomplish. I mean, I kept hoping
8 and praying that this guy had stolen something out of my
9 house, that he picked me and my family because I had more
10 than some, or had more than this person. That way, I
11 could, in my heart think that well, living large is the
12 reason why we got targeted."
13 THE COMMENTATOR: "Now you don't know
14 why."
15 DARIN ROUTIER: "Now we don't know why.
16 Now we know that this is a sick individual that took
17 absolutely nothing from our house, but took the two most
18 important things, that were important to us, away from us.
19 That is the part we don't understand. That is the part
20 that we may never understand. (Inaudible.) But our goal
21 now in our lives is to live our lives the way that God
22 wants us to. So, that we can be with our boys again, and
23 they will still be five and they will still be seven, and
24 they will still be playing and fighting."
25 (END OF TAPE)

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 406

1
2 BY MR. GREG DAVIS:
3 Q. Mr. Routier, let me just ask you now,
4 does State's Exhibit No. 27 accurately depict what
5 occurred there on June the 14th?
6 A. Yes, sir.
7 Q. Okay.
8
9 MR. GREG DAVIS: Your Honor, at this
10 time, we will offer State's Exhibit No. 27.
11 MR. DOUGLAS PARKS: No objection for
12 the purposes of this hearing.
13 THE COURT: Received.
14
15 (Whereupon, the above
16 mentioned item was
17 received in evidence
18 for all purposes, after
19 which time, the
20 proceedings were
21 resumed as follows:)
22
23 MR. GREG DAVIS: No further questions.
24 MR. DOUGLAS PARKS: No questions.
25 THE COURT: All right.

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 407

1 MR. GREG DAVIS: The State will rest.
2 MR. DOUGLAS PARKS: We will call Jim
3 Cron.
4 MR. GREG DAVIS: The State will object
5 to that. May we approach the bench, please?
6 THE COURT: Sure.
7 MR. GREG DAVIS: Well, I'll make my
8 argument from here. I don't think that the law
9 contemplates that the defense at this time is entitled to
10 go into a full-fledged discovery hearing. I don't know if
11 the law requires you to allow them to put any evidence on
12 at this time.
13 The entire burden in this hearing is
14 on the State of Texas. I feel like the State of Texas has
15 met it's burden. If the defense has any right at all, I
16 believe, in this hearing, they have the right to put on
17 evidence that they believe to be exculpatory or
18 mitigating. That is not what is about to occur.
19 If you will inquire of Counsel, you
20 will find that Counsel has not talked with any of the
21 witnesses that they are about to attempt to call on this
22 hearing. They have no idea whether these people have
23 exculpatory or mitigating testimony to give. And what we
24 are about to do is, we're about to launch off, into a two
25 week deposition, and I would submit that is not what the

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 408

1 law contemplates.
2 MR. DOUGLAS PARKS: Well, in response,
3 Judge, I would make the same invitation that Mr. Davis
4 made to the defense just a few minutes ago. If he has got
5 some law that says that we're not entitled to that, then
6 he ought to trot it out for the Court.
7 MR. GREG DAVIS: I don't have to. You
8 see, the law says, and the case law very clearly says,
9 that the burden of proof is on the State of Texas.
10 MR. DOUGLAS PARKS: Well, the burden of
11 proof is on the State of Texas during the course of the
12 trial. It doesn't keep the defense from putting up
13 evidence, in order to try to persuade the fact-finder to a
14 different view.
15 THE COURT: Who is Mr. Cron?
16 MR. DOUGLAS PARKS: Mr. Cron is a
17 retired Dallas Deputy Sheriff who was called to the scene.
18 If you will recall, Charlie Linch indicated that he was
19 out there doing blood work and crime scene work.
20 MR. GREG DAVIS: Mr. Cron is one of my
21 witnesses. He is the witness that was called by Rowlett
22 to help in the crime scene search of that residence. In
23 no way is he a defense witness. If the defense were
24 really serious in trying to put on something, we would see
25 witnesses coming from the defense, but we're not.

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 409

1 THE COURT: Well, gentlemen, I'm about
2 to recess this, and I would appreciate Counsel meeting me
3 in chambers.
4 MR. GREG DAVIS: Yes, sir.
5 MR. DOUGLAS PARKS: Yes, sir.
6 THE COURT: We will talk about this
7 then in chambers. We will be in recess until about 2:30.
8
9
10 (Whereupon, a short
11 Recess was taken,
12 After which time,
13 The proceedings were
14 Resumed on the record,
15 In the presence and
16 Hearing of the defendant
17 And the defendant, as follows:)
18
19
20 THE COURT: All right. Let's go back
21 on the record in the Darlie Routier case.
22 Okay. We will resume F-96-39972 and
23 973. The defendant and her counsel, and the State's
24 attorney are present, the State has rested, what says the
25 defense?

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 410

1 MR. DOUGLAS PARKS: Your Honor, again
2 we would call Jim Cron as our first witness. The Court
3 having given an indication that the Court is not inclined
4 to allow the defense to call Jim Cron, I would then
5 suggest respectfully to the Court, that in the event we
6 were allowed to call Jim Cron, that he would testify that
7 he is a retired lieutenant from the Dallas Police -- the
8 Dallas Sheriff's department, that he has many years on the
9 job, and he is a trace evidence and forensic
10 scientist-type expert. That he was called to the scene of
11 the crime, on June the 6th, 1996 by someone in authority
12 in the Rowlett Police Department.
13 That as a result of that call, he went
14 to the scene. He did various investigatory tasks. I
15 believe that he would testify that he collected blood
16 samples, that he took photographs, and that he
17 investigated the scene thoroughly.
18 In cross examination, I believe that
19 the defense will be able to more clearly place the scene
20 of the crime before the Court, so that the Court could
21 better evaluate the credibility and the believability of
22 the State's witnesses on direct, with respect to,
23 particularly the blood and other trace evidence.
24 We believe that his testimony would be
25 both helpful to the Court, and very likely, depending

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 411

1 on -- because of the nature of this crime scene, very
2 likely be, to some extent at least, contrary to the
3 testimony of the State's witnesses on direct.
4 And, I would respectfully request the
5 Court to allow us to put Mr. Cron on.
6 THE COURT: Are you in a position of
7 suggesting how it might be contrary to earlier theories
8 advanced by statements?
9 MR. DOUGLAS PARKS: Well, no.
10 THE COURT: I'm not asking you to do it
11 with direct precision, but --
12 MR. DOUGLAS PARKS: I cannot tell the
13 Court that I can specifically say to you, what particular
14 evidence Mr. Cron would speak to, is contrary to what the
15 State's evidence has already been. I couldn't know that
16 without hearing his testimony.
17 THE COURT: And as I understand the
18 defense position is, that this particular witness and some
19 others, you have been unable to talk directly with, up to
20 this point.
21 MR. DOUGLAS PARKS: It is my
22 understanding, your Honor, that this particular witness,
23 along with the other witnesses about whom I will speak,
24 have either been instructed, or have indicated that they
25 will not talk to the defense, unless a representative of

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 412

1 the district attorney's office is present. Which we
2 consider to be a refusal to speak to us at all.
3 We don't follow the district attorney
4 around, and we wouldn't expect him to follow us around.
5 THE COURT: Well, would the State like
6 to be heard?
7 MR. GREG DAVIS: Yes, sir. If I may
8 respond to the last point. The State has made an offer to
9 the defense, on more than one occasion, to make
10 paramedics, police officers and the like available to the
11 defense for interviews, with a stipulation that some
12 employee of the district attorney's office be present. On
13 each occasion where we have made that offer, that has been
14 refused, and turned down by the defense.
15 I would like to, either directly ask
16 Counsel, or have the Court ask Counsel, what the basis for
17 his belief is that retired Lieutenant Cron took
18 photographs, or took blood samples from that residence,
19 since he has not spoken with Lieutenant Cron.
20 I fail to see the basis for that
21 assertion, and either through the Court's questioning, or
22 my own, I would like to hear what the basis of that belief
23 is. Because I don't think that assertion -- I don't see
24 how that assertion can be made by Counsel at this point.
25 He is not in any position to make that assertion, in good

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 413

1 faith, and --
2 MR. DOUGLAS PARKS: Well, I listened to
3 Charlie Linch testify.
4 MR. GREG DAVIS: Well, I listened to
5 him also, and I didn't hear Charlie Linch say anything
6 about Cron taking photographs or samples. But I think
7 again, just to sum this up, I have heard nothing from
8 Counsel that would indicate that this witness has any
9 exculpatory or mitigating testimony to give. This is just
10 speculation or guess-work on the part of Counsel. And I
11 would suggest to the Court that what we would be engaging
12 in is just sheer discovery, a fishing expedition, and for
13 that reason, I would ask that the Court deny this request.
14 THE COURT: Anything else?
15 MR. DOUGLAS PARKS: Not before the
16 Court's ruling.
17 THE COURT: Okay. The defense request
18 to -- Cron, how do you spell that?
19 MR. DOUGLAS PARKS: Jim Cron, C-R-O-N,
20 your Honor.
21 THE COURT: Mr. Cron, that request is
22 denied.
23 MR. DOUGLAS PARKS: Your Honor, may we
24 call Jim Cron to the stand, so that we may make a record,
25 and ask him those questions that we would have asked him,

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 414

1 for the purposes of the hearing to make our record?
2 THE COURT: Well, that wouldn't -- what
3 purpose is that going to serve? If the fact-finder isn't
4 going to be able to consider it?
5 MR. DOUGLAS PARKS: So that the Court
6 of Appeals can determine whether or not we should have
7 been allowed, your Honor, to hear his testimony.
8 THE COURT: In the event it develops
9 that there is something that is beneficial to the defense?
10 MR. DOUGLAS PARKS: Yes, sir.
11 THE COURT: Okay. I'm not out right
12 denying your opportunity to do that, I'm just not going to
13 grant that at this time. If you will remind me, we will
14 make sure your record is developed fully. Okay?
15 MR. DOUGLAS PARKS: Yes, sir.
16 THE COURT: Who else do you want to
17 call?
18 MR. DOUGLAS PARKS: Please the Court,
19 we will now call Sergeant Matt Walling, and we would
20 respectfully suggest to the Court that in the event that
21 Sergeant Walling is called to testify, that he would
22 testify that he is a sergeant with the Rowlett Police
23 Department, that he was the second person on the scene.
24 That he entered the house with Officer Waddell. That he
25 viewed the scene, as he saw it, and proceeded with Officer

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 415

1 Waddell to the back of the house, in search of an
2 intruder.
3 We would hope to develop through
4 Sergeant Walling, since we have not been able to up to
5 this point in time, who was responsible for the
6 preservation of the scene, and I would respectfully
7 suggest to the Court that Sergeant Walling could tell us
8 that.
9 Essentially, the same argument with
10 respect to Jim Cron. This is a person who was probably
11 the second person on the scene, has not been called by the
12 State, even though this is a motion upon which they have
13 the burden of proof.
14 We believe that if Sergeant Walling
15 were to testify, that his testimony would indicate
16 matters contradicting the testimony of Officer Waddell,
17 and/or other State's witnesses, that would impact the
18 Court's view of the credibility of the State's case, and
19 would make less likely, the Court's belief that there has
20 been sufficient evidence to hold this defendant without
21 bond. And, we respectfully ask the Court to allow us to
22 call Sergeant Walling.
23 MR. GREG DAVIS: Well, Your Honor, I
24 would have the same argument as I made with respect to
25 Lieutenant Cron, that is again, I know of no basis, how

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 416

1 Counsel can state that Sergeant Walling would in any way
2 contradict or impeach any of the testimony given by
3 Officer Waddell in this case. I don't think that
4 assertion can be made in good faith to this Court, based
5 on what Counsel knows concerning the activities or the
6 prospective testimony of Sergeant Walling.
7 And again, this is going to be a
8 discovery expedition. And, I would also say that, just as
9 an overview here, you know the State gets to make the
10 decision as to how it meets its burden of proof. I may do
11 that through one witness or one hundred witnesses. So,
12 the fact that I don't call Sergeant Walling has no bearing
13 in this case, with regards to what I should have done, or
14 what he would like for me to do, what Counsel would like
15 for me to do. Again, the same argument as with Cron.
16 THE COURT: At this point, do you have
17 anything that you can suggest to me, that will indicate
18 some area of contradiction other than presumptively, any
19 two people observing the same event would tell it with at
20 least some difference.
21 MR. DOUGLAS PARKS: Just my life
22 experience, Judge.
23 THE COURT: Okay.
24 MR. DOUGLAS PARKS: You know that --
25 THE COURT: All right. Well, your

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 417

1 request to call Sergeant Walling of the Rowlett Police
2 Department is declined.
3 MR. DOUGLAS PARKS: And we would make
4 the same request with regard to Sergeant Walling, calling
5 him for the purposes of making our bill.
6 THE COURT: That request is denied at
7 this point, but you will be given the opportunity to
8 perfect a bill.
9 MR. DOUGLAS PARKS: Your Honor, the
10 defense would call Detective Chris Frosch. And we would
11 respectfully suggest to the Court, that if Detective
12 Frosch were to testify, that he would testify that he is
13 the partner of Detective Jimmy Patterson, to whom this
14 case was assigned. That he worked both with, and in
15 conjunction with Detective Patterson in interviewing
16 witnesses, in interviewing perhaps this defendant, and
17 certainly her husband.
18 We believe that if Detective Frosch
19 were to testify that he would testify to items
20 contradictory to or casting doubt upon some elements of
21 the State's case, that would make it likely that this
22 Court would -- or at least likely that the Court would
23 view the testimony of the State's witnesses, that it has
24 already heard, in a light less credible than that in the
25 present state of the case.

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 418

1 Detective Frosch was active in the
2 investigation of this case, and we believe that his
3 testimony is necessary to a full and complete hearing of
4 this matter, and we would respectfully request the ability
5 to call him.
6 MR. GREG DAVIS: Well, again, I don't
7 know how Counsel can make a statement that he believes
8 Frosch would testify to items contrary to other witnesses
9 presented by the State. Other than -- I don't know what
10 he is basing that on, other than life experience again.
11 So, again we have the same argument that we have
12 previously made.
13 THE COURT: Your request to call
14 Sergeant Frosch?
15 MR. DOUGLAS PARKS: Detective Frosch.
16 F-R-O-S-C-H.
17 THE COURT: Okay. That request is
18 declined. I will give you the opportunity to develop the
19 bill.
20 MR. DOUGLAS PARKS: Your Honor, we
21 would next call paramedic, Brian Koshack, and I am not
22 sure of the spelling, I believe it is K-O-S-H-A-C-K.
23 The defense believes that if paramedic
24 Koshack were called to testify, that he would testify that
25 he was on one of the two responding ambulances that came

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 419

1 to the scene on Eagle, on June 6th, 1996.
2 He could testify as to the activities
3 of he and other paramedics, with respect to the treatment
4 attempted on the children, where in the house they went,
5 what part of the scene, if any, they stomped through, and
6 essentially place the crime scene itself in a better
7 perspective for the Court to be able to determine, through
8 their eyes, as almost the first people on the scene, what
9 the scene was originally and before police officers and
10 other people came through the scene, since this is a case
11 relying entirely upon circumstantial evidence.
12 The scene, as early as possible, being
13 developed would seem to me to be necessary for the Court's
14 full consideration of the issue before the Court today,
15 and we would like to call him, and in order to move this
16 along, somewhat, your Honor, with respect to that and the
17 paramedics.
18 We would ask not only to call Brian
19 Koshack, but to call Captain Dennis Vrana, V-R-A-N-A; Jack
20 Kolbye, C-O-L-B-Y (sic); Rick Coleman, C-O-L-E-M-A-N; Mike
21 Youngblood and Todd Higgins.
22 All of whom essentially could provide
23 the same sort of testimony that I have just described,
24 with respect to paramedic Brian Koshack.
25 MR. GREG DAVIS: And, again, I would

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 420

1 reurge the same argument that I have previously made, with
2 the addition: I believe the record or the Court's file
3 will reflect that previous to this date, that Counsel has
4 had the opportunity to take the oral depositions of two
5 paramedics employed by Rowlett Fire Department, Eric
6 Zimmerman, and Larry Byford.
7 With that, I'll rest.
8 THE COURT: The request to call
9 Koshack, Kolbye, the other two or three that you
10 mentioned, unless there is some showing that can be made,
11 such as I requested on Cron and Walling, the ruling is,
12 that you may not call those witnesses at this time.
13 MR. DOUGLAS PARKS: Yes, sir.
14 THE COURT: You will be given an
15 opportunity to develop your bill.
16 MR. DOUGLAS PARKS: Yes, sir. Thank
17 you, your Honor.
18 Finally, your Honor, we would call
19 Sergeant David Nabors of the Rowlett Police Department,
20 and, Officer Jeff Craig of the Richardson Police
21 Department, both of whom are crime scene persons.
22 I believe that Sergeant David Nabors
23 was in charge of the crime scene for the Rowlett Police
24 Department, and that he or someone else in authority, with
25 the Rowlett Police Department called Jeff Craig, of the

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 421

1 Richardson Police Department, to come to the scene.
2 We believe that their testimony would
3 be very like the testimony of Lieutenant Jim Cron, and we
4 respectfully request the Court allow us to put that
5 testimony on.
6 MR. GREG DAVIS: Again, I would reurge
7 the same argument to the Court.
8 THE COURT: Other than whatever the
9 record presently shows about the participation of any --
10 of either Nabors or Craig, do you have anything specific
11 that you can advance?
12 MR. DOUGLAS PARKS: No, your Honor.
13 THE COURT: The request to call Nabors
14 and Craig is denied at this hearing.
15 Counsel, the State has offered
16 apparently to give the defense access to these witnesses
17 if they are present.
18 Do you want me to recess this and let
19 you take them up? You can have an opportunity. It may or
20 may not develop some of the matters that I have indicated
21 that I would be prepared to hear, if I can know in advance
22 that there is some real likelihood of it being developed.
23 MR. DOUGLAS PARKS: Yes, sir, if the
24 Court is offering us a recess at this time to interview
25 some of these people, we would take that up.

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 422

1 THE COURT: Well, I thought I heard Mr.
2 Davis for the State indicating that you have had that --
3 that there has been an outstanding offer.
4 MR. DOUGLAS PARKS: Yes, sir, and we
5 would be glad to avail ourselves of it.
6 THE COURT: Do you think that it might
7 be appropriate for another short recess, and let you
8 lawyers talk, and see if you can work out any kind of
9 schedule? It strikes me that is not very valid to start a
10 hearing and not try to get it completed.
11 MR. GREG DAVIS: Well, just so I am
12 clear, is this -- Counsel's proffer to interview these
13 people, in lieu of taking oral depositions?
14 MR. DOUGLAS PARKS: No, sir.
15 MR. GREG DAVIS: Well, I know, the
16 offer made --
17 THE COURT: Well, excuse me, Counsel.
18 MR. GREG DAVIS: Yes, sir.
19 THE COURT: I take it that the defense
20 position then is, unless it is a formal deposition, that
21 you do not want to take advantage of the opportunity to
22 discuss whatever these witnesses might know, or whatever
23 they might tell you about, as long as there was a State's
24 representative present?
25 MR. DOUGLAS PARKS: No, what I'm

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 423

1 saying, Judge, what I will say, Judge, to the Court, and
2 to Mr. Davis is, that I will be glad to talk to these
3 people, find out what they know, and after having done
4 that, it may be that I will not take their oral
5 deposition, but I will not commit to not taking their
6 deposition, sight unseen.
7 MR. GREG DAVIS: Well, the State's
8 offer has always been the same as I'll state it now.
9 We will offer these people for
10 interviews by defense counsel, in lieu of oral
11 depositions. That is how this whole matter started.
12 When I made the offer, that was not
13 good enough, so that oral depositions were started in this
14 case, and I'm not going to be put in the position of
15 having them interview the people, and then, turning
16 around, and taking a half a day of my time, and the
17 State's time to then take their oral depositions.
18 THE COURT: Well, the State's position
19 was that, a non-depositional interview is in lieu of the
20 deposition; is that correct?
21 MR. GREG DAVIS: Yes, sir, that is
22 true.
23 THE COURT: I didn't understand --
24 MR. GREG DAVIS: Yes, sir, that is the
25 condition.

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 424

1 MR. DOUGLAS PARKS: Judge, there is a
2 civil --
3 THE COURT: So, I gather that his offer
4 is under terms unacceptable to the defense?
5 MR. DOUGLAS PARKS: Yes, sir.
6 THE COURT: So it looks like that
7 it's --
8 MR. DOUGLAS PARKS: Well, there is a
9 civil case that is going on at the same time, and I cannot
10 afford to waive my right to take depositions in that case.
11 THE COURT: Well, this hearing is not
12 concerned with the civil cases.
13 MR. DOUGLAS PARKS: I understand that,
14 Judge.
15 THE COURT: Well, the defense request
16 to call persons that were not called by the State, that
17 apparently were at or near the crime scene at relevant
18 times, at this point in time, this has been declined by
19 the Court.
20 You got anybody else you want to call?
21 MR. DOUGLAS PARKS: No, sir, that
22 completes our list of witnesses at this time.
23 THE COURT: So the defense rests,
24 subject to the bill?
25 MR. DOUGLAS PARKS: Your Honor, prior

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 425

1 to resting, subject to the bill, we would offer into
2 evidence the -- or at least -- well, ask that the Court
3 take judicial notice of, and offer into evidence, for the
4 purposes of this record, the two -- both responses that I
5 have previously given to the Court in chambers, and the
6 two writ jackets, from the previous bond reduction
7 hearings.
8 I believe those have numbers beginning
9 with WX, and I can't recall the exact numbers.
10 THE COURT: I understand.
11 MR. DOUGLAS PARKS: Yes, sir.
12 THE COURT: All right. Is that this?
13 MR. DOUGLAS PARKS: Yes, sir.
14 THE COURT: All right.
15 MR. DOUGLAS PARKS: Would you mark
16 these, please?
17
18 (Whereupon, the above
19 mentioned item was
20 marked for
21 identification only
22 as Defendant's Exhibits No.
23 14 & 15 after which time the
24 proceedings were
25 resumed on the record

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 426

1 in open court, as
2 follows:)
3
4 MR. DOUGLAS PARKS: Your Honor, we
5 would offer at this time, what has been marked as
6 Defendant's Exhibits 14 and 15, and these are the files in
7 Cause numbers WX-96-00281-J and WX-96-00282-J, the jackets
8 and their contents.
9 MR. GREG DAVIS: No objection.
10 THE COURT: Received.
11
12 (Whereupon, the above
13 mentioned items were
14 received in evidence
15 for all purposes, after
16 which time, the
17 proceedings were
18 resumed as follows:)
19
20 MR. DOUGLAS PARKS: May I have just a
21 moment, your Honor?
22 THE COURT: Yes, sir.
23 MR. DOUGLAS PARKS: Your Honor, we
24 would lastly recall to the Court, objections and argument
25 made to the Court with respect to the jurisdiction of the

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 427

1 Court to render a judgment in the case. And for the
2 purposes of the record, it was essentially the position of
3 the defense, that since Judge Tolle has heard this matter
4 on a motion to reduce bond, that that particular matter
5 has been appealed, and is presently on appeal, in the
6 Court of Appeals, for the Fifth Judicial District here in
7 Dallas, and that that case is set for submission on
8 September 5th, 1996, and that this Court does not have
9 jurisdiction to act on the State's motion today, and we
10 would ask the Court to rule on that particular issue.
11 THE COURT: As I understand it, you are
12 asking that given the Trial Court actions before in regard
13 to a bond reduction hearing, and its present appeal that
14 is pending.
15 MR. DOUGLAS PARKS: Yes, sir.
16 THE COURT: That because of those
17 facts, that this Court does not have jurisdiction to
18 entertain the State's motion, which this hearing is all
19 about, is whether bail is to be denied outright or not,
20 for the defendant awaiting trial?
21 MR. DOUGLAS PARKS: Yes, sir.
22 THE COURT: The defendant's motion or
23 request that this Court determine that it has no
24 jurisdiction to entertain the application or the motion of
25 the State to hold the defendant without bail, that motion

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 428

1 is refused. That this Court, by inference, obviously, as
2 I am ruling in this Court, does have the authority to
3 entertain the motion that the State can file the motion
4 and seek a hearing on this.
5 MR. DOUGLAS PARKS: That being the
6 Court's ruling, your Honor, we would respectfully request
7 the Court to recess this hearing, until such time as the
8 defense can bring an appeal to the Court of Appeals, with
9 respect to the Court's just rendered decision regarding
10 jurisdiction.
11 THE COURT: Do you have any authority?
12 MR. DOUGLAS PARKS: No, sir.
13 THE COURT: Well, the defense motion to
14 abate any further proceeding on the State's motion, that
15 relief is denied. I assume that if you have no witnesses,
16 we are about to hear some argument.
17 MR. DOUGLAS PARKS: We have nothing
18 further, your Honor.
19 THE COURT: All right. The State has
20 the burden. Do you want to open the argument?
21 MR. GREG DAVIS: Well, if we could,
22 before we argue this matter, I would like for the record
23 to reflect that there are several people in the gallery
24 available here today. Among them, being the defendant's
25 mother, Darlie Kee, her sister, Dana Stahl, and the

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 429

1 defendant's husband, Darin Routier, is still available at
2 this time, and what appear to be a number of people, on
3 the second row of this gallery, and I would like the
4 record to reflect that, at this time, as we begin the
5 arguments.
6 And, your Honor, I am going to keep my
7 argument very short. I know that you were listening to
8 the evidence, and I'm not going to rehash it for you.
9 I am just simply going to say that the
10 State of Texas has met it's burden of proof in this case.
11 Through clear and strong evidence, that not only would a
12 jury find this defendant guilty of capital murder, as we
13 have charged in these two indictments, but also that they
14 would answer special issues in such a way, that this Court
15 would be required by law to impose a sentence of death on
16 this defendant.
17 And we have met that burden of proof,
18 and for that reason, I would ask that this Court
19 respectfully -- that it hold this defendant without bond
20 pending the trial of this matter.
21 Thank you.
22 THE COURT: Thank you.
23 MR. DOUGLAS PARKS: Please the Court.
24 Your Honor, for approximately 25 years
25 now, I have been telling juries in voir dire that the

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 430

1 Constitutional right that we as citizens have to a
2 presumption of innocence exists, if it exists at all, in
3 the hearts and in the minds of the citizens who sit as
4 jurors in cases of this kind. And with due respect to the
5 Court, to judges who are called upon to make decisions
6 such as your Honor is called upon to make this afternoon.
7 Our Constitution, both our United
8 States Constitution and our Texas Constitution tell us we
9 have that right. But until and unless juries actually
10 afford us that right, we don't have it.
11 The same can be said of judges in the
12 position that your Honor is, this afternoon.
13 This is an attack on the presumption of
14 innocence. It is, to my way of thinking, a fairly cynical
15 attack on the presumption of innocence. Because the State
16 has had ample opportunity to develop a record to hold this
17 defendant without bond. It has declined to do so.
18 Until such time as it is apparent that
19 the bond now set by this Court, which is set at an amount
20 20 times higher than any bond has ever been approved in a
21 capital murder case by the Court of Criminal appeals,
22 still does not satisfy them. Fearing, I suppose, that a
23 citizen accused of this offense might actually post bond,
24 they have brought this motion. Just ahead of the Court of
25 Appeals hearing, and hopefully the decision to reduce the

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 431

1 bond in this case, as it should be reduced.
2 They have not, I respectfully suggest
3 to the Court, brought proof evident to this Court. What
4 they have brought to the Court, is a great deal of
5 speculation, an incomplete case, their own blood work is
6 not done. We don't know what that will show.
7 They are asking this Court to overlook
8 a Constitutional right basic to the jurisprudence of this
9 country, on speculation, incompleteness, could's and
10 maybe's. Because that is what we heard from their
11 witnesses. It could have happened that way. It could
12 have happened that way.
13 Their own medical examiner would not
14 even answer a direct question.
15 Because you see, your Honor, whether or
16 not her wounds are self-inflicted are crucial in this
17 case, it's obvious, because if she didn't cut herself,
18 someone else did.
19 And the only thing that their medical
20 examiner could say was, "She could have done this." And
21 when I asked her would she tell us, in reasonable, medical
22 probability whether you believe that happened or not, she
23 flat refused to answer the question. And, that is the
24 quality of the State's case here today.
25 Proof evident? I don't think so. I

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 432

1 respectfully suggest to the Court, that if this had been a
2 trial before the court, it would have been the Court's
3 duty and responsibility to direct a verdict of not guilty
4 in this case.
5 We, respectfully ask the Court to deny
6 the motion before it this afternoon.
7 THE COURT: Thank you, Counsel.
8 MR. GREG DAVIS: Well, again, you know
9 my position is very clear.
10 What we have shown to you is this:
11 That this individual down here, Darlie Routier, very
12 savagely killed her two children, during the early morning
13 hours of June the 6th, 1996. She butchered these two
14 children, with very deep, repeated stab wounds. We have
15 shown you very thoroughly through the presentation of the
16 physical evidence in this case, that the three different
17 stories that she told to the authorities concerning this
18 event, none of them are consistent with the physical
19 evidence that is found out there that day.
20 The amount of blood in that den, that
21 that couch is inconsistent with her version, where she
22 said that she was attacked on the couch.
23 The amount of blood and the type of
24 blood found near the kitchen bar and the wine rack, are
25 inconsistent with this struggle with this unnamed intruder

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 433

1 over there.
2 And then we see a scene there in the
3 kitchen, where we see no velocity or low velocity blood
4 drops throughout that entire kitchen, and by her own story
5 given on June the 8th, she is running through that kitchen
6 area three separate times. Yet we don't have any blood
7 indicating that that occurred.
8 The only footprints that we have are
9 leading from that sink, that has been washed and near the
10 counter top, that has been wiped off clean. Leading back
11 from that kitchen sink, and back to that den.
12 Darin Routier told you that he didn't
13 kill those two children. There were no other adults in
14 that house. He never saw an intruder, heard an intruder,
15 saw a car or heard a car.
16 We know also, from what Charlie Linch
17 has told you, that the knife that is still in that butcher
18 block, has a particle on it which microscopically matches
19 the particle on the window screen. And, I would say to
20 you that indicates to me this is very calculated killing.
21 That this individual right over here, Darlie Routier, went
22 outside before these two boys were killed, and cut that
23 screen, attempted to make it look like an intruder had
24 come in through that window, and then came back in, and
25 savagely killed Devon Routier, and savagely killed Damon

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 434

1 Routier, and then very methodically and slowly, walked
2 through that kitchen, to the utility room, back to that
3 sink, cut her throat, stabbed herself, bled, and then
4 cleaned up the mess, and very neatly laid that knife up
5 there on the counter top, so that she could tell the
6 officer, "Oops, I picked it up. Golly, I probably messed
7 up the prints, but here is the knife."
8 What you have got from there on is an
9 individual who has shown a total lack of remorse. That
10 videotape is a disgusting scene, where you see almost a
11 grotesque scene on June the 14th, where this person has
12 not only shown no remorse, but is able, eight days after
13 butchering her own two children, to sit there and laugh
14 and joke with a newsman.
15 It's just like Darin Routier said,
16 "Whoever did this is an animal who slaughtered two sheep,
17 two little lambs." That is exactly what we have shown,
18 your Honor.
19 Thank you.
20 THE COURT: Thank you, Counsel.
21 Do either of you have any authority you
22 want me to look at, in regard to the standard?
23 MR. DOUGLAS PARKS: Your Honor, we
24 would ask the Court to consider the standard as set out in
25 Beck_versus_State, in item 2.____ ______ _____

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 435

1 THE COURT: Excuse me? In item 2 here?
2 MR. DOUGLAS PARKS: Yes, sir.
3 THE COURT: Beck, B-E-C-K, 648, 2nd, at____
4 7.
5 MR. DOUGLAS PARKS: Yes, sir. We would
6 also like for the Court to consider Westbrook_versus _________ ______
7 State, an indication of the presumption, a strong_____
8 presumption in favor of bail.
9 THE COURT: Well, Westbrook being 753 _________
10 Southwest 2nd, 158.
11 MR. DOUGLAS PARKS: Yes, sir.
12 THE COURT: Does the State have any
13 authorities?
14 MR. GREG DAVIS: No, sir, we're very
15 happy with those two cases that have been submitted to
16 you.
17 THE COURT: Okay. The Court is going
18 to retire to consider the evidence here. There are
19 obviously some documentary evidence that has been
20 presented, and some exhibits that were presented, that
21 have been in the hands of the lawyers or the witnesses,
22 and not the fact-finder, and I'm going review that. It's
23 3:28, I'm not certain as to how much time might be
24 involved. So therefore, Counsel, do you have any pleasure
25 you want to --

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 436

1 MR. DOUGLAS PARKS: We will be here.
2 MR. GREG DAVIS: If the Court would
3 like to --
4 THE COURT: Do you want to set a time
5 for it, perhaps tomorrow, or do you want to see if it
6 comes out today, or what is your pleasure, Counsel?
7 MR. GREG DAVIS: Well, I don't have a
8 problem coming back tomorrow morning at 9:30, if that is
9 convenient with Counsel.
10 THE COURT: Are you gentlemen -- will
11 one of you be in the building then here?
12 MR. WAYNE HUFF: We will, your Honor,
13 our only problem would be the availability of our
14 witnesses, for a Bill if need be.
15 THE COURT: All right. Why don't I --
16 I suggest that -- well, why don't I talk to Counsel in
17 chambers to see about possible timing or a way to try and
18 look at doing the Bill.
19 MR. DOUGLAS PARKS: Yes, sir.
20 THE COURT: Which might be a little
21 easier to do there. Okay. Anyway, obviously as soon as
22 the Court has made its decision, that decision will be
23 made public, and the Counsel and the defendant will be
24 informed.
25

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 437

1 (Whereupon, a short
2 Recess was taken,
3 After which time,
4 The proceedings were
5 Resumed on the record,
6 In the presence and
7 Hearing of the defendant
8 And the jury, as follows:)
9
10 THE COURT: We are going to come back
11 tomorrow for my ruling at 9:30 in the morning.
12 Mr. Davis, are you going to get your
13 witnesses so we can swear them all in?
14 MR. GREG DAVIS: Yes, sir. If we could
15 go on the record just briefly. During the break that we
16 have just taken, I have talked with Mr. Parks concerning
17 the witnesses that he wants for the proof hearing and they
18 will be sworn in, in just a moment. I do want an
19 understanding with the Court that we certainly don't want
20 to violate any orders of the Court, that even though these
21 people well be sworn in as witnesses, that I can talk with
22 them during this period of time.
23 THE COURT: Sure.
24 MR. GREG DAVIS: And, that I can talk
25 with them as a group, if necessary, with the understanding

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 438

1 that I am still continuing to investigate the case.
2 And I know technically, the Rule
3 prohibits these people from sitting in while I interview a
4 particular person, but I have talked with Mr. Parks, and
5 let me just ask you, do you have an objection with me
6 doing that, because I do need to do that, in order to
7 conduct my investigation. And again, I don't want to be
8 in violation of anything, but I do want that understood
9 that I do need to do that.
10 THE COURT: Well, as far as I'm
11 concerned, I don't care. The evidence on this motion has
12 been concluded. So, therefore --
13 MR. GREG DAVIS: Okay. That is fine.
14 THE COURT: Okay. So, in that sense,
15 the Rule is not applicable. The way it is, it's just like
16 when the verdict comes in.
17 MR. GREG DAVIS: Okay.
18 THE COURT: Okay. Gentlemen, if you
19 are to be a witness in this matter, I need for you to
20 raise your right hand, please.
21
22 (Whereupon, the witnesses
23 Were duly sworn by the
24 Court, to speak the truth,
25 the whole truth and

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 439

1 nothing but the truth,
2 after which, the
3 proceedings were
4 resumed as follows:)
5
6 THE COURT: Do you and each of you
7 solemnly swear or affirm that the testimony you are about
8 to give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing
9 but the truth?
10 THE WITNESSEES: I do.
11 THE COURT: Okay. You can put your
12 hands down a minute. In just a second I'm going to get
13 your names, but, right now, the present schedule would be
14 to take -- or your testimony to occur at 1:30, Thursday,
15 September the 19th. Now, I understand all of you have
16 been subpoenaed, or else have a connection with the
17 State's attorney. If that hour changes, because that
18 would be an afternoon session, and it is possible we might
19 not get through with all of you on that day, and I would
20 assume that we will try to work it where you are not up
21 here if there is no chance of you being reached. Okay?
22 Further, the actual place for your
23 testimony to be given, is probably a room different than
24 this one. So you might want to find out, maybe Ms.
25 Wallace can be in touch with you, or one of the district

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 440

1 attorneys, to know which courtroom physically it might
2 occur in. It might be this one, it might be a different
3 one.
4 Okay. Now, I need to get your names.
5 Pardon me. Starting with the gentleman on the right:
6 THE WITNESS: Rick Coleman.
7 THE WITNESS: Dennis Vrana.
8 THE WITNESS: Michael Youngblood.
9 THE WITNESS: Brian Koschak.
10 THE WITNESS: David Nabors.
11 THE WITNESS: Todd Higgins.
12 THE WITNESS: Jack Kolbye.
13 THE WITNESS: James Cron.
14 THE WITNESS: Jeff Craig.
15 MR. GREG LONG: And, your Honor, Chris
16 Frosch came in after you had already sworn the other
17 witnesses, and he is here with them.
18
19 (Whereupon, the witness
20 was duly sworn by the
21 Court, to speak the truth,
22 the whole truth and
23 nothing but the truth,
24 after which, the
25 proceedings were

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 441

1 resumed as follows:)
2
3 THE COURT: Do you solemnly swear or
4 affirm that the testimony you are about to give in the
5 proceeding will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing
6 but the truth?
7 THE WITNESS: Yes, your Honor.
8 THE COURT: Okay. Do you want to tell
9 me your name, although I just heard it?
10 THE WITNESS: It's Chris Frosch,
11 F-R-O-S-C-H.
12 THE COURT: Okay. And I'm not sure
13 that you heard, the testimony from you would be expected
14 to begin on an afternoon session, at 1:30, Thursday,
15 September the 19th. Okay?
16 Because you have been sworn in now, it
17 is not necessary for new subpoenas to issue for you. You
18 need to be in attendance of the Court, I assume, through
19 Ms. Wallace or Mr. Davis, that somebody will let you know
20 if that time frame changes. Because we might have to take
21 you in platoons, like half of you that afternoon, and then
22 another afternoon the balance of you. But I can excuse
23 you at this time, unless the State needs to talk to you
24 about something, but as far as I am concerned you don't
25 need to remain.

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 442

1 Now, in connection with -- in order
2 to -- because I recognize I have got some very capable
3 lawyers, and there is some audience, the ruling by the
4 Court will occur in this matter on the State's motion at
5 9:30 tomorrow morning.
6 We will be in recess in this matter
7 until 9:30 tomorrow.
8
9
10 (These proceedings are continued to the
11 next volume in this cause.)
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 443

1 CERTIFICATION PAGE
2 THE STATE OF TEXAS )
3 THE COUNTY OF DALLAS )
4 I, Sandra M. Halsey, Official Court Reporter of
5 Criminal District Court Number 3, of Dallas County, Texas,
6 do hereby certify that I reported in Stenograph notes the
7 foregoing proceedings, and that they have been edited by
8 me, or under my direction and the foregoing transcript
9 contains a full, true, complete and accurate transcript of
10 the proceedings held in this matter, to the best of my
11 knowledge.
12 I further certify that this transcript of the
13 proceedings truly and correctly reflects the exhibits, if
14 any, offered by the respective parties.
15 SUBSCRIBED AND SWORN TO, this _____ day of
16 ___________, 1996.
17 __________________________________
18 Sandra M. Day Halsey, CSR
19 Official Court Reporter
20 Criminal District Court No. 3
21 Dallas County, Texas
22 Phone, (214) 653-5923
23
24 Cert. No. 308
25 Exp 12-31-96

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 444

1 STATE OF TEXAS )
2 COUNTY OF DALLAS)
3
4 JUDGES CERTIFICATE
5
6
7
8 The above and foregoing transcript, as certified by
9 the Official Court Reporter, having been presented to me,
10 has been examined and is approved as a true and correct
11 transcript of the proceedings had in the foregoing styled
12 cause, and aforementioned cause number of this case.
13
14
15
16
17
18
19 __________________________________
20 PAUL BANNER, JUDGE PRESIDING
21 Criminal District Court Number 3
22 Dallas County, Texas
23
24
25

Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter 445